Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue

thelifeofbrian · Post by **thelifeofbrian** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:24 pm

Ive been thinking about this topic and ive come to the conclusion that as a team i don't think we are that much better than the last time we were in the prem..............i just think the teams around us arnt as strong this time.............

We also arguably had two of the best players Weve had at Burnley in the last 40 years in Ings and Trippier in the team that got relegated and we have retained a lot of the other players from that squad.

are we just a little more savvy?

UTC

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:27 pm

One thing that Dyche has very clearly emphasised is that we have much greater strength in depth this time around. So if something isn't working tactically or if we pick up injuries then we are able to change things up. Our problem in our previous Premier League stint was that we lacked depth. We maybe lacked a bit of know-how as well. Many of our players have experienced the Premier League and know what to expect.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:30 pm

At the beginning of the season possibly not, but now our new players have had time to gel they've formed a team miles better than what we had last time.

Okay on occasion we miss the individual talent of Ings and Trippier, but we now have much more strength, athleticism and most importantly PL know-how all over the pitch. Our league position compared with last time is no coincidence.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:31 pm

The best back five we've had in the last 40 years.

There's your starter for 10.

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:31 pm

Heaton, Keane and Mee had no Prem experience beforehand - this time they do.

Trips had none - Lowton did (Trips clearly better, but experience and know-how is important).

We had Marney and Jones in the centre. Now we have a Belgian international with 50 caps, an Irish international who is getting better and better and has experience of a major international tournament. We have Barton with Premier League experience.

Arfield had no Prem experience, now he does. Vokes and Barnes had none, now they do.

To me, we've invested a bit better (still need to progress here) but we just have significantly more experience than last time.

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:33 pm

I think if it was possible to play the two sides against each other, this current side would win hands down. We have more steel in defence where we are far more miserly. There's potentially far more creativity and steel in midfield now, and we aren't relying on Danny Ings alone with big Sam and Andre firing pretty well, and the supply of goals from elsewhere across the team.

That, paired with incredible instability at Hull, Swansea and Sunderland, West Ham not deciding whether they are a good side or not, and Boro being scared to throw bodies forward, we'll not have a better chance, even if we are solely depending on home form.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:36 pm

Mixture of things.

Other teams are struggling, changes havent really worked yet, Sam hasn't won yet at Palace I heard the other day.
Hull, Sunderland and Swansea are in turmoil.
Boro possibly made too many changes/additions to their squad.

Plus our team hasn't changed massively from last season.
Dyche appears more willing to change formations whereas he's been extremely rigid in the past.
Our lads are more experienced Defour is a step up in class and Hendrick is apparently settling in now.
Vokes is showing us what we missed out on last time when he was injured and others are chipping in with goals too.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:39 pm

We're much better at scoring goals than last time. When we won games last time round, it was usually 1-0 and clinging on. We didn't have (or not much) 3-2, 4-1, 2-0.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:39 pm

The difference is this time we signed Defour, JBG and Hendrick not Sordell, Juke and Reid.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:40 pm

Midfield, midfield, midfield. That was our failing on both our previous premier league attempts. This time we are much stronger in the middle.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:41 pm

by definition this team is better based on points won. If you put Ings and Trippier into this team, we'd be a top ten team

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:42 pm

Because there aren't any people who sit in the Cricketfield that can use the internet, I'll do the honors:

The supporters in the Cricketfield have made a big difference.

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:55 pm

I can use it fine, and we have!!!!

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:00 pm

Diesel wrote:Because there aren't any people who sit in the Cricketfield that can use the internet, I'll do the honors:

The supporters in the Cricketfield have made a big difference.

Do any supporters actually SIT in the Cricketfield Stand? I may occasionally back against the seat back but I haven't ever sat on the actual seat I don't think.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:05 pm

bfcmik wrote:Do any supporters actually SIT in the Cricketfield Stand? I may occasionally back against the seat back but I haven't ever sat on the actual seat I don't think.

My point really, the first thing you teach a dog to do is to 'SIT'' .....

yorkyclaret · Post by **yorkyclaret** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:16 pm

We were OKish last time up to Marneys injury, and not having a reasonable replacement.

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:18 pm

NRC wrote:by definition this team is better based on points won. If you put Ings and Trippier into this team, we'd be a top ten team

Tripps definitely. However, if we had Danny we would be missing a striker for all of the season.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:22 pm

Or you play Danny wide and replace Scotty

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:26 pm

I think we have better, more mature players this time around. The defensive 5 are much more savvy about dealing with the tricks and 'gamesmanship' of opponents. We have a choice of 6 primary midfielders who all have experience at this level or at International tournament level. We have 3 strikers who offer different styles that we can mix and match or play just 1.

Backing them up is a bench that is vastly superior to what we had last time. 2 years ago there was plan A and plan 'everythings gone to s**t' with no options in between. The injuries to Marney and Vokes were devastating to the squad. Contrast that with the current squad who can each be replaced from the bench with someone who fits straight in to the system and offers their own strength to the team

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:27 pm

Plan everything's gone to s**t was much more exciting.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:33 pm

We are more streetwise and learned how to get over the line.

Tom Heaton has been in the form of his life and the England call ups have played a massive part.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:42 pm

Diesel wrote:My point really, the first thing you teach a dog to do is to 'SIT'' .....

Have you missed an H out there? I thought the first thing you taught a dog was to 'house train' them.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:49 pm

Last time around it took us 35 games to get to 26 points.

We've managed it before the middle of January this time around.

So yes, we are really much better than last time we were in the Premier league.

SonofPog · Post by **SonofPog** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:49 pm

Yes. Much better,

Apart from Tripps every member of the 1st eleven has been replaced with someone better or playing better than before.

As for our second string. That's far far faaaaaaaaar better.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:56 pm

Lots of credit to our management team, they have learned a lot since our last attempt. and we have that greater strength in depth.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:01 pm

SonofPog wrote:
Apart from Tripps every member of the 1st eleven has been replaced with someone better or playing better than before.

You seem to have missed Danny Ings out.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:03 pm

One look at our bench compared to two years ago tells you exactly why we are higher up the table.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:18 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:You seem to have missed Danny Ings out.

Ings hasn't been replaced yet Stan, now Deary has been several times over, one feels that Danny will slot in to Johns massive shoes?

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:29 pm

Yes I make you right Diesel, Ings hasn't been replaced.

If we're missing one thing this season then it's someone to link the midfield and attack (especially away from home).

Someone to keep hold of the ball, or even beat a man further up the pitch. that was Ings.

Not complaining though, because this team is better as a collective than the last one.

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:58 pm

Home fans were in the cricket field from the first prem season so that can be discounted as a factor.

For me it's the defence the midfield and the belief.

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:59 pm

And the experience

HendricksHair · Post by **HendricksHair** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:03 pm

Definetly stronger

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:04 pm

we look bad away points wise, but then counter that with a staggering 8 home wins.
Luckily there are some real strugglers this season, usually one of those type of teams digs a way out. Somehow though, we are not even one of those who'll get dragged down if this happens at the moment.
only had 4 against us just the once. I think when Dyche refers to lessons learnt, these are they. We are more savvy than before.
Heaton has matured and become in my view, best keeper in the league . that helps. (see man u away)

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:08 pm

It's interesting isn't it that away form is the one constant of the 3 x prem seasons.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:26 pm

Definitely stronger, but it's not just 'on paper' it's in development

For a start Barnes and Vokes are both fit. Heaton, Keane and Mee have improved massively while Defour and Barton are miles better acquisitions this term.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:38 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote: only had 4 against us just the once.

I think City have had 4 knocked past them 2 or 3 times this season.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:42 pm

LS7 wrote:It's interesting isn't it that away form is the one constant of the 3 x prem seasons.

Not really.

It's always going to be the case when we've been promoted to the Premier League.

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:33 am

Defence much better.

Midfield slightly better ( still the weakest link ).

Attack slightly worse ( vokes and barnes and ings better than vokes and barnes and gray ).

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:36 am

"Are we just a bit more savvy"

That itself makes a massive improvement.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:57 am

I think we are considerably better than we were two years ago despite no longer having probably the two most influential players in Ings & Trippier. It's been said that some of the players are now more experienced, that's certainly the case for such as Michael Keane who is now a key member of the defence. The midfield is stronger in both numbers and overall quality. We were totally reliant on Dean Marney and David Jones. They were an outstanding partnership but we had no replacements should either or both be out of the side. We are scoring probably more goals than last time so that means the loss of Tripps (the provider) and Ings (the main scorer) has been overcome.

The away results aren't good. They were better two years ago but, until we were all but down, we had only one once on the road. But we won only four of the 19 home game last time. Home form is key, it is much, much better now and that's reflected in our position in the league.

We finished 19th two seasons ago. That could happen again although I don't think it will.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:09 am

I completely agree with much of what has been said above, about players improving and (even more importantly) Premier League savvy. Confidence has also played a part - we got off to a bit of a flyer at home and that sets the tone for the season.

I think the other point I'd make though is that this is a way more athletic team, and that is important. Last time, the only real athleticism in the team was provided by Ings and Marney, and the way we had to use Ings in the Premier League (deeper) meant we didn't always use his pace as we might have done.

Now, we have a fantastic athlete in Keane (he played 2 years ago, but less than Duff) at centre half, whilst Mee is mobile for a centre half too, which allows us to squeeze higher up the pitch. Ward is quicker than Mee so at least 3 of the back 4 are quicker than their usual equivalents in the team of 2 years ago. In addition, I don't think you can underestimate the increasing importance of Hendrick as a big, imposing central midfielder who carries the ball and covers the ground. Finally, this recent run of wins and improved away form has coincided with the return of Gray to the team and he gives us pace and power to really worry teams in behind. We're a team that looks to physically impose ourselves (fairly) on opponents - our personnel is way, way more suited to this now.

When you add a little bit more quality on the ball in the shape of Defour (and JBG), and a bit more squad depth, plus that extra know-how, I think you build up the picture of why we are where we are.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:18 am

We haven't conceded a goal at every single corner we give away this time either, that helps.

IWOODLOVETT · Post by **IWOODLOVETT** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:27 am

The defence is much, much better this year. Last time we had Tripps, Duff, Shackell and Mee as the rearguard for most games. They couldn't defend against top class forwards and they had a very flimsy midfield in front with Marney missing for some important games.

We were constantly being caught out at set pieces and Tom's form was nothing like it has become this season.
Now Keane has emerged as one of the best defenders in the league and has formed a formidable partnership with Mee. Ward is established as an upgrade on BM as a fullback and Lowton is the equal of Tripps in his defensive duties (but not attacking).

Ahead of them we now have a strong midfield, quality on the bench and some funds to improve the attack.

More importantly the Turf Moor crowd have woken up and are providing some excellent support which is being reflected in the home results.

No comparison - we are much better than the last time we were in the Premier league.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:35 am

This team is streets ahead of the '14/'15 team. Yes, we don't have Ings and Tripps, but we do have Gray, who despite a disrupted season looks set to at least match Ings total last time. Also, our midfield is out of sight from the one we had two years ago.
Finally, the defence, whilst missing Trippier, is a far better unit than the one comprising of an ageing Duff, a questionable Shackell, and an out of position Mee.