Trump/Russia Dossier

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:37 am

The flynn sentencing memo is out in the last few minutes and according to Natasha Bertrand the memo indicates that Flynn was so helpful that for lying to the FBI he might not get a sentence that includes immediate incarceration. Oh boy, i wonder what he gave Mueller that was so good.

It's also redacted all the ****, which sucks but does mean there's an awful lot still to come.

"Given the defendant’s substantial assistance and other considerations set forth below, a sentence at the low end of the guideline range—including a sentence that does not impose a term of incarceration—is appropriate and warranted."

Edit: over 19 meetings Flynn has provided information on three seperate investigations. The Special Counsel investigation si one of them, a separate criminal investigation is another but the details of which have been entirely redacted, and another investigation that is so redacted that the memo doesn't even say whether it's a criminal one or not.

I'd guess one of them is the Gulen kidnapping plot.

Edit: Rachel Maddow just reminded everyone that Peter Smith, before he killed himself, told associates and invesors that while he was seeking Russian hackers for his operation Michael Flynn and his son were helping with that. So that could also be one of the separate investigations. Or it might be bundled in with the Special Counsel investigation.

Another Edit: Journalists are very clever.

https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/statu ... 8735365120" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:13 am

Any person who supports framing jailing and ruining the lives and families of trump associates to force them to lie about him should hold their heads in pure shame ..

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:46 am

SmudgetheClaret wrote:Any person who supports framing jailing and ruining the lives and families of trump associates to force them to lie about him should hold their heads in pure shame ..

yeah. All these people pleading guilty are actually innocent, ain't that right? It's all the work of the (((Deep State))) working to cover up a murder and Hillary Clinton's paedophile ring from a pizza restaurant's basement.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:00 am

He's got to be a parody account surely?

No one (outside of the mid west of the USA) is this out of touch?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:50 am

Russian agent Maria Butina has flipped and accepted a plea and cooperation agreement.

This is particularly bad news for the NRA who donated millions in cash and ad campaigns to the Trump campaign, thanks to Russian money.

And Trump? Well, he just happened to, by pure coincidence no doubt, invite this Russian agent to ask him a question at FreedomFest 2015. And by pure coincidence that question just happened to be on Russian sanctions which Trump happened to oppose. Now i'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Trump Tower Moscow project couldn't legally go ahead while those sanctions are in place which reportedly would have earned him hundreds of millions of dollars. And i'm sure it's a coincidence that Flynn lied about his Russia contacts to the FBI, and that Sessions lied to congress about his Russia contacts during the transition, both in relation to sanctions.
And i'm sure that it's just a coincidence that Manafort was hired by Trump as campaign manager (heavily in debt yet takes this job without pay) and then the only language changed in the Republican platform at their conference was the softening of language regarding Russia and Ukraine.

But isn't it amazing that someone like BlueLab, who sees conspiracies theories everywhere based on, for example, Mueller choosing to release a document or a court filing just before Trump meets Putin, yet thinks that with all these "coincidences" sees absolutely nothing, and calls any of us who say this stuff needs investigating "Russophobes"?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/maria-b ... d=59719083" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's Trump directly communicating with the Russian operative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fp1TioaLcg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:37 pm

Aaron Maté

"Butina isn’t being treated as a spy... she's accused only of unofficial diplomacy and lobbying at conferences, dinners and other events that were by no means clandestine.

"

Jeremy Granade

"AIPAC and Saudi funded think tanks in Washington do far more to try to influence elections in the U.S. and are far more successful."

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1 ... 4488301569" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
‏
The Maria Butina Case Is Not About Spying

Why did U.S. authorities bother to pursue a Russian gun-rights activist for activities they could easily have ignored? The answer should worry you.

Leonid Bershidsky

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... ian-spying" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:40 pm

No one's saying she was a spy. You're arguing against something not being claimed. Well done.

And if you think Saudi influence isn't featuring somewhere in an investigation then you're deluded.

As for AIPAC funding and influencing the election - they're an American organisation. That's perfectly fine. Oh, except that they're pro-Jewish which is really the problem you have with them.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:50 pm

Uwe Noble wrote: NOT MARIA BUTINA!!!! It's clearly over for Trump when heavyweights like this are co-operating.

Hey. Not seen you in a while. Whatever happened to that IG report that was going to expose how the FBI were in the tank for Clinton. Came out in March or May didn't it? You were so looking forward to it. Whatever happened?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:54 pm

Turns out that Trump's inauguration fund, which was funded corruptly, was being over-charged by Trump hotels for their services. And Ivanka Trump was who "negotiated" the price.

The corruption is just everywhere.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:45 pm

Don’t Let Russophobia Warp the Facts on Russiagate .......

Despite the media hoopla, Mueller’s latest filings do not bring us any closer to proving the long-sought Trump-Russia conspiracy.

Aaron Maté

"...But Mueller has not issued any charges, provided any evidence, or made any collusion allegations. If there does exist a case, Mueller hasn’t revealed it yet. For all of the excitement, what has been disclosed in the cases of Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, and Michael Flynn does not bring us any closer to the long-sought Trump-Russia conspiracy....

The only Russia-related criminal activity comes in Cohen’s lies to Congress about the effort to build a Trump Tower in Moscow, a failure that never got beyond a letter of intent. This is why Mueller portrays the development as entirely prospective, and in the conditional tense. ....

Flynn, Cohen, and Manafort are among the 14 Trump associates tallied up by The Washington Post who “interacted” with Russian nationals “over the course of Donald Trump’s 18-month campaign for the presidency.” To the former US ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul, the contacts are “extremely unusual.” But as the Post itself acknowledges, Mueller “has not yet shown that any of the dozens of interactions between people in Trump’s orbit and Russians resulted in any specific coordination between his presidential campaign and Russia.”

It is perhaps unusual then that merely having contact with a Russian passport holder is deemed suspect. A stark illustration of that xenophobic mentality has come with the newly resolved prosecution of Russian pro-gun activist and graduate student Maria Butina.....

https://www.thenation.com/article/russi ... ler-trump/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comment:

"Thank you again for some respite from the mass psychosis that most the MSM and many fellow anti-Trumpers have been exhibiting.
As usual, your work is concise and enriching."

Jack Riddler

"Aaron Maté again ties the latest (Cohen, Butina, Manafort) together into an increasingly compelling picture: plenty of crimes, very little #Russiagate, a lot of xenophobia and Cold War propaganda. Meanwhile, a new non-Russian front opens with the investigation of Trump Org's plunder of the Trump inauguration fund, run by Ivanka. The reality manages to be utterly pedestrian and beyond-crazy at the same time. The family engaged in the business model they've always pursued, through several generations, scamming their way into cash and making it disappear into their own pockets. Until 2016 it was done always with impunity and chutzpah. I get that those who win a rigged game get stupid, but going into the White House did not cause them to adjust at all. They just kept doing it....."

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... &start=390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IT, why don't you just follow Aaron Mate

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1 ... gr%5Etweet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Hey. Not seen you in a while. Whatever happened to that IG report that was going to expose how the FBI were in the tank for Clinton. Came out in March or May didn't it? You were so looking forward to it. Whatever happened?

Good to be back. Second iG report out in new year. Big story will be Monday when Judge tosses Flynn case out.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:39 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Good to be back. Second iG report out in new year. Big story will be Monday when Judge tosses Flynn case out.

Why would a judge toss Flynn's case out? He pleaded guilty already.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:20 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Good to be back. Second iG report out in new year. Big story will be Monday when Judge tosses Flynn case out.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:16 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Why would a judge toss Flynn's case out? He pleaded guilty already.

. I think you'd plead guilty if the FBI was threatening your son with prosecution and you had to sell your house to pay your legal fees. The big issue is that Flynn was set up. The judge has demanded the 702 form recording the original interview and the FBI have nt provided it! It is suggested that it was edited because even Comey admitted the two agents thought Flynn was n't lying. No wonder they have been stalling on sentencing. And just where does this leave the whole Russian hoax? Mueller has nothing on Trump!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:21 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:. I think you'd plead guilty if the FBI was threatening your son with prosecution and you had to sell your house to pay your legal fees. The big issue is that Flynn was set up. The judge has demanded the 702 form recording the original interview and the FBI have nt provided it! It is suggested that it was edited because even Comey admitted the two agents thought he was n't lying. No wonder they have been stalling on sentencing. And just where dies thus leave the whole Russian hoax?

I can probably guess, but i'll let you link your source for this information. So, go on, provide your source. The two things I want from you are information that says Flynn was set up (he wasn't), and information that his son was threatened with prosecution

Also if you can provide something about this 702 form i'd be interested to read about that too.

By the way, let's pretend his son was threatened with prosecution. Prosecution for what? And does Flynn's cooperation agreement state that the FBI cannot prosecute his son?

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:46 pm

After two years Mueller's special counsel has not charged anyone, repeat anyone in the Trump admin. with conspiracy with Russia because it is all complete BS. Would you please confirm that central fact?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:27 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:After two years Mueller's special counsel has not charged anyone, repeat anyone in the Trump admin. with conspiracy with Russia because it is all complete BS. Would you please confirm that central fact?

No.

Answer my question from the previous post. (unless you can't, because you made it up)

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No.

Answer my question from the previous post. (unless you can't, because you made it up)

Wall St Journal editorial: "The Flynn Entrapment" ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-flynn- ... 1544658915" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Also, https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/w ... -flynn-302" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Now answer my question - who has been charged from the Trump admin. with conspiracy? I want the names.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:40 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Wall St Journal editorial: "The Flynn Entrapment". Now answer my question - who has been charged from the Trump admin. with conspiracy? I want the names.

There was no Flynn entrapment. Here's the article.

Of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s many targets, the most tragic may be former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. The former three-star general pleaded guilty last year to a single count of lying to the FBI about conversations he had with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S. Now we learn from Mr. Flynn’s court filing to the sentencing judge that senior bureau officials acted in a way to set him up for the fall.

Not a rich man after decades in uniform, Mr. Flynn pleaded guilty to avoid bankruptcy and spare his son from becoming a legal target. Mr. Flynn’s filing doesn’t take issue with the description of his offense. But the “additional facts” the Flynn defense team flags for the court raise doubts about FBI conduct.

The Flynn filing describes government documents concerning the Jan. 24, 2017 meeting with two FBI agents when Mr. Flynn supposedly lied. It turns out the meeting was set up by then Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe, who personally called Mr. Flynn that day on other business—to discuss an FBI training session. By Mr. McCabe’s account, on that call he told Mr. Flynn he “felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down” with him to talk about his Russia communications.

Mr. McCabe then urged Mr. Flynn to meet without a lawyer present. “I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Mr. Flynn] and the agents only. I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House Counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Mr. Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants,” wrote Mr. McCabe in a memo viewed by the Flynn defense team.

According to the FBI summary of the interview—known as a 302—Mr. McCabe and FBI officials “decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport.”

We also know from then FBI Director James Comey that this was his idea. This is “something I probably wouldn’t have done or wouldn’t have gotten away with in a more organized administration,” Mr. Comey boasted on MSNBC this weekend. “In the George W. Bush Administration or the Obama Administration, if the FBI wanted to send agents into the White House itself to interview a senior official, you would work through the White House counsel, there would be discussions and approvals and who would be there. And I thought, it’s early enough let’s just send a couple guys over.”

If the goal was to set a legal trap, it worked. The two agents showed up at the White House within hours of Mr. McCabe’s call, and they reported in the 302 that General Flynn had been “relaxed and jocular” and “clearly saw the FBI agents as allies.” One of the agents was Peter Strzok, who is famous for his anti-Trump texts to his FBI paramour.

The FBI agents had seen transcripts of Mr. Flynn’s conversations with the Russian ambassador that were “unmasked” by Obama Administration officials. The 302 says that rather than flag this and ask Mr. Flynn for an explanation, the FBI agents decided before the meeting that if “Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used, . . . to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said, . . . they would not confront him or talk him through it.”

Keep in mind the FBI’s counterintelligence probe into Russia and the Trump campaign was still secret. Mr. Flynn had done nothing wrong in conversing with the Russian ambassador—it was part of his job—and he had no reason to believe he was in legal jeopardy. He initially claimed he misremembered what was discussed, which is more believable than that a highly decorated officer would lie to FBI officers he agreed to see without counsel.

Mr. Flynn’s lawyers are requesting probation and community service, though the facts suggest the judge should question the entire plea deal. Messrs. McCabe and Strzok have both been fired for misconduct, and their behavior reeks of entrapment.

If he does nothing else, President Trump has an obligation to former aides like Michael Flynn and to the public to declassify and disclose the FBI documents related to the FBI’s Russia probe.

Nothing described in this article is a problem. Flynn wasn't under arrest so there was no requirement to read him his rights. He himself chose not to have Counsel present. He himself chose to lie to the FBI agents. That isn't entrapment. It is perfectly normal for law enforcement to ask an interviewee a question that it already knows the answer to. Flynn made the conscious choice to lie, no one else. He wasn't persuaded to lie by anyone.

The way this could have been entrapment is if the FBI offered to pay Flynn, or gave him some kind of incentive to lie, in order to prosecute him for lying. Did the FBI do anything like that? No. All they did was ask him a question they knew the answer to, and he chose to commit a crime instead of answering lawfully. Perfectly legal and perfectly normal.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:43 pm

So why is it called the Flynn Entrapment you numbskull? Now answer my question.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:43 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Wall St Journal editorial: "The Flynn Entrapment" ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-flynn- ... 1544658915" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Also, https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/w ... -flynn-302" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Now answer my question - who has been charged from the Trump admin. with conspiracy? I want the names.

There are sealed indictments, and no doubt indictments to come.

If there's not going to be any indictments for conspiracy, or obstruction, then you have nothing to worry about and the Mueller probe should be allowed to continue as normal.

But my bet is that every member of the Trump team that attended a meeting with the purpose of colluding with Russia to acquire information on Clinton will end up indicted. That's Manafort, Trump jr and Kushner. And I can't wait to rub it in your face.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:43 pm

Could someone pass me another of those tasty nothing burgers...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:44 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:So why is it called the Flynn Entrapment you numbskull? Now answer my question.

Because the Wall St Journal editorial board are extremely right wing and partisan. They and their op-eds are not remotely as credible as their journalists.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:45 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:Could someone pass me another of those tasty nothing burgers...

Uraniam One, coming right up.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:48 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:There are sealed indictments, and no doubt indictments to come.

If there's not going to be any indictments for conspiracy, or obstruction, then you have nothing to worry about and the Mueller probe should be allowed to continue as normal.

But my bet is that every member of the Trump team that attended a meeting with the purpose of colluding with Russia to acquire information on Clinton will end up indicted. That's Manafort, Trump jr and Kushner. And I can't wait to rub it in your face.

So the answer is NOBODY!!! And all your dissembling can't hide that fact. Now that's what I call a nothing burger!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:50 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:So the answer is NOBODY!!! And all your dissembling can't hide that fact. Now that's what I call a nothing burger!

Then what are you worried about? What is Trump worried about? I mean, if he's entirely innocent, and so is everyone in his campaign and administration, then why is he so frightened?

Just sit back and watch "nothing" happen.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:54 pm

ABC: "Did Roger Stone give the president a heads up on WikiLeaks' leaks concerning Clinton & the DNC?"

GIULIANI: "No he didn't... uh, *I don't believe so*. But again, if he did, it's not a crime."

It keeps shifting, doesn't it? It didn't happen. Ok, it did happen but Trump didn't do it/know about it. OK Trump did it/knew about it but it isn't a crime.
And you gullible idiots fall for it every time.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:55 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:There are sealed indictments, and no doubt indictments to come.

If there's not going to be any indictments for conspiracy, or obstruction, then you have nothing to worry about and the Mueller probe should be allowed to continue as normal.

But my bet is that every member of the Trump team that attended a meeting with the purpose of colluding with Russia to acquire information on Clinton will end up indicted. That's Manafort, Trump jr and Kushner. And I can't wait to rub it in your face.

What complete ********. You have not got a clue whose been indicted, if anybody. You're full of hot air.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:56 pm

STEPHANOPOULOS: So Cohen, prosecutors, a judge, & AMI all say hush payments were intended to help Trump's campaign

GIULIANI: Cohen is a serial liar & AMI just said that so they could get immunity. Anyway, hush payments aren't crimes.

Remember when Trump didn't make the hush payments? Then he did but didn't know about them? Then he knew about them but it's not a crime?
Every. *******. Time. You. Gullible. Fools.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:56 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:ABC: "Did Roger Stone give the president a heads up on WikiLeaks' leaks concerning Clinton & the DNC?"

GIULIANI: "No he didn't... uh, *I don't believe so*. But again, if he did, it's not a crime."

It keeps shifting, doesn't it? It didn't happen. Ok, it did happen but Trump didn't do it/know about it. OK Trump did it/knew about it but it isn't a crime.
And you gullible idiots fall for it every time.

Trivia.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:57 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:STEPHANOPOULOS: So Cohen, prosecutors, a judge, & AMI all say hush payments were intended to help Trump's campaign

GIULIANI: Cohen is a serial liar & AMI just said that so they could get immunity. Anyway, hush payments aren't crimes.

Remember when Trump didn't make the hush payments? Then he did but didn't know about them? Then he knew about them but it's not a crime?
Every. *******. Time. You. Gullible. Fools.

Russia? Conspiracy? Come back when you've got something serious.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Then what are you worried about? What is Trump worried about? I mean, if he's entirely innocent, and so is everyone in his campaign and administration, then why is he so frightened?

Just sit back and watch "nothing" happen.

I don't spend 24/7 on this message board spreading conspiracy theories.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:00 pm

"Did Donald Trump know that Michael Cohen was pursuing the Trump Tower in Moscow into the summer of 2016?"

Rudy Giuliani: "According to the answer that he gave, it would have covered all the way up to November of 2016."

But wait? I thought Eric Trump said a disproportionate amount of trump money is from Russia, and then Trump said he had nothing to do with Russia. Then he did but it was all done before his campaign. But now Trump's lawyer is saying that it went right up until the election.

So gullible.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:02 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Trivia.

If it was merely trivial then why lie about it?

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:11 pm

Just out of curiosity IT, did you actually read the following article?

Don’t Let Russophobia Warp the Facts on Russiagate

Despite the media hoopla, Mueller’s latest filings do not bring us any closer to proving the long-sought Trump-Russia conspiracy.

Aaron Maté

https://www.thenation.com/article/russi ... ler-trump/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:11 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:If it was merely trivial then why lie about it?

Russia?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Russia?

Why lie about that too?

Why did Flynn feel like he needed to lie about talking to their Ambassador? Why would Trump need to lie about his business with Russia? Why did he hire a Paul Manafort to run his campaign knowing that Manafort is uber pro-Russia, so much that he worked for Russia's Ukraine president for pro-Russia things? Why was the only thing Trump changed in the Republican platform the language on Russia? Why was there a server in Trump Tower being pinged by a Russian bank with DNS lookups? Why were senior figures in Trump's campaign meeting with a Russian in order to collude and receive intelligence against Clinton?

These aren't conspiracy theories, they're unanswered questions that Trump has lied about in his attempts to answer. Which leads to one over-arching question. Why lie?

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:30 pm

Glenn Greenwald
‏

*Even NPR* says "an ostensible conspiracy between Trump's campaign and the Russians who attacked the election is nowhere near close to being proven" and "the case that his campaign might have conspired with the Russian attack on the 2016 election looks weaker than ever":

Aaron Maté
‏

After an exhaustive probe, Mueller "has scrupulously avoided" any charges about campaign, or even collusion. What's more likely?

1) Mueller has uncovered a Trump-Russia conspiracy, but is "postponing a direct & public confrontation with" Trump.

2) Mueller has found nothing

.

Aaron Maté

"how lower could they go? If Mueller comes up short, will they find a way to accuse him of being compromised by Russia too?"

Aaron Maté
‏

You would think that losing a presidential election to an ex-reality TV host who freestyled much of his campaign would've been neoliberal Democrats' rock bottom. But nope, they sunk further by blaming Russia & embracing a conspiracy theory. Alas, reality is hard to avoid:

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:52 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Why lie about that too?

Why did Flynn feel like he needed to lie about talking to their Ambassador? Why would Trump need to lie about his business with Russia? Why did he hire a Paul Manafort to run his campaign knowing that Manafort is uber pro-Russia, so much that he worked for Russia's Ukraine president for pro-Russia things? Why was the only thing Trump changed in the Republican platform the language on Russia? Why was there a server in Trump Tower being pinged by a Russian bank with DNS lookups? Why were senior figures in Trump's campaign meeting with a Russian in order to collude and receive intelligence against Clinton?

These aren't conspiracy theories, they're unanswered questions that Trump has lied about in his attempts to answer. Which leads to one over-arching question. Why lie?

Evidence of conspiracy?

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:55 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:"Did Donald Trump know that Michael Cohen was pursuing the Trump Tower in Moscow into the summer of 2016?"

Rudy Giuliani: "According to the answer that he gave, it would have covered all the way up to November of 2016."

But wait? I thought Eric Trump said a disproportionate amount of trump money is from Russia, and then Trump said he had nothing to do with Russia. Then he did but it was all done before his campaign. But now Trump's lawyer is saying that it went right up until the election.

So gullible.

Gossip

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:19 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Gossip

It's from Trump's own personal lawyer

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:21 pm

Nothing to do with Russian conspiracy.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:26 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Nothing to with Russian conspiracy.

Trump discussing a real estate project with Russia, and one where he was willing to commit bribery to secure, has nothing to with Russian collusion.

So deluded. This guy is selling out the west to its enemies and you're here supporting him. If i did that you'd call me a traitor.

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:32 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Trump discussing a real estate project with Russia, and one where he was willing to commit bribery to secure, has nothing to with Russian collusion.

So deluded. This guy is selling out the west to its enemies and you're here supporting him. If i did that you'd call me a traitor.

Jackanorey ...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:46 pm

Flynn's at his sentencing hearing and is basically saying all the Trumper talking points are bullshit

He says he was aware that lying to the FBI was a crime. He doesn't dispute the way the interview happened.

I still don't think he'll get prison time, but he's still a criminal. One that Obama warned Trump about and Trump still hired him.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/judge- ... ps.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit:
Maybe he will get time

Trump will pardon him though so meh.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:56 pm

Lol. Flynn took up the offer to delay sentencing, probably fearing that he was about to be sent to prison for a few weeks given how badly it seems the hearing was going.

Edit: Status hearing set for 90 days from now. Three more months of cooperation in the investigation that's got Trump shitting bricks.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:17 pm

Aaron Maté

"Delay in Flynn sentencing is bad news for us all. It gives the Russiagate Racket an extra 3 months to speculate about Flynn's role in a Trump-Russia conspiracy when case is mostly about Turkey & turns up zero on collusion -- except for w/ Israel, but we can't talk about that."

"One thing I find surprising: I assumed Flynn was counting on a pardon no matter the outcome. So I expected him to just take whatever sentence was handed down."

Daily Planet Hashgraph rules apply
‏

Replying to @aaronjmate

"Have you noticed how even the American superpatriots ex Intel guys don't ever mention our BFF Israel. They pretty much without many exceptions fear the power of the dark force."

https://twitter.com/Bsox327/status/1075091043350167552" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:09 am

CNN have Trump's letter of intent, signed by Trump, to build Trump Tower Moscow.

So first he had nothing to do with Russia, a claim he repeated many times.
Then it was just discussions between Cohen and some Russians that ended long before the election
Then there was a letter but it was signed by Cohen
Then there was a letter but it was never signed
Then those discussions with the Russian went right up until the election in November 2016
And now we can see proof that Donald Trump him-*******-self signed a multi-page, very detailed letter of intent.

Why all the lies?

Uwe Noble · Post by **Uwe Noble** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:03 pm

Amazing how the judge was literally pleading with Flynn to withdraw his guilty plea? I wonder why?! He knows that Flynn did not lie to the FBI and (along with his son?) being blackmailed with charges for being an unregistered foreign agent, not an uncommon occurrence in the 'swamp'. Mueller wanted Flynn's scalp on a Russian matter not a Turkish affair to give his investigation a veneer of success. He must be very frustrated. And still, after nearl two years, not a single scrap of evidence linking Trump admin and collusion with Russia to rig the election.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:15 pm

Uwe Noble wrote:Amazing how the judge was literally pleading with Flynn to withdraw his guilty plea? I wonder why?! He knows that Flynn did not lie to the FBI and (along with his son?) being blackmailed with charges for being an unregistered foreign agent, not an uncommon occurrence in the 'swamp'. Mueller wanted Flynn's scalp on a Russian matter not a Turkish affair to give his investigation a veneer of success. He must be very frustrated. And still, after nearl two years, not a single scrap of evidence linking Trump admin and collusion with Russia to rig the election.

Wow. Straight out of the blocks with a bullshit first sentence.

What on this Earth has led you to believe that the judge was "literally pleading with Flynn to withdraw his guilty plea"? Please link your source too, while you're at it because i want to see what wacko-bird website has you believing that nonsense.

HEre's the facts. The judge, on 5 occasions, offered Flynn the opportunity to delay his sentencing and he refused every single time. Then the judge went to ******* town on his treacherous arse which left everyone, defence and prosecution, shocked. It was ******* blistering, so much so that the defence asked for a recess, and then, cap-in-hand, asked the judge if it would be OK for them to take him up on his offer of a delay.

5 times they refused his offer of a delay, until it because clear that Flynn was likely going to prison, then they were like "uh, actually, your honor, can we take that delay, please and thank you?"

"I am not hiding my disgust, my disdain for your criminal offense,"
"you sold your country out"