Andre Gray

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
Diesel
Posts: 3089
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:56 pm
Been Liked: 1228 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Andre Gray

Post by Diesel » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:31 pm

Someone has to say it, so I will.

He isn't good enough.

gandhisflipflop
Posts: 5500
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm
Been Liked: 2317 times
Has Liked: 1399 times
Location: Costa del Padihamos beach.

Re: Andre Gray

Post by gandhisflipflop » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:33 pm

He played much better today. His technique let's him down however.

Rileybobs
Posts: 16681
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6891 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:33 pm

Needs to up his game. Very wasteful.

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by KRBFC » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:34 pm

Thought he was bright, caused Dier problems constantly, a confident Andre would have scored today though.

Garnerssoap
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:50 pm
Been Liked: 392 times
Has Liked: 514 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Garnerssoap » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:36 pm

He's getting better with every start. Had a tough time ( of his own making ) and not played for a while which can't be easy at this level

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:37 pm

Never makes something for himself, when he gets it down the channels his awareness, touch and passing is poor and we arent a good enough team to give him enough of the chances he likes and needs to score goals like he did last year.

Trouble is none of the other strikers are good enough at this level so we're just have to make the best out of what we've got and hope between the three of them we just have enough to keep us up

Bin Ont Turf
Posts: 10948
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:38 am
Been Liked: 5154 times
Has Liked: 795 times
Location: On top of a pink elephant riding to the Democratic Republic of Congo

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:37 pm

In the first half a ball was played into his feet with his back to the goal, his first touch sent the ball about 8ft up in the air and about 10ft away from him.

Come on Andre!
This user liked this post: lrac

jurek
Posts: 1790
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:38 pm
Been Liked: 309 times
Has Liked: 3 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by jurek » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:37 pm

I think Gray needs a few starts and obviously a goal and then
he might just setlle down and prove that he can do well at this level.

Darthlaw
Posts: 3060
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:08 pm
Been Liked: 1177 times
Has Liked: 414 times
Location: Death Star, Dark Side Row S Seat 666

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Darthlaw » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:37 pm

Way short of confidence and it shows, particularly with the sitter he fired straight at Lloris.

Looked a lot better though as the passes were played in behind for him to run on to and he certainly seems to work better off Barnes in the PL, so I would persevere.
Last edited by Darthlaw on Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gnulty
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:21 pm
Been Liked: 179 times
Has Liked: 119 times
Location: Moorway

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Gnulty » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:37 pm

Good enough and getting better.

ksrclaret
Posts: 6804
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:56 am
Been Liked: 2488 times
Has Liked: 760 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:38 pm

Did much better at getting down the sides of the Spurs CH's today and did well on a couple of occasions in the box.

He does lack quality though and, again, needs to keep working on that first touch and weight of pass.

lakesclaret
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:49 pm
Been Liked: 151 times
Has Liked: 4 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by lakesclaret » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:39 pm

Thought AG did ok really looked v willing tho spuds defence is classy.Bearing in mind were a horribly weak side in the prem ( even more so without Gud and Defour) they're all playing to their absolute max capability ,so churlish to complain imo.
These 4 users liked this post: holdyourfire evensteadiereddie 3putt gawthorpe_view

frankel
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:03 am
Been Liked: 11 times
Has Liked: 6 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by frankel » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:41 pm

Andre did really well today, just like the rest of the team. If we continue to play in this way away from home we won't be going down for sure.
And let's not forget Andre is still a young player and learning all the time.
Now is the time to back him, not snipe at him.
Contrast in performance from wed to today is massive.
These 5 users liked this post: holdyourfire roamingclaret Buxtonclaret Anonymous k90bfc

MACCA
Posts: 15591
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:10 am
Been Liked: 4360 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by MACCA » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:41 pm

Apart from his control and ability to beat a man when 1 v 1 ( which his pace should make it easier ) he is getting better.

Where waa he 2/3 years ago?
He has jumped up a level a season nearly.

That said if we are wanting to keep him I would tie him down now or sell him. No point playing into form for him to bugger off elsewhere without him contributing to our cause.

dougcollins
Posts: 6586
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:23 am
Been Liked: 1778 times
Has Liked: 1773 times
Location: Yarkshire

Re: Andre Gray

Post by dougcollins » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:42 pm

Vokes is not hacking it though either, his every second touch is a tackle.

John Johnson 1605
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 9:49 am
Been Liked: 237 times
Has Liked: 48 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by John Johnson 1605 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:43 pm

Someone has to say it, so I will.

An utterly pointless thread.
This user liked this post: BennyD

Diesel
Posts: 3089
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:56 pm
Been Liked: 1228 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Diesel » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:45 pm

He should be coached as a 'two touch' player, control and pass or ideally, one touch shot off, footballing ability wise he is miles away.

Claret&Green
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:02 pm
Been Liked: 53 times
Has Liked: 24 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Claret&Green » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:48 pm

We're not good enough, 1 thru to 46

holdyourfire
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:23 pm
Been Liked: 92 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by holdyourfire » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:50 pm

Lets give the lads some credit,they are decent championship players,being asked to compete with multi talented superstars.In my opinion,they are working their plums off for the cause.Lets get behind them in 2017.UTC.
These 15 users liked this post: 1968claret Stevie2112 gc14 minnieclaret sanderson370 Rumpelstiltskin evensteadiereddie Claretrew hampsteadclaret Clarets4me gawthorpe_view Woodleyclaret ClaretCliff k90bfc clerkenwell.claret

Stevie2112
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:36 pm
Been Liked: 151 times
Has Liked: 473 times
Location: Willowdale

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Stevie2112 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:52 pm

Well said HYF

Diesel
Posts: 3089
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:56 pm
Been Liked: 1228 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Diesel » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:00 pm

holdyourfire wrote:Lets give the lads some credit,they are decent championship players,being asked to compete with multi talented superstars.In my opinion,they are working their plums off for the cause.Lets get behind them in 2017.UTC.
Scenario: We're 2-1 down in the 87th minute, Andre has the ball on the edge of their box, the penalty area is loaded with Clarets....what does he do? He tries a stupid a fancy dinky cross? that hits the stomach of the first defender! As I've said, not good enough.

holdyourfire
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:23 pm
Been Liked: 92 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by holdyourfire » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:00 pm

All good RUSH fans think alike!
This user liked this post: Stevie2112

Lowbankclaret
Posts: 6571
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:42 pm
Been Liked: 1233 times
Has Liked: 56 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:02 pm

here here HYT
This user liked this post: Stevie2112

minnieclaret
Posts: 6842
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:05 am
Been Liked: 2012 times
Has Liked: 2287 times
Location: lismore co. waterford

Re: Andre Gray

Post by minnieclaret » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:06 pm

Best performance of the season today.
After an improved performance at West Ham.
Might be finding his feet at last and he looked to be moving better and quicker.

JohnDearyMe
Posts: 2723
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:31 pm
Been Liked: 666 times
Has Liked: 2041 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by JohnDearyMe » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:18 pm

When he has time to weigh up a cross or pass i think he struggles. Far better when he has little reaction time and has to be more instinctive
This user liked this post: holdyourfire

CrosspoolClarets
Posts: 5229
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
Been Liked: 1623 times
Has Liked: 397 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:33 pm

Gray wasn't good enough last year against the top sides so it was hard to see him being good enough this year, but he is full of potential and may well improve over the season (albeit will never master his first touch). He also stretches the opposition. I think as well his misses against Sours and West Ham were more to do with his confidence not his weaknesses.

Let's be frank though, whatever Gray is he is a darn sight better than the likes of Juke and Sordell so let's be grateful we are stronger this time.

bumba
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:21 pm
Been Liked: 663 times
Has Liked: 192 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by bumba » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:43 pm

KRBFC wrote:Thought he was bright, caused Dier problems constantly, a confident Andre would have scored today though.
Confident or not he should of scored that chance, his pass for Boyd on that counter was terrible. Got laughed at in the summer on here for suggesting he wouldn't score 10 goals in a season at this level.

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:43 pm

I think Gray and Barnes are decent subs to have to chase a game or help defend a lead. What we are missing is a quality lone striker to start in the 4-5-1 formation who has a good all round game like a Deeney or a Rodriguez and could play with either Barnes or Gray in a 4-4-2

Unfortunately strikers of that quality cost more money than we have and if there's one area of weakness with Dyche its his ability to spot a good striker who doesn't cost the earth or the ability to get one in on loan

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Sidney1st » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:53 pm

Cost more money then we have?

Deeney and Jay both came up from lower leagues, along with Vardy and Ulloa.

Its about finding the right player, not the amount they cost.

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30273
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10916 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:55 pm

needs to lose some of his muscle bulk to be effective, no question in my mind that he's lost a yard of pace over the summer. Thought he was ok today, probably his best performance - he at least looked interested
This user liked this post: nutsinmay

TVC15
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 3321 times
Has Liked: 601 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by TVC15 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:55 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Gray wasn't good enough last year against the top sides so it was hard to see him being good enough this year, but he is full of potential and may well improve over the season (albeit will never master his first touch). He also stretches the opposition. I think as well his misses against Sours and West Ham were more to do with his confidence not his weaknesses.

Let's be frank though, whatever Gray is he is a darn sight better than the likes of Juke and Sordell so let's be grateful we are stronger this time.
Gray wasn't good enough against the top sides ?

Didn't he score against Brighton home and away ? Sheffield Wednesday, Derby.....and no doubt numerous others if I could be bothered to check.

Not sure what some fans want or the basis for some of their views.....leading goal scorer - 24/25 goals etc etc

Taffy on the wing
Posts: 4600
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:41 am
Been Liked: 1020 times
Has Liked: 3162 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:55 pm

i think Barnes and Gray will form a good partnership!
They just need some good service. Really want to see them play from the start with Defour, Gray needs the ball on the deck.
Think we'll be all right.

SkiptonClaret
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:06 pm
Been Liked: 294 times
Has Liked: 92 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by SkiptonClaret » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:58 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Cost more money then we have?

Deeney and Jay both came up from lower leagues, along with Vardy and Ulloa.

Its about finding the right player, not the amount they cost.
Yeah but the problem is you need an effective scouting network for that.
This user liked this post: Sidney1st

Il Duce
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 71 times
Has Liked: 7 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Il Duce » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Thought he didn't well today, couple of dodgy touches and one missed opportunity but covered a lot of ground and caused problems.

FactualFrank
Posts: 25445
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:46 am
Been Liked: 6930 times
Has Liked: 11660 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Andre Gray

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:38 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:needs to lose some of his muscle bulk to be effective, no question in my mind that he's lost a yard of pace over the summer. Thought he was ok today, probably his best performance - he at least looked interested
Im sure if Dyche knows what he's doing, he'll be telling him to do just that.

joey13
Posts: 7501
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1767 times
Has Liked: 1230 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by joey13 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:58 pm

As a confidence player he needs to be playing , a couple of goals and h will be flying
This user liked this post: k90bfc

bumba
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:21 pm
Been Liked: 663 times
Has Liked: 192 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by bumba » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:12 pm

TVC15 wrote:Gray wasn't good enough against the top sides ?

Didn't he score against Brighton home and away ? Sheffield Wednesday, Derby.....and no doubt numerous others if I could be bothered to check.

Not sure what some fans want or the basis for some of their views.....leading goal scorer - 24/25 goals etc etc
Sheff weds and Brighton away were tap ins on the goal line, derby and Brighton at home were penalties.
He struggled against any team with decent centre halves and is really struggling in the premier league
This user liked this post: ten bellies

watsonsclarets
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:34 pm
Been Liked: 70 times
Has Liked: 120 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by watsonsclarets » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:15 pm

I suspect whoever it may be he will play from this point more games in the top division than lower.

I think he will be fine and is just getting his sharpness back.

He needs the correct service mind, today he hit the target

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Sidney1st » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:44 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:Yeah but the problem is you need an effective scouting network for that.
Then we need an effective transfer negotiation team.....

We're buggered then.

TVC15
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 3321 times
Has Liked: 601 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by TVC15 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:52 pm

bumba wrote:Sheff weds and Brighton away were tap ins on the goal line, derby and Brighton at home were penalties.
He struggled against any team with decent centre halves and is really struggling in the premier league

F-uck me some fans will clutch at any straw when they have it in for a player.

Gray scored an absolute bag full and tore apart plenty of good centre backs and defences

Nobody is going to play well in every game - exactly which top teams did he struggle against ?.....as all of the team struggled against Boro and Hull - yet we still won the division and finished higher than them....and we would not have done that with Gray.

Whether he's good enough for the Premier League none of us know yet - but you can say that for all of our team - with the exception of Heaton and Keane.

But for fans to say they knew Gray was not good enough based on his "pathetic" 25 goals in the Championship winning side is pretty embarrassing
This user liked this post: bartons baggage

JohnMac
Posts: 7179
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:11 pm
Been Liked: 2367 times
Has Liked: 3781 times
Location: Padiham

Re: Andre Gray

Post by JohnMac » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:53 pm

He shot straight at Lloris or did Lloris make a good save?

Kane shot straight through Heatons legs only to hit his foot or did Heaton make a good save?

Fine margins for Strikers and Keepers alike.

Andre's first touch has let him down since the day he pulled on a Claret shirt but he is still the best we have got and must continue to play.

He was never going to be prolific at this level but he will score a few and could be the difference between Premier League and Championship next season.

UTC

Rileybobs
Posts: 16681
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6891 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:07 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Let's be frank though, whatever Gray is he is a darn sight better than the likes of Juke and Sordell so let's be grateful we are stronger this time.
We had Danny Ings last time.

SGr
Posts: 4412
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:46 pm
Been Liked: 1022 times
Has Liked: 307 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by SGr » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:14 pm

Can't pass to save his life

SonofPog
Posts: 592
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:52 am
Been Liked: 157 times
Has Liked: 82 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by SonofPog » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:16 pm

I'll admit waiver in the "don't think it has what it takes" camp. There's something there for sure, but he does have some flaws, and his biggest assists, his pace and strength and less are so if the PL, you need other things to your game.

I also don't like that it means we have Vokes "in the hole" no.10 role, and Gray up top, rather than Vokes up top and a "Ings" type player in the hole, like last time, asks to much of Vokes IMO.

But all three of our strikers have flaws, personally I'm a Barnes Man myself.

Conroy92
Posts: 1331
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:06 pm
Been Liked: 497 times
Has Liked: 30 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Conroy92 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:30 pm

Gray needs an amc just behind him playing him through 1 on 1. Until he's getting that type of service it's hard to tell if he's up to it. I'd like to see a 4-5-1 with defour or hendrix just In behind gray, think defour would play some lovely waited balls through to gray.

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:42 pm

All be it for just one game Gray looked lost up front on his own at Leicester in a 4-5-1 as he just hasnt got the ability to hold up the ball and bring the 3 supporting players into the game. Likewise Defour looked equally as poor that day playing in the hole as he doesnt get the space to pull the strings and pick passes and he isnt mobile or strong enough to link our midfield and attack together

In better teams who have more possession further up the pitch both might be able to play those roles but for Burnley Defour needs to play deeper and be the playmaker and if Gray plays he needs a partner in a 4-4-2

As a result i struggle to see them in the same team unless Hendrick or Marney plays the Boyd or Arfield role in a 4-4-2

ten bellies
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:53 pm
Been Liked: 237 times
Has Liked: 1283 times

Re: Andre Gray

Post by ten bellies » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:53 pm

Gray is powerful, reasonably quick, and has a vicious shot. However at this level his close control is generally poor, he regularly switches off mentally during the game, and his ability to bend his runs to evade the offside trap is lacking. Moreover he's not scoring, where in championship he was.

California Colner
Posts: 1395
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:31 pm
Been Liked: 171 times
Has Liked: 112 times
Location: Santa Clarita, LA

Re: Andre Gray

Post by California Colner » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:32 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:In the first half a ball was played into his feet with his back to the goal, his first touch sent the ball about 8ft up in the air and about 10ft away from him.

Come on Andre!
I've been saying that his first touch is school boy level all season

bartons baggage
Posts: 1429
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:33 pm
Been Liked: 597 times
Has Liked: 541 times
Location: bonlah

Re: Andre Gray

Post by bartons baggage » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:34 am

[quote="JohnMac"]He shot straight at Lloris or did Lloris make a good save?

He did what all strikers should do,he hit it hard,kept it low and was on target. :D
This user liked this post: JohnMac

JohnMac
Posts: 7179
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:11 pm
Been Liked: 2367 times
Has Liked: 3781 times
Location: Padiham

Re: Andre Gray

Post by JohnMac » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:37 am

bartons baggage wrote:
Agreed, it is instinctive and 9 times out of 10 it's a goal.

I have no problem with Andre.

Post Reply