Glad I'm not from Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Iran, Yemen, or Libya

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:38 am

I'm a permanent resident of the United States. I own three properties there. I earn my living entirely there and my total wealth is exclusively there, as is my debt. My wife is also there, and my step-children.

I'm due to take a trip to the UK in 10 days, and if I were from any of the countries from the title, and not the UK, I would not be allowed back in.

Many US companies, with employees either on visas or like me permanent residents, now have stranded employees, not able to get "home"

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:54 am

ACLU have won a temporary ban on part of the executive order - addressing those that are of refugee status. It basically provides the legal system time to determine if his order is unconstitutional. Still wouldn't let ME get back in the country

secessionman · Post by **secessionman** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:12 am

NRC wrote:I'm a permanent resident of the United States. I own three properties there. I earn my living entirely there and my total wealth is exclusively there, as is my debt. My wife is also there, and my step-children.

I'm due to take a trip to the UK in 10 days, and if I were from any of the countries from the title, and not the UK, I would not be allowed back in.

Many US companies, with employees either on visas or like me permanent residents, now have stranded employees, not able to get "home"

They have had over 2 months notice to be fair, if this is a surprise they weren't paying attention to the campaign.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:21 am

Who is "they" secessionman? My colleague generating revenue for a US company that now cannot get back to his family?

secessionman · Post by **secessionman** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:39 am

Regardless of politics, if they haven't made provisions for this eventuality between November 8th and now, they have been somewhat naive.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:45 am

secessionman wrote:Regardless of politics, if they haven't made provisions for this eventuality between November 8th and now, they have been somewhat naive.

Yes. They're the naive ones.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:05 am

Idi Amin who remembers him , He only gave the Asian community 90 days notice before moving them on..

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:08 am

Out of interest, was this specific ban made during his campaign? As in, he specifically said everyone from those countries, regardless of visa status already in the USA and those who live in those countries will not be allowed in to the country if they leave/try to come?

claretinkorea · Post by **claretinkorea** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:42 am

Not sure what the point of the OP specifically is. You didn't ask a question, it was more of a series of statements. But I suppose you are probably interested in people's views or you wouldn't have posted.

For what it's worth I haven't seen anything from Trump to suggest he will endear himself to anyone outside the USA (and clearly a large number in the USA too), he also doesn't seem like the kind of leader that particularly cares about what people think which makes him quite dangerous. I'm almost sure that if he pressed the button, he would be able to resist tweeting about it.

All of which begs the question as to why he got voted in, in the first place. If we can say that those who voted for him understood and stand behind his policies then you could draw the conclusion that the American people (let's not get into the popular vote thing) also prefer not to have people from these countries in the USA. Not a sentiment I agree with, but the American people have spoken, apparently he won fair and square. Sounds like you will all be getting everything that comes to you, whether you now like it or not. I'm sure if you don't like it, Trump's response would be to tell you to leave (he'd probably tweet that as well).

I can imagine you ask yourself whether you want to be a part of such a country anymore too...

claretinkorea · Post by **claretinkorea** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:45 am

On another note, it goes without saying that I'm glad I'm not from a violent, dysfunctional country where I am under daily threat of persecution. Although if I was from one of those countries, I don't think America would be my first choice anyway, given that I'd likely be in for more of the same there.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:16 pm

Yet thousands and thousands of good people from one of those countries have chosen America, have made lives, freinds and families and dont sufferer from the threat of persecution in fact quite the opposite. Strange eh

claretinkorea · Post by **claretinkorea** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:22 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Yet thousands and thousands of good people from one of those countries have chosen America, have made lives, freinds and families and dont sufferer from the threat of persecution in fact quite the opposite. Strange eh

The world is an unusual place!

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:33 pm

Hey come on it could be a lot worse for those people from the countries mentioned,they could be from Blackburn.

corporal jones · Post by **corporal jones** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:39 pm

So what is the anti terrorism policy going to be then? or shall the west continue to sleepwalk to armagheddon?

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:59 pm

Now Mo Farah has said he might not be allowed to return to his family in America.
A nation of morons have finally got their wish. They are led by a moron.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:01 pm

You won't hear this on the MSM but the countries on the travel ban was compiled by the Obama administration.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:06 pm

NRC, your situation sounds very much like mine except I am a US Citizen. So why not just become a citizen ? By the way, which country are you a citizen of at the moment ?

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:09 pm

claretinkorea wrote:Not sure what the point of the OP specifically is. You didn't ask a question, it was more of a series of statements. But I suppose you are probably interested in people's views or you wouldn't have posted.

For what it's worth I haven't seen anything from Trump to suggest he will endear himself to anyone outside the USA (and clearly a large number in the USA too), he also doesn't seem like the kind of leader that particularly cares about what people think which makes him quite dangerous. I'm almost sure that if he pressed the button, he would be able to resist tweeting about it.

All of which begs the question as to why he got voted in, in the first place. If we can say that those who voted for him understood and stand behind his policies then you could draw the conclusion that the American people (let's not get into the popular vote thing) also prefer not to have people from these countries in the USA. Not a sentiment I agree with, but the American people have spoken, apparently he won fair and square. Sounds like you will all be getting everything that comes to you, whether you now like it or not. I'm sure if you don't like it, Trump's response would be to tell you to leave (he'd probably tweet that as well).

I can imagine you ask yourself whether you want to be a part of such a country anymore too...

Good spot on a series of statements, claretinkorea. And yes the thread was to provoke views, which imploding turtle hijacked by not scanning the board in the early hours and seeing a thread already existed (this) on the same topic, from someone who actually has direct interest from two different angles, while he has none. Now all the views are on that thread but hey-ho.

To the point of foresight, I suppose it is worth raising, but at no point was it suggested that the threatened ban would impact people already here, legally, legitimately, and by definition approved. And it is rightly being legally and successfully challenged. So I guess the follow up question is who the heck advices Trump, and has it not yet dawned that the presidency is for the country, the position is not President of Trump

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:20 pm

conyoviejo wrote:Idi Amin who remembers him , He only gave the Asian community 90 days notice before moving them on..

I blame idi amin for giving this country the odious Yasmin Alibhai Brown.

A woman who has spent her life criticising , talking down and sneering at the very country and many of its people that foolishly gave her sanctuary, safety, shelter and a home!

A politically correct, opinion and voice denying, frothing at the mouth anglophobe.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:20 pm

I think a bit of perspective is required here, the US is teeming with nationals from all over the world, look at Trumps city of New York.
Colombians, African Americans, Irish, Scots, Peurto Ricans, Nigerians,Poles, the list is endless.
Surely the recent measures are specific in nature.I don't think America could be accused of anything sinister.

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:41 pm

NRC wrote:I'm a permanent resident of the United States. I own three properties there. I earn my living entirely there and my total wealth is exclusively there, as is my debt. My wife is also there, and my step-children.

I'm due to take a trip to the UK in 10 days, and if I were from any of the countries from the title, and not the UK, I would not be allowed back in.

Many US companies, with employees either on visas or like me permanent residents, now have stranded employees, not able to get "home"

3 properties eh? Do you have a four thousand pound watch?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:44 pm

Surely the bottom line is that some perfectly decent hardworking workers, who have contributed massively to the USA over a period of years, have gone off to work, leaving their families in the USA, but cannot now return "home".
How can any decent and reasonable person defend this?

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:45 pm

They're ill thought through coyote. I know for a fact the company I work for now has human resource issues based on high expertise consultants, long term residents of the United States, outside of the country delivering multi-million dollar contracts that cannot currently get back home to their families.

This isn't about border/protection from terror, it's the notion you can arbitrarily **** with people like that and think it's ok

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:47 pm

Can't afford one clarinetclaret. My debt to income ratio means I struggle to pay parking never mind the iconic 4K watch

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:14 pm

NRC wrote:Can't afford one clarinetclaret. My debt to income ratio means I struggle to pay parking never mind the iconic 4K watch

Any reason you did not answer post 17 NRC ?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:20 pm

Blackburn

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:44 pm

NRC wrote:This isn't about border/protection from terror, it's the notion you can arbitrarily **** with people like that and think it's ok

No there's more to it than that. For every individual who is stopped at the border (and the BBC is reporting there is between 100-200 of them) there are millions and millions of Americans who aren't at all affected by it.

These people are only as likely to be sadistic as anyone else but they are also very likely to be the people who understand perfectly well that the countries listed by Trump are evidently and obviously backwaters harbouring massive amounts of hatred towards the west, especially America.

The countries listed are obvious target for heightened security checks and immigration controls. One would hope they appear very high up on a list of countries the UK actively discriminates towards too. If this very simple and very obvious truth had been more readily acknowledged by politicians over the past 15-20 years we could be having a reasoned debate about what kind of restrictions we should implement.

Unfortunately discussions about such matters were constantly peppered with accusations of "racism" and debates closed down.

So because we haven't had the reasoned discussion, Trump has turned it into a pathetic and stupid binary argument:

Are you with the establishment figures (the Clintons, the Blairs etc) who are "pro immigration" or are you with the masses of middle Americans who are "pro control"?

There's an obvious winner when the debate is framed like that and to hell with the personal consequences because, well, it's 100-200 people directly affected versus millions who aren't. Trump has framed the debate and he's controlling the battleground.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:50 pm

FCBurnley, no reason other than I missed it, apologies. I'm Caucasian English, UK, but have been expatriât for 20 years, 10 in the US.

I'm not a citizen because we haven't yet determined retirement plans or even if I work from wherever we choose and I do,so remotely, and if it turns out that it's outside of the US (mrsNRC has herself lived internationally) then I don't want the IRS to follow me where I'm paying taxation on my income. The US is the only country that follows its citizens wherever they live. In other words I haven't had need to become a citizen, there's no benefit at this point, only potential downsides

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:53 pm

NRC wrote:FCBurnley, no reason other than I missed it, apologies. I'm Caucasian English, UK, but have been expatriât for 20 years, 10 in the US.

I'm not a citizen because we haven't yet determined retirement plans or even if I work from wherever we choose and I do,so remotely, and if it turns out that it's outside of the US (mrsNRC has herself lived internationally) then I don't want the IRS to follow me where I'm paying taxation on my income. The US is the only country that follows its citizens wherever they live. In other words I haven't had need to become a citizen, there's no benefit at this point, only potential downsides

Sounds good. Only 2 benefits of US citizenship.......Vote and Passport. The latter might prove very useful in your case !

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:19 pm

I know your political leanings FCBurnley, and I'm not going there - I'm in the camp of we have an elected president and let's get on with it. That said, while the high motive of a decision like this one is homeland security, and. Nobody of the right mind should be critical of that, how Trump has gone about addressing it is ill-thought through legally, politically, and with the torching of the mosque in your home state of Texas, morally suspect in that it encourages idiots...... that torch mosques....

As to Trump supporter what's your initial reaction as to how he is going about delivering on his stated platform?

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:23 pm

From Reuters:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. green card holders will require additional screening before they can return to the United States, the White House said on Saturday.

Earlier, a Department of Homeland Security official said people holding green cards, making them legal permanent U.S. residents, were included in President Donald Trump's executive action temporarily barring people from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the United States.

"It will bar green card holders," Gillian Christensen, acting Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman, said in an email.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:32 pm

If the USA wants homeland security and to bring an end to all of the "carnage" (Trumps words) just bring in strict gun controls.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:45 pm

Kenton, that's nothing to do with border control protection from external threats

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:51 pm

Trump is a ******* prick of the highest order. A dictatorship is upon us

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:22 pm

NRC wrote:Kenton, that's nothing to do with border control protection from external threats

I assume Kenton is referring to the fact that thousands more US citizens are killed each year in the USA by guns than by Islamic terrorists. Indeed more people are shot dead by toddlers in the USA than are killed by terrorists.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:23 pm

This thread reminds me of a song by Gil Scott Heron and Brian Jackson on their Winter In America LP. The track was H20Gate Blues which was a skit on Nixon and his administration after the Watergate scandal and one of the lines in the song went something like - his ignorance is surpassed only by the people who voted for him. Seems rather apposite and appropriate now.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:41 pm

NRC wrote:I know your political leanings FCBurnley, and I'm not going there - I'm in the camp of we have an elected president and let's get on with it. That said, while the high motive of a decision like this one is homeland security, and. Nobody of the right mind should be critical of that, how Trump has gone about addressing it is ill-thought through legally, politically, and with the torching of the mosque in your home state of Texas, morally suspect in that it encourages idiots...... that torch mosques....

As to Trump supporter what's your initial reaction as to how he is going about delivering on his stated platform?

Think you are confused NRC. I do not live in Texas and other than changing planes at Dallas have never been there ?

My rationale for any country be it UK or USA or any other is, if you dont like its rules or the people or find anything else disturbing then leave. It really is that simple. I hated living in the UK under Blair and his cronies and left. With regard to your question on Trump. Ask me again this time next year. As you said. We have an elected President and lets get on with it.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:02 am

not sure why I had you down in Texas then.......

As to this time next year, I've personally remained apolitical throughout the whole process. As a permanent resident I'm disenfranchised so it's pointless taking position, so I prefer to look at it intellectually......

At least now, and to the point of my OP, a reverse has been done on green card holders.......... but it doesn't smack of competency to firstly be successfully challenged in court, clarify what is meant by the EO, and thne backtrack on aspects of it....

At least he and the Mexican President are talking again too.... I really do hope he can quickly learn to "curb his enthusiasm"

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:24 am

I used to live in Dallas, maybe that caused the confusion ?!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:48 am

GordonvaleClaret · Post by **GordonvaleClaret** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:05 am

Me too! Have been for many years. Could add a few more countries to the list.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:23 pm

Meanwhile Ivanka Trump, who can normally do no wrong in my eyes, decides to tweet a picture of herself ready to go on the town with her top government advisor husband, and she's wrapped in $5000 of tinfoil

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23letthemeatcake&src=tyah

Ightenclaret · Post by **Ightenclaret** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:31 pm

It's the native, indigenous Americans that should be ejecting the white man from that land. Doesn't belong to them in the first place.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:41 pm

As alluded to in the OP, it is now confirmed internally that I have work colleagues (consultants) that were impacted - not able to get back in simply because we had them on customer sites outside of the US, generating revenue for a US and Fortune 50 company.

Our CEO has written to all employees, over 30,000 people indicating we are in direct conversation with "Washington." The tone is very much ensuring the companies own ideals are not reflected with this ill-thought-through action, and the email clearly condemns and distances us

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:21 pm

Ightenclaret wrote:It's the native, indigenous Americans that should be ejecting the white man from that land. Doesn't belong to them in the first place.

People just prefer to gloss over this.

The average US Citizen doesn't like to think that their property wasn't obtained in a legitimate way (has a history of bloodshed & injustice behind it). They like to think they're civilised.

They like to say things like it's not practical to make restitution.

GordonvaleClaret · Post by **GordonvaleClaret** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:44 pm

Hope you're not going to start picking on Aussies.

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:48 pm

Was surprised to see that Mo Farah lives in USA. First he's from Somalia, then he's so proud to be British, now he's a Yank. Apparently he was worried about what would happen if he "visited" England.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:18 pm

basil6345789 wrote:Was surprised to see that Mo Farah lives in USA. First he's from Somalia, then he's so proud to be British, now he's a Yank. Apparently he was worried about what would happen if he "visited" England.

Thought you had to be British to be Knighted ?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:25 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:People just prefer to gloss over this.

The average US Citizen doesn't like to think that their property wasn't obtained in a legitimate way (has a history of bloodshed & injustice behind it). They like to think they're civilised.

They like to say things like it's not practical to make restitution.

The indigenous American Indians are the only true Americans. They are also extremely rich as they have exclusive licenses to operate casinos ( in certain areas) . Who do you think really owns the UK ?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:59 pm

basil6345789 wrote:Was surprised to see that Mo Farah lives in USA. First he's from Somalia, then he's so proud to be British, now he's a Yank. Apparently he was worried about what would happen if he "visited" England.

Farah is very much "British" - even though he happens to have been born in Somalia. His father was born in London and his grandfather was born in the British protectorate of Somaliland.
Farah was brought up, educated and trained in north London. His ambition as a child / youth was to play for Arsenal!!
He only moved to the USA (Oregon) in 2014, and I don't think his "Britishness" is in any doubt, unless you are questioning the "Britishness" of several posters on this thread who happen to be living and / or working in the states at present.