Andre Gray

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:23 pm

Saxoman wrote:A question..

Would you swap gray straight for Jordan Rhodes?

Nah. Nothing suggests he would do any better.

mrhungryone · Post by **mrhungryone** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:48 pm

Andre finding his feet in the premiershp ... like burnley. Watch him go next season,sd as given most of the promotion winning lads their chance and has now added to the squad with next season in mind playing in the premiership.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:52 pm

Damo wrote:Gray isn't as potent as Defoe and Ibra.
We should sack him now.
Completely letting the rest of the team down based on that performance yesterday

My comment re Ibrahimovic's goal today was intended as an opportunity for Andre Gray to learn how top strikers do it. Something to inspire him and to aim to emulate and better. Andre has got time to do this. He will still be playing when both Defoe and Ibrahimovic have retired.

Of course, I know that you also know that.

UTC

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:28 am

Do you think his performance on Saturday had anything to do with the fact it coincided with the release of "50 Shades Darker":-o

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:42 am

Saxoman wrote:A question..

Would you swap gray straight for Jordan Rhodes?

No but I'd be interested to see what they'd be like as a partnership.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:25 pm

Sorry have I missed something? What's Jermain Defoe got to do with anything?

snapcrackleandpop · Post by **snapcrackleandpop** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:40 pm

He couldn't trap his fingers in a car door never mind trap a ball and that's his problem.

ShabbaRanks · Post by **ShabbaRanks** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:53 pm

Saxoman wrote:A question..

Would you swap gray straight for Jordan Rhodes?

I wouldn't swap him for Rhodes but if it was true that West Ham fancy him for 15m It would require serious thought.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:31 pm

My main concern about Gray is that he always seems to shoot at the first opportunity which is great if he scores. I sometimes feel he could take a step or two closer to goal or try and turn inside the defender to get a better shot on goal. But I've seen many strikers take one touch too many and lose the opportunity so not sure it would help him. He has a great shot on him but not sure his control is all it could be.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:51 pm

" if it was true that West Ham fancy him for 15m It would require serious thought."

In fairness to Andre better quality of delivery would help him. I agree though that he does struggle with his first touch. To me he often looks as though he's already got in his head what he going to do with it before realising he has to get control of it first. Its not as daft as it sounds though getting a finishing striker in on the coaching staff. It might just do the trick.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:52 pm

That total miss kick after the ball was pulled back was under 12 stuff.

He tries to hit the ball too hard IMO. His main technique is smash the ball as hard as he can at goal.
Great if it goes in or the Keeper isn't set and fluffs it, but 80% of the time it flies aimlessly wide or high into the stands.

We don't create much, we need someone who is composed and knows a variety of finishes.

The other bad miss from the free kick, he went with his right, when any scorer goes across goal with their left.

Gray was as much to blame as anyone for burnley going out.

Lets hope he can win us a game or 2 before the end of the season, as his confidence looks shot.

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:24 pm

It was fine until this spice girl turned up

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:31 pm

From non league to premier league.

A hat trick in your first season on the prem.

Your teams top scorer

Dating a fit pop star.

Andre. Where did it all go wrong?

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:42 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:From non league to premier league.

A hat trick in your first season on the prem.

Your teams top scorer

Dating a fit pop star.

Andre. Where did it all go wrong?

Not doing very well is he?

Not according to some of the experts on here anyway.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:45 pm

Tomorrow's chip paper I'm afraid.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:46 pm

His hat trick was only against Sunderland though.

According to some, every striker could score one against them!

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:52 pm

It was always going to be tough at this level for Andre. Defenders are positinally better, stronger, faster. In a team with limited quality in the final third, coupled with his questionable first touch and lack of ability to stay onside at the vital moment, he'll be lucky to break into double figures.

Having said that, he's arguably the best we've got to work with, so I'd sooner get behind him than give him grief. He's heavily reliant on confidence and a lack of support from the fans will only make matters worse.

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:53 am

"Having said that, he's arguably the best we've got to work with, so I'd sooner get behind him than give him grief. He's heavily reliant on confidence and a lack of support from the fans will only make matters worse."

Pity a few more fans don't take that view.

Fans are aware of his obvious shortcomings (which hopefully he will improve upon), but some are blind to his talents.

Call me old fashioned, but 29 goals in 60 seems a fantastic return.

Yes we know the bulk were in the Championship and as we all know any striker can score 20 odd in that division along with a hat trick against Sunderland.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:26 am

As blind as some of us apparently are to his strengths, (I don't think I am btw, I just think he's a technically poor footballer) equally there are those who merely quote stats that suggest he is on a par with other 1 in 2 strikers, and suggest he's having a great first season in the PL. And that's just wrong.

I had a bet with someone on here (proceeds to THE YOUTH FOUNDATION) that he wouldn't score double figures in the PL this season. I'd love to be wrong, truly I would, but I think we all know my money's safe.

We discuss his ability and performances on here, and in the pub. At the games I've yet to hear anyone booing him or giving him less support than they should, so no ones giving him any grief that's likely to adversely affect performances.

Like I said earlier, I like gray. He's strong and powerful, and when he operates with no thinking time, he's instinctive. But he's no footballer. And he doesn't show any signs of improvement in that area.

I think an earlier poster may have hit the nail on the head by suggesting he decides what to do too early, and as a result doesn't play "in the moment" and deal with whatever or wherever the football is or where it wants to go.

Not sure whether I'd swap him for Rhodes. Not sure he does enough work off the ball for me, but I'd certainly take McCormack in a one for one deal. Same goes for our three ex strikers discussed on here.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:35 am

bobinho wrote:I had a bet with someone on here (proceeds to THE YOUTH FOUNDATION) that he wouldn't score double figures in the PL this season. I'd love to be wrong, truly I would, but I think we all know my money's safe.

Really? You know that he won't score 4 more goals this season?

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:38 am

Rileybobs wrote:Really? You know that he won't score 4 more goals this season?

Remarkable confidence, particularly when we have a return match with Sunderland to come, against whose defence I think Bobinho said anyone could score a hat-trick when he was so keen to deny Gray any credit for the one he's already scored earlier in the thread.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:51 am

Maybe "know" is wrong. I would say the odds are against him. I watch him EVERY week as I'm sure you do. He is a confidence player, but that confidence only seems to last a short while, maybe twenty minutes into a game and then when the ball he wants goes to SV, you can actually SEE his head go down. Equally when he spurns another good chance, he looks like he's going to start scriking. At that point he is no longer in the game. He's ineffective. At the moment he is out of sorts. I can't explain it. The confidence he played with against Sunderland is long gone. We could still be playing against NON LEAGUE Lincoln now, and he still wouldn't have scored.

At the start of the season, would you have bet that AG would score a PL hat trick? Six goals this season so far and three were in one game.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:53 am

bobinho wrote:As blind as some of us apparently are to his strengths, (I don't think I am btw, I just think he's a technically poor footballer) equally there are those who merely quote stats that suggest he is on a par with other 1 in 2 strikers, and suggest he's having a great first season in the PL. And that's just wrong.

Why is that wrong and how do you define whether a striker is have a first great season or not if he's on a par with many good strikers this season?

Facts don't lie. 30 goals in 60 matches for us is a fantastic return (7 at a higher level), unless scoring goals shouldn't be used to judge a striker. Even Jay-Rod wasn't as productive in front of goal for us. He got 41 goals in 143 matches for us and they were all at Championship level.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:06 am

claretspice wrote:Remarkable confidence, particularly when we have a return match with Sunderland to come, against whose defence I think Bobinho said anyone could score a hat-trick when he was so keen to deny Gray any credit for the one he's already scored earlier in the thread.

First of all, I denied him no credit for the hat trick against Sunderland. He played superbly that day. But let's not forget that Sunderland were shockingly bad that day, and had djilibodje in their back four, who is as bad as a centre half I have seen. And I've seen LEON CORT!!! By pointing out that Sunderland were bad takes nothing away from AG. He had still to finish those chances, and he did so very well.

Secondly, I will happily make a bet with you right now, that AG will NOT score a hat trick against Sunderland away. They won't be as bad as they were here, and I'm acknowledging that AG's performance that day as good as it was, was a one off. My point about gray getting the three against them was simply they were AWFUL, and gray did well on the day. But you knew that, right?

Winnings to the youth foundation. Fancy it? Nah... you won't make that bet. You may not agree with my thoughts on AG, but you lack confidence and belief in your own belief in his ability.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:12 am

bobinho wrote:Maybe "know" is wrong. I would say the odds are against him. I watch him EVERY week as I'm sure you do. He is a confidence player, but that confidence only seems to last a short while, maybe twenty minutes into a game and then when the ball he wants goes to SV, you can actually SEE his head go down. Equally when he spurns another good chance, he looks like he's going to start scriking. At that point he is no longer in the game. He's ineffective. At the moment he is out of sorts. I can't explain it. The confidence he played with against Sunderland is long gone. We could still be playing against NON LEAGUE Lincoln now, and he still wouldn't have scored.

At the start of the season, would you have bet that AG would score a PL hat trick? Six goals this season so far and three were in one game.

He's made 17 starts and scored 6 goals. I'm not sure I'd say he's odds on to score less than 4 in the remaining 13 games.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:12 am

In a better team that could pass the ball along the floor and open teams up he'd flourish. He's been judged because he works on scraps every week because we have no creativity at all.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:13 am

KRBFC wrote:In a better team that could pass the ball along the floor and open teams up he'd flourish. He's been judged because he works on scraps every week because we have no creativity at all.

Bloody hell, it only took one defeat to change your mood.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:29 am

Spijed wrote:Why is that wrong and how do you define whether a striker is have a first great season or not if he's on a par with many good strikers this season?

Facts don't lie. 30 goals in 60 matches for us is a fantastic return (7 at a higher level), unless scoring goals shouldn't be used to judge a striker. Even Jay-Rod wasn't as productive in front of goal for us. He got 41 goals in 143 matches for us and they were all at Championship level.

I define it by how well a player played and how many goals he scored in relation to how many chances he gets.

This might be a strange way of putting it but here's a scenario. Gray gets 12 goals this season let's say. Is it a fact? Let's say yes it is. How many chances did he get? 15? Superb season. 115? He's had a shocker, the facts have lied(or at least not told the full story). He got 15 but he SHOULDVE got 50. Who were the goals against? How good were the opponents? How many penalties? Did he just get 4 hat tricks? The facts have lied, or again not told the whole story. He only scored in four games, and that won't keep us up.

Like I say, I may not be as articulate as most in getting my point across, but please let's not kid ourselves that any less than ten goals this year is a good season. It's just not. Irrespective where he's come from, or how fast his rise to the PL has been.

He's a late developer, but that development seems to have halted for me.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:31 am

KRBFC wrote:In a better team that could pass the ball along the floor and open teams up he'd flourish. He's been judged because he works on scraps every week because we have no creativity at all.

Jamie Vardy is a prime example. In his first season at PL level he got 5 goals. Last season he couldn't miss with Kante, Drinkwater & Mahrez providing the passes for him to latch onto. This season, without the supply he's struggling once again.

Bobhino, how do you rate Vardy btw?

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:31 am

Rileybobs wrote:He's made 17 starts and scored 6 goals. I'm not sure I'd say he's odds on to score less than 4 in the remaining 13 games.

Fair point rileybobs, but I'm not looking at stats. Last years stats suggest he will get another 19. I'm looking at performances. And I don't see him breaking into double figures based on that.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:34 am

bobinho wrote:I define it by how well a player played and how many goals he scored in relation to how many chances he gets.

This might be a strange way of putting it but here's a scenario. Gray gets 12 goals this season let's say. Is it a fact? Let's say yes it is. How many chances did he get? 15? Superb season. 115? He's had a shocker, the facts have lied(or at least not told the full story). He got 15 but he SHOULDVE got 50. Who were the goals against? How good were the opponents? How many penalties? Did he just get 4 hat tricks? The facts have lied, or again not told the whole story. He only scored in four games, and that won't keep us up.

Like I say, I may not be as articulate as most in getting my point across, but please let's not kid ourselves that any less than ten goals this year is a good season. It's just not. Irrespective where he's come from, or how fast his rise to the PL has been.

He's a late developer, but that development seems to have halted for me.

You do realise the golden boot is awarded to the player scoring the most goals, regardless of who they and how they are scored against.

And how many chances per game do you think we create? I can't recollect that many away from home, for example.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:43 am

Spijed wrote:Jamie Vardy is a prime example. In his first season at PL level he got 5 goals. Last season he couldn't miss with Kante, Drinkwater & Mahrez providing the passes for him to latch onto. This season, without the supply he's struggling once again.

Bobhino, how do you rate Vardy btw?

I rate him very well. He still has Mahrez and drinkwater supplying the passes btw. He's quick, but multifaceted. He's good with the ball at his feet going forward with the ball close to him, but sometimes makes the wrong choice. With his back to goal outside the box he is not at his most threatening, but he takes the ball well and brings in others, turning sharply and getting into space quickly. The return ball isn't there for him right now, but that's not his fault. He gets he ball anywhere near the six yard line and you'd back him to score.
You might say there are similarities between what I've just said about JV and AG, but there are elements missing from AG's game that make him considerably less effective. He can't control the ball, a simple requirement. He does it so often, when he actually DOES get the ball under control you'd think it was an accident! You see frustration in him when he screws up or misses easy chances, and that's a good hing as it shows he cares, but if he thinks THATS frustrating, he should try watching himself!

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:48 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Bloody hell, it only took one defeat to change your mood.

Sorry?
my mood hasn't changed, I think we lack creativity and hoof it too much. I never thought any different but I can't argue with results. I'm not going to start tearing into Dyche on here because he's going to keep us up when I doubted him, so fair play. It doesn't mean I think we're perfect though.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:09 pm

bobinho wrote:I define it by how well a player played and how many goals he scored in relation to how many chances he gets.

This might be a strange way of putting it but here's a scenario. Gray gets 12 goals this season let's say. Is it a fact? Let's say yes it is. How many chances did he get? 15? Superb season. 115? He's had a shocker, the facts have lied(or at least not told the full story). He got 15 but he SHOULDVE got 50. Who were the goals against? How good were the opponents? How many penalties? Did he just get 4 hat tricks? The facts have lied, or again not told the whole story. He only scored in four games, and that won't keep us up.

Like I say, I may not be as articulate as most in getting my point across, but please let's not kid ourselves that any less than ten goals this year is a good season. It's just not. Irrespective where he's come from, or how fast his rise to the PL has been.

He's a late developer, but that development seems to have halted for me.

You're talking out of your arsehole and I'll be the one to say it.
Our system doesn't suit him, our tactics away from home don't suit him, the lone forward surrounded by 4 defenders doesn't suit him, the long punt up to a striker doesn't suit him. I don't recall Gray having many goalscoring opportunities away from home this season, how is a striker supposed to score without being given the opportunity? How many goalscoring opportunities would you say has had away from home this season? One at Spurs, now i'm struggling.... what about the rest of the team? how many chances have we created away from home this season? how many shots on target? The only big chance missed away from home that stands out is the Gray miss at WHL.

We don't create many chances at all, it must be frustrating for Gray playing upfront for us. We don't play to his strengths, he's absolutely dire in the air but we play long balls. Vokes' best asset is attacking the ball with his head from crosses into the box (Darikwa cross at Leeds, goal for Wales in Euros) yet we rarely swing crosses in. (I don't think Arfield has crossed a ball since he arrived) We play wingers on the opposite side to allow the fullbacks to overlap, but the fullbacks can't cross for toffee.

You could say ''look at the league table we are doing well considering we don't play to Gray/Vokes' strength'' and I'd agree which is why you can't really criticise either of them IMO. Isit any wonder why the strikers aren't looking amazing when we are playing wingers for defensive ability over attacking qualities. When watching Gray play, I'm frustrated for him quite often, while he's all alone upfront expected to chase long balls and beat 4 defenders. (mainly away from home) I know as soon as the game is done, he will be criticised unfairly having been hung out to dry.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:37 pm

I think we need to give Gray some more time in the hope he does develop and improve.
He's come a long way in a short time and I'm sure Dyche and the backroom staff are
working on helping him get better albeit not many signs of that occurring at present.

He's still our most potent threat up front and does try hard but does quickly get disappointed
when he misses chances.

A few goals in the next few games and all will be well.
Let's hope we can create a few more chances for him and he steps up and buries them.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:41 pm

bobinho wrote:Maybe "know" is wrong. I would say the odds are against him. I watch him EVERY week as I'm sure you do. He is a confidence player, but that confidence only seems to last a short while, maybe twenty minutes into a game and then when the ball he wants goes to SV, you can actually SEE his head go down. Equally when he spurns another good chance, he looks like he's going to start scriking. At that point he is no longer in the game. He's ineffective. At the moment he is out of sorts. I can't explain it. The confidence he played with against Sunderland is long gone. We could still be playing against NON LEAGUE Lincoln now, and he still wouldn't have scored.

At the start of the season, would you have bet that AG would score a PL hat trick? Six goals this season so far and three were in one game.

A different Andre to the one I watch. His main attribute is that missing doesn't phase him. He misses mostly because despite having the heart and speed he lacks in technique.
Now this is something the club should be working on, but I honestly believe they don't. He has shown strides in dealing with the premier league and feeding off scraps, but his technique is as poor as the day he arrived.
Tactically we are normally solid as a rock. Physically we put in more effort than any other team in the prem. Technically we are lacking. The new signings have obviously been brought in to address this, but why can't we work on improving the players already here.
Do we even have a technical coach?

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:05 pm

KRBFC wrote: Our system doesn't suit him

We don't play to his strengths

Our system suits us, a collection of 11 players. We play to our strengths, not one player's strength.

We play wingers on the opposite side to allow the fullbacks to overlap

If you think that is the only reason then you're clueless.

You could say ''look at the league table we are doing well considering we don't play to Gray/Vokes' strength'' and I'd agree which is why you can't really criticise either of them IMO.

And that's why you can't criticise the system either.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:09 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Our system suits us, a collection of 11 players. We play to our strengths, not one player's strength.

If you think that is the only reason then you're clueless.

And that's why you can't criticise the system either.

Something tells me our system isn't working away from home .

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:11 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Our system suits us, a collection of 11 players. We play to our strengths, not one player's strength.

If you think that is the only reason then you're clueless.

And that's why you can't criticise the system either.

You're correct, btw I didn't say it was the only reason either, I said it's one of the reasons. I do believe the system can be criticised away from home. I think he is being unfairly criticised and have given my explanation as to why I think that.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:13 pm

joey13 wrote:Something tells me our system isn't working away from home .

Something tells me that it has been working to a point in the last two months or so.

Something else tells me we don't have the players good enough (yet) to be turning teams over away from home in this league.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:26 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:A different Andre to the one I watch. His main attribute is that missing doesn't phase him. He misses mostly because despite having the heart and speed he lacks in technique.
Now this is something the club should be working on, but I honestly believe they don't. He has shown strides in dealing with the premier league and feeding off scraps, but his technique is as poor as the day he arrived.
Tactically we are normally solid as a rock. Physically we put in more effort than any other team in the prem. Technically we are lacking. The new signings have obviously been brought in to address this, but why can't we work on improving the players already here.
Do we even have a technical coach?

You know what colburn, whilst I disagree that missing doesn't affect him, what you have posted is pretty much what I have been trying to get across when discussing AG. His technique is poor and hasn't improved since he arrived. He's as good a footballer as he is going to get imho.

I have no doubt he's been looked at by other clubs, and they have stayed away so far. If he IS the great striker who clubs should build a team around, the sort of striker who should have teams playing to HIS strengths, he could already have been poached and replaced the 12 goal a season striker Giroud at arsenal. I'm sure their midfield could feed him the balls he needs to make him a 25 goal a season PL striker. But they haven't, have they? Why is that?. Because they know his game and his technical ability is extremely limited at this level.
Is he good enough for us right now? Yes, he probably is. But if we have any real desire and expectation to thrive at this level, to maintain PL status with games to spare, we will need to replace him. That or change the whole ethos of the club/team to accommodate him. What would YOU do?

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:53 pm

bobinho wrote:You know what colburn, whilst I disagree that missing doesn't affect him, what you have posted is pretty much what I have been trying to get across when discussing AG. His technique is poor and hasn't improved since he arrived. He's as good a footballer as he is going to get imho.

I have no doubt he's been looked at by other clubs, and they have stayed away so far. If he IS the great striker who clubs should build a team around, the sort of striker who should have teams playing to HIS strengths, he could already have been poached and replaced the 12 goal a season striker Giroud at arsenal. I'm sure their midfield could feed him the balls he needs to make him a 25 goal a season PL striker. But they haven't, have they? Why is that?. Because they know his game and his technical ability is extremely limited at this level.
Is he good enough for us right now? Yes, he probably is. But if we have any real desire and expectation to thrive at this level, to maintain PL status with games to spare, we will need to replace him. That or change the whole ethos of the club/team to accommodate him. What would YOU do?

bobinho, you are still ignoring the point that he is an extremely successful goal scorer. Absolutely nobody can deny, that 29 from 60 in the Championship/Prem is extremely impressive.

This is his first season in the Prem and as has been quoted in this thread a number of times, the service he gets from our current line up/system is poor. He is still very likely to hit double figures despite this.

I have already said to you before, focus on his strengths, no one is trying to claim he is a world beater, but he is a proven goal scorer and unsettles defences with his pace and power. I am convinced with a better supply next season he will be looking at 15 upwards, which will be excellent for us in the Prem.

I am a gambling man and convinced he will finish on 10 or more goals this season, you seem convinced that he wont.

I will happily have £100 bet with you that he will if interested?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:06 pm

And I think he can only play 32 matches in total this season, not the full 38.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:15 pm

bobinho wrote:You know what colburn, whilst I disagree that missing doesn't affect him, what you have posted is pretty much what I have been trying to get across when discussing AG. His technique is poor and hasn't improved since he arrived. He's as good a footballer as he is going to get imho.

I have no doubt he's been looked at by other clubs, and they have stayed away so far. If he IS the great striker who clubs should build a team around, the sort of striker who should have teams playing to HIS strengths, he could already have been poached and replaced the 12 goal a season striker Giroud at arsenal. I'm sure their midfield could feed him the balls he needs to make him a 25 goal a season PL striker. But they haven't, have they? Why is that?. Because they know his game and his technical ability is extremely limited at this level.
Is he good enough for us right now? Yes, he probably is. But if we have any real desire and expectation to thrive at this level, to maintain PL status with games to spare, we will need to replace him. That or change the whole ethos of the club/team to accommodate him. What would YOU do?

Why will we need to replace him if we're to survive? we are going to survive with him, what's going to change? We're not Arsenal, we're a million miles away. We aren't competing for the same players, we may aswell not be in the same league tbh.

You can say the same about Keane/Heaton, why aren't they at Barcelona if they're so great like people on here think?
We wouldn't get any better than Gray/Keane/Heaton but clubs like Arsenal already have better.

We don't need to change the whole ethos of the club to accommodate him, it's called progression. Fine tuning the system to fit others as we progress and sign more and more players. The system progresses as the quality of the squad grows. The current system could also be better for players like Gray if we had better players than we currently have. Example being, I have no doubt Gray would be a more effective striker if he was partnered with someone other than Barnes/Vokes. Gray would be fed better quality if we had Trippier at fullback and not Lowton. I believe Gray will benefit hugely having Brady on the wing and not Arfield.

Strikers thrive on service and are judged on goals, it's just how it is. If a striker isn't given service then only the world class players can score regularly. Unfortunately we aren't in a position to have the luxury of world class players at our disposal, we have mostly Championship players hoping to make the grade and step up, so far we're doing ok looking at the table and that's all that matters. Why does it matter how many goals X player scores if the team is winning games and hitting targets set? I personally couldn't care less how many goals Andre scores from now until the end of the season so long as we gain enough points to survive.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:31 pm

bobinho wrote:You know what colburn, whilst I disagree that missing doesn't affect him, what you have posted is pretty much what I have been trying to get across when discussing AG. His technique is poor and hasn't improved since he arrived. He's as good a footballer as he is going to get imho.

I have no doubt he's been looked at by other clubs, and they have stayed away so far. If he IS the great striker who clubs should build a team around, the sort of striker who should have teams playing to HIS strengths, he could already have been poached and replaced the 12 goal a season striker Giroud at arsenal. I'm sure their midfield could feed him the balls he needs to make him a 25 goal a season PL striker. But they haven't, have they? Why is that?. Because they know his game and his technical ability is extremely limited at this level.
Is he good enough for us right now? Yes, he probably is. But if we have any real desire and expectation to thrive at this level, to maintain PL status with games to spare, we will need to replace him. That or change the whole ethos of the club/team to accommodate him. What would YOU do?

Agree about Andre, but not how to deal with him. My argument is that the coaches should be working on his deficiencies, not making the most of what he's got.
I'm sure Ronaldo, Messi et al work on their technique all the time. Nobody should be saying this is it, this is what I am, take me or leave me.
It was exciting 2 years ago to buy Agyei, Long, Darikwa, Ginelly but none of them are progressing. That has to be the club's failure, not theirs. Why are Scotty and Boyd still unable to cross a ball. You could teach a 10 year old and improve him, even if he never becomes a world beater.
Without being in the know I suspect we over concentrate on tactics and fitness and ignore actually improving what we've got.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:26 pm

Tell you what 3putt.

I'll have a bet with you, and I'm no gambling man.

Bet is £100 stake. Winnings to the youth foundation or a charity of the winners choice. And the bet takes two parts. Conditions are, both parts to come in or no bet.

1st part I say AG won't score double figures in the PL (no cup goals, unless against PL opposition, no penalties, cos that's not a strikers goal), you say 10 or more.
2nd part I say AG won't score 15 goals for Burnley in the PL next season - you suggest he might/will (again, no cup goals, no penalties), you say 16 or more.

Id love him to achieve both those things, I really would. I cheer his every goal, and I sing his name from the stands, whether he's scored or whether he's just missed, or whether I see his head go down cos he's ****** off. But I just don't believe he's good enough for this level.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:53 pm

Here's our saviour. Darren Bent. Oops. I meant Barren Dent.

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:03 pm

bobhino,

One bet at a time eh. The bet I offered to you is that AG will score 10 or more PL goals this season, he has already scored 6 so only needs 4 more. I'm afraid penalties count, they are still very much a goal and he is not an automatic choice for pens anyway.

I said that I am convinced that he will score 15 or more next season with better supply. Supply being the operative word, he will need better service to score that many and so I need to see who we bring in in the summer before taking up that offer.

My original offer of a bet still stands if you are interested.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:32 am

bobinho

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:55 am

Hi bobhino,

You should have accepted my bet as offered above without applying those conditions #196. (particularly the bit about penalties not counting).

I did offer the bet again #198. You would of won.

Disappointed that Gray didn't get a few more, then again he hasn't started many games recently. Still a big believer in his potential. Hope he stays and that we are able to give him better supply next season.