Trump/Russia Dossier

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:41 am

Rumour has it Trump is partial to a bit of water sports.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/10/polit ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First, let's address the disinformation that one or two will uncritically parrot. No, this didn't come from a 4chan troll. Someone on 4chan tried to claim that they tricked Buzzfeed into reporting this by giving them this in late October/early-November. That's untrue. The FBI have had this since August. If there are only two reporters in the in America with unimpeachable credentials Carl Bernstein is one of them. If you don't know why then watch All The President's Men.

And yes, while this is a CNN article and CNN are ****, Carl Bernstein has put his name to it in the byline so as a piece of journalism it already has far more credibility than anything else that's been reported about Trump, Clinton, or anything political in the U.S. in a long while.

Here is the document of which, it is claimed, Obama and Trump each receive a two-page synopsis.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... tions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: To be absolutely clear. While the facts contained within this dossier is under serious doubt - because good journalists have been chasing this story for months and haven't been able to prove any of it, yet - there are currently no reasons to doubt the existence of the dossier, or how and when it came to be in the intelligence community's hands.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:59 am

Praying this ends him before he starts

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:12 am

Q
Would anyone be surprised?

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:15 am

Wet Trump,we've all been there to much beer and a dodgy take away.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:24 am

They're desperately trying to stop him being president aren't they?
I don't recall this sort of effort before to stop any other president elect or candidate.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:33 am

Sidney1st wrote:They're desperately trying to stop him being president aren't they?
I don't recall this sort of effort before to stop any other president elect or candidate.

How are they trying to stop him become president? Are you suggesting the intel agencies fabricated it all to stop his presidency?
Or are you criticising the media because you don't think that it's news that the intelligence agencies saw fit to brief Trump and Obama on this?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:23 am

If Hilary had won the election would all the allegations about her and that foundation be investigated and dug up?

I get why they've told Trump and Obama about the stories, fair enough, it just seems like every other week there's something else.
As the alleged most powerful nation on earth, wouldn't it be more prudent to vet candidates before the campaign starts?
That's the part I'm finding a bit odd.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:42 am

Sidney1st wrote:If Hilary had won the election would all the allegations about her and that foundation be investigated and dug up?

Are you kidding?

Those allegations were made public... during the campaign. They were debunked repeatedly but that didn't stop Trump and his sychophants screaming about it. Want to know who's foundation has admitted to wrong doing, is currently under-investigation and that has tried to be closed by its owner? That's right.

And by the way, this whole "Trump compromised by Russia" thing was reported on in October. Mother Jones reported on it but without going into detail as to what the allegations are. That's what this story is - http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... nald-trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; So it isn't new. This dossier has been doing the rounds for some time in Washington, according to the press, and the press has been abundently clear that the contents of it have not been verified. Do you think anyone in the Trump camp was making it abundently that the Clinton Foundation allegations hadn't been verified?

As the alleged most powerful nation on earth, wouldn't it be more prudent to vet candidates before the campaign starts?
That's the part I'm finding a bit odd.

Apparently that's basically how this dossier came to be. According to Bernstein, Trump's Republican opponents started doing opposition research against him during the primaries and hired an ex-MI6 operative to dig up dirt on him. He(or she) dug this up and gave it to an FBI contact in Rome.

The Republican party didn't want Trump, mostly because he isn't a conservative, not really, but also probably because of **** like this; if not this specifically. Trump also refused to help his own vetting by not releasing his tax returns and repeatedly lying about why. He said he couldn't while under audit, but he could. He just didn't want to.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:09 am

It has come to the attention of the Irish independent Claret that one Imploding Turtle has far too much interest in the Machiavellian activities of foreign governments and their citizens.
He should cease forthwith or he may find said foreign governments on his doorstep at ***, ******* **, *******.(withheld for security).

PS Politicians are ALL khunts. Let them get on with it.

Geoff · Post by **Geoff** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:11 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Are you kidding? Those allegations were made public... during the campaign. They were debunked repeatedly but that didn't stop Trump and his sychophants screaming about it. Want to know who's foundation has admitted to wrong doing, is currently under-investigation and that has tried to be closed by its owner? That's right.

What specifically was debunked?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:22 am

Geoff wrote:What specifically was debunked?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... tons-meet/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:31 am

I don't recall seeing anything about Trump liking watersports during the campaign, although maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldn't trust Clinton or Trump in all honesty, I think they're as bad as each other, but the Yanks have made their choice rightly or wrongly.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:37 am

always wondered why his hair was that colour.

Acting Claret · Post by **Acting Claret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:44 am

The Americans love him, they want change and they've got it!

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:55 am

Acting Claret wrote:The Americans love him, they want change and they've got it!

I beg to differ! 50% of the country is terrified

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:06 am

Sidney1st wrote:I don't recall seeing anything about Trump liking watersports during the campaign, although maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldn't trust Clinton or Trump in all honesty, I think they're as bad as each other, but the Yanks have made their choice rightly or wrongly.

Like I said, Mother Jones didn't publish the details of the dossier but they still reported on it which is what i linked for you.

And the "as bad as each other" argument is just lazy. There was plenty of things wrong with Clinton but she wasn't anything close to Trump when it comes to corruption. The Republicans have been trying to get her for decades, and if they can't find disqualifying corruption in all that time then perhaps there's nothing to find. Meanwhile Trump has been found to be corrupt, he even admitted it with his foundation. He's even admitted to buying influence with politicians. But the Republicans screamed "but her emails" and "Benghazi" enough times to effectively swiftboat her.

But she lost, so she's done. The strategy worked, as it did with Kerry, and we all have to deal with the consequences. One of which is having Trump's secrets and corruptions brought to light by America's geopolitical enemies in what will be a successful attempt to embarrass the U.S. So move on from Clinton. She's not a problem. Trump is the President-Elect and he's who will be embarrassing the U.S. in the near future so i suggest you just sit back and enjoy it.

"I told you so" is going to be the phrase of 2017.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:09 am

Acting Claret wrote:The Americans love him, they want change and they've got it!

His approval rating is at 37%

LongsideFacingUp · Post by **LongsideFacingUp** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:25 am

Oh oh oh.

This just in....

I'm getting unconfirmed reports that ImplodingTurtle dresses up in swimwear and interferes with animals in his free time.

I must clarify that this is unconfirmed at the moment but I have a very trustworthy source who never lies and is going to go and get the evidence and bring it back very soon. So you can take this to the bank.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:32 am

So what are you implying IT that Trump will be controlled by the Kremlin as opposed to Clinton being controlled by the Waspish establishment (big business et al).

Also I will assume - if that hotel had surveillance cameras and microphones etc. - that the Kremlin will also have compromising stuff on the Obamas'.

i wonder why they haven't used it yet?

And I agree with the poster above Politicians are almost exclusively (Not Knunts as they are far to useful!!) self-serving sociopaths. And some are worse.

ClaretKent · Post by **ClaretKent** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:36 am

Putin on the Ritz ?

Geoff · Post by **Geoff** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:37 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... tons-meet/

Right, so this debunks the statement made by Mike Pence was factually incorrect but not some of the pay for play allegations that arose from email leaks.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:47 am

Would be ace if its true, but I doubt it is.

If it is made up, then its not a very smart move by Trumps opponents. Made up stuff is his speciality and will eventually cause him problems

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:50 am

But Putin saying its all made up isn't helping his case.

When Putin flatly denies stuff, the evidence is normally there to prove that he is lying.

This could get interesting!

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:56 am

Maybe of interest:

4Chan Claims To Have Fabricated Anti-Trump Report As A Hoax

"In a story that is getting more surreal by the minute, a post on 4Chan now claims that the infamous "golden showers" scene in the unverified 35-page dossier, allegedly compiled by a British intelligence officer, was a hoax and fabricated by a member of the chatboard as "fanfiction", then sent to Rick Wilson, who proceeded to send it to the CIA, which then put it in their official classified intelligence report on the election...."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-1 ... eport-hoax" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is 4Chan's explanation of how the story came to light:

>/pol/acks mailed fanfiction to anti-trump pundit Rick Wilson about trump making people **** on a bed obama slept in
>he thought it was real and gave it to the CIA
>the central intelligence agency of the united states of america put this in their official classified intelligence report on russian involvement in the election
>donald trump and obama have both read this pol/acks fanfiction
>the cia has concluded that the russian plans to blackmail trump with this story we made up
just let that sink in what we have become.

...While this entire incident is laughable, and even more so if the 4Chan account is accurate, what makes it quite tragic, is that it is no longer possible to dismiss the "fake news" angle to an intelligence report. And if the CIA is compromised, what is left for "news outlets" like CNN and BuzzFeed, which were all too eager to run with the story without any attempt at verification?

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:57 am

Corky wrote:So what are you implying IT that Trump will be controlled by the Kremlin as opposed to Clinton being controlled by the Waspish establishment (big business et al).

One of these is worse than the other.

Corky wrote:Also I will assume - if that hotel had surveillance cameras and microphones etc. - that the Kremlin will also have compromising stuff on the Obamas'.

I agree, the first thing the Obamas would have done would have been to fill the room with prostitutes for a p*ss show, you can just tell by looking at them.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:57 am

My reply to that would be the tweets by Donald Trump claiming that President Obamas birth certificate is fabricated.

You reap what you sow

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:58 am

Thing is Lucs86 is that those sorts of people look at the Obamas and can only see one thing.

LongsideFacingUp · Post by **LongsideFacingUp** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:02 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:My reply to that would be the tweets by Donald Trump claiming that President Obamas birth certificate is fabricated.

You reap what you sow

This is the only thing about this saga that's a fair dig at Trump.

Getting bitten by an unverified, made up scandal does feel like karma for the Obama passport nonsense.

MrTopTier · Post by **MrTopTier** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:03 am

I have nothing serious to add to the debate.

So here's a joke instead.

What's the difference between a Lentil and Chickpea?

Donald Trump didn't pay to have a lentil on his face.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:29 am

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:I beg to differ! 50% of the country is terrified

I also beg to differ, since Trump didn't even get 50% in the election.
Statistically a majority of Americans opposed him at he ballot box, and there will be many others - who for whatever reason did not or could not vote, who oppose him.
Indeed there are probably a significant number of Republicans who voted for him because he was "their" candidate, but don't support him personally.
As someone else posted, his approval rating is 37% - still alarmingly high.

Acting Claret · Post by **Acting Claret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:38 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:His approval rating is at 37%

They need to change their voting system then.

Acting Claret · Post by **Acting Claret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:43 am

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:I beg to differ! 50% of the country is terrified

Then they have the 42% of eligible voters who didn't vote to thank for the situation. That's 90 million people.
Same argument for remainers here. 13 million didn't vote one way or the other.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:58 am

Given the manner in which Trump treats women he doesn't know, that he has only been in politics for a couple of years, his previous for extra marital affairs, the type of people he would be associating with in Moscow, on the balance of probabilities, do you think he has availed himself of the services of some of the top top quality escorts that work in Moscow?

If not, why!!

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:04 pm

Acting Claret wrote:Then they have the 42% of eligible voters who didn't vote to thank for the situation. That's 90 million people.
Same argument for remainers here. 13 million didn't vote one way or the other.

Not the same as the referendum at all. A large number of people genuinely didn't know which way to vote in the EU referendum because of all the complexities, misinformation and contradictions on both sides.
There wasn't a "don't know" option on the ballot paper, so unless you "spoilt your paper" or actually wrote "don't know" on it then the honest choice was to abstain. I know quite a number of people who didn't vote because they said they didn't have enough information or couldn't decide.
There should have been a "Don't know"option in my opinion and then your point would be valid. Not voting IMO was a better option than going along and basically making a random uninformed choice.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:46 pm

Lancasterclaret

"But Putin saying its all made up isn't helping his case.

When Putin flatly denies stuff, the evidence is normally there to prove that he is lying."

Evidence please.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:51 pm

Ukraine?

Syria?

Doping at Sochi?

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:52 pm

bluelabrador16 wrote:Evidence please.

“I can tell you outright and unequivocally that there are no Russian troops in Ukraine.” - Putin

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderic ... 32e368a0f8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_m ... in_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%93present" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31794523" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and more

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:50 pm

As amusing as it all is... why now? If you wanted to leak this to discredit Trump then why not before he was elected?

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:00 pm

It's times like this that I always go by my favourite Abraham Lincoln quote of "don't believe everything you read on the internet"

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:14 pm

Alan Beswick had it right when somebody rang up and started talking about Donald Trump. He said why should we care, he's American.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:23 pm

Alan Beswick has never been the brightest though has he?

I mean, what possible influence on us could the President of the most powerful country on the planet have?

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:34 pm

Oh get over yourself, whoever is elected over there the world still goes on. This obsession with the American president by some of you is pathetic. We cant do anything about it so why do you care? Does American policy extend to Lancaster now?
If we had a vote fair enough, but we dont so for pitys sake get a bloody grip. Dont wet your panties over him.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:23 pm

bluelabrador16 wrote:Maybe of interest:

I always suspected you were a /pol/ack blue

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:44 pm

If you genuinely believe that mate, then crack on.

Pardon me for having an interest that you don't have.

Cajun · Post by **Cajun** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:53 pm

Nothing would surprise me about Trump. who shows daily that he lives in his own version of reality -- after all, this is a guy who had among his friends "The Billionaire Pedo" Jeff Epstein who was convicted of sex crimes against minors in 2008 despite Trump speaking up for him and is known to have attended many of his notorious parties in the 90s; this is a guy who has faced multiple rape charges and avoided them going to court through huge out of court payoffs or threats (as recently as last month). The majority of people here in the US do not want him to be president, and there is genuine anxiety that the global environment is now doomed, and that the risk of global conflict is now much greater.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:15 pm

Some hope that its not going to be Isolationist USA from the Rex Tillerson

"Our Nato allies are right to be alarmed at a resurgent Russia,"

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:47 pm

Also on Buzzfeed.
This news about Trump.
You lefties were right all along

grapidianclaret · Post by **grapidianclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:02 pm

[quote="Sidney1st"]If Hilary had won the election would all the allegations about her and that foundation be investigated and dug up?

Are you seriously asking that question?
Seriously?
I mean really seriously asking THAT question?

grapidianclaret · Post by **grapidianclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:04 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:always wondered why his hair was that colour.

His hair?
Apparently he is that color from the waist up

grapidianclaret · Post by **grapidianclaret** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:08 pm

[quote="Corky"]So what are you implying IT that Trump will be controlled by the Kremlin as opposed to Clinton being controlled by the Waspish establishment (big business et al).

Also I will assume - if that hotel had surveillance cameras and microphones etc. - that the Kremlin will also have compromising stuff on the Obamas'.

i wonder why they haven't used it yet?

What the hell are you talking about? Do you think that if Obama had anything out of the norm to hide from his entire life to this point, that it would not have been used repeatedly?

With that attitude, you may qualify to vote in the next American presidential election.