Joey Barton's Hearing.

mohamed69 · Post by **mohamed69** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:40 am

snapcrackleandpop wrote:Mohamed 69, how is the humble pie

Given we signed him and then he was immediately facing a ban for the rest of the season, I was proven 100% right.

We were lucky with the timing of the charges. Any later and we would have properly signed him rather than working some contingencies into his contract.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:54 am

I don't condone what JB has done, but I think the same betting company shoud be forced to reveal all other professional footballers that have bet on football matches.

If he has bet on games in which he was involved (other than to win), including stupid things like the time of the first throw in etc., then I would be very disappointed in him.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:00 am

Interesting this one. He is entitled to confidentiality, so who spilled the beans? Why would the betting company report it, its their loss (probably) at the end of the day. I hope he's legally represented.

ToryClaret · Post by **ToryClaret** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:09 am

Townsend got a 4 game ban but 3 were suspended back in 2013 when he was at Spurs.

Hopefully that's the precedent unless the law and/our the scale of what Joey's done, means it will be a lot more severe.

CrispyClaret · Post by **CrispyClaret** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:18 am

I can't defend Barton for breaking the rules but...
A vindictive fan reported Gray for his historical tweets. Now a betting company or maybe just a disgruntled employee has reported Barton for placing bets. That sets a precedent that any addicted gambler can be "outed", Barton will have the support to deal with the consequences but an ordinary punter wouldn't. It's a dangerous game someone has played, yes they have lost future monnies from bets by one person, but if investigated it could have far reaching consequences.

As for his punishment, the best we can hope for is fine as well as matchday ban. What we don't want is him banning from all footballing activities, that way he can remain at least in a motivational role which he has excelled in with Burnley since last December.

mohamed69 · Post by **mohamed69** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:22 am

What do you all make of him requesting a personal hearing?

Seems like a ploy to get 2-3 more weeks in, which would only make sense if he was facing a lengthy (ie rest of season) ban? Will the next 2-3 games be the last we see of joey?

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:29 am

beddie wrote:Interesting this one. He is entitled to confidentiality, so who spilled the beans? Why would the betting company report it, its their loss (probably) at the end of the day. I hope he's legally represented.

There were rumours going around of who the betting company was when this all came out.
I won't put it in here but it doesn't take much thinking to work out the connection

CrispyClaret · Post by **CrispyClaret** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:34 am

mohamed69 wrote:What do you all make of him requesting a personal hearing?

There are a number of obvious reasons for a personal hearing. One is showing, belatedly, some respect for the FA by attending to hear the punishement handed down. To have a chance to explain his betting history, we only know how many bets over a long period and not how many since the 2014 rule change.
He is nearing the end of his playing career, even if he has 2 years left in his legs, the end is nigh. Any chance he has to prolong playing has to be positive in his eyes.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:45 am

Maybe there could be a suspension as he is nearing the end of his playing career. They are denying him earnings before he retires. Think this is far from simple.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:55 am

wilks_bfc wrote:There were rumours going around of who the betting company was when this all came out.
I won't put it in here but it doesn't take much thinking to work out the connection

It does it could be 1 of several.

Doubt it'll Bill Hill, Lassbrokes or Victor

Could be Ours or Rangers current sponsors..

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:18 am

Has any other player ever had a long ban for betting? Seen above Townsend 1 game, think Demichelis was just a fine recently and I'm sure there was another last season that was just a fine. There was a lot of bets but should that make a difference? Is there any basis or precedent for a long ban or are we just expecting it because of who it is?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:18 am

mohamed69 wrote:What do you all make of him requesting a personal hearing?

Seems like a ploy to get 2-3 more weeks in, which would only make sense if he was facing a lengthy (ie rest of season) ban? Will the next 2-3 games be the last we see of joey?

Everybody requests a personal hearing for any sort of offence, because you can then take the chance to grovel a bit and tell the panel that you're a changed man. You've got the chance to persuade them to be lenient - if you don't get a personal hearing, the panel will think you don't care, haven't changed, don't respect the panel, etc., and may well give a harsher sentence.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:34 am

A lengthy ban will set a dangerous precedent since I imagine a lot of players will bet on football matches. I'm sure Barton will be able to name a few he has played alongside over the years.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:45 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:A lengthy ban will set a dangerous precedent since I imagine a lot of players will bet on football matches. I'm sure Barton will be able to name a few he has played alongside over the years.

Former Arsenal forward Kevin Gamble, perhaps or ex Reading star Stephen Punt.

Any more?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:26 am

Chelsea/Bournemouth defender Nathan Acca

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:27 am

MACCA wrote:It does it could be 1 of several.

Doubt it'll Bill Hill, Lassbrokes or Victor

Could be Ours or Rangers current sponsors..

The last sentence is along the lines I'd heard

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:32 am

Diesel wrote:Former Arsenal forward Kevin Gamble, perhaps or ex Reading star Stephen Punt.

Any more?

Paul Furlong....

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:08 pm

Tony Bookie

Selby Claret · Post by **Selby Claret** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:39 pm

Victor Anichebe
Fred
Kevin Longshot
Regi Blinkers

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:19 pm

ToryClaret wrote:Townsend got a 4 game ban but 3 were suspended back in 2013 when he was at Spurs.

Hopefully that's the precedent unless the law and/our the scale of what Joey's done, means it will be a lot more severe.

That would depend on the FA being consistent and neutral between big and smaller clubs. Which basically means, he'll get a harsher punishment than that.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:11 pm

see link to BBC article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38800821" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:34 pm

12 goal Bolton 'Legend' Owen Coral

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:57 pm

Two year ban rumoured on fb. Dunno where from though.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:09 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:Two year ban rumoured on fb. Dunno where from though.

So he's not had his hearing, he's then not gone to appeal (which he probably will) but someone already reckons he's getting a 2 year ban

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:30 pm

Yeah, that's what I thought. Don't know where they got that from other than the top of their head!

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:36 pm

I've just made up that he's got a €25 fine and has been suspended from Paddy Power's promotional offers for 6 weeks - you heard it here first.

ayrshireclaret83 · Post by **ayrshireclaret83** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:56 pm

If he was to come clean and say he has a problem would the fa not have to help him rather than punish him severely

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:04 pm

I don't think he's necessarily got a betting problem - 1260 bets over 10 years is 10 bets a month, 2 and a bit bets per week. That's only like putting an accumulator on for a Saturday and a Tuesday each week, perhaps, or in another way, the same as a housewife playing the lottery.

The only bit that's illegal for him as a footballer is the period between 1 August 2014 and 13 May 2016. If we use the same pro-rating then we're looking at just over 200 bets.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:06 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:So he's not had his hearing, he's then not gone to appeal (which he probably will) but someone already reckons he's getting a 2 year ban

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:10 pm

I don't understand how they could charge him had he remained a free agent.
Surely all he would have done is packed in english football?

bob-the-scutter · Post by **bob-the-scutter** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:30 pm

Of course the FA cannot legally take away his livelihood, these are only rules and not laws so if he does get a lengthy ban he can take the FA to court.
After all, is what he`s done worse than some of the things that happen in the tunnel at the Emirates or on the pitch every week or worse than John Terry calling Anton Ferdinand a F`ing black C@nt?

Frenchclaret · Post by **Frenchclaret** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:42 pm

He probably knew on Tuesday what the likely scenario would be. For many people that would have preyed on their minds and had a negative effect on their performance. Not Joey! He turned in one of the best performances, probably, of his career. To me, that reflects greatly to his credit and shows what a strong mental attitude he now has.
Good luck Joey with the outcome.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:44 pm

Our ex little right- back Peter Ladbrook

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:47 pm

What I don't get is why they are looking into his bets from 2006 to 2016, when the FA only made it against the rules in 2014.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38421182" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Surely that is only 2 years to take into consideration then?

Enola Gay · Post by **Enola Gay** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Steddyman wrote:What I don't get is why they are looking into his bets from 2006 to 2016, when the FA only made it against the rules in 2014.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38421182" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Surely that is only 2 years to take into consideration then?

Prior to 2014 the rule was that you couldn't bet on games in competitions you were involved in or could influence. Post-2014 it was a complete ban.

The article you've quoted says he's been charged with (and presumably admitted to) breaches of both old and new rules.

As for all the other stuff about who dobbed him in, why they did it, and how there must be other players at it... all irrelevant, really. If he didn't want to get done for rule breaches he shouldn't have broken the rules, especially in so easily traceable a way for someone who seems to like to portray himself as smarter than the average bear.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:07 pm

He never exactly kept quiet about these bets tho.
I can remember seeing his twitter posts from the past talking about the accumulators he had on.

welsbyswife · Post by **welsbyswife** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:14 pm

Diesel wrote:Our ex little right- back Peter Ladbrook

Young Peter Ladbrook.....used to get "Done" on a regular basis

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:18 pm

welsbyswife wrote:Young Peter Ladbrook.....used to get "Done" on a regular basis

Bum, bum...at least someone is getting in the swing of it.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:22 pm

Last one before I go out.

Liverpool wing wizard, Steve Betway

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:36 pm

i begin to dsuspect that betting is known to be rife within football. like Lester Piggott and Ken Dodd, in the past, the FA looked to find a high profile player to send a message. Joey looked good, as he is near the end of his career and yet still high profile. Example will be made.

welsbyswife · Post by **welsbyswife** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:58 pm

Didn't Colin Waldron used to run a bookies when he retired? Suspect it's always been a popular pastime for footballers with money and time on their hands.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:59 pm

welsbyswife wrote:Didn't Colin Waldron used to run a bookies when he retired? Suspect it's always been a popular pastime for footballers with money and time on their hands.

He did. Just behind the Hourglass pub in Nelson

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:56 am

just stumbled across this

"Earlier this season the FA banned non-league Frome Town manager Nick Bunyard for three years after he admitted making just 45 bets."

he did bet against his own teams though

Enola Gay · Post by **Enola Gay** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:37 am

TomBenderson wrote:There were rules pre 2014. Just different rules. I'm sure, whether proven or not, the FA have charged him for offences that were offences under rules that were rules at the time.

They charged him for offences under both sets of rules, and acording to the BBC he's admitted the charge.

I love the guy but if he has been betting on matches he shouldn't have been, he's been spectacularly dense. And if all he has to offer is mitigation, I'm not holding my breath for too positive an outcome.

Bobzuruncle · Post by **Bobzuruncle** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:03 am

Although now against the rules general betting on games you have no influence in is less serious. If he is proven to have laid bets on games he is involved in then that may be viewed differently.

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:26 am

I was looking at the timing of the case against Martin Dimechelis.

On March 30th 2016 there was a story in the press that stated that Martin Dimechelis had been charged with 29 breaches of rule E8.
He was given until 5pm on April 5th to reply. He accepted the charge.
On May 18th 2016 Demichelis fined 22,058 pounds and warned about his future conduct.

According to the daily mail : The offences from Demichelis are not believed to have related to any matches over which he could have had an influence and his punishment is at the lenient end of the spectrum. Professional players must not bet on 'any match or competition in which they participate, or in which they have any influence'.

If we compare that with Joey, he had until Jan 31st to reply. That would imply that with a similar delay Joey could face a hearing on March 12th which is the date of our trip to Liverpool (or perhaps the next round of the FA cup should we beat Lincoln?)

Interestingly the FA rules state the following:

B. A Disciplinary Commission shall not be bound by any enactment or Rule of Law relating to the admissibility of evidence in proceedings before a Court of Law.

Which presumably means that Joey can't use any violation of Data Protection or Privacy law as part of his defence.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:36 am

Joey doesn't really have a defence, he's admitted the FA charges brought against him. He's asked for a personal appearance to try to get a reduction in the punishment.

Also, the rules have very much changed now on betting. It's no longer any matches he could have had an influence on but simply any matches, so any more recent offences can cover any football match whatsoever.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:45 am

Inevitable he will get a long ban and this could be end of his career.

Last 2 games he has been brilliant - so this will be a big blow for us - especially with Jeff's suspension and Defour's hamstring.

At least he will go out on a high - hopefully.

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:55 am

Tony,

When exactly did the rules change?

According to the PFA 28/07/2014 : Put simply the main message for players is: 'You are not allowed to place ANY bet on ANY football, ANYWHERE.'

So surely the rules are the same for Joey as they were for Dimechelis in May 2016? In particular taking into account that any bets that he placed during the period from 24th of May to December have already been covered by the Scottish FA disciplinary procedure and he's already served his ban here in England.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:56 am

dibraidio wrote: Interestingly the FA rules state the following:

B. A Disciplinary Commission shall not be bound by any enactment or Rule of Law relating to the admissibility of evidence in proceedings before a Court of Law.

Which presumably means that Joey can't use any violation of Data Protection or Privacy law as part of his defence.

Joey could legally pursue a claim against the betting company for this violation. I think he would have a very strong chance should he be prevented from earning by their actions.

The FA is a law unto itself, how it thinks it can ignore or dismiss actual law just shows how pompous and self righteous they are.