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summitclaret

That's my point. The EU won't budge because it thinks we will change our mind.

summitclaret

The conservative party does NOT want no deal. It does however want the best deal possible and won't get that if it lets go of the main weapon it has left before the EU starts being reasonable. The Uk establishment is aiding and abetting the EU ans has been from day 1. The government recently won a v...

summitclaret

And some them said this has to be final referendum as well, including blair and his henceman campbell. Unbelievable.

summitclaret

That is exactly what May is warning about. You hold a second vote, democracy is effectively dead for many people. If the Second one did give a remain result, how does that over rule the first. It’s then a draw, you need a third to get a result. The thing that really gets me is the MP’s TrueType bel...

summitclaret

AV lost. Do you want to re run that as well?

summitclaret

I think it would have to be a reality before that could be nailed down. But I can't see it being passed unless there is a "remain" option. Again though, we have to try to get a deal first. That should not be as hard as it appears at the moment, and realistically all we have to do is take the "No De...

summitclaret

Guich wrote:Just a thought...

Why is the suggested second referendum being called a 'people's vote' by campaigners?

Doesn't that suggest the 52 per cent who voted to leave aren't people? Kind of sums up the level of debate I suppose.

Because the 52% are zombies. The good news is we can vote forever.

summitclaret

Lancasterclaret wrote:Which version of "Out" did his constituents vote for?

Presumably one where we control own borders, laws, money and have the ability to trade freely. Just like everyone did.

summitclaret

They want.a proper brexit. However, the political declaration is vague enough to mean that Norway and Canada etc could eventually be the way forward on trade. So let's just do as I suggested above and move forwards.

Personally I'd want a brexiteer next tory leader to ensure we leave properly.

summitclaret

No chance. It's not a proper leave.

summitclaret

The current remain dominated Cabinet will never agree anything better the fudge that is May's deal, apart from maybe without an unlimited backstop. The DUP will never vote for anything that does not address the latter. So even if May's current deal is approved she won't be in power. The only way for...

summitclaret

I'm not though am I Caballo? And I'm pretty sure most of the remainers on here are aware that a 2nd ref should only be the last resort (though I do appreciate that there could be rows about what and where does it constitute a "last resort") And the ones advocating just abandoning Article 50 are def...

summitclaret

Lancasterclaret wrote:This is the, er, "coup" bill

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/10 ... 1486519300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So if this gets agreed the EU will just wait until 26 feb and know that is it. No need for them to budge. Now that would be the HOC interfering in the negotiations.

summitclaret

442 will result in a hammering. Pope surely has to play as does Vydra.

summitclaret

Because one poll that is an outlier to other polls totally ends a debate. Well done, you just demonstrated ignorance about how polling works. Achievement unlocked. BTW, the same poll says we also think voting to leave the EU was the wrong decision. So i guess if we're just going off the results of ...

summitclaret

Remains must be gutted with tonight's Sky data poll. 2nd referendum my a***.

summitclaret

As I said above, the tories will unite and are playing a massive poker game with the EU.

summitclaret

She planned for a soft brexit from day 1 and there is only the DUP stopping her. Norway is not brexit in any meaningful way. Its a meaningless fudge. We might as well remain as go for that. Not that they want us. There is some two-faced rubbish being spouted by remainers and labour about red lines a...

summitclaret

There is no excuse and never will be about the pathetic window last summer. Especially as we know we dont spend in jan.

summitclaret

Hammered. Only joking. No one will do it again.

summitclaret

Cardiff are key. Beat them here and we should be okay. However its a long long way from safety yet. Crucially we have been hard to beat since Liverpool, apart from the boxing day farce. Burnley are back.

summitclaret

FCBurnley wrote:His arm was offside ? Do they have specsavers in Vegas ?

To be fair Vegas is a long way from watford.

summitclaret

He is much taller than Ben Mee and a very good prospect. Him and Dwight make the future bright.

summitclaret

Well you might think she is mad but the answer is to sort the backstop. Norway is not leaving and NO leaver thinks it is. Better to remain and regroup than such shite and have another go with 2 years' notice for a no deal. Norway won't agree anyway. End of option. Its a joke. No control of borders. ...

summitclaret

Your making less and less sense. I deliberately left out an option for ever closer union to expecting an accusation of being unfair. Obviously there is a third question for my part 3 for fairness. Point being after all this hassle, I want closure so we can start sorting the real issues like social ...

summitclaret

I like that proposal, however would the 2nd question be open to all who vote, or just those who vote Leave? I'm not sure where I am going with this, but perhaps if you're asking a Remainer what type of leave they would prefer, I am guessing of the 2 options it would be "wibble"... I guess I would o...

summitclaret

martin_p wrote:But the May deal has been voted down in parliament by our democratically elected representatives. Putting that to a second vote would be anti-democratic!

I am talking about whatever deal there is at the time of any vote not the current 1. I agree it cant be the current deal.

summitclaret

Think we just have to get a deal. Only questions I can see on a 2nd ref would be "leave with no deal" or "remain" and no one could honestly say that would help heal the country. You seem a fair-minded person normally, but that is so unfair as it is biased in favour of remain. Plenty of remainers ar...

summitclaret

Whatever else happens remain would have to both win and beat 17.4m to be able to have a proper victory imo.

summitclaret

Surely it's obvious that Farage would split the Tory party and Tory vote, in the way that Corbyn has split the left. The most likely result: a strong Centre alliance of Remain "one nation conservatives" , liberals, greens and a large number of moderate remain Labour supporters. Farage could actuall...

summitclaret

LC. You could be right in normal times. However its not and brexit trumps party politics.

summitclaret

I wonder if he's trying to edge his way into the Tory party. I've speculated before that he might start a new party and try to do a Macron by leading a new party to government, but what if his plan is simply to move into power more directly by becoming a Tory? You could be right. Either way it is g...

summitclaret

Ok to clarify. I don't think they will care enough to vote as most people normally don't in euro elections. Also the more i think about rhe threat of a new euro sceptic party the more i think it is a brilliant move by Farage. Tye mere thought of it will cause panic in tory and labour and it may just...

summitclaret

Don't agree. Remainers won't care.

summitclaret

Meant to add. A euro sceptic party would smash an euro elections this may if A 50 is extended.

summitclaret

Farage is back as just seen on Sky News. He cleverly positioned himself well away from UK IP and clearly close to the tory right. Whether you agree with him or he is by far the best advocate for leave. He knows the EU better than anyone. I can't help thinking that we would be on the verge of leaving...

summitclaret

The people i have the most respect for are those that voted remain that agree that we should leave. True democrats. Well done you guys.

summitclaret

If i was May i would be tempted to goad corbyn, cable, snp etc to put forward a motion to revoke A50. Labour would not dare. That would stop no deal.

The proposition would be lost. Then go back to the EU and call their bluff on no deal.

summitclaret

Well he is a decent player and a loan may be worth it. He would have a lot to prove.

summitclaret

Biggles. That's obviously the way forward. The EU won't want to as they want total control of the trade discussions. The DUP have been saying for weeks sort the backstop and its a deal. The is no other way forward in the time left and May needs a way forward that keeps the DUP in the c and s agreeme...

summitclaret

Lancasterclaret wrote:Looking forward to a pensioner led civil war it has to be said.

Anyone know what the armor penetration effect of a thrown zimmer frame is?

It wont be like that. As the baby boomers apparently have all the money they will pay young thugs to sort it. Whichever side the army pick will win. Smiley

summitclaret

The plan hatched by the establishment and the EU us coming to fruition. They cant be alliwed to thwart the will of the people. The only way to get out of the EU in any meaningful way is the current deal with no backstop. Rhe EU won't let us. Tells me all i need to know.

summitclaret

Gove just made s strong pitch for next tory leader in closing the debate.

summitclaret

403 leave constituencies out of 650. Says it all. Many mps are putting party and personal interest before country. Shame on them.

summitclaret

This is very very different to normal due to there being a referendum. This is why labour are **** scared to come off the fence.

summitclaret

The Leavers who want a deal are the reasonable ones. The problem is you're shouted down by the rabid-brexiteers who have tried to hijack the 52-48 result to claim that there's a mandate for a no deal Brexit, and that any kind of deal is going against the will of the people. There are not many who r...

summitclaret

It should not be off the table until we have a deal that the HOC can agree. Just to be clear I want a deal.

summitclaret

Course they can. They just want to have the upperrhand in the trade discussions.

summitclaret

The last 2.5 years have proven nothing except that there is no available path in between. There clearly is. The current deal without a false backstop or the ability to get out of it. As we will see tonight if it gets to amendment 4, it will be closest to getting through. If the 12 or so tory remain...

summitclaret

If there is a second referendum, would it not be because sufficient facts were not available at the outset of the first one? Would it not be similar to carrying out Jury duty, and my initial vote was GUILTY, and then (a month later) new evidence had been established in the case which meant I had to...

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