Stay up and win the cup

RogerBest · Post by **RogerBest** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:58 pm

Before our first game against Sunderland I said to my dad I wouldn't mind if they knocked us out as staying up is the priority but looking at the league table now I think we have put ourselves in a great position to stay up.
Perhaps the emphasis should now shift towards a good cup run.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:00 pm

I think we'll get past Sunderland and Fleetwood/Bristol City and providing we get a couple of more home ties we should progress nicely. But I won't be too concerned if we don't.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:03 pm

Full team out against Sunderland with the only changes people who are banging on the door like Tarky.

Any player who needs a rest should sit out the unwinnable Arsenal game.

RogerBest · Post by **RogerBest** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:25 pm

Everyone in the top 6 places will be focusing on champions league, everyone in the bottom six places will be focusing on staying up. Which leaves very few teams who will be close to going all out to win the cup.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:26 pm

Be careful what you wish for.

Look at what happened to us in 1961-62 !

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:30 pm

I agree that we should play a very strong side tomorrow, with maybe a couple of changes from Saturday's team. But it's crazy to suggest that we should shift the emphasis onto a cup run, considering we've not even got past the 3rd round yet. It's equally crazy to suggest resting players against Arsenal which remains a far more important game.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:32 pm

Staying up has to be the priority. I take winning the FA Cup provided that we lose at the earliest opportunity inthe Europy League ( Assuming the cup winners still get a place)

clitheroeclaret2 · Post by **clitheroeclaret2** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:33 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:I think we'll get past Sunderland and Fleetwood/Bristol City and providing we get a couple of more home ties we should progress nicely. But I won't be too concerned if we don't.

I know we haven't got past the 3rd round yet but 2 winnable home games then one match from 1/4 finals!

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:36 pm

Pope, Darikwa, Tarks, Barton, Defour and Kightly all need game time albeit not all for the same reasons.

We only have 38 games a season in the Premier League + minimum of 2 cup games. In the Championship that minimum is 48 games. A cup run of 6 games shouldn't unduly tire the lads but it could mean us stacking up a few games in hand. Having said that if it means teams coming to the Turf on a Tuesday instead of a Saturday surely that's an advantage for us?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:39 pm

"Be careful what you wish for.

Look at what happened to us in 1961-62 !"

Surely you're not suggesting that our faltering form in the league was a result of reaching the Cup Final?

ClaretPope · Post by **ClaretPope** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:43 pm

RalphCoatesComb wrote:Be careful what you wish for.

Look at what happened to us in 1961-62 !

I'll settle for runners-up in both.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:35 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:"Be careful what you wish for.

Look at what happened to us in 1961-62 !"

Surely you're not suggesting that our faltering form in the league was a result of reaching the Cup Final?

The stats would say exactly that!!! Obviously, the crazy backlog of fixtures didn't help either !

RogerBest · Post by **RogerBest** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:50 pm

My point was really that there are only a few teams that can really try to win the cup and this year we are one of them. If we find the gap between us and the bottom four narrows then we will have to think again but for now let's go for it.

If not now, when can or should we?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:21 pm

"The stats would say exactly that!!! Obviously, the crazy backlog of fixtures didn't help either !"

After we'd beaten Fulham in the semi-final replay and knew we were at Wembley there was a massive buzz about the whole place which if anything we took into the remaining league games. Injuries to key players, notably Miller, Mac and Harris however took their toll and -as you rightly say- playing the next 7 games in just 14 days was ridiculous to say the least.

But I still feel that a good Cup run has a positive and feelgood factor on the club ('08/'09 being a classic example) and progress to say the 6th round this year can only have a beneficial effect on our league form. Plus the fact it will give us the potential of some home games in March!

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:25 pm

I'd never say no to a good cup run. We watch football to be excited; cup runs, as they build up a head of steam, are bloody exciting.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:28 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I agree that we should play a very strong side tomorrow, with maybe a couple of changes from Saturday's team. But it's crazy to suggest that we should shift the emphasis onto a cup run, considering we've not even got past the 3rd round yet. It's equally crazy to suggest resting players against Arsenal which remains a far more important game.

There's no need to "shift the emphasis to the cup". Shifting it to the next game will do.

It's all very well to look at Bournemouth as the poster child for the benefits of losing in the Cup, except that it didn't really work, did it?

Garnerssoap · Post by **Garnerssoap** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:28 pm

When we get to the final but lose to one of the big 5 who are already in Europe does that mean we get the Europa place

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:37 pm

A cup run would be a nice bonus but there's too many posts appearing to suggest that we've all but survived already.

I'm not one for all these mantras and cliches but one game at a time is bang on and has served us very well so far. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, league or cup, these things have a nasty habit of biting you on the arse.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:41 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Any player who needs a rest should sit out the unwinnable Arsenal game.

Thankfully Sean & the players don't have that attitude. Rise to the challenge. No game is unwinnable!

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:55 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:Thankfully Sean & the players don't have that attitude. Rise to the challenge. No game is unwinnable!

Except if we're playing away

1968claret · Post by **1968claret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:59 pm

Think a few people are jumping the gun if they think we are already safe.
Long way to go yet

RogerBest · Post by **RogerBest** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:04 pm

The main objective is obviously keeping our top flight status but we are in a position which we may never be in again where we have a decent cushion from our relegation rivals but won't be challenging for the champions league.

The one game at a time mantra still stands but the selection of personnel involved in each game may be different if Sean thinks we have a realistic chance of winning the cup, which I think we do.

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:25 pm

The chance of us winning the cup are slim, so we ought to continue to use it as a platform for those players in the squad who don't feature very often in the league to gain valuable competitive match practice. Last thing we need are players important to our league form suffering injury chasing a cup we are unlikely to win. The risk / reward ratio is weighted far to heavily towards it being a risk. I wouldn't want to risk our best chance of surviving relegation.

halfmanhalfbiscuit · Post by **halfmanhalfbiscuit** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:06 pm

The glory years were before my time.
My formative years as a Burnley fan were largely third and forth division football.
So for me this is dreamland.
A cup win would fulfil my wildest expectations.
At most points in my life, a draw against a big club would have been enough. But now, we play big clubs every week.
We're 10th in the the league, so it's not that ridiculous to think we could go all the way.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:09 pm

Why would losing in the Cup, help us in the league? Has it helped Bournemouth? Their first XI not only avoided injury by training instead of playing, they also had a fortnight between matches, and will do again. Did their loss to Hull prove it was justified?

rejected · Post by **rejected** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:13 pm

RogerBest wrote:Before our first game against Sunderland I said to my dad I wouldn't mind if they knocked us out as staying up is the priority but looking at the league table now I think we have put ourselves in a great position to stay up.
Perhaps the emphasis should now shift towards a good cup run.

I'd be over the moon with getting relegated and winning the cuo given our position!!

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:34 pm

I hope we play our strongest possible team. If your not interested about wanting the team you support winning the cup then whats the point.

Garnerssoap · Post by **Garnerssoap** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:36 pm

For all those not bothered about the cup - can I have 1st dibs on your final tickets

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:42 pm

halfmanhalfbiscuit wrote:The glory years were before my time.
My formative years as a Burnley fan were largely third and forth division football.
So for me this is dreamland.
A cup win would fulfil my wildest expectations.
At most points in my life, a draw against a big club would have been enough. But now, we play big clubs every week.
We're 10th in the the league, so it's not that ridiculous to think we could go all the way.

No team in the country will fancy their chances at our place. That can't have been said for a good forty years? We HAVE to go for it.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:56 pm

Funny thing a cup run. Definitely gave the team a boost in 08-09 but worked against us in 82-83. A Milk Cup semi and FACup quarters just left nothing in the tank.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:00 pm

Play to win, as we should do (and do do) in every game under Dyche. If that sees us past Sunderland and then Fleetwood/Bristol City then we can reasses in February.

When was the last time we made it to the 5th round?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:00 pm

Garnerssoap wrote:For all those not bothered about the cup - can I have 1st dibs on your final tickets

1st dibs! Haven't heard that for years

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:26 pm

We should beat Sunderland at home.
We should then win the next tie at home all being well.
..then a home tie in the next round against a weakish opponent...then we are in the last eight and one game from a Wembley appearance (Liverpool/ Chelsea/Arsenal)..we win that on penalties and then go up against MUFC in the Final.

Is that far fetched?

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:41 pm

It's not about not being interested in, or not wanting to win the cup, it's about players who are important to our premier league survival not participating in games that could put them at risk of injury.
Should our fringe players get us to the quarter or semi finals, then there could be a case for playing the 1st team at that stage. At the moment, we don't have enough in our squad.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:44 pm

We are currently 14th favourites and 66/1.

There are still 6 BigClubs ( at least) still in there.

RogerBest · Post by **RogerBest** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:54 pm

80/1 on both bet365 and betfair

I have just put £10 on each way

and separately £5 on us to win outright.

UTC

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:19 pm

No Ney Never wrote:It's not about not being interested in, or not wanting to win the cup, it's about players who are important to our premier league survival not participating in games that could put them at risk of injury.
Should our fringe players get us to the quarter or semi finals, then there could be a case for playing the 1st team at that stage. At the moment, we don't have enough in our squad.

Just existing puts players at risk of injury. Pretty much all Burnley's recent serious injuries have been ACLs, which happen anywhere and everywhere with no obvious logic behind them.

If you insist (like Bournemouth) that all you are interested in is money, then all the players you sign are going to be interested only in money. The players (if they still exist!) who value playing time, and winning things, and medals, won't come - not if there's an alternative team offering similar terms but which does want to win things. The idea of "now we have reached the Premier League, we have given up trying to win things - all we want is to remain average for ever" - it stinks. IMHO.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:21 pm

minnieclaret wrote:Funny thing a cup run. Definitely gave the team a boost in 08-09 but worked against us in 82-83. A Milk Cup semi and FACup quarters just left nothing in the tank.

In 82-83 we were winning League games while we were still in the Cup. Before the cup runs got going, and after we were knocked out, we lost consistently.

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:24 pm

Garnerssoap wrote:When we get to the final but lose to one of the big 5 who are already in Europe does that mean we get the Europa place

Doesn't work like that any more unfortunately, goes to the next team down in the league. Hull were the last team to benefit from it.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:46 pm

mickleoverclaret wrote:Doesn't work like that any more unfortunately, goes to the next team down in the league. Hull were the last team to benefit from it.

Well, we'll just have to win it then.

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:47 pm

Or finish top 6

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:58 pm

How about a spurs v burnley final?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:00 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:How about a spurs v burnley final?

We played them last time. How about Liverpool again, we've got a good record against them in Cup Finals.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:35 pm

dsr wrote:In 82-83 we were winning League games while we were still in the Cup. Before the cup runs got going, and after we were knocked out, we lost consistently.

That was my point. I felt we were jaded after the quarters replay and the excitement of 2 legs against Lpool.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:36 am

And yet we won the next 3 games after the Liverpool 2nd leg.

For the first part of the season, we got 7 points in 3 games to start, then 8 in the next 18. The busy time in the cup was January-March, when we played 10 cup games, but also took 17 points in 8 league games. Then it was back to form, 12 in 13 to finish the season.

In the 12 league games that followed cup games, we won 7 drew 1 lost 4, 22 points in 12 games.
In the 30 league games that didn't follow cup games, we won 5 drew 7 lost 18, 22 points in 30 games.

I don't blame the cup runs for that season's failure. While we had cup games, we did well.

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:16 pm

dsr wrote:Just existing puts players at risk of injury. Pretty much all Burnley's recent serious injuries have been ACLs, which happen anywhere and everywhere with no obvious logic behind them.

If you insist (like Bournemouth) that all you are interested in is money, then all the players you sign are going to be interested only in money. The players (if they still exist!) who value playing time, and winning things, and medals, won't come - not if there's an alternative team offering similar terms but which does want to win things. The idea of "now we have reached the Premier League, we have given up trying to win things - all we want is to remain average for ever" - it stinks. IMHO.

No where have I mentioned money, staying in the prem is my concern. Would be exactly the same were we looking to avoid relegation from the championship.
I'm sure that as we continue to add quality in depth to the squad, those players taking part in future cup ties will see us progress further. Some comments on here are a glimpse into the future as to the attitude of some fans should we find ourselves a stable mid premier league table club over the next few seasons. I guess I am more patient than some when it comes to our overall progress.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:29 pm

Why not.