Corbyn or Trump

[Imploding Turtle]

Ah my dear friend Turtle taking the stand on one of his most favorite subjects left versus right wing views. You my friend are no fan of democracy it's your way or the highway. And you are certainly not immune to criticism you can give plenty out, can't take it though for sure.

Where did I refer to left v right views in the post you quoted? The post you quoted want even about political views, it was about trying to discuss things with closed minded people, like Right-winger.

[Imploding Turtle]

The whining word again? That's a most unpleasant word Turtle which in your book only applies to those on the right.

You think someone who is repeatedly criticised for calling people like you "idiots" has ever suggested on here, or anywhere, that it is only those on the right that use unpleasant language?

[android]

In reply to IT Post 85. Sorry IT but there were no strong examples for me to pick! Maybe I was guilty of picking a very weak example in your weak list of why Trump's a fascist.

Presumably you accept that my summary of your Washington Post article was fair - he talks to Putin, likes strong government and strong corporations = fascist.

I do believe that the Trump's a fascist / Nazi / Hitler hysteria is going to be counterproductive in opposing him.

[Imploding Turtle]

I think the problem you're having is that you're looking at each piece of evidence in isolation and demanding that it alone prove he's a fascist.

What I'm saying is that all these pieces of evidence together add up to demonstrating that he's a fascist. Without doubt some pieces of evidence are weaker than others, and I swear that when I went through them for the first time I made a mental note that someone's opinion doesn't really count as evidence when compared to his own words and actions.

As I've noted, he doesn't perfectly fit the mould of a fascist yet but he's only been in power for a month, and I'm sure even Hitler had some holes in his fascism CV but with Trump they're so few that I think calling him a fascist is a perfectly fair assessment of his broad views.

What other ideology does he fit better?

[ClaretMoffitt]

I think the problem you're having is that you're looking at each piece of evidence in isolation and demanding that it alone prove he's a fascist.

What I'm saying is that all these pieces of evidence together add up to demonstrating that he's a fascist. Without doubt some pieces of evidence are weaker than others, and I swear that when I went through them for the first time I made a mental note that someone's opinion doesn't really count as evidence when compared to his own words and actions.

As I've noted, he doesn't perfectly fit the mould of a fascist yet but he's only been in power for a month, and I'm sure even Hitler had some holes in his fascism CV but with Trump they're so few that I think calling him a fascist is a perfectly fair assessment of his broad views.

What other ideology does he fit better?

He has authoritarian tendencies, but he isn't a fascist. Everyone is a fascist these days lets face it. Nigel Farage is a fascist, Teresa May is a fascist, Trump, Le Penn, Geert wilders. They are all fascists. Basically anyone in politics who isn't a neo-liberal or towards the left is a fascist.

[Imploding Turtle]

He has authoritarian tendencies, but he isn't a fascist. Everyone is a fascist these days lets face it. Nigel Farage is a fascist, Teresa May is a fascist, Trump, Le Penn, Geert wilders. They are all fascists. Basically anyone in politics who isn't a neo-liberal or towards the left is a fascist.

This is a stupid argument. You're esencially saying that because the word "fascism" is overused it means no one can possibly be a fascist. Your argument is genuinely pathetic.

[Clarets4me]

This is a stupid argument. You're esencially saying that because the word "fascism" is overused it means no one can possibly be a fascist. Your argument is genuinely pathetic.

So you'd agree, I presume, that North Korea, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia and Iran are " de facto " Fascist states ?

[Imploding Turtle]

They're definitely dictatorial and totalitarian but not necessarily fascist. I'd have to look into them more because another descriptor might better describe them.

[android]

It was your list IT not mine so there is no problem and I'm not demanding anything. I just don't agree that the fascist label is sensible opposition. It's a short step to Hitler talk, as you have illustrated, which just makes it easier for Trump to dismiss his critics.

[Imploding Turtle]

Well, OK. I think it is sensible to call a fascist a fascist. More than that i think we have an obligation not to pretend that people like Trump aren't fascists. We'd basically be burying our heads in the sand and when has that ever done us any good?

[ClaretMoffitt]

This is a stupid argument. You're esencially saying that because the word "fascism" is overused it means no one can possibly be a fascist. Your argument is genuinely pathetic.

Lol wat.

[Healeywoodclaret]

I'd like to - not the candy floss and motorbikes but a world where everyone loved one another (in the generalised / sort of biblical sense that "spreading the love" implies) would be much better than what we have now, wouldn't it?

I'm not saying that's possible, but the point of my question to you was that there's nothing wrong with that as a concept, is there? The way you used "spreading the love" pejoratively sort of suggests that you'd prefer a world with more hate (or at least, less love) in it.

Absolutely nothing wrong with spreading the love Greenmile. Living in a world where everyone loves and looks after each other would be marvellous. But it's not possible. Unfortunately our species has the capacity for greed, jealousy and hatred.

[Imploding Turtle]

Add it to the mountain of evidence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 04836.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a dark path America is taking, and that some of you seem OK with. It's like the first half of last century taught you nothing. There are too many Chamberlains.

[willsclarets]

As noted the definition is somewhat blurred, and it has to as the zeitgeist changes; fascism in an age where PR is king and every utterance is scrutinised is very different to a much more simplistic propaganda machine characterised by the 1930s. Trump has all the hallmarks of a facist without the means to implement some of his self evident and horrific positions on nationalism, race and global politics. He simply can't do what I've no doubt he has wet dreams about. I accept its conjecture, but is Trump really a fan of liberal democracy? It put him where he is, but his attitude even toward the election he won screams that he opposes the ideology. Add to that his aggression toward free press and any opposing opinion for a starter. The man is a facist, he just doesn't have the tools he wishes he had.

[Lancasterclaret]

Not yet, but those tools are voted in by people worried about internal and external threats.

Its a good job that Trump isn't highlighting them.......oh

[Spijed]

Donald Trump highlighted one of the external threats, the fact that ISIS behead people, according to him something that hasn't been seen since medieval times.

Obviously he doesn't travel to Saudi Arabia then!

Still, let's not get facts in the way of his business interests.

[ontario claret]

After last night, Donald Trump is a kinder and gentler fascist.

[ontario claret]

And he would never mention Saudi Arabia because they are America's greatest ally in the Mid East. Talk about medieval regimes.