Team vs Chelsea

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:39 pm

Barnes Vokes
Brady Westwood Barton Gudmundsson
Ward Mee Kean Lowton
Heaton

Probably the four most creative/skillful midfielders available. Use this week to assess fitness levels and see if they can play together.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:47 pm

And you've left Gray out because.....

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:48 pm

How long is Defour out for?

RoystonVasey · Post by **RoystonVasey** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:52 pm

Gray Boyd ???

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:53 pm

Heaton
Lowton Mee Keane Ward
Boyd Westwood Barton Brady
Barnes Vokes

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:53 pm

think we might need a Donald Trump style wall.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:54 pm

Firthy wrote:How long is Defour out for?

One of those as long as it takes hamstring injuries isn't it?

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:59 pm

Heaton
Lowton Mee Keane Ward
Boyd Westwood Barton Brady
Barnes Gray

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:05 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:think we might need a Donald Trump style wall.

It's Chelsea not Mexico

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:06 pm

a game where Barnes would excel, like an irritating wasp, annoying all the sensitive souls in the vicinity.
chelsea are capable of doing the knife through butter routine if anyone reacts too slowly in defence.
I feel we could frustrate them though.
Pity we have to consider changes from recent fixtures, but i reckon whoever plays will be up for a fight.
Gray is vital. I would opt to introduce him later in the game.

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:10 pm

Just Barnes up top.
Someone to track Hazzard

----------------- Heaton
-----Lowton--Keane--Mee-- Ward
------------------Tark
--- Westwood/Arf' ---Barton
Gudmund'/Boyd -----------------Brady
------------------Barnes

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:24 pm

.................Heaton..................
Lowton.....Keane...Tarks........Mee
JBG.........Barton...Ward......Brady
.................Barnes..................
..................Gray...................

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:29 pm

Heaton

Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Barton Westwood
Boyd Arfield Brady
Barnes

Gray doesnt deserve to be dropped but the result is most important here. Our best team for a game like this is (IMO) 5 in midfield and hope for smash and grab. Feel a five man midfield but with licence to attack and support Barnes down the flanks is what we need. Barnes can and will bully their defence. They are a good side, but they play three at the back and without Terry and Ivanovic none are physical enough for Barnes.

Barnes is likely to be better on his own than Gray or even Vokes would. Arfield has the energy (as does Boyd) to make sure we are good without the ball - which is likely to be at least 70 percent of the time. Arfield can get about and can play them creative, quick passes onto Barnes who can hold it up. We then have enough energy from our three midfielders ahead of Barton and Westwood to create something.

Set pieces could be vital for us so wouldnt be surprised to see Tarkowski in.

Gray can come on after Barnes has battered them!

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:05 am

Gray was awful on Saturday thats why most people would swap him for Vokes who is in better goal scoring form.
The way to beat them although it will never happen is play 3 upfront against their 3 central defenders so they get exposed or bring the wing backs back to help. Either way it would be a massive advantage to us.
Play a narrow 3 man central midfield sitting deep so they can't play through us and play long balls up top bypassing their midfield.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:41 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Gray was awful on Saturday thats why most people would swap him for Vokes who is in better goal scoring form.
The way to beat them although it will never happen is play 3 upfront against their 3 central defenders so they get exposed or bring the wing backs back to help. Either way it would be a massive advantage to us.
Play a narrow 3 man central midfield sitting deep so they can't play through us and play long balls up top bypassing their midfield.

We could look to play 433 to be fair as it would surprise them and like you say mean they have to defend more than they would expect.

But cannot see a midfield three. If Defour and Hendrick were available maybe.

MrHungry · Post by **MrHungry** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:55 am

Georgie boyd will run em ragged!! Imo.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:04 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Gray was awful on Saturday thats why most people would swap him for Vokes who is in better goal scoring form.
The way to beat them although it will never happen is play 3 upfront against their 3 central defenders so they get exposed or bring the wing backs back to help. Either way it would be a massive advantage to us.
Play a narrow 3 man central midfield sitting deep so they can't play through us and play long balls up top bypassing their midfield.

We'd get beat six nil.

Have you not watched Burnley in the last three years?

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:15 am

If Barton isn't banned:

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Gudmundsson Westwood Barton Brady
Gray Barnes

If Barton is banned:

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Tarkowski Westwood
Gudmundsson Arfield Brady
Barnes

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:19 am

Let's not forget dyche has had relatively good success playing 442 up against opposition with 3 at the back.

Heaton
Lowton Keane mee ward
Barton Westwood
Boyd arfield
Barnes gray.

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:35 am

............Heaton
Lowton, Keane, Mee, Ward
Boyd, Barton, Westwood, Brady
...................Barnes
..........Gray

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:43 am

Unless we can make arrangements to get a 12th player on the pitch, there's no ideal solution against Chelsea.

However, i do think our usual 442 gives us as good a chance as any. In effect, our midfield 4 will match up against theirs, with our wide players engaging their wing backs, and our narrow back 4 will deal with pedro and Hazard (or Willian). That leaves Barnes and Gray to try and occupy/pressure their centre backs. In some respects, therefore, on paper it is a match up that fits us quite well.

Key will be wide midfielders that are good defensively, have the pace to stay with their men and an engine. So:

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Westwood Brady
Gray Barnes.

Tough on Arfield but i'd expect him to have a role off the bench. Westwood and Barton will need to sit deep to deny space in front of the back 4 and the ones will be on Brady and Boyd to support the front 2 when they can. This is quite a small team so there's an argument for Vokes to help out at set plays, but i suspect the mobility of Barnes and Gray and the options they give us in the channels for quick counters is our best chance.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:52 am

The team above but it will be a tough ask. Really could have done with something from Watford game going into this.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:13 am

Anyone leaving Boyd out does not understand how Dyche thinks.

He may even start Arfield before Brady because Arfield and Boyd understand how we play (defend) better than anyone.

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:16 am

If Dyche decides on five man midfield then

---------Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
----Barton Westwood
Gudmundsson Arfield Brady
---------Barnes

Barton and Westwood need to stay deep and not get drawn out of position.

Mattster · Post by **Mattster** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:19 am

I think Dyche will move Arfield into the middle rather than drop Westwood in to replace Hendrick. Don't think he'll want someone who doesn't fully understand the system in the middle of the park.
Think it'll be

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Arfield Brady
Gray Barnes

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:27 am

Mattster wrote:I think Dyche will move Arfield into the middle rather than drop Westwood in to replace Hendrick. Don't think he'll want someone who doesn't fully understand the system in the middle of the park.
Think it'll be

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Arfield Brady
Gray Barnes

Not the team I would pick Mattster but I think you are right in that Dyche doesn't like too many changes at once and it is his most likely line-up.

Mattster · Post by **Mattster** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:30 am

Mala591 wrote:Not the team I would pick Mattster but I think you are right in that Dyche doesn't like too many changes at once and it is his most likely line-up.

May even go with Gudmondsson instead of Brady for the same reason.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:44 am

claretspice wrote:Unless we can make arrangements to get a 12th player on the pitch, there's no ideal solution against Chelsea.

However, i do think our usual 442 gives us as good a chance as any. In effect, our midfield 4 will match up against theirs, with our wide players engaging their wing backs, and our narrow back 4 will deal with pedro and Hazard (or Willian). That leaves Barnes and Gray to try and occupy/pressure their centre backs. In some respects, therefore, on paper it is a match up that fits us quite well.

Key will be wide midfielders that are good defensively, have the pace to stay with their men and an engine. So:

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Westwood Brady
Gray Barnes.

Tough on Arfield but i'd expect him to have a role off the bench. Westwood and Barton will need to sit deep to deny space in front of the back 4 and the ones will be on Brady and Boyd to support the front 2 when they can. This is quite a small team so there's an argument for Vokes to help out at set plays, but i suspect the mobility of Barnes and Gray and the options they give us in the channels for quick counters is our best chance.

Very difficult to argue with any of that.

KippaxFifaHD · Post by **KippaxFifaHD** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:55 am

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Tarkowski Westwood Arfield
Barnes

Keep it compact in midfield as Chelsea like to start moves from deep with Barnes up top as an outball

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:00 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:We'd get beat six nil.

Have you not watched Burnley in the last three years?

I will be honest and say I'm not one for believing in systems/tactics being that important more how the players perform on the day. If you miss a sitter or score a top corner it doesn't matter what system you play.
For instance we got beat Saturday as Keane was ball watching for their two goals, nowt to do with the extra man as Keane wasn't marking an extra player.

442 is a dream for Chelsea to line up against and 451 is our weakest as we are not very comfortable with the ball in there, plus terrible at crossing the ball at the moment(hopefully Brady can improve this).
The system I described would hopefully smother their attacking play around our area and cause them more problems than they are used to.

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:02 am

KippaxFifaHD wrote:Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Tarkowski Westwood Arfield
Barnes

Keep it compact in midfield as Chelsea like to start moves from deep with Barnes up top as an outball

Arfield over Brady?

KippaxFifaHD · Post by **KippaxFifaHD** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:05 am

Alanstevensonsgloves wrote:Arfield over Brady?

Better defensively imo and we could use Brady as an impact sub with 70 mins to go

IAmAClaret · Post by **IAmAClaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:07 am

Heaton
Lowton Tarkowski Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Westwood Brady
Barnes

Vital that the full backs can push on to get the ball in the box for Barnes, Boyd and Brady to shoot on sight.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:07 am

Got to be 4-1-4-1 with Tarkowski in holding role in front of defence for me.

If we go 4-4-2 were going to get spanked as were not good enough or fast enough, Chelsea will tear us apart.

I'd aim for a point from this game, anything is a bonus, not going to be pretty mind.

Heaton

Lowton Mee Keane Ward

Tarkowski

Boyd Westwood Barton Brady

Vokes

Would bring Barnes on Second half after Vokes has softened up the defenders.

Gray really needs to work on his control for those through balls, he didn't have a good match against Watford.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:09 am

I'd start Gray for the counter attacking threat. Not starting Gray is asking Chelsea very nicely to camp in our half, with little worry of us breaking with pace.

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Westwood Brady
Barnes
Gray

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:12 am

FactualFrank wrote:I'd start Gray for the counter attacking threat. Not starting Gray is asking Chelsea very nicely to camp in our half, with little worry of us breaking with pace.

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Westwood Brady
Barnes
Gray

Have we broke at pace in any game this season?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:17 am

If it is possible to contain Chelsea by playing a defender in front of the back four then:
Heaton
Lowton, Keane, Mee, Ward
Tarkowski
Boyd, Barton, Westwood, Brady
Barnes

If not then Arfield for Tarkowski and 5 across midfield

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:56 pm

I am not sure this is the game to go 4-5-1 with Tarkowski in front of the back 4, for two reasons. Firstly, our wingers are going to be doing a lot of defending, and so if we play with Tarkowski in midfield in a 3, then the lone striker is going to be ridiculously isolated. And secondly, I'm not sure it addresses the challenge Chelsea's system creates. They don't play with one number 10 - the play with what are effectively 2 old-school inside forwards. The best way to neutralise them (and it is very hard to do) is to have a square block of 4 - two centre halves and 2 central midfielders - playing very close together at the heart of the team to deny those two space between the lines. Playing Tarkowski as a "1" confuses this, as he can only deny space to one of Pedro or Hazard at a time. Our full backs (playing narrow themselves) would then pick them up if they drift slightly wider, and also provide cover to the centre backs.

It probably pays to think of our wingers on Saturday as wing-backs - that is in practice how they will play because in this system they will be directly confronting Chelsea's wingers. One thing we have in our favour is that our wingers are much more used than normal to doing a proper defensive shift (you won't see any of our wingers letting Alonso go like Walcott did for Chelsea's first on Saturday), and our full backs are also used to tucking in. Brady may be new to us, but he is used to playing as a wing back so even though he is new to our framework he will have a very good feel for the specific requirements that will be placed on him in tracking Victor Moses. That's why I'd go with him rather than Arfield out there, and Brady's extra yard of pace may help us get some support to the front 2 when we get a chance to break.

This is roughly the game plan employed against Liverpool and away at Spurs this season with some success against teams playing a not totally dissimilar system, and its also broadly the way we beat City at Burnley 2 years ago (again - they used a similar though not identical system that day). We won't press that high and we'll probably be fairly happy for the Chelsea defenders plus Matic and Kante to have the ball.

I'd play Westwood ahead of Arfield (or Tarkowski) in the middle because i'd see those central midfielders sitting deep, and Westwood is probably most suited to that role, but also to releasing us quickly when we want to counter attack because he has a decent range of passing.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:02 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:And you've left Gray out because.....

I'm gonna guess that you weren't at Watford when we went down to 10 men and then 9 when Gray was completely intimidated by Younes Kaboul
going through the motions whilst Ashley Barnes was in full combat mode but unsupported.
Gray is dangerous on his day but is coming across in too many away games against big centre halves as very lightweight.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:03 pm

Mala591 wrote:Barnes Vokes
Brady Westwood Barton Gudmundsson
Ward Mee Kean Lowton
Heaton

Probably the four most creative/skillful midfielders available. Use this week to assess fitness levels and see if they can play together.

Have you put the team in reverse order to demonstrate a backs to the wall strategy against Chelski?

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:05 pm

Were going to be defending a lot so we might as well set up that way and hope someone gets a goal from a set piece cos we aint going to run through them as we have no pace!

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:07 pm

Mala591 wrote:Barnes Vokes
Brady Westwood Barton Gudmundsson
Ward Mee Kean Lowton
Heaton

Probably the four most creative/skillful midfielders available. Use this week to assess fitness levels and see if they can play together.

He'll always play Boyd, which I get but disagree with.
He'll play Gray and at home this is a good gamble, his one off explosive goals can win a game (for me he doesn't turn up away from home)

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:15 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Have we broke at pace in any game this season?

Yes a 90th minute winner at home from the edge of our box, we were at the other end scoring in a couple of heart beats and a prayer. Possibly more but that one resulted in a goal. UTC

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:17 pm

vinrogue wrote:Yes a 90th minute winner at home from the edge of our box, we were at the other end scoring in a couple of heart beats and a prayer. Possibly more but that one resulted in a goal. UTC

Yeah we did against Everton and Palace but neither involved Gray.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:18 pm

Team I expect is:
Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Barton Arfield Brady
Barnes Gray

Don't think he'll play Westwood due to Dyche fitness
Brady is match fit if not SD fit but we're desperate
Don't know if JBG is fully fit? These hamstrings are an issue for little fast guys.

I would play:
Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
JBG Westwood Barton Brady
Barnes Gray

Vokes Tarkowski and Arfield to come on around 65/70
JBG and Westwood will tire
Gray off if he's sluggish Barnes off if Gray is a danger.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:17 pm

Heaton
Lowton Mee Keane Ward
Boyd Westwood Barton Brady
Barnes Vokes
I think Grey needs to be dropped to the bench his performance levels are not up to scratch and not doing the scrappy things to try and get on to things that are 50/50 or taking a gamble
With a good set piece specialist in Brady, Vokes needs to be in there winning the aerials and is good at dropping in at defending the set pieces as well
Keep thing tight with two banks of 4, the set pieces will give us the best chance of getting anything from this game
Their defence has tightened up now and it will be difficult playing through them hitting long balls is not the answer too
Closing them down quickly harrying harassing and in there faces is the way forward and getting some su in our boots UTC

Holtyclaret · Post by **Holtyclaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:29 pm

KippaxFifaHD wrote:Better defensively imo and we could use Brady as an impact sub with 70 mins to go

Brady is very good at left back or left wing, much better defensively than arfield who is just a trier. I love Arfield but Brady is his upgrade.

Holtyclaret · Post by **Holtyclaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:36 pm

Gray struggled on Saturday because he became the lone striker.

His pace is a key weapon on Sunday, it'll stop them piling forward. He also doesn't tend to have two 'bad' games on the trot, he'll be fired up for this one.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:27 pm

Suspect Sean has difficult decisions but in view of Westwood's newness may plump for Scotty to start as well ie

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Arfield Westwood Barton Brady
Barnes Gray

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:05 pm

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
JBG Westwood Barton Brady
Gray Barnes