Trump/Russia Dossier

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:39 pm

So was Cohen lying when he said Trump had no knowledge of the ( lawful) meeting or will he be lying when he says he did ?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:48 pm

FCBurnley wrote:So was Cohen lying when he said Trump had no knowledge of the ( lawful) meeting or will he be lying when he says he did ?

If he testifies under oath I'll believe him. Until then he's just another trump bullshitter getting burned by Trump, as they all do in the end.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:22 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Aberdeen 1 Burnley 1 in the real world

Wrong thread mate. Its not f*ckin hard to stay away from these threads if youre not interested.

Reckon you must a few bricks short if you cant help but post on a topic you seemingly dont care about

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:35 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Wrong thread mate. Its not f*ckin hard to stay away from these threads if youre not interested.

Reckon you must a few bricks short if you cant help but post on a topic you seemingly dont care about

He's a funny one. I once wished him well when a hurricane threatened to hit where he lived and he flipped out at me for it.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:57 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He's a funny one. I once wished him well when a hurricane threatened to hit where he lived and he flipped out at me for it.

in your uniquely ambiguous way. It did prompt an amusing flurry of replies though.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:54 pm

Slight Tangent.....Quite interesting and entertaining

America...Socialist dystopia?

"Is democratic socialism the future of the Democratic Party, the future of the US? Is moving to the left a winning strategy to take on Donald Trump’s vision of conservative populism? One thing is undeniable – mainstream politics in both political parties are under pressure to evolve and become more accountable."

CrossTalking with Peter Lavelle, Steve Malzberg, Ivan Eland, and Ron Placone.

https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/4344 ... .....24.49" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:48 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Anybody know who is paying for Cohens legal team. His new lawyer is called Lanny Davis. Look him up

Are you gonna expand on this, or do you have no point?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:52 pm

The author of the dossier had a lawsuit against him thrown out of court today.
Oh, and Trump's former personal lawyer has reached a plea deal and will be going to prison.

So, for anyone keeping score, this "rigged witch hunt" the cheeto Mussolini keeps whining about has resulted in: former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser George Papadopolous pleading guilty to lying to the FBI about Russia contacts. Former campaign aide Rick Gates pleading guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiracy. Trumps former national security adviser pleading guilty to lying to the FBI about Russia contacts. 12 Russian officers indicted relating to hacking and leaking emails in an attempt to help Trump. 13 other Russians and 3 companies indicted on conspiracy charges relating to ID theft and interference in the 2016 election. And now Michael Cohen, Trump's "fixer", is about to plead guilty to a bunch of crimes.

But we've to be assured that Trump did nothing wrong and is squeaky clean. That's why he won't release his tax returns and is scared shitless about this investigation.

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

Edit: FCBurnley, is this what you had in mind when you were voting for Trump to Drain the Swamp™?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:00 pm

Thing is, if you support Trump and his type of politics, then this is all okay.

I can't think of a bigger danger to democracy than that to be honest.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:03 pm

And Manafort has just been found guilty on 8 charges. hung jury on 10 other charges.

The charges he was found guilty on according to NBC News were "five counts of tax fraud, one count of failing to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts and two counts of bank fraud".

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:07 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Thing is, if you support Trump and his type of politics, then this is all okay.

I can't think of a bigger danger to democracy than that to be honest.

It's all very entertaining though. Kinda like Brexit. We've ****** up democracy already, there's no coming back from the levels of wilful ignorance the US and UK publics have, the only thing we can do now is just enjoy the descent.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:08 pm

https://twitter.com/business/status/1032006873891958784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wonder who that could be!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:14 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:https://twitter.com/business/status/1032006873891958784

Wonder who that could be!

Hilary. Obviously.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:14 pm

Clearly Clinton

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:16 pm

I'm going for Obama

He must have mined the "Blame Hilary for everything" MIne dry by now surely?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:19 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm going for Obama

He must have mined the "Blame Hilary for everything" MIne dry by now surely?

If true this might be finally a bigger scandal than that time he wore a tan-coloured suit.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:22 pm

Looks like someone’s had a kick in the vagina today again.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:23 pm

The Watergate downfall didn't happen overnight, but once it all started to unravel, there's was no stopping it.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:26 pm

Top stories:

MSNBC: Manafort convicted on 8 counts of bank fraud, tax fraud.
CNN: Manafort found guilty on 8 counts
WaPo: Cohen says he worked to silence 2 women before 2016 election ‘in coordination’ with Trump
NYT: Paul Manafort Is Convicted on Multiple Counts of Fraud
Fox News: Mollie Tibbetts’ suspected killer identified as 24-year-old illegal immigrant

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:26 pm

He’s got one of his rallies tonight apparently. He’ll feed them what they want to hear.
Good luck to any of the press covering it. He might just be stepping it up.

LongsideFacingUp · Post by **LongsideFacingUp** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:26 pm

Aaaaaaaaaaaany day now...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:29 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:The Watergate downfall didn't happen overnight, but once it all started to unravel, there's was no stopping it.

All The President's Men is worth rewatching.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:29 pm

YES! Trump is ****ed...
*COHEN SAYS HE VIOLATED CAMPAIGN LAW AT DIRECTION OF CANDIDATE
*COHEN SAYS HE ACTED FOR PURPOSE OF INFLUENCING ELECTION
*COHEN: VIOLATED CAMPAIGN LAW AT DIRECTION OF CANDIDATE

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:31 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:He’s got one of his rallies tonight apparently. He’ll feed them what they want to hear.
Good luck to any of the press covering it. He might just be stepping it up.

He'll have to do or say something pretty spectacular to distract from today's events. He's capable of it though. He likes to have the crowd direct hate towards journalists in attendance reporting on his rallies. I'd hate to be one of those reporters attending tonight.

Edit: He's gonna instruct Rosenstein to fire Mueller eventually, and fire him when he refuses. For poetry i hope he does it on a Saturday night.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:32 pm

LongsideFacingUp wrote:Aaaaaaaaaaaany day now...

This is so cute. Bless.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:32 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:The Watergate downfall didn't happen overnight, but once it all started to unravel, there's was no stopping it.

I suspect Mueller is now going to get Trump for multiple things.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:40 pm

Multiple User Names in a bit of a frenzy this evening

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Can you imagine such a pursuit of justice in Russia ? Pair of them stink.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:57 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Multiple User Names in a bit of a frenzy this evening

Which ones?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:50 pm

FCBurnley wrote:So was Cohen lying when he said Trump had no knowledge of the ( lawful) meeting or will he be lying when he says he did ?

Imploding Turtle wrote:If he testifies under oath I'll believe him. Until then he's just another trump bullshitter getting burned by Trump, as they all do in the end.

He was under oath. And he'll be under oath when he testifies about Trump's knowledge of Trump's collusion with Russia to interfere in the US election.

"Lanny Davis, the attorney representing President Donald Trump's former longtime personal lawyer Michael Cohen, said Wednesday that Cohen knew of efforts by Trump to conspire with Russia to corrupt the 2016 presidential election."

https://nordic.businessinsider.com/lann ... ?r=US&IR=T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again, i'll believe him when he testifies under oath. Will you? In fact, what is your opinion of all this? If Trump did know about it and did nothing to stop it such as reporting it to the FBI would you like to see him impeached? What level of guilt does Trump need to have before you'll flip your support from him to against him?

LaLigaClaret · Post by **LaLigaClaret** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:48 pm

Or maybe Cohen has squealed like a stuck pig because he was promised a minimal or even no prison sentence for implicating the President. How strange he is not going to be sentenced until December just after the Mid-Terms ? Still no actual evidence on Collusion with Russia yet maybe because there isn't any. Paying someone not to disclose something which might morally damage them isn't actually an offence in the US. Makes you wonder why Cohen would admit to guilt on breaking Election laws.

It could well be that it will come down to Cohen's word against Donald Trump's word and can you rely on the word of a guilty convicted man such as Cohen. Perhaps he taped conversations with Trump but then again Trump seems very confident there is no evidence against him. There is still the issue of why there has been no action taken against Hillary Clinton for breaking the law in defying a court order and openly admitting to destroying the evidence. Still seems like a witch hunt against Trump.

The other issue is this, does anyone seriously believe that any alleged Russian interference in the US elections through fake social media postings actually had any effect in determining the outcome ? Propaganda has been used by lots of institutions, politicians and campaigners ever since politics has existed. You only have to see the relentless campaign by the Democratic leaning media against Trump to see that it has little or no effect because he still won and is still in place. I think he will still be President until the end of his term or terms and he will not be found guilty of criminal offences after this has ended.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:55 pm

Welcome to the board Donald

Twitter gone down or something?

Rumbletonk · Post by **Rumbletonk** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:14 am

I thought we'd all be dead in 6 months when he got elected. It's not happened, phew! I hate being told to hate someone because they hate people though. His presidency has had zero impact on the way we live our lives in the UK other than the fact some people are batshit angry about other people not being as angry

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:52 am

Edit: Since i posted this reply Trump has actually confessed, again, on TV to committing the crime he's accused of. But because he's so stupid he thinks it's a defence, not a confession.

Trump’s own defense, offered on Fox & Friends, is even more confused. Trump insisted he is in the clear because the payments “weren’t taken out of campaign finance … They didn’t come out of the campaign, they came from me.”

That is not a defense. That is why it’s a crime. If the money came from the campaign, it would have been legal.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... stake.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

---------------

LaLigaClaret wrote:Or maybe Cohen has squealed like a stuck pig because he was promised a minimal or even no prison sentence for implicating the President.

Funny since there's no plea agreement in place, which there would have to be for Cohen to be permitted a reduced sentence. But more likely is that he pleaded guilty to crimes he knew he has committed, and will now cooperate with Mueller to minimise his prison time. There's nothing wrong with that.

How strange he is not going to be sentenced until December just after the Mid-Terms ? Still no actual evidence on Collusion with Russia yet maybe because there isn't any. Paying someone not to disclose something which might morally damage them isn't actually an offence in the US. Makes you wonder why Cohen would admit to guilt on breaking Election laws.

Not that strange at all. If he's leveraging his knowledge to reduce his sentence then it makes sense that he'll be sentenced after his knowledge has been gleaned.
Also, why do your goalposts have wheels on them? Cohen hasn't pleaded guilty to paying someone to keep quiet. He's pleaded guilty to felony campaign finance violations, but you knew that, you're just trying to obfuscate just like your boy Trump is doing when he claims that "collusion isn't a crime".

It could well be that it will come down to Cohen's word against Donald Trump's word and can you rely on the word of a guilty convicted man such as Cohen.

If he's a co-conspirator he's a worthy witness, but i wouldn't want to be building a case around him. More likely is that his knowledge will be used to advance the investigation. Just like Rick Gates' information against Manafort when he committed crimes with Manafort, but the prosecution didn't want to build their case around such a crook. So here you kind of have a point, but that doesn't mean what he says can be discounted, especially if/when Cohen or Mueller can corroborate Cohen's claims.

Perhaps he taped conversations with Trump but then again Trump seems very confident there is no evidence against him.

Trump is a compulsive liar and con man. His career is based on feigning confidence. I trust Cohen's word under oath more than Trump's perceived confidence.

There is still the issue of why there has been no action taken against Hillary Clinton for breaking the law in defying a court order and openly admitting to destroying the evidence. Still seems like a witch hunt against Trump.

Hillary Clinton was investigated for about 20 years. Including the Benghazi bullshit where the Republican's repeatedly and shamelessly tried to pin the blame for the deaths of 4 Americans on Hillary Clinton for nothing more than partisan gain to make her a weaker presidential candidate. She sat in front of the house committee for 11 hours answering questions and listening to insults.
More than that she was investigated by the FBI for how long over the email controversy for which no charges were brought because it was decided that doing so would be really stupid. She was rightly given a very public dressing down for her irresponsibility, and then Comey handed Trump a massive boost in the election by publicly announcing he's reopening the investigation a week before the election. And then found nothing new.

Now i'm not saying Clinton was/is an angel, she isn't, but if you want to talk about witch-hunts take a look at the **** the Republican's have tried to pin on her over the years. Uranium One is a good and hilarious place to start.

The other issue is this, does anyone seriously believe that any alleged Russian interference in the US elections through fake social media postings actually had any effect in determining the outcome ? Propaganda has been used by lots of institutions, politicians and campaigners ever since politics has existed. You only have to see the relentless campaign by the Democratic leaning media against Trump to see that it has little or no effect because he still won and is still in place. I think he will still be President until the end of his term or terms and he will not be found guilty of criminal offences after this has ended.

Is this really all you think the Russians did? Some social media posts? They hacked the DNC and stole emails. They then disseminated them in a way to help Trump get elected.
Do you know what the Watergate scandal was about? Thieves breaking into the DNC headquarters to steal documents and Nixon covering up his campaign's involvement. This is the exact same crime, but more hi-tech and involving a foreign adversary.
How is it that after over a year of this being investigated you're still this ignorant of the central premise of the investigation?

Trump is ******. Just based on what's in the public sphere he's clearly already guilty of obstruction of justice (he ******* admitted it already, lol) which is what Nixon was about to be removed from office for before he resigned, so just imagine what else Mueller knows that we don't. His investigation has been remarkable in that nothing has been leaking from it, which is partly why Trump has been able to get away with claiming there's no smoking gun evidence of "collusion" because as far as we know there isn't any smoking gun. Not that there needs to be smoking gun evidence of course, overwhelming circumstantial evidence will be enough to convict such a crook beyond any reasonable doubt. Although him admitting to firing Comey because of his Russia investigation is pretty direct evidence that he knowingly committed a crime that one president was impeached over, and another resigned over in the last 50 years.

So go on with your weird conspiracy theories about how Comey might be lying, or that is suspicious how his sentencing is deferred until after the election. Or your attempt to diminish the seriousness of the election interference by choosing to be ignorant regarding what actually happened. We already know enough to reasonably conclude that trump is guilty as sin because innocent people don't wilfully commit crimes in order to prevent an investigation into something they claim they had nothing to do with.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:29 am

LaLigaClaret wrote:Trump seems very confident there is no evidence against him.

Surely nobody in their right mind thinks Trump is coming across as confident in all this farce?

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:58 am

Whatever your views are on Donald Trump, it's hard to deny that the last couple of days have been fascinating to witness.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:45 pm

According to a Fox News reporter Trump's considering pardoning Paul Manafort.

"considering", as if he hasn't already received his orders to pardon him.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:48 pm

Not sure even the teflon tosspot can weather this one.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:15 pm

The other issue is this, does anyone seriously believe that any alleged Russian interference in the US elections through fake social media postings actually had any effect in determining the outcome ? Propaganda has been used by lots of institutions, politicians and campaigners ever since politics has existed. You only have to see the relentless campaign by the Democratic leaning media against Trump to see that it has little or no effect because he still won and is still in place. I think he will still be President until the end of his term or terms and he will not be found guilty of criminal offences after this has ended.[/quote]

Excellent, balanced informed post. This is all nothing short of a conspiracy to take down a democratically elected President. I predict a declassified FISA application from Trump just before the November election to expose the corrupt and criminal origins of this fiasco.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:18 pm

Excellent, balanced informed post from LaLigaClaret. This is all nothing short of a conspiracy to take down a democratically elected President. I predict a declassified FISA application from Trump just before the November election to expose the corrupt and criminal origins of this fiasco.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:38 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:According to a Fox News reporter Trump's considering pardoning Paul Manafort. "considering", as if he hasn't already received his orders to pardon him.

His orders from who?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:53 pm

Chobulous wrote:His orders from who?

His supervisor, Mr Putin.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:55 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Excellent, balanced informed post from LaLigaClaret. This is all nothing short of a conspiracy to take down a democratically elected President. I predict a declassified FISA application from Trump just before the November election to expose the corrupt and criminal origins of this fiasco.

Remember when you predicted that the IG report would exonerate him? Cos i remember. It made me laugh when you ignored it after it did nothing of the sort.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:58 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:The other issue is this, does anyone seriously believe that any alleged Russian interference in the US elections through fake social media postings actually had any effect in determining the outcome ? Propaganda has been used by lots of institutions, politicians and campaigners ever since politics has existed. You only have to see the relentless campaign by the Democratic leaning media against Trump to see that it has little or no effect because he still won and is still in place. I think he will still be President until the end of his term or terms and he will not be found guilty of criminal offences after this has ended.

This right here is why no one respects you. I already addressed this fallacy that all they did was make social media posts and here you are still believing it.

Not only did the Russians hack into the DNC and release documents they stole to help Trump win, they also hacked voting rolls and machines. And if you think that all they did was hack those machines and then do nothing one they were in then you're even dumber than the typical Trump supporter/apologist/appeaser.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:01 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:His supervisor, Mr Putin.

You may be right about that, but it seems to me that Trump is now beyond all control. He knows that whatever he does, however outlandish his actions become, his supporters will continue to back him. They still believe he will deliver full employment in a blue collar, all white paradise.
He is so entrenched among them that Putin can say or do nothing that will affect that. Whatever the revelation they just won't believe it. Even Bill Maher will get tired eventually.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:23 pm

Chobulous wrote:You may be right about that, but it seems to me that Trump is now beyond all control. He knows that whatever he does, however outlandish his actions become, his supporters will continue to back him. They still believe he will deliver full employment in a blue collar, all white paradise.
He is so entrenched among them that Putin can say or do nothing that will affect that. Whatever the revelation they just won't believe it. Even Bill Maher will get tired eventually.

It's all fascinating to me. Whatever happens next I can't wait to see the movies that will be made about it all. There are some great movies of a similar vein that I've enjoyed, All The President's Men, Truth, The Post, Good Night and Good Luck, Frost/Nixon, Game Change and probably a few others but i think a movie about all this has the potential to surpass them all.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:37 pm

Too far fetched, nobody would believe it.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:22 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:This right here is why no one respects you. I already addressed this fallacy that all they did was make social media posts and here you are still believing it.

Not only did the Russians hack into the DNC and release documents they stole to help Trump win, they also hacked voting rolls and machines. And if you think that all they did was hack those machines and then do nothing one they were in then you're even dumber than the typical Trump supporter/apologist/appeaser.

So now you speak for everybody on this board? Let me remind you that, in the past, you have quoted the discredited dossier about Cohen being in Czechoslovakia (something even Cohen's lawyer categorically refuted yesterday). And did n't you say "Trump is actually trying to start a war with North Korea?" Now you're telling us, without any evidence, that the Russians hacked the voting machines. Do you work for CNN?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:26 pm

Amazing

I think you need to check out what the FBI and the CIA are saying about that.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:37 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:So now you speak for everybody on this board?

Why are you restricting my influence to just this board?

Let me remind you that, in the past, you have quoted the discredited dossier about Cohen being in Czechoslovakia (something even Cohen's lawyer categorically refuted yesterday). And did n't you say "Trump is actually trying to start a war with North Korea?" Now you're telling us, without any evidence, that the Russians hacked the voting machines. Do you work for CNN?

In what way has the dossier been discredited? Post me a story that proves than something included in the dossier didn't happen.

The truth is it hasn't been discredited, you're just swallowing the right-wing media that keeps parroting the lie that it has been discredited.

I fully expect some things in the dossier to be disproved in the future, particularly when Mueller releases his findings, because it wasn't a list of facts, it was a compilation of intelligence some of which won't be accurate. But as well as some of it being untrue i'm certain that large portions of it will be found to be accurate.

So please, find me something that discredits the whole dossier, or even find me many things that discredit it if you like. If you're that confident that it's been discredited and that you're not just swallowing what Fox News and is feeding you. If not then wipe your chin and just watch how your boy suffers a very public and humiliating fall. I promise i won't rub it in your face too much.