Mr Dyche sorry but you are out of your depth

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:04 pm

JimmyRobbo wrote:So, we've been in pretty much the highest position we've been in all my life....and this thread emerges.

Afraid so - hard to believe

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:25 pm

From what I have seen this season SD is certainly not out of his depth.
We have had some good performances and a couple of bad.
Away from home we need to play & defend boringly but pick up points. We haven't got the player's to blitz other teams away from home.
At home its different, we can be more entertaining and adventurous and go out to win games.

Enjoy the wins but stick with SD and the players when we lose as he can see the pitfalls as well as the fans.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:48 pm

It seems to be one extreme or the other on here. The highest position we've ever had ( not true) so be grateful and we've only had a couple of poor performances ( not true) versus Dyche must go as he is so far out of his depth ( ridiculous).
There is a right to question things when we have scored one goal from open play away from home and not looked a threat in any of them without being criticised.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:49 pm

Sorry none from open play

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:52 pm

Don't usually do abuse so please consider this as valid comment:

KRBFC = insufficiently experienced and insufficiently intellectually gifted.

Devils_Advocate + does what it says on the tin.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:59 pm

I really don't think anyone can say we were lucky last season. You can be lucky now and again, but not for 23 consecutive games. IMO SD isn't out of his depth, but some of the squad are. They are being asked to step up to a much higher standard and some just cannot do it, no matter how much and how hard they try. At home we can paper over the cracks (at present) but away we are exposed over and over again. SD has proved he is an excellent manager, but whilst the club will not pay ridiculous money or indeed ridiculous wages for these so called better players who may or may not actually enhance the team, we will always struggle to compete. And I for one can live with that, frustrating though it is, because to seriously try to compete by chucking daft money at it may well mean we're the next Bolton and that doesn't bear thinking about.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:05 pm

Dyche out of his depth?
Possibly, but the club as a whole is still struggling to get on par with the EPL in general. We don't have a 25 man EPL quality squad yet, are just bringing our training facilities up to scratch.
It's happening, we've come miles in a relatively short time, I think we need patience and a degree of faith in what the board is doing.
However, to believe that there is no-one out there who could replace SD is ridiculous.

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:50 pm

Anyone who genuinely believes that we had a better manager than Mr Dyche in their lifetime is well into their nineties.

Or of course misguided.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:54 pm

levraiclaret wrote:Anyone who genuinely believes that we had a better manager than Mr Dyche in their lifetime is well into their nineties.

Or of course misguided.

Potts was pretty good at it.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:55 pm

BurnleySYS wrote:HEATON
NEW KEANE MEE NEW
NEW NEW DEFOUR NEW
GRAY VOKES (Along with another new striker)

Also keep Tarkowski.

Get rid of all the rest its harsh but true that is what is needed for us to be able to compete at this level.

Heaton
"Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew,
Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub Defour
Gray Vokes

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:22 pm

I thought Pugh was a winger?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:26 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I thought Pugh was a winger?

And Cuthburt is crap!

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:31 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Potts was pretty good at it.

Potts started with a much better squad don't you think?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:39 pm

Surely Jimmy Mullen was better than Dyche? I mean he started with a far weaker squad and took us up two divisions

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:40 pm

boatshed bill wrote:And Cuthburt is crap!

Disagree, Cuthburt was on fire against Camberwick

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:56 pm

levraiclaret wrote:Potts started with a much better squad don't you think?

Very likely, but he did take us into Europe!

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:08 pm

Barney McGrew can't do a full 90 minutes. 65 at best.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:22 pm

"Anyone who genuinely believes that we had a better manager than Mr Dyche in their lifetime is well into their nineties."

Please tell me that is not a serious post.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:40 pm

The way I see it there are in essence two divisions in one - we have Premier League away, Premier League at home, Championship away, Championship at home. Each one is a step up in difficulty.

I think Dyche has cracked the last three, with great signs that at home we are competitive against everyone.

Premier League away though is his big remaining obstacle - I don't think it is the personnel alone, I think tactically he struggles to influence the games, but is progressing, and will figure it out in time.

Out of his depth though - that is just daft exaggeration.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:30 pm

We'll done to the OP.

People do love to react in large numbers to extreme views.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:45 pm

[quote="levraiclaret"]Anyone who genuinely believes that we had a better manager than Mr Dyche in their lifetime is well into their nineties.

You are not misguided. We are lucky to have Sean Dyche at the helm.

Are we good enough for this league? Just.

It will be a sad a day when SD moves on. I just hope he's not going to see his Mammy in the New Year.

Burnley Football Club may be "Out of our depth" but Sean Dyche is not and he is the way forward... end of

UTC !!!

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:22 pm

Last season's promotion was won by very fine margins, just two injury time headers the other side of the post and we'd be 200 million quid less of a club than we are now. Remember that prize, it means we at least have a chance of yo-yo-ing between the leagues. I got the feeling that last season was our only chance, the last chance even, for a club of our stature to compete in these upper echelons of football.

We've beaten Liverpool and Everton and more or less matched the two Manchester clubs, who field sets of internationals that have more muscle on paper than all but a few countries, if any.

Remember when we beat Liverpool? For more than a few that is a memory for life, that would be enough in itself.

Dyche is still very young and inexperienced but I get the feeling he will learn more, I don't think he's reached his full potential. Don't forget where he's taken us in these past few years.

Even if Burnley lost every away match 5-0 it's still a victory for Burnley.

Having said that, how about the somebody create a VR of Turf Moor for the players to wear just before they play away? That digital help might just do the trick, or perhaps some aromatherapy, some Turf Moor smells etc.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:10 am

I'm happy with him learning his trade and making mistakes just where he is.

As Burnley manager.

Sean Dyche- the only Burnley manager to get our club promoted to the top tier.

TWICE

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:28 am

Pstotto wrote:Last season's promotion was won by very fine margins, just two injury time headers the other side of the post and we'd be 200 million quid less of a club than we are now.

Not correct. We finished 4 points ahead of both Middlesbrough and Brighton and with a better goal difference than both. If we'd lost 2 points (assuming it's Keane's equalisers v Boro and Brighton that you're on about) and Boro and Brighton had gained two each, we'd have all been level on 91 and we'd have had the best goal difference.

Obviously if you could pick three vital goals to have chalked off, ie. 7% of the season where you change the result, you could get us down into third place (still with a record or near-record tally for third, incidentally) - but then, if you have to change the results of three matches to get us to be the unluckiest club ever to miss out on promotion, then you're not talking about fine margins, are you? You're talking about large margins.

California Colner · Post by **California Colner** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:01 am

I don't think Dyche is out of his depth, I would say he is doing exceptionally well will with the players he has available,
Let's ask the question of which premier team would our players be first selection in there team?
We have maybe four players that are premier league standard, until we have money to burn Burnley are always going to struggle. We are premier league 2016 / 2017 let's enjoy what we have and stop pointing fingers Mr Dyche has done wonders for Burnley football club! Just look at our training facilities and that is due to out of your depth Mr Dyche?
Would you like to go back to the Orient days

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:25 am

levraiclaret wrote:Anyone who genuinely believes that we had a better manager than Mr Dyche in their lifetime is well into their nineties.

Or of course misguided.

Howe is a far better manager than Dyche. He did first time what Dyche hasn't done, kept a side in the PL.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:29 am

Oh and Howe didn't resort to hoofing it either, I see Junior Stanislas is incredible for them, Howe will still be blasted by some on here for ''spending millions'' though.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:46 am

KRBFC wrote:Howe is a far better manager than Dyche. He did first time what Dyche hasn't done, kept a side in the PL.

But he didn't do it at Burnley though did he, if he was such a great Manager he would have had us in a better position than he did, regardless of personal issues.

He has a similar profile to SD, no more and no less.

And Stanislas was offered a new contract at Burnley, he chose to leave.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:57 am

JohnMac wrote:But he didn't do it at Burnley though did he, if he was such a great Manager he would have had us in a better position than he did, regardless of personal issues.

He has a similar profile to SD, no more and no less.

And Stanislas was offered a new contract at Burnley, he chose to leave.

I'm fully aware Junior was offered a new deal but he wasn't really in Dyches plans. So We're completely discounting Howes achivement of taking a transfer bargo side in League Two to a successful Premier League side because he didn't gain promotion with us instantly? Howes vision was long term, he built the foundations for success, unfortunately for us he didn't stick around to see out the project he started. Howe was stuck with bad apples like Chris McCann who he couldn't shift, Shackell was playing the entire time through injury and pain. I've no doubt Howe would have eventually got it right.

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:58 am

Highest position or not, Dyche is out of his depth. We have no worries whatsoever about him being poached by another premier league team. Do i want rid of him, no is the answer, because I cant see us being an established premier league team. But at this level he is clueless when it comes to tactics away from home.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:11 am

Changes formation, players and style every game. It's like he has no clue at all what he's doing, surely after multiple hammerings he would have used his brain and solved the problem. Lack of width is a problem, where's the solution? Arfield still wide left I see. Hendrick playing behind a striker is laughable tbh. His subs are garbage, does anyone know what formation we switched to when Vokes came on? Seemed like a desperate move by a manager all out of ideas. Hes your typical ex league one defender turned manager

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:49 am

Cheer up it's a new week and we are at home Saturday.

If we win then you'll have to find something else to do next weekend!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:03 am

Nah, KRBFC sticks to his guns in all fairness to them.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:55 am

KRBFC
I don't deny Howe is a good manager but it was never going to happen with us, the dark satanic grime of Alderly Edge was just toooo much for the likes of Mrs H so his mind wasn't 100% on the job. The best thing that could happen was Bournemouth coming in for him so everyone ended up happy because he would have been gone within a year.

Whilst you say he laid the foundations didn't he also destroy a very good Youth department and set us back years by installing his own puppet at the expense of Terry Pashley and Andy Farrell.

As for his success at Bournemouth, don't overlook the money he has had available. You don't spend £12m on a player without a very rich and willing benefactor when you have crowds of their size.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:15 am

More or less, DSS...

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:10 pm

To say Arfield is league is just ridiculous.
Hendrick is still a (relatively) young lad, with plenty of time to improve, especially for a central midfielder.

Dyche himself is still a young manager, with time to improve.
He will only learn and improve by being able to solve problems without destroying what he does have whilst finding the solution.
The time will come that Dyche will go, and there's every chance that when he does it will be a sad day for us all.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:18 pm

JTClaret wrote: The time will come that Dyche will go, and there's every chance that when he does it will be a sad day for us all.

I could probably knock together a list of people off here who are sat waiting in eager anticipation for it to happen.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:53 pm

I would be far more worried about having spent 20 million or so on Hendrick and Defour especially with regard to Defours fitness level. No doubt he has the ability but clearly he is unable to get to the fitness level required to play in The Premier League. SD must be worried that his 2 major signings are not up to scratch.......yet.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:54 pm

As is usual on these threads there is Dyche should be sacked vs Dyche is the messiah with very little argument inbetween. It's definitely too harsh to say that he's out of his depth, but there is no doubt that managing Burnley at this level exposes some of his weaknesses and the main one, for me, is in the transfer market.

We are undoubtedly working with the weakest squad in the division and obviously that is primarily down to finance. There were plenty of people suggesting that our transfer business wasn't shrewd enough in the Summer though and that we were repeating the mistakes of two years ago (very limited shortlist with no willingness to deviate from it or take a couple of calculated gambles) and it's looking very much as though that could be the case. Dyche spends a lot of time in the media 'managing expectations' and making out that it is barely possible for Burnley to build a competitive squad, and it is undeniably always going to be very difficult but the evidence from the likes of Bournemouth shows that it's certainly not impossible. I know the Howe success story really irks some on here, but while he's had a lot of financial support by Bournemouth standards the budget available to him by comparison to other clubs (the measure that actually means something) is still fairly modest. How many players has he signed since promotion that would have been out of Burnley's reach this year? He's still playing with players he signed in League One and the Championship and making it work both home and away, and while we are floundering from one inept away performance to the next it's not unreasonable that people will look elsewhere and wonder why we're incapable of competing on the road. It's only natural that that leads to questions being asked of the manager.

Fireguard · Post by **Fireguard** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:13 pm

How many players have we transferred in during the last four years that have now gone or been put out on loan because they aren't or weren't good enough. This has to be down to serious misjudgement and clearly has had an impact on our squads strength.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:32 pm

Fireguard wrote:How many players have we transferred in during the last four years that have now gone or been put out on loan because they aren't or weren't good enough. This has to be down to serious misjudgement and clearly has had an impact on our squads strength.

Perhaps you could let us know which clubs have not signed dud players? I think you'll find the person who never makes a bad signing hasn't actually been born yet. Remember also that we're signing players on lower budgets than everyone else. If you're paying lower wages than the next team, and the player you sign isn't as good as the next team's player, is that necessarily a sign of serious misjudgement?

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:51 pm

KRBFC wrote:Howe is a far better manager than Dyche. He did first time what Dyche hasn't done, kept a side in the PL.

He was also ' 'treading mater' with us for quite a while before he jumped ship. Things fell very nicely for Howe in the management stakes and it was Dyche that had to pick up the pieces when Howe left. You don't like Dyche and that's okay with me but don't re-write history otherwise it j ust becomes a fable.
Like a number of posters on here I was at Selhurst Park for his last game and even at 2-0 up it was clear he had little or no interest in our club anymore. He must have known then a job was available in his beloved South Coast and it was a pitiful surrender by the team and him that day. Keeps landing on his feet does Eddie and good luck to him but be careful what you wish for- just look down the road for evidence of that.

SussexDon1inIreland · Post by **SussexDon1inIreland** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:23 pm

I cannot think of one other manager I would rather have at Turf Moor than SD (Martin O'Neil perhaps if SD left)

I hope you don't read this rubbish Sean but for me you are doing an amazing job not just with the players but the way you have created longevity at Burnley Football Club with all the great efforts to improve the ground and the training facilities at Gawthorpe my beloved club is assured a strong viable healthy future for the first time in years.

UTC

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:09 pm

Howe was on the verge of being sacked at Burnley. The defending was diabolical. He has not managed anywhere else but Bournemouth and I'm not convinced he would succeed elsewhere.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:21 pm

Bournemouth seems to suit Howe and with financial backing he's doing well.

I believe the jury is still out on his record signing Ibe, but its not as big an issue to them if he flops as it would be for us.
Same with one of their strikers who they paid a decent fee for last January and now want to get rid of him.
Leicester did the same with a striker during our last time up here.

One point worth noting is Howe seems to be better at spending his money down at Bournemouth then maybe Dyche is up here, but I suspect they're better organised in their transfer department.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:43 pm

A lot of short-sighted thinking on this forum.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:44 pm

The thing that all clubs crave is stability. Don't judge anything by one or two results (or even five).

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:35 pm

This is why I love being a Burnley it's the passion and the small of hint of self-delusion we all have.
We are a small town club with a big who deify anyone (manager or player) who is willing to give 100% to the club and show loyalty. He is, out of his league because we, as a club are punching way above our mid-table championship weight, he, the squad, the board need more experience at this level.
With our limited resources we are still capable of upsetting teams but we suffer from the same issue we have done for the last 30 years we don't seem to be able to beat the teams who are around us in the top league.
We need to get at least 10 points from the next 5 matches to stand a chance of survival but the way we are playing and the way our luck is running I think we will be lucky to get 3 points.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:52 pm

brexit wrote:This is why I love being a Burnley it's the passion and the small of hint of self-delusion we all have.
We are a small town club with a big who deify anyone (manager or player) who is willing to give 100% to the club and show loyalty. He is, out of his league because we, as a club are punching way above our mid-table championship weight, he, the squad, the board need more experience at this level.
With our limited resources we are still capable of upsetting teams but we suffer from the same issue we have done for the last 30 years we don't seem to be able to beat the teams who are around us in the top league.
We need to get at least 10 points from the next 5 matches to stand a chance of survival but the way we are playing and the way our luck is running I think we will be lucky to get 3 points.

Talking of delusion, what makes you think we need 10 points from the next 5 games? That's top 4 form.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:55 pm

He's not out of his depth, but he (well our recruiting/scouting squad) need to find a few more JBG's (bargains) as opposed to Hendrick's who cost a hell of a lot more and only seem to offer the same.

(PS. That's not a dig at Hendrick btw, just an observation that JBG looks like a steal and we could do with several more)