Andre Gray

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:19 pm

bumba wrote:He's 25! Work in progress? If he can't control a ball now he never will. What do you base him being our best striker on?

Yes, he's a work in progress. He's come a long way in a short time. Cut the bloke some slack!
Regarding a further 6 goals: I think that would be fine, and probably a third of what we can expect to score in the 2nd half of the season.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:20 pm

"I have a suspicion that if you awarded us points for each game based just on the minutes Defour is on the pitch, we would be top half. I suspect the same doesn't apply to Andre"

That wound be a very strange way of awarding points !

I don't agree with every decision Dyche makes and I would also like to see more of Defour as technically he is our best player.

Not sure why we can't play Defour and Gray in the same team and be successful - one is our best passer of the ball and the other our most lethal finisher.

At the end of the day though we have all these opinions on Gray, Defour and how we set up the team etc but what are they worth ? We do not see what Dyche and his team see every day and in comparison to them we all have virtually zero knowledge or experience of the professional game.

It's like doing a first aid course and then criticising a surgeon for the way he did a triple heart bypass.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:22 pm

25 and only three and a half seasons into League Football. He's a late blossomer, like Ian Wright was.
As for saying he's our best striker, I didn't say that.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:25 pm

His first touch for the winner at Bolton last season was one of the best I have ever seen.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:28 pm

bumba wrote:He's 25! Work in progress? If he can't control a ball now he never will. What do you base him being our best striker on?

Him being the top scorer last season maybe?

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:30 pm

TVC15 wrote:"That wound be a very strange way of awarding points !

I don't agree with every decision Dyche makes and I would also like to see more of Defour as technically he is our best player.

Absolutely, a strange way of awarding points but also very telling.

The answer to the Defour thing is we would have 24 points from 15 games if we ignore games he didn't play or parts of games he didn't play in. Not far off top 8 form.

Put quite simply, good things happen when he is on the pitch, and bad things happen when he isn't. The stats prove it.

The reason this is a Gray / Defour issue is that I suspect Dyche sees Defour as the fall guy to pick Gray, and I suspect that is an error, simply because at this level I think playing Defour will get us more points.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:32 pm

bumba wrote:He's 25! Work in progress? If he can't control a ball now he never will. What do you base him being our best striker on?

Walcott is still a promising player at Arsenal

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:32 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Absolutely, a strange way of awarding points but also very telling.

The answer to the Defour thing is we would have 24 points from 15 games if we ignore games he didn't play or parts of games he didn't play in. Not far off top 8 form.

Put quite simply, good things happen when he is on the pitch, and bad things happen when he isn't. The stats prove it.

The reason this is a Gray / Defour issue is that I suspect Dyche sees Defour as the fall guy to pick Gray, and I suspect that is an error, simply because at this level I think playing Defour will get us more points.

Interesting, but to make the statistics fair you would have to factor in the quality of the opposition, wouldn't you?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:49 pm

It's an even stranger way of awarding points given Defour is being hooked after 60 minutes because he is often out on his feet - Dyche obviously thinks that if he was left on the pitch then there is a very good chance that we would lose any advantage we had in the game.

Your way of calculating points gives no credit to the fact that other players are coming on and closing the game for us.

I don't agree at all that Defour is being dropped because Gray is playing - absolutely no evidence of that despite your "suspicions".

They both got picked and played excellent in the Liverpool game. They have both then lost their places for very different reasons.

Gray is back in the team and looking sharp and he came back in the team because Sam was starting to look tired and isolated. And Dyche has moved back to 4-4-2 of course.

Defour has been dropped from the midfield because Dyche has openly said that he needs to adapt to the speed / pace and relentless of the Premier League. Defour needs to compete for his place against in particular Hendrick & Marney but also the other midfielders.

Defour will get his chance to play in a 4-4-2 this weekend I reckon....if he plays well and then Hendrick comes back I don't see any reason why Hendrick and Defour can't play in the same team and we still have Gray up front in a 4-4-2

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:51 pm

"Not sure why we can't play Defour and Gray in the same team and be successful - one is our best passer of the ball and the other our most lethal finisher."

This pretty much nails it.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:07 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Him being the top scorer last season maybe?

Doesn't that make vokes the best striker this season then?

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:10 pm

If Andre gray played for the venkys we would slate everything about him, just like Burnley fans do with Jordan Rhodes. Rhodes is much better technically than gray yet we call Rhodes and defend gray?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:11 pm

bumba wrote:If Andre gray played for the venkys we would slate everything about him, just like Burnley fans do with Jordan Rhodes. Rhodes is much better technically than gray yet we call Rhodes and defend gray?

Too effing right we do.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:18 pm

bumba wrote:If Andre gray played for the venkys we would slate everything about him, just like Burnley fans do with Jordan Rhodes. Rhodes is much better technically than gray yet we call Rhodes and defend gray?

Clearly that's your view

It's not the view of Dyche

It doesn't seem like it's the view of Karanka

It's not the view of the rest of the Championship who voted Gray player of the year.

If Gray played for Ba-stards we would slag him off because he plays for them - just like we slagged Shearer and Sutton off - nothing to do with their ability.

You seriously think Burnley fans "call" Rhodes because of their views on his technical ability ? Are you f'in mental ?

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:38 pm

I think the more realistic question is who would we replace Gray with.

If we're going one up front then just Vokes I guess, Barnes has never looked like scoring that many goals and who knows about Bamford.

If it's someone new, then who is in our budget who will be better than Gray and work as Dyche requires.

The guy at Villa cost £12m or so and isn't pulling up any trees. Or we could go the loan player route, something similar to Negredo.

I don't think he's great, but I think we'll struggle to get better.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:32 am

"His first touch for the winner at Bolton last season was one of the best I have ever seen."

You have to kiss a lot of frogs.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:44 am

Greenmile wrote:His first touch for the winner at Bolton last season was one of the best I have ever seen.

One in how many??

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:46 am

TVC15 wrote:Clearly that's your view

It's not the view of Dyche

It doesn't seem like it's the view of Karanka

It's not the view of the rest of the Championship who voted Gray player of the year.

If Gray played for Ba-stards we would slag him off because he plays for them - just like we slagged Shearer and Sutton off - nothing to do with their ability.

You seriously think Burnley fans "call" Rhodes because of their views on his technical ability ? Are you f'in mental ?

I'm not sure how he even won that vote he wasn't even the best player in our team.
Yes we call Rhodes because he's good at his job, we don't ever call bad b@stard players do we?

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:38 am

Problem with Defour getting his chance in a 442 this weekend is he is likely to play with Scott Arfield as the other CM. Not exactly going to help his performance when he's partnered with someone who passes so badly he struggles to make a one-two.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:01 pm

bumba wrote:I'm not sure how he even won that vote he wasn't even the best player in our team.
Yes we call Rhodes because he's good at his job, we don't ever call bad b@stard players do we?

He was voted for by people who know a lot more about football than you ever will....but hey carry on arguing that you are right and they are all clueless.

As for b-astard rovers and not calling their bad players - really - have you ever seen or heard a Burnley fan speak well about any Blackburn player whilst they are playing for them ? It does not matter whether they are good or bad - have a think about what your saying.....you do know b@stard isn't a term of endearment don't you ?....you even say bad b@stard in your email !!!

The stuff you have come out with on Gray in this thread is embarrassing

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:29 pm

Personally have lots of sympathy for Gray and really rate him. Thought he looked a little muscle-bound at the start of this season but maybe (slighty tongue-in-cheek) he was preparing for hoof ball tactics. I would be interested to know what percentage of his goals scored for Burnley have been in the first half (when the framework is in place and for me, Gray looks ((and did last season)) an isolated and frustrated fugure) and the percentage in the 2nd half (when at times the framework seemingly becomes less rigid through need/possibly game not going our way or simply substitutions resulting in us playing to Gray`s strengths more.

I`d hazard a guess at 35%/65% (but could be way wide of the mark).

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:50 pm

HiroshimaClaret wrote:Personally have lots of sympathy for Gray and really rate him. Thought he looked a little muscle-bound at the start of this season but maybe (slighty tongue-in-cheek) he was preparing for hoof ball tactics. I would be interested to know what percentage of his goals scored for Burnley have been in the first half (when the framework is in place and for me, Gray looks ((and did last season)) an isolated and frustrated fugure) and the percentage in the 2nd half (when at times the framework seemingly becomes less rigid through need/possibly game not going our way or simply substitutions resulting in us playing to Gray`s strengths more.

I`d hazard a guess at 35%/65% (but could be way wide of the mark).

You are a little way off the mark because the ratio is 44%/56% including the goals scored this season.
He has scored 3 in the first 10 minutes: 3 between 11 and 20 mins: 0 between 20 and 30 mins: 5 between 31 and 45 mins:
5 between 46 and 60 mins: 3 between 61 and 70 mins: 4 between 71 and 80 mins: 2 from 81 minutes onwards.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:31 pm

erm...What's all the fuss about?

Last season - he scored more goals than anyone else in the championship and had the second most assists.

He's doing well at the moment, a winning goal and an assist in his last few games - and that's after 2 months out

and he plays in Claret...

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:34 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:You are a little way off the mark because the ratio is 44%/56% including the goals scored this season.
He has scored 3 in the first 10 minutes: 3 between 11 and 20 mins: 0 between 20 and 30 mins: 5 between 31 and 45 mins:
5 between 46 and 60 mins: 3 between 61 and 70 mins: 4 between 71 and 80 mins: 2 from 81 minutes onwards.

Fair enough...perception, eh? He just always seems to cut a rather forlorn figure to me, ESPECIALLY in the first half of games. Thanks anyway for the info.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:57 pm

I Quite like the Barnes/Gray pairing......

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:09 pm

TVC15 wrote:He was voted for by people who know a lot more about football than you ever will....but hey carry on arguing that you are right and they are all clueless.

As for b-astard rovers and not calling their bad players - really - have you ever seen or heard a Burnley fan speak well about any Blackburn player whilst they are playing for them ? It does not matter whether they are good or bad - have a think about what your saying.....you do know b@stard isn't a term of endearment don't you ?....you even say bad b@stard in your email !!!

The stuff you have come out with on Gray in this thread is embarrassing

Embarrassing? I'm not the one defending his first touch which is terrible, two goals this season isn't good going. Had one decent half all season he isn't playing well at all.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:16 pm

bumba wrote: two goals this season isn't good going.

You could do with a few other numbers to bring a bit of context to that.

You'd then realise it's silly.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:17 pm

bumba wrote:Embarrassing? I'm not the one defending his first touch which is terrible, two goals this season isn't good going. Had one decent half all season he isn't playing well at all.

Being in and out of the team hasn't helped,hope he gets a good run from now to the end of the season ..then is when we should judge him ..I think

;

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:25 pm

Embarrassing that you can't read - I have never said he had a good first touch - as many have pointed out on this thread his first touch is not why we bought him - it's his pace, power and goals. He offers what nobody ends in the team does.

Are you saying you would prefer a striker with a great first touch who doesn't score any goals ?

Or are you saying you want a striker with a brilliant first touch who scores 20 goals in the Premier League after only just being promoted from the Championship ? If so those players don't exist - unless you care to suggest any.

You keep on banging on about his stats this season and how bad they are.....

Gray has only started 10 games this season - he's got 2 goals and 2 assists. We all know why he has not started more and that was outside of his control

"Half a good season" ? Where do you get this sh-ite from ? You are an absolute tool.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:57 pm

Gray has started 10 games this season and has come on as substitute in 2.
Prior to his suspension he started 5 matches and played a total of 428 minutes.
Since then he has started 5 matches and come on as substitute in 2 and spent a further 475 minutes on the pitch.

He scored his first PL goal in his second game after a total of 127 minutes on the pitch. His second came after a further 766 minutes on the pitch.

Compare this to Jamie Vardy who has made similar progress from non-league football.

Vardy scored his first PL goal in his first full appearance in the PL after coming on as a sub in the previous 2 matches.
The timing of his first goal equated to 113 minutes on the pitch. His second came after a further 1441 minutes on the pitch during which he had made a further 11 starts and 6 substitute appearances.

In the 4 games after his second goal he scored 2 crucial goals in a run that saw Leicester win 7 draw 1 and lose 1 of their last 9 games.
His winners were against Burnley at the Turf and a last minute goal in a 3-2 win at West Brom.

It would appear that it takes time to adjust and, in all seriousness, because of the 'tweet saga', Andre has had just over a quarter of a season which has been split into two patches. He is working hard and is a threat if he gets behind defences, hence his goal on Saturday.

Ooogeorgeorgeoghani · Post by **Ooogeorgeorgeoghani** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:04 pm

I agree re the Barnes, gray pairing, more mobile and will create space for defour to either find a killer pass or push on and shoot

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:16 pm

Where is big MO !!!!

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:17 pm

mohamed69 wrote:What's a wum and what game? I am posting my opinions on a message board, just as you are. Mine don't match yours so I have to 'get a life'? Get a grip mate

What's your opinion on Grays first touch ?

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:18 pm

Bumba and Mohamed, you pair of divots.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:25 pm

You're an idiot, bumba.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:40 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:Don't agree with you at all mohammed69.

Think Gray is a finisher. He's not been getting enough opportunities. It's only a matter of time that he scores 2 or 3. Must be hard for young players having to take the weight of Internet know-it-alls.

Told you all 5 days ago!!

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:07 pm

Have to say I thought his first touch today was rubbish, however, his second and Third were SUPERB, well done Andre

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:07 pm

Who needs vokes

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:08 pm

mohamed69 wrote:What a strange thing to say. No one has been relegated yet...

Gray is on track for 5-6 goals. nowhere near good enough. It's as simple as that guys. I don't understand the controversy.

Lol

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:08 pm

I said months ago and I'll say it again: Andre Gray is better than Danny Ings. I may have caused several heart attacks, of which I apologise, but give the lad time and I'll be proved correct.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:10 pm

cutsy123 wrote:Who needs vokes

We do. But we also need Andre scoring 20 each season.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:14 pm

CnBtruntru wrote:Have to say I thought his first touch today was rubbish, however, his second and Third were SUPERB, well done Andre

Three wonderful goals from our Hat Trick Hero.

Andre had a wonderful first touch out on the right wing we (if memory serves) led to one of Arfield's chances. (In the excitement, I might be mixing things up). The point is Andre showed some great first touches - he's starting to grow into the Premier League.

UTC

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:15 pm

Thought Gray had a poor game today

Dyche should have hooked him early doors.

Awful awful first touch

Dyche needs to go....we'd do a lot worse than appoint Bumba and Mohammed as our new management team - on the condition of course they are allowed time off school.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:16 pm

Aye. Some folk looking pretty damn silly on this thread now.

Gray was terrific today. Pace, purpose and - most crucially of all - confidence. Everything else follows from the last bit.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:17 pm

Think he did okay today.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:17 pm

I thought Grays first touch was first class today , Barnes also was outstanding.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:18 pm

KRBFC wrote:King Andre

bump

#ApparentlyI'malwaysNegative

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:19 pm

KRBFC wrote:Feed Gray and he will score, don't feed him and he won't score.... it's that simple.
He was awful today because he was given absolutely nothing to work off, apart from high hanging long balls easy for defenders like Gibson to beat him too. Took his goal well and worked his balls off, no complaints from me, I never doubted Andre tbh.

bump

#ApparentlyI'malwaysNegative

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:23 pm

Just eaten my piece.

Well done Andre, the sign of a top goal scorer.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:24 pm

Quality today. Should give him heaps of confidence.