Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
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Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Ive been thinking about this topic and ive come to the conclusion that as a team i don't think we are that much better than the last time we were in the prem..............i just think the teams around us arnt as strong this time.............
We also arguably had two of the best players Weve had at Burnley in the last 40 years in Ings and Trippier in the team that got relegated and we have retained a lot of the other players from that squad.
are we just a little more savvy?
UTC
We also arguably had two of the best players Weve had at Burnley in the last 40 years in Ings and Trippier in the team that got relegated and we have retained a lot of the other players from that squad.
are we just a little more savvy?
UTC
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
One thing that Dyche has very clearly emphasised is that we have much greater strength in depth this time around. So if something isn't working tactically or if we pick up injuries then we are able to change things up. Our problem in our previous Premier League stint was that we lacked depth. We maybe lacked a bit of know-how as well. Many of our players have experienced the Premier League and know what to expect.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
At the beginning of the season possibly not, but now our new players have had time to gel they've formed a team miles better than what we had last time.
Okay on occasion we miss the individual talent of Ings and Trippier, but we now have much more strength, athleticism and most importantly PL know-how all over the pitch. Our league position compared with last time is no coincidence.
Okay on occasion we miss the individual talent of Ings and Trippier, but we now have much more strength, athleticism and most importantly PL know-how all over the pitch. Our league position compared with last time is no coincidence.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
The best back five we've had in the last 40 years.
There's your starter for 10.
There's your starter for 10.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Heaton, Keane and Mee had no Prem experience beforehand - this time they do.
Trips had none - Lowton did (Trips clearly better, but experience and know-how is important).
We had Marney and Jones in the centre. Now we have a Belgian international with 50 caps, an Irish international who is getting better and better and has experience of a major international tournament. We have Barton with Premier League experience.
Arfield had no Prem experience, now he does. Vokes and Barnes had none, now they do.
To me, we've invested a bit better (still need to progress here) but we just have significantly more experience than last time.
Trips had none - Lowton did (Trips clearly better, but experience and know-how is important).
We had Marney and Jones in the centre. Now we have a Belgian international with 50 caps, an Irish international who is getting better and better and has experience of a major international tournament. We have Barton with Premier League experience.
Arfield had no Prem experience, now he does. Vokes and Barnes had none, now they do.
To me, we've invested a bit better (still need to progress here) but we just have significantly more experience than last time.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
I think if it was possible to play the two sides against each other, this current side would win hands down. We have more steel in defence where we are far more miserly. There's potentially far more creativity and steel in midfield now, and we aren't relying on Danny Ings alone with big Sam and Andre firing pretty well, and the supply of goals from elsewhere across the team.
That, paired with incredible instability at Hull, Swansea and Sunderland, West Ham not deciding whether they are a good side or not, and Boro being scared to throw bodies forward, we'll not have a better chance, even if we are solely depending on home form.
That, paired with incredible instability at Hull, Swansea and Sunderland, West Ham not deciding whether they are a good side or not, and Boro being scared to throw bodies forward, we'll not have a better chance, even if we are solely depending on home form.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Mixture of things.
Other teams are struggling, changes havent really worked yet, Sam hasn't won yet at Palace I heard the other day.
Hull, Sunderland and Swansea are in turmoil.
Boro possibly made too many changes/additions to their squad.
Plus our team hasn't changed massively from last season.
Dyche appears more willing to change formations whereas he's been extremely rigid in the past.
Our lads are more experienced Defour is a step up in class and Hendrick is apparently settling in now.
Vokes is showing us what we missed out on last time when he was injured and others are chipping in with goals too.
Other teams are struggling, changes havent really worked yet, Sam hasn't won yet at Palace I heard the other day.
Hull, Sunderland and Swansea are in turmoil.
Boro possibly made too many changes/additions to their squad.
Plus our team hasn't changed massively from last season.
Dyche appears more willing to change formations whereas he's been extremely rigid in the past.
Our lads are more experienced Defour is a step up in class and Hendrick is apparently settling in now.
Vokes is showing us what we missed out on last time when he was injured and others are chipping in with goals too.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
We're much better at scoring goals than last time. When we won games last time round, it was usually 1-0 and clinging on. We didn't have (or not much) 3-2, 4-1, 2-0.
Last edited by dsr on Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
The difference is this time we signed Defour, JBG and Hendrick not Sordell, Juke and Reid.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Midfield, midfield, midfield. That was our failing on both our previous premier league attempts. This time we are much stronger in the middle.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
by definition this team is better based on points won. If you put Ings and Trippier into this team, we'd be a top ten team
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Because there aren't any people who sit in the Cricketfield that can use the internet, I'll do the honors:
The supporters in the Cricketfield have made a big difference.
The supporters in the Cricketfield have made a big difference.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
I can use it fine, and we have!!!!
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Do any supporters actually SIT in the Cricketfield Stand? I may occasionally back against the seat back but I haven't ever sat on the actual seat I don't think.Diesel wrote:Because there aren't any people who sit in the Cricketfield that can use the internet, I'll do the honors:
The supporters in the Cricketfield have made a big difference.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
My point really, the first thing you teach a dog to do is to 'SIT'' .....bfcmik wrote:Do any supporters actually SIT in the Cricketfield Stand? I may occasionally back against the seat back but I haven't ever sat on the actual seat I don't think.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
We were OKish last time up to Marneys injury, and not having a reasonable replacement.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Tripps definitely. However, if we had Danny we would be missing a striker for all of the season.NRC wrote:by definition this team is better based on points won. If you put Ings and Trippier into this team, we'd be a top ten team
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Or you play Danny wide and replace Scotty
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
I think we have better, more mature players this time around. The defensive 5 are much more savvy about dealing with the tricks and 'gamesmanship' of opponents. We have a choice of 6 primary midfielders who all have experience at this level or at International tournament level. We have 3 strikers who offer different styles that we can mix and match or play just 1.
Backing them up is a bench that is vastly superior to what we had last time. 2 years ago there was plan A and plan 'everythings gone to s**t' with no options in between. The injuries to Marney and Vokes were devastating to the squad. Contrast that with the current squad who can each be replaced from the bench with someone who fits straight in to the system and offers their own strength to the team
Backing them up is a bench that is vastly superior to what we had last time. 2 years ago there was plan A and plan 'everythings gone to s**t' with no options in between. The injuries to Marney and Vokes were devastating to the squad. Contrast that with the current squad who can each be replaced from the bench with someone who fits straight in to the system and offers their own strength to the team
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Plan everything's gone to s**t was much more exciting.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
We are more streetwise and learned how to get over the line.
Tom Heaton has been in the form of his life and the England call ups have played a massive part.
Tom Heaton has been in the form of his life and the England call ups have played a massive part.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Have you missed an H out there? I thought the first thing you taught a dog was to 'house train' them.Diesel wrote:My point really, the first thing you teach a dog to do is to 'SIT'' .....
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Last time around it took us 35 games to get to 26 points.
We've managed it before the middle of January this time around.
So yes, we are really much better than last time we were in the Premier league.
We've managed it before the middle of January this time around.
So yes, we are really much better than last time we were in the Premier league.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Yes. Much better,
Apart from Tripps every member of the 1st eleven has been replaced with someone better or playing better than before.
As for our second string. That's far far faaaaaaaaar better.
Apart from Tripps every member of the 1st eleven has been replaced with someone better or playing better than before.
As for our second string. That's far far faaaaaaaaar better.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Lots of credit to our management team, they have learned a lot since our last attempt. and we have that greater strength in depth.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
SonofPog wrote:
Apart from Tripps every member of the 1st eleven has been replaced with someone better or playing better than before.
You seem to have missed Danny Ings out.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
One look at our bench compared to two years ago tells you exactly why we are higher up the table.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Ings hasn't been replaced yet Stan, now Deary has been several times over, one feels that Danny will slot in to Johns massive shoes?Bin Ont Turf wrote:You seem to have missed Danny Ings out.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Yes I make you right Diesel, Ings hasn't been replaced.
If we're missing one thing this season then it's someone to link the midfield and attack (especially away from home).
Someone to keep hold of the ball, or even beat a man further up the pitch. that was Ings.
Not complaining though, because this team is better as a collective than the last one.
If we're missing one thing this season then it's someone to link the midfield and attack (especially away from home).
Someone to keep hold of the ball, or even beat a man further up the pitch. that was Ings.
Not complaining though, because this team is better as a collective than the last one.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Home fans were in the cricket field from the first prem season so that can be discounted as a factor.
For me it's the defence the midfield and the belief.
For me it's the defence the midfield and the belief.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
we look bad away points wise, but then counter that with a staggering 8 home wins.
Luckily there are some real strugglers this season, usually one of those type of teams digs a way out. Somehow though, we are not even one of those who'll get dragged down if this happens at the moment.
only had 4 against us just the once. I think when Dyche refers to lessons learnt, these are they. We are more savvy than before.
Heaton has matured and become in my view, best keeper in the league . that helps. (see man u away)
Luckily there are some real strugglers this season, usually one of those type of teams digs a way out. Somehow though, we are not even one of those who'll get dragged down if this happens at the moment.
only had 4 against us just the once. I think when Dyche refers to lessons learnt, these are they. We are more savvy than before.
Heaton has matured and become in my view, best keeper in the league . that helps. (see man u away)
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
It's interesting isn't it that away form is the one constant of the 3 x prem seasons.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Definitely stronger, but it's not just 'on paper' it's in development
For a start Barnes and Vokes are both fit. Heaton, Keane and Mee have improved massively while Defour and Barton are miles better acquisitions this term.
For a start Barnes and Vokes are both fit. Heaton, Keane and Mee have improved massively while Defour and Barton are miles better acquisitions this term.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
I think City have had 4 knocked past them 2 or 3 times this season.Wile E Coyote wrote: only had 4 against us just the once.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Not really.LS7 wrote:It's interesting isn't it that away form is the one constant of the 3 x prem seasons.
It's always going to be the case when we've been promoted to the Premier League.
Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
Defence much better.
Midfield slightly better ( still the weakest link ).
Attack slightly worse ( vokes and barnes and ings better than vokes and barnes and gray ).
Midfield slightly better ( still the weakest link ).
Attack slightly worse ( vokes and barnes and ings better than vokes and barnes and gray ).
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
"Are we just a bit more savvy"
That itself makes a massive improvement.
That itself makes a massive improvement.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
I think we are considerably better than we were two years ago despite no longer having probably the two most influential players in Ings & Trippier. It's been said that some of the players are now more experienced, that's certainly the case for such as Michael Keane who is now a key member of the defence. The midfield is stronger in both numbers and overall quality. We were totally reliant on Dean Marney and David Jones. They were an outstanding partnership but we had no replacements should either or both be out of the side. We are scoring probably more goals than last time so that means the loss of Tripps (the provider) and Ings (the main scorer) has been overcome.
The away results aren't good. They were better two years ago but, until we were all but down, we had only one once on the road. But we won only four of the 19 home game last time. Home form is key, it is much, much better now and that's reflected in our position in the league.
We finished 19th two seasons ago. That could happen again although I don't think it will.
The away results aren't good. They were better two years ago but, until we were all but down, we had only one once on the road. But we won only four of the 19 home game last time. Home form is key, it is much, much better now and that's reflected in our position in the league.
We finished 19th two seasons ago. That could happen again although I don't think it will.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
I completely agree with much of what has been said above, about players improving and (even more importantly) Premier League savvy. Confidence has also played a part - we got off to a bit of a flyer at home and that sets the tone for the season.
I think the other point I'd make though is that this is a way more athletic team, and that is important. Last time, the only real athleticism in the team was provided by Ings and Marney, and the way we had to use Ings in the Premier League (deeper) meant we didn't always use his pace as we might have done.
Now, we have a fantastic athlete in Keane (he played 2 years ago, but less than Duff) at centre half, whilst Mee is mobile for a centre half too, which allows us to squeeze higher up the pitch. Ward is quicker than Mee so at least 3 of the back 4 are quicker than their usual equivalents in the team of 2 years ago. In addition, I don't think you can underestimate the increasing importance of Hendrick as a big, imposing central midfielder who carries the ball and covers the ground. Finally, this recent run of wins and improved away form has coincided with the return of Gray to the team and he gives us pace and power to really worry teams in behind. We're a team that looks to physically impose ourselves (fairly) on opponents - our personnel is way, way more suited to this now.
When you add a little bit more quality on the ball in the shape of Defour (and JBG), and a bit more squad depth, plus that extra know-how, I think you build up the picture of why we are where we are.
I think the other point I'd make though is that this is a way more athletic team, and that is important. Last time, the only real athleticism in the team was provided by Ings and Marney, and the way we had to use Ings in the Premier League (deeper) meant we didn't always use his pace as we might have done.
Now, we have a fantastic athlete in Keane (he played 2 years ago, but less than Duff) at centre half, whilst Mee is mobile for a centre half too, which allows us to squeeze higher up the pitch. Ward is quicker than Mee so at least 3 of the back 4 are quicker than their usual equivalents in the team of 2 years ago. In addition, I don't think you can underestimate the increasing importance of Hendrick as a big, imposing central midfielder who carries the ball and covers the ground. Finally, this recent run of wins and improved away form has coincided with the return of Gray to the team and he gives us pace and power to really worry teams in behind. We're a team that looks to physically impose ourselves (fairly) on opponents - our personnel is way, way more suited to this now.
When you add a little bit more quality on the ball in the shape of Defour (and JBG), and a bit more squad depth, plus that extra know-how, I think you build up the picture of why we are where we are.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
We haven't conceded a goal at every single corner we give away this time either, that helps.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
The defence is much, much better this year. Last time we had Tripps, Duff, Shackell and Mee as the rearguard for most games. They couldn't defend against top class forwards and they had a very flimsy midfield in front with Marney missing for some important games.
We were constantly being caught out at set pieces and Tom's form was nothing like it has become this season.
Now Keane has emerged as one of the best defenders in the league and has formed a formidable partnership with Mee. Ward is established as an upgrade on BM as a fullback and Lowton is the equal of Tripps in his defensive duties (but not attacking).
Ahead of them we now have a strong midfield, quality on the bench and some funds to improve the attack.
More importantly the Turf Moor crowd have woken up and are providing some excellent support which is being reflected in the home results.
No comparison - we are much better than the last time we were in the Premier league.
We were constantly being caught out at set pieces and Tom's form was nothing like it has become this season.
Now Keane has emerged as one of the best defenders in the league and has formed a formidable partnership with Mee. Ward is established as an upgrade on BM as a fullback and Lowton is the equal of Tripps in his defensive duties (but not attacking).
Ahead of them we now have a strong midfield, quality on the bench and some funds to improve the attack.
More importantly the Turf Moor crowd have woken up and are providing some excellent support which is being reflected in the home results.
No comparison - we are much better than the last time we were in the Premier league.
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Re: Are we really that much better than the last time we were in the Premier Leaugue
This team is streets ahead of the '14/'15 team. Yes, we don't have Ings and Tripps, but we do have Gray, who despite a disrupted season looks set to at least match Ings total last time. Also, our midfield is out of sight from the one we had two years ago.
Finally, the defence, whilst missing Trippier, is a far better unit than the one comprising of an ageing Duff, a questionable Shackell, and an out of position Mee.
Finally, the defence, whilst missing Trippier, is a far better unit than the one comprising of an ageing Duff, a questionable Shackell, and an out of position Mee.