Kamil Grosicki

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:36 pm

Get him we might get a good few local Poles coming t'Turf. Good player though.

We need Stephens and Lansbury as well and another striker who actually scores. Not asking much is it!!!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:37 pm

claretspice wrote:If Grosicki wants the move, and if he has all the qualities attributed to him on this thread, then leaving aside the fact it is extraordinary he's still playing for Rennes at his age, both we and he would be bonkers to allow a 700,000 Euro gambling debt to be a deal breaker. It might at a stretch have been too much to overcome at the very last minute if we didn't know about it before (although as above, his gambling issues have been documented before), but 4 months is plenty of time to broker a solution which doesn't alter the harmony of the squad if all parties are keen. After all, we've just signed another player with gambling issues and a past so that can't in itself be the problem.

That said, it seems to me that if he does have the combination of genuine end-product, goal threat, pace, robustness and determination attributed to him on this thread, then he's almost too good to be true. And you know how that saying goes...

A bit crazy to link the gambling of Grosicki with that of Barton - one has gambling issues maybe, the other had serious gambling debts.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:44 pm

Didn't Barton's equate to 2 a week? Hardly a problem.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:44 pm

Stayingup wrote:Get him we might get a good few local Poles coming t'Turf. Good player though.

We need Stephens and Lansbury as well and another striker who actually scores. Not asking much is it!!!

Sky sports saying villa have tabled a bid for lansbury.

Gestede going boro on a 3.5 year deal for 6 million. What they paid b*******s

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:46 pm

Barton's issue with gambling is he got caught betting on something he shouldn't, not really an addiction. It sounds like Grosicki would bet on two flies walking up the Bob Lord bogs urinals.

One (Grosicki) needs managing advising and educating the other (Barton) needs telling to stop being a knob it's not allowed...

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:26 pm

If the 700,000 Euro debt becomes £1 Million this time next year is that a deal breaker, or not?

If he no longer gambles and once the debt is paid the issue goes away permanantly then fine but a serious gambler is only one tip away from another win, if it doesn't happen today then surely it will be tomorrow, or certainly at the weekend.

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:29 pm

Sean will cure him with an omelette. Sign him up.

Reb · Post by **Reb** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:22 am

I think his attitude towards his gambling debts were as much a problem as the debts themselves.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 am

such a shame cause he would be ideal for us

yorkyclaret · Post by **yorkyclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:19 am

Can't see it happening, why risk it, comfortable mid table, don't need to risk problems in the dressing room.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:05 am

I wouldn't say 'comfortable' mid-table.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:38 am

'Comfortable mid-table' is EXACTLY the mindset that we can't be in.

Oppycat · Post by **Oppycat** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:56 am

Weren't Blackpool in the top half of the league at this time of year in their Premier League relegation season?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:09 am

RocketLawnChair wrote:Barton's issue with gambling is he got caught betting on something he shouldn't, not really an addiction. It sounds like Grosicki would bet on two flies walking up the Bob Lord bogs urinals.

Claretmatt4 wrote:Didn't Barton's equate to 2 a week? Hardly a problem.

Is it known that that's the extent of Batton's gambling? Betting on football is all that's been highlighted as it breaks FA rules. Does anyone know what else might be havin a punt on?

Betting when he presumably knows is against the rules of his sport suggests to me that there may be a problem.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:16 am

It was reported as around 1000 bets over a 10 year period was it not? Fair enough if that's only football bets but 2 bets a week over ten years wouldn't stand out to me as an issue.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:22 am

As I said, he might be placing 200 bets a week but the FA is only interested in his bets on football so these are the only ones they have highlighted.

I might be wrong but the point I'm trying to make is that, as far as I am aware, the full facts aren't known.

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:24 am

I agree with the earlier suggestion 4 months has passed to build or maintain a relationship with him. The deal breaking event clearly happened at the last minute so if dyche was really keen on him maybe we have tried to understand or help move him towards rehab or something similar.

I hope we have been able to do that and it turns out well as he's does look like the perfect type of player for us.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:25 am

Fair enough I guess but seems silly to assume he'd have a gambling issue based on 2 footy bets a week in my opinion.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:28 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:Fair enough I guess but seems silly to assume he'd have a gambling issue based on 2 footy bets a week in my opinion.

Why does he need to have 2 football bets (if that's all it is) a week?
Most of us bet for the buzz/financial gain but that in itself probably is a problem.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:31 am

Maybe he doesn't need to he just does it because it's fun predicting football results?

As you said we don't know the facts other than he places around 1000 bets on football in a 10 year period.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:33 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:Fair enough I guess but seems silly to assume he'd have a gambling issue based on 2 footy bets a week in my opinion.

And to me it seems naive to assume that these are his only bets. Especially as they are bets that are against the FA rules.

But as you say, fair enough. It's just my view.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:36 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:Maybe he doesn't need to he just does it because it's fun predicting football results?

As you said we don't know the facts other than he places around 1000 bets on football in a 10 year period.

He can do that with a pen and piece of paper or even on his Twitter account (if that's allowed). Let's be honest you don't really need to gamble if you want to have a bit of fun. There's quite a few different ways of doing it. Anyone who bets regularly on a particular sport has a bit of a problem whether it's a major one or not is a different kettle of fish.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:38 am

I may be wrong here, but this 1,260 bets over a 10 year period, what's the issue? Perhaps the story is a lot smaller than this?

Betting on football full stop (anything, anywhere) came in in August 2014 (2.1/2 years ago). Prior to that he wasn't allowed to bet on a competition he was involved in. Okay, the wording isn't clear as to whether that means English football in general, or the division he plays in, but if it's the latter, and again the wording isn't clear, then he'd have to have been very naughty for this to actually be a 10 year issue rather than a 2 year issue.

I am assuming here that when the Scots began investigating months ago he stopped?

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:38 am

Well have to agree to disagree mate!

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:47 am

Anyone that knows me knows i gamble quite a bit. I do it for the buzz AND financial gain and it was a problem quite a few years ago (not major), my mate said to me once "you'd bet on a goat race if there was one"! It can be very addictive to the point were you try and play it down! Saying that I never lost loads of money infact quite the opposite which is probably why I gambled daily! Just do it every 2 days now.

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:01 am

Does anyone know how much truth there is in the link resurfacing?

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:49 am

Huge difference between Barton & Grosicki.

Quoonbeatz said the real reason, it was believed by the player that his debt would be paid by Rennes. They then tried to pass that over to us, despite having already agreeing a transfer fee (a portion of which they still could have used to pay off the debts). They asked for more on top of the transfer fee at the last minute, hence the player was in the UK to discuss terms.

It was a decision based on business negotiation. The seller trying to get more out of the customer at the last second, thinking the customer would just pay up as the deal was so far progressed. True the debts ask questions about the players' off the field activities, but the deal fell through because Rennes moved the goalposts at the last minute and Burnley had the sense to walk away from a deal.

If he had an agreement with Rennes then fine, if they had used some of the transfer fee we were going to pay them to pay off his debts then fine. But asking Burnley FC pay for more money on top of what had already been agreed, at the last minute is trying to take us for mugs with more money than sense. If we said okay, what would stop them asking again for something else?

exclaret · Post by **exclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:04 pm

Chris Boden from the Burnley Express (who's 99% right/on the money) says that he highly doubts Grosicki will be even looked at again.

This whole thread is pointless

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm

exclaret wrote:Chris Boden from the Burnley Express (who's 99% right/on the money) says that he highly doubts Grosicki will be even looked at again.

This whole thread is pointless

I don't read the Burnley Express but I doubt that Boden is right 99% of the time, and if he is it's probably because he's only given information when a signing is almost complete. I also doubt we'll look at Grosicki again, but I'm pretty sure that we weren't even publicly linked with him until transfer deadline day, which suggests that Boden had absolutely no intel about the potential transfer.

exclaret · Post by **exclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:09 pm

He broke it a day or two before (via a Polish journalist) albeit, but when he says something, it has substance.

He verifies his claims as well.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:10 pm

Why can't people just accept as the truth the often quoted statement made by Mr Garlick?

exclaret · Post by **exclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:11 pm

Happy to go with that

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:25 pm

Boden gets half his scoops off here, or certainly tweets them after they have appeared on here.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:29 pm

exclaret wrote:Chris Boden from the Burnley Express (who's 99% right/on the money) says that he highly doubts Grosicki will be even looked at again.

This whole thread is pointless

He's only right 99% of the time because he doesn't say anything until they have signed.

halfmanhalfbiscuit · Post by **halfmanhalfbiscuit** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:19 pm

Christian Gourcuff, the manager of Rennes, want's him to stay.
The president, René Ruello, and the owner, François-Henri Pinault, want him to leave as the squad is way to big.
The player is gutted not to have joined us in the summer.
His casino debts have been reduced from 1M€ to 700,000€
He's now throwing a sickie to push it through.
Burnley have an offer of 8m€ that will be accepted.
I'm told it's Rennes doing the pushing, not Burnley doing the chasing.
If we want the player, he's ours.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:28 pm

Statistically Boden is 75% right 50% of the time

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:40 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:Barton's issue with gambling is he got caught betting on something he shouldn't, not really an addiction. It sounds like Grosicki would bet on two flies walking up the Bob Lord bogs urinals.

One (Grosicki) needs managing advising and educating the other (Barton) needs telling to stop being a knob it's not allowed...

Agree with the second sentiment RLC - but for the first, do you know which won, I had a tenner on it.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:51 pm

I somehow get the idea that we're trying to sign other players first without the baggage (i.e gambling debts) but that if we're unsuccessful then we'll be back for Grosicki....

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:56 pm

halfmanhalfbiscuit wrote:Christian Gourcuff, the manager of Rennes, want's him to stay.
The president, René Ruello, and the owner, François-Henri Pinault, want him to leave as the squad is way to big.
The player is gutted not to have joined us in the summer.
His casino debts have been reduced from 1M€ to 700,000€
He's now throwing a sickie to push it through.
Burnley have an offer of 8m€ that will be accepted.
I'm told it's Rennes doing the pushing, not Burnley doing the chasing.
If we want the player, he's ours.

This is sort of what I was getting at. I don't dispute that Grosicki might have (or had) a bigger gambling issue than Barton. But that is baggage, and Barton has baggage. Lots of players have baggage. Robbie Blake and Glen Little apparently did. We must have known that Grosicki had some baggage well before that 11th hour piece of brinksmanship, because it seems to be widely known that Grosicki was a serious gambler so presumably Dyche's fastidious due diligence will have identified it, and Dyche must have decided he could live with it.

Therefore, it seems to me most likely that the issue was not the fact that Grosicki has gambling issues per se, but the way in which we were seemingly going to get lumbered with dealing with the consequences, i.e. paying out his debts.

And that could be solvable. If Rennes now want to do the deal, if Grosicki wants to come, it is not beyond the wit of 3 sensible and well advised parties to come up with a deal which does not mean Burnley bail out Grosicki's debts - which could easily have caused problems in the dressing room - but does mean that Rennes and Grosicki are comfortable with how they will be dealt with. It its simplest, that means going back to the original deal structure agreed in the summer which seemingly was pulled at the last minute (assuming that rumour is true).

Of course, the issue might have been that Burnley were completely unaware of the scale of Grosicki's issues and weren't in fact comfortable when they discovered it. But if so, that's a surprising and damning indictment on our due diligence. I thought Dyche was more thorough about researching character than that.

yorkyclaret · Post by **yorkyclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:51 pm

What we really don't need is a loose canon ruining all the hard work the team has done this season.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:56 pm

yorkyclaret wrote:What we really don't need is a loose canon ruining all the hard work the team has done this season.

mmmm ?

You heard of a young chap called Joseph Barton ?

yorkyclaret · Post by **yorkyclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:13 pm

Can't say I'm too worried about him, by all accounts he was great in the dressing room last season.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:15 pm

yorkyclaret wrote:Can't say I'm too worried about him, by all accounts he was great in the dressing room last season.

Does not mean Barton is not a loose cannon

If Dyche can manage someone like Barton I`m guessing he would have a good chance at managing most players.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:24 pm

Does anybody know if there is any truth with this link resurfacing or not ? Seems the lad is trying to sort his act out

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:26 pm

Imagine you have 700,000€ debts (doesn't matter whether from gambling or any other debts). If your employer says he will pay them off for you how much do you think that will cost your employer in the UK?

If he leaves you to pay the income tax, it will cost the employer 700,000€ + 96,600€ = 796,600€. The add-on is Employers National Insurance.

If the employer also says he will pay the tax (and employees NIC) then the total cost will be over 1.5€ million.

Maybe tax rules are different in France. In the UK anything the employer pays to or pays for the employee is subject to tax and NI.

Whether it was 700,000€ or 1,500,000€ the principles remain the same.

yorkyclaret · Post by **yorkyclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:27 pm

Paper talk, club desperate to get shot of him.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:32 pm

I think there might be something in it . I might be wrong lets wait and see . If you type his name in on twitter and there is loads of french papers saying that the offer is still on the table . I have no facts or evidence to back it up im just guessing like everybody else.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:48 pm

http://www.staderennais.com/fiche/kamil-grosicki" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just checked him out. Showing as 14 matches, 4 goals and 2assists.
In fact he's only played 720 mins equates to 8 matches. So he's playing well enough. Doesn't say if he's being subbed off or on. I know when he scored the goal that got a viewing on here he'd come on as a sub.

Last season his 37 appearances averaged 47 mins. He could be another Defour?
But he still scored 9 goals

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:51 pm

He scored a fantastic goal . He won goal of the month and there was some decent players in that competition . Lets just hope some bridges can be built and we can revisit the deal . Shame because he looks a handfull ticks everybox .

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:54 pm

exclaret wrote:Chris Boden from the Burnley Express (who's 99% right/on the money) says that he highly doubts Grosicki will be even looked at again.

This whole thread is pointless

This Chris Boden?