Pep Guardiola has thrown in the towel

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:48 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:All very good going forward and good on the ball but how good are they at actually defending?

I didn't watch the Everton game but they had 38% possession and four shots and won four nil. That is a damming indictment on any defence and I couldn't give a frig how much they cost.

None of their back four and keeper are good enough at doing their basic job, stopping the opposition from scoring.

You're right to a degree but consider this.

Our forwards defend too, they track back, even Peter Crouch did it for Stoke yesterday.
Our midfielders also track back, or try to put a foot in.

A lot of teams have a framework that they try to stick too, especially Burnley.

City aren't defending from the front and a lot of the best teams do that.

Remember Chelsea on their way to winning the CL?
Drogba was at the back in one game desperately helping with defending.
Rooney is known for it too.

I suspect Pep has tried to change things, to much to quickly, instead of finding a system to suit what he's got.
Yes to a degree some of the players aren't the type you need to be challenging for the title, but there are players like that at other top 6 clubs.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:49 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Iheanacho looks hungry and I believe he's got a good scoring record from the bench, he needs a run of starting games to see if he can convert it.
If Aguero is struggling he either needs dropping or a partner.

They've got central midfielders kicking their heels on the bench who need to be playing.

Bravo- I said recently if the midfield and defence aren't doing their job then it doesn't matter who the GK is, they will look shocking.

Heaton knows the lads in front of him will do their absolute best and run through walls to protect him.
I don't think Bravo has the same opinion about the lads in front of him.
That breeds doubt and in turn this leads to errors.

I've already made my point about the defence in another comment.

Central midfielders on the bench like who? Delph? Fernando?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:49 pm

KRBFC wrote:Zabaleta is terrible, he was good 4 years ago.
Clichy cant defend to save his life, did you see Evertons 2nd goal today? prime example.
Stones is a young lad learning his trade in a back four with no protection from midfield and Otamendi is just rash.
The cost of them doesn't matter, Pep didn't buy Otamendi or Zabaleta or Clichy they will all get replaced in the summer and when they do, then we can judge Pep until then it's kinda stupid.

So we can only judge Pep when he's spent a ridiculous amount of money?
We can't judge him working with what he's got?

To steal your words, that's kinda stupid.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:51 pm

KRBFC wrote:Central midfielders on the bench like who? Delph? Fernando?

Delph is a steady midfielder, or was prior to his transfer to City's bench, or have you forgotten that?
Fernando has never really impressed me so I'll agree with you about him, but maybe he needs a run in the team.

For all the money they've spent, City still seem at times to rely on YaYa to be on form.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:57 pm

Overpaid prima donnas at City. There's more than one or two teams in this league to compete with. Early days but Conte is looking the better manager.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:58 pm

KRBFC wrote:He's been in the job for 6 months and is using Pellegrinis old players who won a league title 3 years ago. They weren't good enough to win the title before he arrived and they aren't now. Similar to Jose at United, transitional period. Very similar to Moyes when he replaced Fergie, stuck with a load of old players and incredible expectation. Fans expect instant success and it doesn't happen, look at Dyche with us, his first half a season was the worst football I have ever witnessed.

Funny how Conte doesn't have this problem...

Am I to out you as a Utd fan????

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:02 pm

starting_11 wrote:Funny how Conte doesn't have this problem...

Am I to out you as a Utd fan????

I don't know how I can be considered a United fan when I just said they're sh**e

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:04 pm

I bet on his 4-5 million a year he has well thrown the towel in

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:10 pm

Sidney1st wrote:So we can only judge Pep when he's spent a ridiculous amount of money?
We can't judge him working with what he's got?

To steal your words, that's kinda stupid.

I don't think a manager should be judged until he's got his own players in. For all this judging of Pep, City are only 3 points behind 2nd place, anyone would think they're 2nd bottom of the league. Why no doubting Jose who are behind City? United probably spent more in the summer. It's kinda stupid to judge a manager 6 months into his new job, he took over a City side who finished 4th last season, they're currently 5th in the league. I'd understand if he took over the league winners, spent a shed ton and were midtable. City have had defensive problems since Mancini left, it's no surprise the same problems still exist, it appears some are surprised though.

lakesclaret · Post by **lakesclaret** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:11 pm

Needs a proper prem league keeper for a start, Bravo is a class act in tippy tappy leagues but sweeper keepers are an accident waiting to happen at prem level .Needs Hart back pronto. Plays his team far too high up the pitch for English footy , again he's trying "Barca football" in another country and league.

The top 6 mega bucks superstar teams could well be taking turns to win really, Spurs or Arse next maybe ? The Leicester win was an anomaly for sure.

Thank f*** we're still a real club

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:33 pm

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:44 am

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:16 am

Ticky tacky is just bo!!ox. He had a side of superstars plus Messi who could keep possession for fun but how many times were they level late on in games. Not even looking like scoring and Messi would bale them out on his own.
He's the luckiest manager of all time.

ClaretBauer · Post by **ClaretBauer** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:38 am

Leicester won the premier league in Ranieri's first season with most of the players being Pearson's players.

KRBFC your argument that Pep has inherited crap players so needs time is nonsense - Ranieri could have dreamed to inherit some of that talent yet he managed to win the premier league with someone elses players that only just avoided relegation the previous season.

Good managers get the best of the players at their disposal whether they signed them or not.

Great managers win things with other managers players and can then add to the team.

Pep is none of those yet in the premier league. His half year report would say "could do better".

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:59 am

Worth remembering, for all those who say this is not Peps side, that he signed Bravo, stones, Nolito, Sane and Gundogan this season to add to players like Aguero and Silva.

Probably used to the Bayern way, where there are two/three good teams in the league and when they come good you buy their best players.

I hope City fall flat on their tits.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:25 am

KRBFC wrote: It's kinda stupid to judge a manager 6 months into his new job.

Isn't this exactly what you did with Dyche? And despite the fact he has since won promotion and the league in his only 2 full seasons you still hold it against him.

Still you defend a manager who has no affiliation with your club whatsoever.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:35 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:Isn't this exactly what you did with Dyche?

I remember the Dyche out mob at the end of that first season that he'd taken over, they were brilliant to read

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:36 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:Isn't this exactly what you did with Dyche? And despite the fact he has since won promotion and the league in his only 2 full seasons you still hold it against him.

Still you defend a manager who has no affiliation with your club whatsoever.

I wasn't posting on here when Dyche took over so how the f**k would you know?
I hold that first 6 months against him? wrong again

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:39 am

Krbfc, going back to the earlier chat we had, would you rather have Martinez or howe as your manager? Just curious..

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:41 am

KRBFC wrote:I wasn't posting on here when Dyche took over so how the f**k would you know?
I hold that first 6 months against him? wrong again

You've mentioned it several times, recently and n our recently. Chiefly how the football was, as you put it, "boring as ****'

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:45 am

Saxoman wrote:Krbfc, going back to the earlier chat we had, would you rather have Martinez or howe as your manager? Just curious..

Probably Martinez, did well with Swansea gaining them promotion, kept Wigan in the PL for 4 years and won the FA Cup. Everton finished 5th in his first season, in the 2nd they struggled maybe down to playing in the Europa League? reached semis of both Cup competitions. He got sacked when Everton were 12th.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:47 am

KRBFC wrote:Probably Martinez, did well with Swansea gaining them promotion, kept Wigan in the PL for 4 years and won the FA Cup. Everton finished 5th in his first season, in the 2nd they struggled maybe down to playing in the Europa League? reached semis of both Cup competitions. He got sacked when Everton were 12th.

OK thanks.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:47 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:You've mentioned it several times, recently and n our recently. Chiefly how the football was, as you put it, "boring as ****'

I think you're confused, when I say ''the football is boring as sh**'' I'm talking about right now not 2 and a half years ago.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:49 am

Amusing to see the weird internet Barca fans who had Pep down as the best manager in the history of the game running around defending him.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:53 am

claretdom wrote:Amusing to see the weird internet Barca fans who had Pep down as the best manager in the history of the game running around defending him.

I doubt any Barca fan has Pep down as the best manager in the history of the game

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:56 am

KRBFC wrote:I doubt any Barca fan has Pep down as the best manager in the history of the game

That'd be Bob paisley..

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:59 am

KRBFC wrote:I think you're confused, when I say ''the football is boring as sh**'' I'm talking about right now not 2 and a half years ago.

Can't find the post I'm thinking of, must not have been you, my apologies. In my defence its early and I'm tired!

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:06 am

KRBFC wrote:Fans expect instant success and it doesn't happen, look at Dyche with us, his first half a season was the worst football I have ever witnessed.

This?

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:11 am

That's the one, but considering its on this thread...

Wires crossed

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:17 am

Following the interview he gave after our game I decided he was a cockwomble. Having spent the 90 minutes of the Everton game chuckling every time he was on camera sat down doing nothing other than sulking did I then decided he was a childish cockwomble. Only when my nurse pointed out any other PL manager worth his wages would be stood on the side lines encouraging, organising, motivating did I realise I would like Man City to be outside the top 4 at the end of the season. UTC

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:28 am

I wouldn't write him off just yet, as the City team wasn't great last year and is older this season.

I wonder if it was his decision to sign John Stones as well, and Bravo is clearly an error.

But it does take teams time to settle, and they did start like a house on fire so it wouldn't surprise me if they certainly keep challenging this season.

Claretto · Post by **Claretto** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:44 am

Most overrated manager in the world, full stop. His greatest achievement managerially was getting Barca B promoted in his first season after they had just been relegated.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:51 am

I'd say his greatest achievement was that performance in the Champions League Final against Man Utd at Wembley.

Claretto · Post by **Claretto** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:57 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:I'd say his greatest achievement was that performance in the Champions League Final against Man Utd at Wembley.

Won by a bunch of players he inherited

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:12 am

He will be judged and rightly so. He's got a squad of talented forwards but his defence is awful. I think he's far too one dimensional for this league. I can't imagine he's had to go chasing games much either in his time at Barca or Bayern. Streets behind Mourinho for me.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:47 am

Testing times for Guardiola. He must surely be having doubts whether his style of football can be successful in England. I think it probably could be, but the personnel at City, in general, are not good enough to execute it well enough.

It's early days of course, and City do need a good clear out. They've been carrying some very mediocre players for a long time now.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:53 am

Claretto wrote:Won by a bunch of players he inherited

In fairness, the Barcelona side he inherited in 08 was a shambles. He turned them into one of, if not the best club sides of all time, which included young players he promoted from the youth side like Pedro and Busquets.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:10 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:In fairness, the Barcelona side he inherited in 08 was a shambles. He turned them into one of, if not the best club sides of all time, which included young players he promoted from the youth side like Pedro and Busquets.

How dare you praise Pep, he's an awful manager and Dyche is better, did you not know? you must be a secret Barca fan.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:12 am

I have to admit the idea that Pep is massively overrated is laughable, but I don't think he expected it be as tough as this.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:16 am

Lancasterclaret wrote: but I don't think he expected it be as tough as this.

This is the bit that's caught him out, he's used to what many of us would call easier leagues.

Claretto · Post by **Claretto** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:36 am

At Barca he inherited a team with:

Valdes
Puyol
Xavi
Gudjohnsen
Iniesta
Eto'o
Messi
Henry
Sylvinho
Dani Alves
Yaya Toure
Pedro
Busquets
Ronaldhino
Deco

If I set up a Football Manager team with these players and let my dog have a go for the day, I think they would win the treble also.

At Bayern he took a club that had just won the Champions League and reached the final 3 in the last 4 years...and didn't take them any further than the semis during his entire spell. The league title was a given as at the time their domestic dominance was a joke. During that documentary about him on sky there was a segment in which during an important game (maybe a domestic cup final?) the players revolted and said they were going to play the Bayern way, rather than his way. He said "OK" and they won the match.

Now he is at City, his biggest challenge yet, and is struggling. So much so that he has admitted defeat barely halfway through the season. Should be interesting to see how this one plays out! I can't imagine that's great for morale in the dressing room! Getting rid of Joe Hart for Bravo was a shocking decision.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:38 am

Claretto wrote:At Barca he inherited a team with:

Valdes
Puyol
Xavi
Gudjohnsen
Iniesta
Eto'o
Messi
Henry
Sylvinho
Dani Alves
Yaya Toure
Pedro
Busquets
Ronaldhino
Deco

If I set up a Football Manager team with these players and let my dog have a go for the day, I think they would win the treble also.

At Bayern he took a club that had just won the Champions League and reached the final 3 in the last 4 years...and didn't take them any further than the semis during his entire spell. The league title was a given as at the time their domestic dominance was a joke. During that documentary about him on sky there was a segment in which during an important game (maybe a domestic cup final?) the players revolted and said they were going to play the Bayern way, rather than his way. He said "OK" and they won the match.

Now he is at City, his biggest challenge yet, and is struggling. So much so that he has admitted defeat barely halfway through the season. Should be interesting to see how this one plays out! I can't imagine that's great for morale in the dressing room! Getting rid of Joe Hart for Bravo was a shocking decision.

I guess it depends where you think City should be, there's a reason they haven't won a league title for 3 years, they aren't as good as some think.

Claretto · Post by **Claretto** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:44 am

KRBFC wrote:I guess it depends where you think City should be, there's a reason they haven't won a league title for 3 years, they aren't as good as some think.

I think that given essentially unlimited funding and Champions League aspirations, and as the most successful English team over the last 5 seasons (besides maybe Chelsea who had an amazing 2011-2012), they should be top 2 domestically and in the semis of champs league every year.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:58 am

KRBFC wrote:I guess it depends where you think City should be, there's a reason they haven't won a league title for 3 years, they aren't as good as some think.

They also aren't as bad as they looked yesterday either.

They aren't being set up correctly for the players they've got.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:16 am

Claretto wrote:I think that given essentially unlimited funding and Champions League aspirations, and as the most successful English team over the last 5 seasons (besides maybe Chelsea who had an amazing 2011-2012), they should be top 2 domestically and in the semis of champs league every year.

So why did they finish 4th last season if they're so great and the players are so amazing? City's defence has been shambolic since Kompany hasn't been a regular I'm not sure why anyone expected anything different. I certainly didn't expect Pep to walk in and turn CIty into the best club in world football in 6 months.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:26 am

Sidney1st wrote:They also aren't as bad as they looked yesterday either.

They aren't being set up correctly for the players they've got.

City without Kompany just can't defend and have been able to for years.
Fernandinho and Aguero are both massive players for them, both have served bans.
They beat Barca in the CL 3-1 and were immense against United at OT. I think the reality is, they don't have the squad to cover for their best players. Gundogan was excellent for them, he's out for ages. Fernandinho has been sent off 3 times this season, their best central midfield player defensively. Kompany (their best defender and captain) can't get fit. Aguero served a ban and hasn't regained form, they have no-one else upfront good enough to match expectations. I think he just needs time to understand the squad he has and shape it accordingly, once he shifts out the players he doesn't want and replaces them with the players he does want, then I will judge him. Until then, I won't because City have progressively got worse over the years, the older the regular players (Yaya,Zaba,Kolarov) have got.

Claretto · Post by **Claretto** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:26 am

KRBFC wrote:So why did they finish 4th last season if they're so great and the players are so amazing? City's defence has been shambolic since Kompany hasn't been a regular I'm not sure why anyone expected anything different. I certainly didn't expect Pep to walk in and turn CIty into the best club in world football in 6 months.

What I've said above are just facts. The wheels came off after Guardiola was announced after the Jan window. They were second when he was announced, and then had an awful run of games (winning 3 of next 11). Pellegrini has since come out and said it definitely affected the players and he regrets announcing it halfway through the season.

Claretto · Post by **Claretto** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:28 am

KRBFC wrote: Until then, I won't because City have progressively got worse over the years, the older the regular players (Yaya,Zaba,Kolarov) have got.

This is a big problem. They have one of the oldest teams in the league, and their old players are key players.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:31 am

KRBFC wrote:So why did they finish 4th last season if they're so great and the players are so amazing? City's defence has been shambolic since Kompany hasn't been a regular I'm not sure why anyone expected anything different. I certainly didn't expect Pep to walk in and turn CIty into the best club in world football in 6 months.

Given that he went out and spent £50m on a shiny new central defender and swapped the keeper for one he wanted, surely you'd expect the defence to improve?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:37 am

Tall Paul wrote:Given that he went out and spent £50m on a shiny new central defender and swapped the keeper for one he wanted, surely you'd expect the defence to improve?

A teams defence isn't just the centre back pairing, surely us as Burnley fans know that? The protection from the midfield is a big part of a defensive framework and getting the balance correct is key. Stones cost £50M due to his potential not his current ability.