Southgate

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ten bellies
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Southgate

Post by ten bellies » Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:32 pm

How many times does that FA schill get to **** up before the dull little boy is potted.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Southgate

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:39 pm

Maybe wait to see how he finishes in this tournament before carrying on your tantrum :lol:

He's been the best england manager in my lifetime, taken the team further than any of the other, more lauded ones

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Re: Southgate

Post by Swizzlestick » Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:41 pm

How is getting to the latter stages of major tournaments a **** up? Which is far better than his recent predecessors have done.

Tonight was a wash out but we’re still practically through to the knockout stages.

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Re: Southgate

Post by dsr » Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:47 am

It's irritating that he is able to get the team so far into tournaments without seeming to want to try and win. The whole game seems to be to defend and nick a goal (I don't know what went wrong against Iran!) which is eccentric because our attack is pretty good and the defence is pretty poor. How does playing to our weaknesses seem to be so effective?

It would be interesting to see a higher risk version of the passing game, like what we're used to at Turf Moor. More long balls when the midfield is packed, wider wingers, making riskier passes through the midfield rather than the safe pass across the back that keeps possession and goes nowhere.

The fear I had about playing possession football at Burnley was that possession can become and end in itself, rather than a means to an end. Keep the ball, yes; but risk losing it in the attempt to score goals, also yes.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:15 am

dsr wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:47 am
It's irritating that he is able to get the team so far into tournaments without seeming to want to try and win. The whole game seems to be to defend and nick a goal (I don't know what went wrong against Iran!) which is eccentric because our attack is pretty good and the defence is pretty poor. How does playing to our weaknesses seem to be so effective?
Euro's 21 Knockout Phase

Last 16
England 2 - 0 Germany

QF
England 4 - 0 Ukraine

Its international football and no team goes out and steam rolls everyone but for irritating he only gets the team so far read got the team consistently further than any other England manager bar Alf Ramsey and for defend and nick a goal see we beat Germany and Ukraine by a clear margin in the latter stages of the last major tournament.

Neither Bobby Robson or Terry Venables in 90 or 96 respectively managed to win a single knockout game within 90 mins and they are considered to be our great England performances of modern times
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Re: Southgate

Post by Shaggy » Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:48 am

Shitgate has been lucky with easy paths in said tournaments.

There’s no excuses for not beating the USA. They are crap.

The footballs dull like the man himself. He seems more interested in virtue signalling than anything else.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Gp8419 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:17 am

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:48 am
Shitgate has been lucky with easy paths in said tournaments.

There’s no excuses for not beating the USA. They are crap.

The footballs dull like the man himself. He seems more interested in virtue signalling than anything else.
You can’t argue with his record,it’s knockout football I’m not having it was easy draws that’s why he got to the final etc.we beat Denmark and Germany two good teams last time.we can’t ask for much more in terms of our records last two tournaments it’s just getting over that line. He’s just a boring bugger that’s all,we wasn’t interested in committing to win that match last night-he thought get the draw and we are 99% going through.I again disagree with you USA are not crap they have never been easy to beat,but they look better than ever last night. I’m not being over critical because in the end we can rest a few now in last march. I will judge England more in the ko stages I think we have a great chance still.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:32 am

Wrong team wrong tactics v USA.We will beat Wales whoever plays though.Ramsay and Bale were embarrassing against Iran and both need to retire gracefully

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Re: Southgate

Post by NottsClaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:17 am

Being a successful or terrible England manager generally just depends when the fixture computer gives you the first really good side.
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Re: Southgate

Post by dougcollins » Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:17 am

We 'nullified their threat'. So who were we playing, Spain, France, Brazil?

No - it was USA.

What happened to OUR threat?
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Re: Southgate

Post by AfloatinClaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:52 am

One good game against Iran and the team/management are world beaters and a shoe in to win the World Cup. A less impressive display against the Septics and it's woe-is-me time and they all need replacing. Maybe Gareth should have followed VK's Sheffield/Blackburn example and chosen to play poorly in the first of the two games 😅 Of course if we thrash The Taffs on Tuesday the bed wetters will all settle down again and spend a couple of days telling us how they knew all along that we were going to win the World Cup... Until the next sub-par result

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Re: Southgate

Post by IanMcL » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:01 am

Southgate is the luckiest England manager for years!

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Re: Southgate

Post by Benson » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:18 am

dougcollins wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:17 am
We 'nullified their threat'. So who were we playing, Spain, France, Brazil?

No - it was USA.

What happened to OUR threat?
He nullified that as well.
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Re: Southgate

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:49 am

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:48 am
Shitgate has been lucky with easy paths in said tournaments.

There’s no excuses for not beating the USA. They are crap.

The footballs dull like the man himself. He seems more interested in virtue signalling than anything else.
The USA are ranked 16th according to FIFA, just 5 places behind Germany.
A lot of their players are plying their trade in European leagues.

This isn't the USA of 20yrs ago.

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Re: Southgate

Post by tiger76 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:52 am

It's a strange one with Southgate, judging him purely on results it's hard to deny he's been successful, however often the football gas been attritional to say the least.

Last night wasn't great, but yet again we've made it through the group stage with room to spare, which is rare for England at major tournaments..

Southgate will ultimately be judged by how deep England go in this WC, yes we've reached a World Cup Final and a European Championship Final in the past 2 tournaments, but many feel that flatters England and Gareth Southgate due to the quality of opponents we've beaten in both those comps.

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Re: Southgate

Post by taio » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:59 am

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:52 am
It's a strange one with Southgate, judging him purely on results it's hard to deny he's been successful, however often the football gas been attritional to say the least.

Last night wasn't great, but yet again we've made it through the group stage with room to spare, which is rare for England at major tournaments..

Southgate will ultimately be judged by how deep England go in this WC, yes we've reached a World Cup Final and a European Championship Final in the past 2 tournaments, but many feel that flatters England and Gareth Southgate due to the quality of opponents we've beaten in both those comps.
I wish he had reached a world cup final.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Shaggy » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:12 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:49 am
The USA are ranked 16th according to FIFA, just 5 places behind Germany.
A lot of their players are plying their trade in European leagues.

This isn't the USA of 20yrs ago.
The rankings are wishy washy at best.

The USA are not and never have been a decent footballing side.

Shitgate still sets up risk free against a side which on its best day is a notch below mediocre. The guys and absolute weapon. Just cannot wait until someone rips England to shreds so he gets mega backlash.

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Re: Southgate

Post by RVclaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:18 am

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:12 am
The rankings are wishy washy at best.

The USA are not and never have been a decent footballing side.

Shitgate still sets up risk free against a side which on its best day is a notch below mediocre. The guys and absolute weapon. Just cannot wait until someone rips England to shreds so he gets mega backlash.
USA are a tidy side. Energetic and organised. Players from decent sides in Europe. But they shouldn’t be finding it so easy to play through England like they did and limit England to zero good chances.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Neil » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:20 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:17 am
Being a successful or terrible England manager generally just depends when the fixture computer gives you the first really good side.
It depends more on the pool of players available when you are appointed. I'm a little bit torn given his tournament record but he's certainly been blessed with a better crop of players than many of his predecessors.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Targetman » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:28 am

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:12 am
The rankings are wishy washy at best.

The USA are not and never have been a decent footballing side.

Shitgate still sets up risk free against a side which on its best day is a notch below mediocre. The guys and absolute weapon. Just cannot wait until someone rips England to shreds so he gets mega backlash.
You forgot to mention Sean Dyche in your post! :D

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Re: Southgate

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:29 am

Shaggy wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:12 am
The rankings are wishy washy at best.

The USA are not and never have been a decent footballing side.

Shitgate still sets up risk free against a side which on its best day is a notch below mediocre. The guys and absolute weapon. Just cannot wait until someone rips England to shreds so he gets mega backlash.
Wishy washy or not, the USA aren't the terrible side that you're painting them as.

They've got some very good players, appeared to be set up quite well and honestly I think they wanted a result last night more than England did.
They also showed England more respect by not assuming they just had to turn up to win, because that's how it felt England had approached the game.

Southgate is doing ok, I think it's you that's the issue

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Re: Southgate

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:34 am

Shaggy is just a very bitter and resentful individual who seems to get immense satisfaction from the failures of others. This probably says something about him. See his obsession with Lewis Hamilton for further proof.
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Re: Southgate

Post by Tricky Trevor » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:54 am

The comms last night summed it up with 5 minutes to go. A draw would see England through if they don't lose 4-0 to Wales. GS would have known this after the Wales defeat to Iran and the coward has played for the draw.
His first thought every game is defence. So much attacking talent available to him and he gets nothing out of them.
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Re: Southgate

Post by Spijed » Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:03 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:29 am
Wishy washy or not, the USA aren't the terrible side that you're painting them as.

They've got some very good players, appeared to be set up quite well and honestly I think they wanted a result last night more than England did.
They also showed England more respect by not assuming they just had to turn up to win, because that's how it felt England had approached the game.

Southgate is doing ok, I think it's you that's the issue
But you know the rankings are a complete joke when Wales are ranked as high as they are.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Stayingup » Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:07 am

Gp8419 wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:17 am
You can’t argue with his record,it’s knockout football I’m not having it was easy draws that’s why he got to the final etc.we beat Denmark and Germany two good teams last time.we can’t ask for much more in terms of our records last two tournaments it’s just getting over that line. He’s just a boring bugger that’s all,we wasn’t interested in committing to win that match last night-he thought get the draw and we are 99% going through.I again disagree with you USA are not crap they have never been easy to beat,but they look better than ever last night. I’m not being over critical because in the end we can rest a few now in last march. I will judge England more in the ko stages I think we have a great chance still.
Yes the results did speak for themselves. But we had a good few advantages like every game a home game and the two teams of Denmark and now Germany who were not world beaters. And Southgate's substitutions in the Euro final probably lost it for us.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Swizzlestick » Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:17 am

Stayingup wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:07 am
now Germany who were not world beaters.
Nah sorry, this is where credibility goes out the window. You can’t just write off a win against Germany, one of the powerhouses of world football, a team we have perennially struggled against, especially in major tournaments, like that.

While Southgate’s subs in the final maybe didn’t help, I think he’s perfectly at rights to expect Marcus Rashford, in particular, to score a penalty. We were a couple of kicks away from winning a major trophy. I know some of you can’t cope with that, but it’s the truth.

Last night was poor, but we’re in the knockouts (pretty much) let’s just see how we get on before crying about him.

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Re: Southgate

Post by dougcollins » Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:21 am

Targetman wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:28 am
You forgot to mention Sean Dyche in your post! :D
Both Dyche and Southgate have said 'We try to win every game'. This is what you may call being economical with the truth, as playing not to lose is not the same thing.

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Re: Southgate

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:40 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:03 am
But you know the rankings are a complete joke when Wales are ranked as high as they are.
Wales have been steadily improving.
If you really want to dig out how teams are ranked Belgium were number 1 despite winning the square root of naff all.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Chobulous » Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:49 am

IanMcL wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:01 am
Southgate is the luckiest England manager for years!
You’re quite correct
Lucky he’s not Scottish. Imagine being saddled with that lot.

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Re: Southgate

Post by MACCA » Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:06 pm

Gary a "coach" with far superior players at your disposal than last nights opposition, yet you failed to land a glove on them.
You were our smarted tactically.... AGAIN.

You've a lack of passion and a hard word coupled with your smoothing over and acceptance of dire and boring displays doesn't ignite any passion in the players.

I only imagine the boring tactics and set up he deploys reflect his team talks. I'm not sure you have what it takes to fire up a team.

He lost us that final against Italy, if Mancini was our manager in that final we would have been European champions now.

Any results seem inspite of him, not because of him
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Re: Southgate

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:46 pm

it’s clear to anyone that watches modern day football regularly that Southgate is tactically inept. As someone else has mentioned, our achievements are in spite of him.

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Re: Southgate

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:47 pm

MACCA wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:06 pm
Gary a "coach" with far superior players at your disposal than last nights opposition, yet you failed to land a glove on them.
You were our smarted tactically.... AGAIN.

You've a lack of passion and a hard word coupled with your smoothing over and acceptance of dire and boring displays doesn't ignite any passion in the players.

I only imagine the boring tactics and set up he deploys reflect his team talks. I'm not sure you have what it takes to fire up a team.

He lost us that final against Italy, if Mancini was our manager in that final we would have been European champions now.

Any results seem inspite of him, not because of him
Interesting you mention his ability (or lack of) to motivate a team.

I'm not for one minute claiming to be one of UTC's many body language expert, but the shots in the tunnel before the second half didn't appear to show a team pumped up for a big half of football.

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Re: Southgate

Post by AlargeClaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:49 pm

I’m no GS fan , but he does the business and we’re through to another last 16 . Sure the QF is an absolute minimum requirement but , history will treat his reign as hugely successful.

That GS is an FA yes man / woke warrior or whatever he gets labelled , I’ve found him highly professional in all aspect which is surely what it’s about .
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Re: Southgate

Post by Ampth7 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:09 pm

No doubting Southgate is a classy individual and highly professional.
I’m just not convinced by his ability to change games via his mid game decisions, his negative don’t lose mentality or his so called loyalty to players who have been awful all season but played well 2 years ago.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Stayingup » Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:14 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:17 am
Nah sorry, this is where credibility goes out the window. You can’t just write off a win against Germany, one of the powerhouses of world football, a team we have perennially struggled against, especially in major tournaments, like that.

While Southgate’s subs in the final maybe didn’t help, I think he’s perfectly at rights to expect Marcus Rashford, in particular, to score a penalty. We were a couple of kicks away from winning a major trophy. I know some of you can’t cope with that, but it’s the truth.

Last night was poor, but we’re in the knockouts (pretty much) let’s just see how we get on before crying about him.
Germany are not what they were and were not what they were in that game at Wembley.

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Re: Southgate

Post by claret2018 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:19 pm

The England squad he has worked with is arguably the worst it’s been in 20 years. He’s done amazingly with the pool of players he has to choose from.

Anyone who thinks he isn’t a brilliant England manager is absolutely deluded.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Murger » Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:26 pm

claret2018 wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:19 pm
The England squad he has worked with is arguably the worst it’s been in 20 years. He’s done amazingly with the pool of players he has to choose from.

Anyone who thinks he isn’t a brilliant England manager is absolutely deluded.
Worst pool of players in the past 20 years? :lol: :lol:

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Re: Southgate

Post by Swizzlestick » Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:37 pm

Is that too far off? How many world class players in this England squad? Kane, maybe? Previously we’ve had Terry, Ferdinand, Ash Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Rooney…

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Re: Southgate

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:01 pm

I think Southgate was lucky to get Middlesbrough, never mind his jobs since. For me a league one level manager who got incredibly lucky.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Swizzlestick » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:13 pm

Some luck to somehow luckily stumble through to the semi final and final of successive major tournaments. He should play the lottery with that kind of luck.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Spijed » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:21 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:13 pm
Some luck to somehow luckily stumble through to the semi final and final of successive major tournaments. He should play the lottery with that kind of luck.
OGS got Man U. to finish in second place in the Prem and also to the Europa League final in the same season yet would you ever want him as our manager?

He was still considered out of his depth.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:29 pm

Utd finishing 2nd and reaching a Europa League final is a not a standard of performance above what they are used to and expect and over the last 30 years would be considered average at best.

England reaching a World Cup semi-final and Euro's final is definitely above what our country has usually achieved and Southgate's achievement should be considered against other England performances and not some stupid notion about OGS that someone likes to obsess about

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Re: Southgate

Post by Swizzlestick » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:34 pm

Spijed wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:21 pm
OGS got Man U. to finish in second place in the Prem and also to the Europa League final in the same season yet would you ever want him as our manager?

He was still considered out of his depth.
Not sure what this has to do with anything tbh but United are expected to be challenging for titles and trophies. Are we expected to reach beyond the QF stage of tournaments? Considering so called world class managers like Eriksson and Capello couldn’t do it with arguably better squads.

Honestly some of these arguments…yes, I question some of Southgate’s decisions and last night was a borefest, but the manoeuvres some of you lot are performing to play down his record are quite something.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Spijed » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:41 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:34 pm
Not sure what this has to do with anything tbh but United are expected to be challenging for titles and trophies. Are we expected to reach beyond the QF stage of tournaments? Considering so called world class managers like Eriksson and Capello couldn’t do it with arguably better squads.

Honestly some of these arguments…yes, I question some of Southgate’s decisions and last night was a borefest, but the manoeuvres some of you lot are performing to play down his record are quite something.
I'd suggest we should be challenging on a regular basis when you look at the money available to the F.A., grass roots football, St. Georges Park etc.

Why do the other big European nations, namely Spain, France, Italy & Germany regularly contest and win finals.

Between them those four nations have won 21 major finals (World Cup & Euro's) compared to our solitary World Cup win.

Italy may have failed to qualify for these finals but you can bet they'll be back as a major force within the next few years.

The question is, why, until now have we failed miserably.

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Re: Southgate

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:43 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:13 pm
Some luck to somehow luckily stumble through to the semi final and final of successive major tournaments. He should play the lottery with that kind of luck.
He doesn’t need to, that’s how lucky he’s been. The last 2 tournaments saw England’s most talented players coming through as England reaped the rewards of youth investment… for me he under achieved and England’s best chance went with him. I’d say the current squad is below that of either those squads and four or five current opposition. The assumption Wales will roll over is as misplaced as hose who expected the USA would. If England turn up and win the hyperbole will start again, and will be just as misplaced.

Rileybobs
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Re: Southgate

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:45 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:54 am
The comms last night summed it up with 5 minutes to go. A draw would see England through if they don't lose 4-0 to Wales. GS would have known this after the Wales defeat to Iran and the coward has played for the draw.
I’m sorry, but why is it cowardly to play for a draw if a draw is all we need? Imagine had we gone hell for leather for a late winner and conceded on the break, teeing up an unnecessarily perilous game against Wales.

Southgate is a pragmatist, in much the same way Dyche is. And like Dyche it is not always the most pleasing on the eye, or what the fans want to see, but results show that it leads to overachievement.

I doubt Southgate’s wife would even claim he’s a tactical genius, his shortcomings are clear to see - as are his strengths. What is quite tragic is the large number of people on here willing the national team to fail because they don’t like him and are desperate to be proven right, having been proven wrong over the last two tournaments. A lot of people would prefer to say ‘I told you so’ than enjoy the satisfaction of the national team doing well. Like I say, pretty tragic, and a sad way to live your lives.

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Re: Southgate

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:47 pm

Oh, and all this guff about Southgate having the most talented group of players since whenever is total fiction. Look through the starting lineup and compare it with England teams of the past couple of decades.

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Re: Southgate

Post by fatboy47 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:55 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:01 pm
I think Southgate was lucky to get Middlesbrough, never mind his jobs since. For me a league one level manager who got incredibly lucky.

This... Totally.

Given the way he's blagged and ragged his way to relative success (on paper) it makes me wonder what we could have achieved with a proper manager and not this insipid horse-toothed yes man.

But the numpties will be singing their usual "this could be our year" nonsense again if we beat the mighty Wales.

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Re: Southgate

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:57 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:45 pm
I’m sorry, but why is it cowardly to play for a draw if a draw is all we need? Imagine had we gone hell for leather for a late winner and conceded on the break, teeing up an unnecessarily perilous game against Wales.

Southgate is a pragmatist, in much the same way Dyche is. And like Dyche it is not always the most pleasing on the eye, or what the fans want to see, but results show that it leads to overachievement.

I doubt Southgate’s wife would even claim he’s a tactical genius, his shortcomings are clear to see - as are his strengths. What is quite tragic is the large number of people on here willing the national team to fail because they don’t like him and are desperate to be proven right, having been proven wrong over the last two tournaments. A lot of people would prefer to say ‘I told you so’ than enjoy the satisfaction of the national team doing well. Like I say, pretty tragic, and a sad way to live your lives.
So anyone who is honest and who don’t agree are sad and tragic? Wow you must be a joy in meetings. I am not aware of anyone wishing England to fail.
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Re: Southgate

Post by Swizzlestick » Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:58 pm

Spijed wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:41 pm
I'd suggest we should be challenging on a regular basis when you look at the money available to the F.A., grass roots football, St. Georges Park etc.

Why do the other big European nations, namely Spain, France, Italy & Germany regularly contest and win finals.

Between them those four nations have won 21 major finals (World Cup & Euro's) compared to our solitary World Cup win.

Italy may have failed to qualify for these finals but you can bet they'll be back as a major force within the next few years.

The question is, why, until now have we failed miserably.
I dunno - mentality, crap on penalties, big players not turning up, etc etc. Unsure why you’re laying at this Southgate’s door when he took us closer to a major trophy than anyone since Alf Ramsey. Two penalties away no less. Why didn’t so-called better managers with better squads get us past the QFs?

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