Keith Hackett in DT

Elder statesman · Post by **Elder statesman** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:02 pm

Keith Hackett's verdict

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:13 pm

A good post, thanks.
Would agree with everything that Hackett writes about the 2 penalties and severe punishment for Wenger.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:14 pm

Ouch! Quite a damning read...

The FA will not like that. Hopefully it will spur them into action.

Midmoorclaret · Post by **Midmoorclaret** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:00 pm

Good read and well said about Sean Dyche who should be the one having a reason to grumble.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:11 pm

Graham Poll says much the same in the Daily Mail - while adding just how fortunate Arsenal have been with dodgy decisions this season

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Poll.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also RESPECT the campaign group are getting on the bandwagon

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... rassroots/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this is going to get very interesting - can't see how the FA can squirm out of this - especially given 2 previous from the "professor"

for those who want to read Keith Hackett's piece

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... touchline/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Wenger effectively refused to be sent off and stayed in tunnel. Points deduction is the only thing that will hurt Wenger and Arsenal. Just like we got in the 98th minute. Wonder what Sean would get for same offence ?

SussexDon1inIreland · Post by **SussexDon1inIreland** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:47 pm

I just hope that the 2x 1 point from each match that we have been robbed of by Arsenal, do not matter at the end of the season.

UTC

Frenchclaret · Post by **Frenchclaret** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:55 pm

Wenger then stated after the match that Ben Mee should have had a red card! Their player was not going for goal and there were other defenders in the middle - what is he on? Of course he believes Coquelin who lied about kicking Barnes. He is another spoiled and arrogant manager who unfortunately are fawned upon by the media because they make good copy. They are ruining the game and the PL or FA should sort them out.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:07 pm

I noticed Martin Keown added balance to the debate on MOTD when he said about the obvious penalty the referee missed when Gray tripped Mustafi, so it kinda evened itself out despite the horrible way it came. I raised the same point and was shut down immediately on here with people bringing my family into it.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:35 pm

KRBFC wrote:I noticed Martin Keown added balance to the debate on MOTD when he said about the obvious penalty the referee missed when Gray tripped Mustafi, so it kinda evened itself out despite the horrible way it came. I raised the same point and was shut down immediately on here with people bringing my family into it.

If Martin Keown, in his day, had been penalised for the Gray/Mustafi minimum contact the referee would have been surrounded by 11 Arsenal players doing their pieces.
If you are going to call that contact a deliberate foul then we may as well call time on football as a contact sport.
ANyone who has played the game at a decent level and/or officiated knows that there are many times when accidental contact is made and that is exactly what should be considered. Unfortunately, with these 'knowledgeable pundits' spouting rubbish these days about there being contact so he is entitled to go down, fans etc. are being brainwashed into a very poor interpretation of TLOG --which many pundits don't know anyway.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:55 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:If Martin Keown, in his day, had been penalised for the Gray/Mustafi minimum contact the referee would have been surrounded by 11 Arsenal players doing their pieces.
If you are going to call that contact a deliberate foul then we may as well call time on football as a contact sport.
ANyone who has played the game at a decent level and/or officiated knows that there are many times when accidental contact is made and that is exactly what should be considered. Unfortunately, with these 'knowledgeable pundits' spouting rubbish these days about there being contact so he is entitled to go down, fans etc. are being brainwashed into a very poor interpretation of TLOG --which many pundits don't know anyway.

whether it's a deliberate foul or an accidental foul it doesn't matter, if you go for the ball (good intention) and miss the ball while clipping the man, it's a foul anywhere on the pitch. Deliberate or accidental has no relevance apart from whether or not it's worthy of a card. Like the penalty we received, was it a deliberate foul by Coquelin? no it wasn't, he went for the ball and didn't know the man was there, he missed the ball and took the man, easy penalty to give but it certainly wasn't a ''deliberate foul''

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:08 pm

Reading a troll trying to explain the basics of the game to someone with ashingtons knowledge and experience is pretty funny.

corporal jones · Post by **corporal jones** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:22 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:If Martin Keown, in his day, had been penalised for the Gray/Mustafi minimum contact the referee would have been surrounded by 11 Arsenal players doing their pieces.
If you are going to call that contact a deliberate foul then we may as well call time on football as a contact sport.
ANyone who has played the game at a decent level and/or officiated knows that there are many times when accidental contact is made and that is exactly what should be considered. Unfortunately, with these 'knowledgeable pundits' spouting rubbish these days about there being contact so he is entitled to go down, fans etc. are being brainwashed into a very poor interpretation of TLOG --which many pundits don't know anyway.

For gods sake take off your clarets glasses. Of course it should have been given as a penalty. I thought it was at full speed and def on replay. All the other decisions were correct with the notable exception of not flagging offside as the cross came in which given the linesman position is inexplicable.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:26 pm

claretdom wrote:Reading a troll trying to explain the basics of the game to someone with ashingtons knowledge and experience is pretty funny.

I seldom agree with KRBFC but i think he is right on this. We were extremely fortunate from Gray's collision with Mustafi.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:56 pm

I personally think as a referee that grays WAS a penalty and the arsenal one was NOT.
Grays was a clumsy tackle. But still a foul.
Arsenals actual pen WAS offside. Therefore no pen as the first offence was offside.
Burnleys award was another clumsy challenge and was clearly a foul.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:38 pm

Chris Sutton joins the call for a very substantial punishment

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08b15bf#play" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; from 1.23.35

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:I noticed Martin Keown added balance to the debate on MOTD when he said about the obvious penalty the referee missed when Gray tripped Mustafi, so it kinda evened itself out despite the horrible way it came. I raised the same point and was shut down immediately on here with people bringing my family into it.

There's just one problem with that penalty. It's this. Gray went for the ball, didn't get it, his foot touched Mastafi's, Mustafi fell over. Clear penalty? OK.

But in the same incident, Mustafi went for the ball, didn't get it, his foot touched Gray's Gray fell over. It's a clear free kick.

So what do they do? Drop ball on the penalty spot?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:47 pm

claretdom wrote:Reading a troll trying to explain the basics of the game to someone with ashingtons knowledge and experience is pretty funny.

a troll? if you believe I'm trolling by saying I thought Gray should have conceded a penalty then you are thicker than I thought.
Ashingtons ''knowledge and experience''

I don't know who Ashington is, I don't doubt his knowledge but on this instance I respectfully disagree that a foul has to be ''deliberate'' to concede a penalty. I take it you disagree? otherwise you're actually the troll on this post, seeking desperately for attention by typing stupid replies with zero relevance to the topic to provoke a response. If a player goes in for a tackle to get the ball, misses the ball and takes the man, is that a deliberate foul?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:51 pm

dsr wrote:There's just one problem with that penalty. It's this. Gray went for the ball, didn't get it, his foot touched Mastafi's, Mustafi fell over. Clear penalty? OK.

But in the same incident, Mustafi went for the ball, didn't get it, his foot touched Gray's Gray fell over. It's a clear free kick.

So what do they do? Drop ball on the penalty spot?

You said it yourself, Gray went for the ball, missed the ball and took out the man inside the penalty area, I would expect us to receive a penalty if the shoe was on the other foot so I won't blab biased nonsense when it goes for us. I was simply highlighting in some f**ked up way, both sides were screwed out of big decisions so it evened itself out, unfortunately ours came the way it did.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:43 am

The Ref community are really gunning (no pun) for Wenger - the latest from Poll in the DM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... paign=1490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

note the list of previous for the Arsenall Manager - in 2000 he had a 12 match ban commuted to £10k fine on appeal for a very similar incident - there will be outrage if he manages to do something similar again

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:57 am

Chester Perry wrote:The Ref community are really gunning (no pun) for Wenger - the latest from Poll in the DM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... paign=1490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

note the list of previous for the Arsenall Manager - in 2000 he had a 12 match ban commuted to £10k fine on appeal for a very similar incident - there will be outrage if he manages to do something similar again

To be fair it's being blown way out of proportion, he emotionally lost his rag in an emotional game and refused to sit in the stands. He should face punishment for refusing to move when instructed to do so but the complete over reaction to him touching the fourth official is laughable. People are acting like he cleaned out the fourth official or did anything in an aggressive confrontational manner, way over board imo.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:03 am

KRBFC wrote:You said it yourself, Gray went for the ball, missed the ball and took out the man inside the penalty area, I would expect us to receive a penalty if the shoe was on the other foot so I won't blab biased nonsense when it goes for us. I was simply highlighting in some f**ked up way, both sides were screwed out of big decisions so it evened itself out, unfortunately ours came the way it did.

You've completely missed my point. The point is, it is completely against the laws of physics to suggest that Gray touched Mustafi but Mustafi did not touch Gray. The touch resulted in both players falling to the floor. What did Gray do that Mustafi didn't? What did Mustafi do that Gray didn't?

BurnleySYS · Post by **BurnleySYS** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:04 am

We was lucky we got away with Grays foul in the box it was a penalty all day every day.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:29 am

KRBFC wrote:To be fair it's being blown way out of proportion, he emotionally lost his rag in an emotional game and refused to sit in the stands. He should face punishment for refusing to move when instructed to do so but the complete over reaction to him touching the fourth official is laughable. People are acting like he cleaned out the fourth official or did anything in an aggressive confrontational manner, way over board imo.

I am inclined to agree with you here - however it comes straight on the back of this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... ots-match/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and it is the way such petulance feeds down to the grass roots that is the focus of all the ire - in the amateur game the ban would last months - that and the previous from Wenger (the longest serving manager with a single club in the English game by a trip to the mars and back twice) which is causing so much focus.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:08 am

OK let's clear something up guys:

The Laws of the Game state very clearly that when a TV replay shows there's contact then the player is entitled to go down and win a penalty. That's how penalties are won. It's all there in the Book of Laws of the Game in the chapter about how to win at winning penalties.

The pundits probably know exactly what chapter it is. I'm sure. But that's exactly what it says.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:04 am

KRBFC wrote:To be fair it's being blown way out of proportion, he emotionally lost his rag in an emotional game and refused to sit in the stands. He should face punishment for refusing to move when instructed to do so but the complete over reaction to him touching the fourth official is laughable. People are acting like he cleaned out the fourth official or did anything in an aggressive confrontational manner, way over board imo.

As a referee who has been on the end of a serious assault at grass roots level. I really do hope they throw the book at him.
My assailant got a 10 year ban and a criminal record. Nit for a minute suggesting arsene gets that level of punishment.
Hasnt stopped me going out on a saturday and doing something i thoroughly enjoy.
As referees we are told not to touch players more so as you go up the levels for the simple reason it sets a precident as to what is acceptable.
2 way process IMO

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:07 am

Interestingly mark lawrenson doesnt think a stadium ban is appropriate as you can get stream of the game and he can use his mobile to communicate with the benches. He sees it as pointless

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:49 am

dpinsussex wrote:Interestingly mark lawrenson doesnt think a stadium ban is appropriate as you can get stream of the game and he can use his mobile to communicate with the benches. He sees it as pointless

I thought the point was that you're sat with an official to stop that happening.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:51 am

I'm surprised that Mark Lawrenson can be bothered even getting up in a morning, such is his lack of enthusiasm for just about everything.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:01 am

Nobody is reacting like he "cleaned out the 4th official"

He pushed him away - that's exactly the same as him pushing the referee or a player doing that.

Shows a complete lack of respect and self control. Eh but it's Wenger so guess he pushed him with a bit of French class.

If Dyche would have done this can you imagine the reaction and outcry - I'm pretty sure that Arsenal would be using their influence with the higher echelons of the political elite to bring back the gallows and poor old Sean would be looking at a public hanging.

Hopefully Wenger gets what he deserves - and I will book my train to watch the guillotine and his annoying spectacled froggy French head drop into the basket !

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:04 am

Lord Beamish wrote:I'm surprised that Mark Lawrenson can be bothered even getting up in a morning, such is his lack of enthusiasm for just about everything.

Can't believe the BBC put up with the cantacorous idiot. He looks like a tramp on Football Focus - dishevelled, unshaven and miserable. He's an embarrassment.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:37 am

If u fancy listening to the opinions of the referee and arsene wenger
https://you-are-the-ref.com/ref-show-23rd-january-2017/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Goodclaret · Post by **Goodclaret** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:56 am

Wenger knows he's in bother when you look at his post match interview. Clearly wanting to laugh it off as nothing. He knows he steps over the line. You can't touch officials (and rightly so!) in any way at all. If he gets away with this then the FA are doing nothing to protect our young refs coming through.

With reference to the ban at games then AW should be locked in a cupboard during the games ..... that way he sees as much as he usually admits to anyway.

And finally, Lawrenson - as TVC says, what the hell are the BBC doing having him on? What an arrogant sod he is thinking he can put himself across as he does. Pop him in the same cupboard as AW.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:15 pm

The ref saw the incident with Gray and Mustafi and indicated that he felt Mustafi had dived or to use the parlance "went down too easily" that's why there was no penalty. He didn't miss it! Just because there is a collision doesn't mean it's a foul. It's a bit silly to say well Arsenal should have had a penalty when they quite clearly shouldn't

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:52 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:The ref saw the incident with Gray and Mustafi and indicated that he felt Mustafi had dived or to use the parlance "went down too easily" that's why there was no penalty. He didn't miss it! Just because there is a collision doesn't mean it's a foul. It's a bit silly to say well Arsenal should have had a penalty when they quite clearly shouldn't

You're outnumbered, guess it's not quite so clear after all.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:54 pm

TVC15 wrote:Nobody is reacting like he "cleaned out the 4th official"

He pushed him away - that's exactly the same as him pushing the referee or a player doing that.

Shows a complete lack of respect and self control. Eh but it's Wenger so guess he pushed him with a bit of French class.

If Dyche would have done this can you imagine the reaction and outcry - I'm pretty sure that Arsenal would be using their influence with the higher echelons of the political elite to bring back the gallows and poor old Sean would be looking at a public hanging.

Hopefully Wenger gets what he deserves - and I will book my train to watch the guillotine and his annoying spectacled froggy French head drop into the basket !

He shoved him, is that it?

He definitely shouldn't have done it but people are being soft and crying assault, it's hilarious.
Players push each other all the time, lets ban them all for touching each other, assault.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Who is crying assault ? You are the only one who seems to be using these words and exaggerating.

Are you seriously saying you do not see the difference between pushing an official and pushing a player ?

Wenger lost it and he lost it because he thought his team were going to lose 2 points to lowly Burnley.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:14 pm

Didn't Di Canio get something like a 10 game ban for pushing over Alcock (who dived)

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:18 pm

KRBFC wrote:He shoved him, is that it?
He definitely shouldn't have done it but people are being soft and crying assault, it's hilarious.
Players push each other all the time, lets ban them all for touching each other, assault.

You want a free kick/penalty every time that there is contact between players but yet you accept that players push each other all the time without punishment. Are you trying to say that officials use common sense in deciding, just as happened on Sunday?

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:23 pm

KRBFC wrote:You're outnumbered, guess it's not quite so clear after all.

Outnumbered by whom? Not the people that matter.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:02 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:You want a free kick/penalty every time that there is contact between players but yet you accept that players push each other all the time without punishment. Are you trying to say that officials use common sense in deciding, just as happened on Sunday?

''You want a free kick/penalty every time that there is contact between players''

you made that up, I never said that. What I actually said was a foul doesn't have to be deliberate for a penalty to be given, miss timed tackles are sometimes still fouls despite not being deliberate. (This was in response to a comment you made ''If you are going to call that contact a deliberate foul then we may as well call time'') FOULS DON'T HAVE TO BE DELIBERATE TO BE PUNISHABLE. A FOUL IS A FOUL WHETHER IT IS ACCIDENTAL OR NOT.

''you accept that players push each other all the time without punishment.''
Players do push each other without punishment..... I'm not making it up, just stating facts.

''Are you trying to say that officials use common sense in deciding, just as happened on Sunday?''
I don't understand what point you're referring to? when did the officials use common sense? Sending Wenger to the stands?

What I'm saying is I think people are going overboard with the whole Wenger thing, yes he should be punished for not listening to the officials when sent off but people acting like he should be severely punished for a bit of handbags are acting soft. He's a chap, nearly 70 year old, he poses no actual threat to anyone.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:29 pm

KRBFC --you want players banned and charging with assault when they push each other, therefore you are saying that they should not get away with it, therefore, by that maxim, every contact on the field is punishable by awarding a free kick or penalty --that is your insinuation.
I maintain that this is not the case and that officials use common sense in making these decisions, hence the fact that the officials did not consider every contact made by players to be punishable with a free kick or penalty.

Wenger's actions on Sunday were unacceptable because, although he may not be an actual threat to anyone, he has brought the game into disrepute by his actions. This is not the first time that this has happened and it won't be the last, however, if he gets away with these actions the FA are giving the green light to all managers/coaches and players at ALL levels that they can get away with it.
If you had to deal with the many disciplinary cases, many of which are violent offences against officials, which crop up each weak at grassroots level you would realise that Wenger's actions are totally unacceptable.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:30 pm

I dont care how old wenger is. If he pushes a match official that is setting an acceptable standard if he is not severley punished. Pushes, slaps, punches where does it stop ??? Then u get the grey areas. Opens up all sorts of interpretations and disparagies of punishment.
Touch, push, punch, slap. All assault .
Go out in a saturday or sunday and try refereeing and see how it feels to be verbally and then physically abused.
Rest assured it isnt a pleasant experience. Thankfully most players and managers know what the acceptable behaviour is and therefore why i go out and enjoy my hobby. (Even though that has taken me to a good standard of football)