ARTICLE: The Brady link

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:15 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Thanks Roy...I appreciate your reply. It just seems that the overall wage bill would indicate a slightly higher weekly ceiling than 28k. If we assume the likes of O'Neill, Long, Pope, Darikwa etc. will be on a fair bit less than 28k and the average over the 23 man squad is perhaps 20k, that is £1m per year each or £23million in total. The dev. squad cannot total more than perhaps £1m, which still leaves a fair jump to £38 million ?

The coaching staff, scouts, groundsmen, turnstile operators, ticket office staff, tannoy operator, PR team, cleaners and everyone else all need paying as well.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:20 pm

Tall Paul wrote:The coaching staff, scouts, groundsmen, turnstile operators, ticket office staff, tannoy operator, PR team, cleaners and everyone else all need paying as well.

What are the youth team coaches getting paid? stealing a wage imo

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:21 pm

No worries random........I might be erring slightly on the high side but the £38million will certainly be no more than £1million overestimated. As I said a key figure is the 190 employees currently on the payroll.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:26 pm

Thanks Roy...much appreciated.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:49 pm

Tall Paul wrote:The coaching staff, scouts, groundsmen, turnstile operators, ticket office staff, tannoy operator, PR team, cleaners and everyone else all need paying as well.

When we are doing maths re wages we also need to add-in employer's national insurance contributions: 13.8% at present time.

In a 25 man squad, roughly equivalent to 2 "average" players - perhaps one is right wing and the other left wing.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:52 pm

KRBFC wrote:What are the youth team coaches getting paid? stealing a wage imo

Don't know - you'll have to ask the youth team coach Michael Duff whether he's stealing a wage.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:04 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Don't know - you'll have to ask the youth team coach Michael Duff whether he's stealing a wage.

Oh so that's his role, not aimed at him then. Ok whoever has been running the youth team set up for the past 10 years has been stealing a wage.

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:27 pm

All well and good having the £35k a week contract on offer to Keane but he ain't going to sign it.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:34 pm

KRBFC...you didn't know Duff was youth team coach ?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:42 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Vegas........There's no way the club would jump from a ceiling of £28k to £50k in one season.

We will eventually pay wages of £50k per week IF we maintain our PL status but not immediately. I know that puts us at a disadvantage with every other club in the Prem but Burnley are a unique club and we do things our way.

Hey Roy, I wasn't saying we would do it that quickly, I was merely laughing at those quivering at the prospect of it. It's Premier League not League One, if thems the wages......

lrac · Post by **lrac** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:53 pm

It's gone silent.But fingers still crossed

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:19 am

randomclaret2 wrote:KRBFC...you didn't know Duff was youth team coach ?

I thought he was the u18 manager not the coach.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:28 am

KRBFC wrote:Oh so that's his role, not aimed at him then. Ok whoever has been running the youth team set up for the past 10 years has been stealing a wage.

For what it is worth, it was Terry Pashley and Andy Farrell and the two of them have done an outstanding job.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:55 am

jurek.........Sadly there's a flaw in that argument. When the accounts are available for this current financial year the total Wage bill will be around £38million and that's with a wage ceiling in place of £28k per week. So to increase the ceiling immediately to £50k per week would increase the overall Wage bill to a figure that would'nt be currently sustainable within our Income.'

Understand you point royboy but...

If the current wage bill is 38m (which includes the manager and all other employees) and the ceiling is 28k a week for players one can assume that there are a number of players on 28k a week. Possibly one or two on more? How many? I wouldn't know.
Let's for arguments sake agree there are 6 on 28k or more. To up to a 50k ceiling might, in simple terms, mean giving two or three of those more but not necessarily 50 k (but close) and replacing some of those on 28k with 3 new or better ones but having to pay them 50k a week (or close) would up the wage bill by around 7m to 45m assuming we don't increase wages to all other staff (apart from manager) by huge amounts.
That's still well within the guidelines (which is 60% of income? if memory serves me well).
If we manage to stay up our tv income should be around 100m plus any additional incomes -season tickets, walk-ons, sponsorship, prize money.

So, we could be generating 110m+. Possibly more. And we should be able to afford to up our wage bill to 55m if we so desire.
And still leave the manager with a decent amount for new players. And hopefully still be profitable or not have to go into debt.

Couldn't we?

ClaretBauer · Post by **ClaretBauer** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:56 am

On a thread like this it is so disappointing for it to be hijacked by KRBFC and the negative stuff for just being negative sake and has no idea what is going on behind the scenes or who is doing it. For example those youth team guys stealing a wage that produced Jay Rodriguez that did a brilliant job for us and got us £8 million or so which more than pays for the department - and that is just one example.

On the topic of Brady and wages etc. - I think this season has changed things and before I would have said £50k is crazy for us, but as the money and rewards have gone up then we do need to start looking at being able to get these type of players.

If we were where Sunderland are now then I would say no chance don't do it, but as we are looking better than that I think this is a big turning point for the club.

As has been said, it's not just playing staff - we have a huge amount of people involved that get paid a wage never mind Sean Dyche who must be on over £1million a year, and every time we do better a proportion of non-playing staff do get extra too, but mainly on the coaching side.

On the playing side its not as simple as signing a player on £50k per week which we can clearly afford - it is the ripple through the squad that then want an increase, and that ends up even squad players want an increase - probably more so as they aren't getting game time so want compensation for that - they all have eager agents.

So if you are going to do that you need to factor in an increase across the board to satisfy your existing players - which ramps up costs potentially double in just one season.

That is what happens overnight to clubs like ours. Leicester are a prime example, their costs went through the roof and the playing morale went down after winning the league because it became all about the money. Suddenly all the existing players had new contracts on double the money as they were signing players to improve the squad that costed double the money.

So it's a fine balance - for us we need to be able to get the players that earn £50k per week as they are the ones that improve the team - but that means all the team need to be raised to that level so that they are on board.

It's a nightmare that I am sure the board and Sean are now involved with to move us to the next level - get it wrong and we will be where Sunderland are and Leicester are relative to how we are doing now.

ClaretBauer · Post by **ClaretBauer** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:02 am

I think what I am trying to say simply is that if we buy Brady on £50k per week then every single first team player will want £50k per week and fringe players want more too. And then if you don't give them that then team morale goes down the pan.

You could say well "deal with it" - but you can't, everything you built on team spirit and togetherness goes out of the window because resentment sets in. That is often the problem more than anything.

That is a problem we never had as we never had money, we had team spirit and the "us against the world" mentality - money is the problem and this is a crossroads for us make no mistake.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:49 am

ClaretBauer wrote:On a thread like this it is so disappointing for it to be hijacked by KRBFC and the negative stuff for just being negative sake and has no idea what is going on behind the scenes or who is doing it. For example those youth team guys stealing a wage that produced Jay Rodriguez that did a brilliant job for us and got us £8 million or so which more than pays for the department - and that is just one example.

On the topic of Brady and wages etc. - I think this season has changed things and before I would have said £50k is crazy for us, but as the money and rewards have gone up then we do need to start looking at being able to get these type of players.

If we were where Sunderland are now then I would say no chance don't do it, but as we are looking better than that I think this is a big turning point for the club.

As has been said, it's not just playing staff - we have a huge amount of people involved that get paid a wage never mind Sean Dyche who must be on over £1million a year, and every time we do better a proportion of non-playing staff do get extra too, but mainly on the coaching side.

On the playing side its not as simple as signing a player on £50k per week which we can clearly afford - it is the ripple through the squad that then want an increase, and that ends up even squad players want an increase - probably more so as they aren't getting game time so want compensation for that - they all have eager agents.

So if you are going to do that you need to factor in an increase across the board to satisfy your existing players - which ramps up costs potentially double in just one season.

That is what happens overnight to clubs like ours. Leicester are a prime example, their costs went through the roof and the playing morale went down after winning the league because it became all about the money. Suddenly all the existing players had new contracts on double the money as they were signing players to improve the squad that costed double the money.

So it's a fine balance - for us we need to be able to get the players that earn £50k per week as they are the ones that improve the team - but that means all the team need to be raised to that level so that they are on board.

It's a nightmare that I am sure the board and Sean are now involved with to move us to the next level - get it wrong and we will be where Sunderland are and Leicester are relative to how we are doing now.

And when did we produce Jay Rod? 10 years ago? 1 player in 10 years certainly isn't me being negative i'm simply pointing out the facts. You can argue all you like about my opinion but by arguing with the facts you're wasting your own time. The fact I brought up beats any opinion, you can't argue with the facts. You can take that fact and make your own opinion on the matter but for me that simply isn't good enough and whoever has been running the youth set up simply hasn't been up to scratch unless the problem lies deeper but to write it off as me simply being negative for the sake of it is beyond ridiculous. It's like you're living in the clouds, pretending everything is positive and nothing is wrong at our club. Anyone who dares question anything is simply being negative for the sake of it, I'm not the only one on here who thinks the youth set up has been shambolic, Tony has openly criticised it himself on multiple occasions.

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:32 am

KRBFC wrote:And when did we produce Jay Rod? 10 years ago? 1 player in 10 years certainly isn't me being negative i'm simply pointing out the facts. You can argue all you like about my opinion but by arguing with the facts you're wasting your own time. The fact I brought up beats any opinion, you can't argue with the facts. You can take that fact and make your own opinion on the matter but for me that simply isn't good enough and whoever has been running the youth set up simply hasn't been up to scratch unless the problem lies deeper but to write it off as me simply being negative for the sake of it is beyond ridiculous. It's like you're living in the clouds, pretending everything is positive and nothing is wrong at our club. Anyone who dares question anything is simply being negative for the sake of it, I'm not the only one on here who thinks the youth set up has been shambolic, Tony has openly criticised it himself on multiple occasions.

ClaretBauer a legible post,easy to read. KRBFC ^^^^^ that looks like a piece by Vicky Pollard.

1914tyrone · Post by **1914tyrone** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:04 am

Majority of Premier teams have young talent making the first team, we do not. Our youngest regular is Keane(23) who we paid for.
As I said in a thread yesterday we are not currently producing any youth, is this our development programme or the way we recruit?? New training facility will help.
On Brady much as would love him to sign we can not start changing our methods which have got us in to such a healthy position, a cap must be maintained.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:35 am

KRBFC wrote:And when did we produce Jay Rod? 10 years ago? 1 player in 10 years certainly isn't me being negative i'm simply pointing out the facts. You can argue all you like about my opinion but by arguing with the facts you're wasting your own time. The fact I brought up beats any opinion, you can't argue with the facts. You can take that fact and make your own opinion on the matter but for me that simply isn't good enough and whoever has been running the youth set up simply hasn't been up to scratch unless the problem lies deeper but to write it off as me simply being negative for the sake of it is beyond ridiculous. It's like you're living in the clouds, pretending everything is positive and nothing is wrong at our club. Anyone who dares question anything is simply being negative for the sake of it, I'm not the only one on here who thinks the youth set up has been shambolic, Tony has openly criticised it himself on multiple occasions.

Hi KRBFC, I'm sure your heart is in the right place - you are a Burnley fan, so it must be. The club is in a fantastic position today. We have the opportunity, guided by our board and led by Sean Dyche that we can started to turn "over-achievement" into becoming an established Premier League club. That is absolutely fantastic - and almost "a fairy tale" to many Burnley fans, including many of the "grumpy old men" (or "happy clappy fans," whichever you prefer) on this site. The scars of the 1980s run deep. The climb back to Championship was steep. ITV Digital kicked the club's finances very hard (no one should underestimate the existential threat). When Owen Coyle led the team to promotion in 2009 it also rescued the club from administration (just a few months after "world financial crisis" hit finances everywhere). The re-building of Gawthorpe today is testament that it has needed redevelopment for a long time. When finances are strained it's right to focus the money that is available on the most important - the first team. It's pretty certain that youth development has been constrained. Yes, only Jay Rod in the past 10 years, while other "Burnley" lads have pursued youth development in Manchester and at other clubs that were then Premier League (at least I'm sure that's the case).

Possibly a fantastic job has been done on youth development - given the constraints. We now know that the club is aiming a lot higher - and has got better resources to set itself up to be expected to deliver.

A little friendly tip: the art of criticism is first to find what you can praise. It's some much easier to respond favourably when there is something positive alongside the "must do better" message.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:38 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi KRBFC, I'm sure your heart is in the right place - you are a Burnley fan, so it must be. The club is in a fantastic position today. We have the opportunity, guided by our board and led by Sean Dyche that we can started to turn "over-achievement" into becoming an established Premier League club. That is absolutely fantastic - and almost "a fairy tale" to many Burnley fans, including many of the "grumpy old men" (or "happy clappy fans," whichever you prefer) on this site. The scars of the 1980s run deep. The climb back to Championship was steep. ITV Digital kicked the club's finances very hard (no one should underestimate the existential threat). When Owen Coyle led the team to promotion in 2009 it also rescued the club from administration (just a few months after "world financial crisis" hit finances everywhere). The re-building of Gawthorpe today is testament that it has needed redevelopment for a long time. When finances are strained it's right to focus the money that is available on the most important - the first team. It's pretty certain that youth development has been constrained. Yes, only Jay Rod in the past 10 years, while other "Burnley" lads have pursued youth development in Manchester and at other clubs that were then Premier League (at least I'm sure that's the case).

Possibly a fantastic job has been done on youth development - given the constraints. We now know that the club is aiming a lot higher - and has got better resources to set itself up to be expected to deliver.

A little friendly tip: the art of criticism is first to find what you can praise. It's some much easier to respond favourably when there is something positive alongside the "must do better" message.

The world financial crisis was in 2008

northeastclaret · Post by **northeastclaret** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:14 am

Either way the reality is we can only sign players in a market below the rest of the premier league and several of the teams in the championship.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:37 am

northeastclaret wrote:Either way the reality is we can only sign players in a market below the rest of the premier league and several of the teams in the championship.

Which makes the need for developing our own players greater.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:00 am

KRBFC wrote:Which makes the need for developing our own players greater.

Correct.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:02 am

If they don't want to sign for our wages forget them, wages are the most important thing to keep in check they have long-term consequences which can cost a club dear.
Time to find some more development squad players and make it into a reserve side.

northeastclaret · Post by **northeastclaret** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:05 am

Or as at the moment we rely on Dyche to weave his magic over players that wouldn't be a close to playing in the premier league under any other manager. For example Hull city have upgraded on Marney and Boyd with superior players on many occasions over the last few years , yet Dyche continues to optimize their ability.

I wonder what Dyche could achieve if he could compete in the transfer market with other premier league clubs. sadly we will have to wait to see that when he moves on.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:10 am

He'd very likely struggle with a big squad of celebrity players.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:13 am

ablueclaret wrote:He'd very likely struggle with a big squad of celebrity players.

Based on what?

People said the same about Howe and players older then him, I think you were one of those people too.

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:18 am

Does anyone seriously think we would be where we are now if we had focused on developing our own talent?

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:26 am

And I mistakenly thought this was a thread about Brady's possible transfer to Burnley

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:27 am

Culmclaret wrote:Does anyone seriously think we would be where we are now if we had focused on developing our own talent?

No, probably not, but we could certainly improve our youth system enough to save having to pay top whack for squad members who are little more than bench-warmers

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:27 am

Just to bring the topic back to it's original theme, it seems that Sunderland are also interested in Brady and seem to think they have good chance of pushing through the deal, as well as signing Jagielka.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/ ... f=mrb&lp=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:29 am

Boden just tweeted that Norwich are believed to be holding out for £15m. As well as another complication being that Brady is their only remaining left back when Olsson is sold to Swansea.

northeastclaret · Post by **northeastclaret** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:32 am

It is about Brady's possible transfer -'why his transfer to Burnley is totally unrealistic and why Burnley cant compete to sign players of his ability when other premier league teams are interested.'

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:35 am

I suspect most Everton fans would drive Jagielka to the Stadium of Light themselves. His legs have gone. No doubting he was once a very competent centre half but those days are gone, a bit like Duff 12 months ago.

That said, I would love to watch Jagielka and O'Shea line up at the back for them... two pacey lads!

If Brady had to choose between us and Sunderland I'd be very disappointed if he went for Sunderland currently. It would clearly be money orientated and not much else.

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:35 am

I suspect if someone comes up with £15m they'll find a left back!

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:36 am

If we lose out to a team with no money and probable relegation candidates we'll end up sticking with our current squad which is a pity. While I'm confident we'll stay up, if we could bring in a couple of players who bring something different I think we could even mange a top ten finish.

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:41 am

Interesting remark from the Comments section of the Eastern Daily Press, only one man's view of course.......

"Martin Olsson the best left back in the championship and our only premiership player and the second left back to Mark Bowen ever to play for Norwich four and a half million .Brady the most over-rated player at at Carrow Road,non team player and who has only played two decent games since January last season and not a patch on Olsson £13 million -something is seriously wrong somewhere. Anyhow good luck Martin ,good riddance BRADY.`"

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:44 am

Just seen on the Sporting Life live transfer centre Norwich are interested in one of our very own "Mr Lansbury", well good luck with that then. Brady would only be a covering option like Tarks is in midfield, doubt he would be classed as a full-time Left back.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:45 am

That could be the Norwich KRBRFC

Imagine if all non Burnley fans looking on here read his oddball views and thought we all felt the same.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:51 am

jlup1980 wrote:I suspect most Everton fans would drive Jagielka to the Stadium of Light themselves. His legs have gone. No doubting he was once a very competent centre half but those days are gone, a bit like Duff 12 months ago.

It's looking that way from what I've seen. When he left Sheff U for Everton I never expected him to be as good as he became, but his days look to be numbered now.

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:59 am

If Norwich are going to try & hold out for £15m then I would expect this to go down to the wire. The pressure on them to compromise & sell will increase as every day passes and not bid of £15m appears.

As for wages, according to the accounts in the Swiss Ramble for 14/15 (premier league season) our wage bill was £28m. I would predict this season we're around a £34/35m total.

Its interesting to look at the "Swiss Ramble" thread and see the comments, applauding the prudent approach taken when running the club & then looking on here and seeing people suggesting raising the salary cap to £50k pw.

We need to continue to find the balance between an affordable wage bill and being mindful of the cost of relegation. The larger the wage bill upon relegation, the higher the cost of relegation & the less likely we would be to bounce back at the first attempt.You only have to look at Sunderland & Swansea to see how inflating wages year on year doesn't guarantee progression on the field. Furthermore Rovers, Bolton, Fulham, QPR, Cardiff, Wigan, Villa, Wolves, Newcastle & Norwich all had wage bills higher than ours when they were relegated in the last few years, so offering higher wages doesn't always equate to sustaining premier league status.

I think Brady is a player that would suit us and really add something we don't currently have. We shouldn't offer him the world though, only what we can realistically afford. It's about finding the right players for our club. That means the right ability, mentality and numeration.

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:06 pm

I know he is the dirty rat who dived to get the winning penalty for Rovers, but it looks like maybe we missed a trick with Olsson as the consensus amongst Norwich fans seems to be that at £5 Million signing Olsson is a snip for Swansea. I think this underlines another difficulty with the transfer market and "upgrading", a good player becomes available at a decent price but he would have to replace one of our outstanding performers in that position this season, Stephen Ward.

Re Swansea I seem to recollect that when we were in the PL last time they had the seventh highest wage bill.

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:06 pm

To add, I find Sunderland's reported interest in Brady completely baffling after both Moyes & club representatives have said the club is in dire financial situation & there's no spare cash. Can't see Ellis Short spending so much and increasing the debt if he want to sell the club. Debt is not appealing to new owners.

If they're relegated, I think a few years of financial difficulty may be on the cards.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:12 pm

In terms of wage caps, it is worth bearing mind that the past few years have shown that our wages are very much incentive based with significant bonuses for wins, league position, final position, etc. A £30k cap or £50k cap or whatever will only be the start.

There's also going to be image rights deals which aren't classed as salaries, per current HMRC guidelines this could be up to 20% of a player's salary plus a share of the club's income in this area(although I'm not sure if something that high is justifiable with Burnley given our low commercial revenue in that area).

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:12 pm

Re Su'l'an the interest in Brady sure does seem to contradict what Moyes has said previously, but maybe that 4 - 1 whacking has caused them to hit the panic button. Even though they got whacked again on Saturday Moyes did not use any subs. which is a message to the Board isn't it?

Also there is an old adage isn't there? If you owe a small amount to the bank it is your problem, if you owe a big amount then it is the bank's problem, maybe the Sunderland Board have adopted this approach.

It will be interesting to see what they do tonight, it wouldn't surprise me if Moyes sent out their youth team as another signal.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:15 pm

claretdom wrote:That could be the Norwich KRBRFC

Imagine if all non Burnley fans looking on here read his oddball views and thought we all felt the same.

It's amazing how obsessed you are yet you still can't work out how to spell my username, embarrassing tbh. I recommend trying copy and paste.

IWOODLOVETT · Post by **IWOODLOVETT** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:04 pm

KRBFC wrote:It's amazing how obsessed you are yet you still can't work out how to spell my username, embarrassing tbh. I recommend trying copy and paste.

Maybe claretdom has unconsciously included the BR bit to your username as a reference to your true allegiance?

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:10 pm

£4 million for Olssen seems like a good deal in today's market. It's a shrewd deal for Swansea I think. It seems excessive to think Norwich want £11 million more for Brady?!

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:26 pm

[quote="ClaretLoup"]Just to bring the topic back to it's original theme, it seems that Sunderland are also interested in Brady and seem to think they have good chance of pushing through the deal, as well as signing Jagielka.

Sunderland is the grazing paddock for washed up, past their sell by date defenders. Some of my favourites include;

John O'Shea
Wes Brown
Younes Kaboul
Titus Bramble