Caring Conseravtiveism?

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:17 pm

Rewind and have a listen to this some time later

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g2mgk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Caring Conservatism?... Don't make me laugh.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:18 pm

An oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:29 pm

Theresa May is by all accounts left of centre so she may actually be more caring than her predecessor. As ever, in these cases, time will tell.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:31 pm

Corky wrote:Theresa May is by all accounts left of centre so she may actually be more caring than her predecessor. As ever, in these cases, time will tell.

A wolf in sheeps clothing, Corky. Kept her head down pre-Brexit and came out the winner.
Good politician but left of nobody.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:47 pm

The left always has been the incorrect side.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:48 pm

Corky wrote:Theresa May is by all accounts left of centre so she may actually be more caring than her predecessor.

Yes because left=caring and right=hateful.

Stop HATE now!!!!

Vote for anyone who is "left" so that we get somebody "caring" in charge.

If we're lucky, we could emulate Hugo Chavez's success in Venezuela. How caring and kind it was of him to wreck their economy and leave them starving.

I just can't believe that a majority in this country still vote for the "hateful" lot? Why don't they choose love and kindness instead?

It's a puzzler, isn't it?

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:01 pm

Anger and hatred are easy emotions to arouse, and the parties that serve the establishment have been adept at creating targets for people to feel angry about. Hence the financial crisis which was caused by banks and blamed on the recipients of benefits; and the resulting lack of investment into everything creating problems with education, healthcare, housing, etc being blamed on immigrants and the EU (rather than the government which cut the spending). This isn't to say the parties of the elites - the Conservatives - have a monopoly on harnessing public anger. They don't.

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:12 pm

Yes because left=caring and right=hateful.

All Politicians = crooks.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:40 pm

The nearest we came to left wing dominance of politics was in the 1970's under Heath, Wilson, and the Trade Unions. The Unions especially showed what "left wing" was about - it was about every man for himself, get the best deal for yourself and screw the rest of you. Were the schools closing for power cuts because it was in the best interests of the children, or was it because the mines and power workers wanted more money? Were the dead left unburied and the streets full of rubbish because it made for a better country, or because the council workers wanted more money? Were the mass riots around Orgreave because the miners felt that the men of Orgreave needed a riot outside their factory, or was it because the miners wanted more money? The unions were in a race to the top (or bottom), they all wanted more money than the rest. That was their ultra-capitalist motivation - money. (OK, Scragill wanted to bring down the democratically elected government too.)

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:11 pm

If the 'left' are so caring, why are they filled with such hate ?

When did you last see Tories demonstrating outside the Labour party conference and spitting at delegates or Tories starting on their own kind because of their religion.

Labour closed coal mines and hospitals but they conveniently forget that too. Cosying up to Castro and Chavez but slam others who are democratically elected who aren't 'of the left'.

Why can't they respect the fact that others just have different views.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:06 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:If the 'left' are so caring, why are they filled with such hate ?

When did you last see Tories demonstrating outside the Labour party conference and spitting at delegates or Tories starting on their own kind because of their religion.

Labour closed coal mines and hospitals but they conveniently forget that too. Cosying up to Castro and Chavez but slam others who are democratically elected who aren't 'of the left'.

Why can't they respect the fact that others just have different views.

Why are you using a few bad examples of proprietors to paint an entire political wing as "filled with hate". Do you not understand that undermines you? Or do you just not care?

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:31 pm

Because it's not just a few bad examples. It's a recurring theme. Unfortunately.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:37 pm

Don't be stupid. It'd be like painting the entire right wing because right wingers keep attacking Muslims.

I'm absolutely certain you'd have a problem with me saying the right wing is full of hate based on the politically and racially motivated murders too many of them commit, so stop being such a ******* hypocrite.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:39 pm

There's something about a Tory which is not nice.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:40 pm

You're talking about the EDL and BNP etc.

I'm talking about the labour party. Corbyn addressed the rally outside the tory conference.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:47 pm

IanMcL wrote:There's something about a Tory which is not nice.

So you despise half the electorate because they disagree with your politics.

I'm sure you're better than that.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:48 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:So you despise half the electorate because they disagree with your politics.

I'm sure you're better than that.

Ian is probably guilty of not being specific but if you think that half the electorate are Tories then you're either delusional or tripping balls.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:53 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote: Ian is probably guilty of not being specific but if you think that half the electorate are Tories then you're either delusional or tripping balls.

Actually Ian is probably right. But in a basically "every man for himself" society it is easy to see why the tory way has become so popular

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:06 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Why are you using a few bad examples of proprietors to paint an entire political wing as "filled with hate". Do you not understand that undermines you? Or do you just not care?

That's pretty rich, coming from the left, who paint anybody who has an alternative point of view regarding the role of the state, immigration and Sovereignty as " Red Tories, Fascists, Little Englanders etc "...

The gross overuse of the word " Fascist ", from the left in particular, but from both sides, cheapens the insult to the point that it has no value. If anyone in the second decade of the 21st Century, actually had to live in Nazi Germany, with their treatment of Jews, Homosexuals and Gypsies, they'd soon temper their language.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:23 pm

Clarets4me wrote:That's pretty rich, coming from the left, who paint anybody ...

Jesus ******* Christ you really have no self-awareness, do you?

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:38 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Jesus ******* Christ you really have no self-awareness, do you?

There's you go insulting people because they disagree with you. Can you not have a rational debate without resorting to unpleasantness.

I was talking generally but you lose sight of the argument when you get lost in semantics. Or double you get semantic to avoid the issue.

I know Ian is better than that. That was the point of my comment, not the precise percentage of the electorate being tories .

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:43 pm

I can see why the Conservatives think there ideology will be best for all, hell they clearly all believe in it.

I used to be as right wing as they come (never at the Rowls level it has to be said though) and then as I got a bit older I kept the bits I liked (patriotism, stuff like that) and ditched the stuff that I just found wrong. As I've got older, had kids, I've swung a lot more to the left.

I'm not saying that my way is right, or their way is wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me that a country as rich as we are has food banks, homeless people and far too many people really struggling to make ends meet.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:48 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:but it doesn't sit well with me that a country as rich as we are has food banks, homeless people and far too many people really struggling to make ends meet.

I would hazard a guess, that this country has some of the wealthiest unemployed people in the world.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:50 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:There's you go insulting people because they disagree with you. Can you not have a rational debate without resorting to unpleasantness.

I was talking generally but you lose sight of the argument when you get lost in semantics. Or double you get semantic to avoid the issue.

I know Ian is better than that. That was the point of my comment, not the precise percentage of the electorate being tories .

Me: Hey, stop generalising entire political wings. It's not good for the debate.
Idiot: "That's pretty rich, coming from the left, who paint anybody ..."
Me: "Jesus ******* Christ you really have no self-awareness, do you?"
You: Instead of seeing that the idiot has just helped prove your point i'm going to criticise you for not being very nice.

Yes, you were talking generally and that's the ******* problem. You're generalising an entire political wing in a way that if it was done to you about your wing's worst actors you'd be spitting feathers.
Were you never taught as a child to treat others as you wish to be treated? Perhaps before your next post you'll apply that principle to what you're about to post and stop yourself from doing something to others that you'd hate to be done to you, like generalising an entire political wing.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:54 pm

Damo wrote:I would hazard a guess, that this country has some of the wealthiest unemployed people in the world.

What's your point?

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:56 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: it doesn't sit well with me that a country as rich as we are has food banks, homeless people and far too many people really struggling to make ends meet.

That sounds a little too much like empathy. You'll be called a 'snowflake' soon.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:16 pm

Did you all actually listen to the report on David Clapson before posting?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:10 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm not saying that my way is right, or their way is wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me that a country as rich as we are has food banks, homeless people and far too many people really struggling to make ends meet.

I've never understood thisd dislike of food banks. What's the alternative, for people with no money to buy food, than to give them food? Are we really saying that everyone should have so much money that, no matter what happens to them and however foolishly they arrange their affairs, they will always have spare money to hand? Not possible, I'm afraid.

I bet there are people on here (not asking for confessions) who are in debt to the greatest amount their credit card will handle. If they woke up in the morning and their workplace has closed, why shouldn't there be food banks to help them? Would they be better off going to the DHSS (on Monday) and filling in some forms? Because those forms aren't very nutritious.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:34 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:What's your point?

My point is, in reply to Lancaster saying the country doesn't care enough, is that people don't have it bad at all.
I thought my point was quite clear if I'm honest

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:46 am

Damo wrote:My point is, in reply to Lancaster saying the country doesn't care enough, is that people don't have it bad at all.
I thought my point was quite clear if I'm honest

I just wanted to make sure that it was you simply bring ignorant about poverty.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:59 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I just wanted to make sure that it was you simply bring ignorant about poverty.

Are you going to copy and paste loads of information now regarding poverty in Britain compared with the rest of the developed world?

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:21 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Me: Hey, stop generalising entire political wings. It's not good for the debate.
Idiot: "That's pretty rich, coming from the left, who paint anybody ..."
Me: "Jesus ******* Christ you really have no self-awareness, do you?"
You: Instead of seeing that the idiot has just helped prove your point i'm going to criticise you for not being very nice.

Yes, you were talking generally and that's the ******* problem. You're generalising an entire political wing in a way that if it was done to you about your wing's worst actors you'd be spitting feathers.
Were you never taught as a child to treat others as you wish to be treated? Perhaps before your next post you'll apply that principle to what you're about to post and stop yourself from doing something to others that you'd hate to be done to you, like generalising an entire political wing.

Being called an Idiot by " Imploding Turtle " is a badge of honour for me ... is he a Corbyn supporter, I wonder ?

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:58 am

Clarets4me wrote:Being called an Idiot by " Imploding Turtle " is a badge of honour for me ... is he a Corbyn supporter, I wonder ?

He's just a confused fellow who can't actually follow a debate without resorting to abusing people and running off on tangents.

I wouldn't mind if he came up with sensible debate backed up by credible references ( sorry but buzzfeed and Reddit just don't cut it )

Corbyn is great for the Tory party but bad for the country,as there is no real credible opposition.

As for caring conservativeism of course there is no such thing. They are a party predominantly which looks to create wealth and stimulate the economy, usually at the expense of the public sector.
Labour on the other hand couldn't care less either. They flood the public sector to create the illusion that they are for the people in order to buy votes, at the expense of the economy.
The vast majority of Politicians are only in it for themselves. As for the House of Lords well if ever a party wanted to become instantly popular overnight then promising a referendum on scraping the upper chamber would provide huge support.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:15 am

Damo wrote:Are you going to copy and paste loads of information now regarding poverty in Britain compared with the rest of the developed world?

If i thought that new information was important to you then i'd spend time trying to help you find it, yes.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:18 am

Right_winger wrote:He's just a confused fellow who can't actually follow a debate without resorting to abusing people and running off on tangents.

I wouldn't mind if he came up with sensible debate backed up by credible references ( sorry but buzzfeed and Reddit just don't cut it )

...

I don't think i've ever referenced Buzzfeed or Reddit as a source. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

I promise this isn't a trap. Please proceed, Governor.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:37 am

Clarets4me wrote:Being called an Idiot by " Imploding Turtle " is a badge of honour for me ... is he a Corbyn supporter, I wonder ?

The typical snowflake, missing the point entirely and focusing only on the perceived insult. Aren't you part of that whole "anti-political correctness brigade"? I thought being polite for the sake of being polite was too PC for the anti-PC brigade. Oh, i forgot, you're a hypocrite.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:39 am

So IT has shown himself that other peoples comments are correct. Just resorting to abuse when he can't win an argument. Corbyn's Labour/Momentum have taken the mantle of the 'Nasty Party' away from the Tories. That's partly why the Labour party is imploding. You're not a member of Momentum are you Turtle ?

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:43 am

South West Claret. wrote:Did you all actually listen to the report on David Clapson before posting?

Just a civil question all, a yes or no will suffice.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:01 am

IT, are you a football fan?

I only ask as I haven't seen you on footy related posts and I think your passion, tunnel vision and aggression would add much to threads having a go at our rivals. Genuinely. You'd have to accept we all have different views, for instance I think Ben Mee helps Michael Keane to look so good, whereas others would point to his errors.

But you don't call people stupid on a footy thread.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:16 am

Guich wrote:IT, are you a football fan?

I only ask as I haven't seen you on footy related posts and I think your passion, tunnel vision and aggression would add much to threads having a go at our rivals. Genuinely. You'd have to accept we all have different views, for instance I think Ben Mee helps Michael Keane to look so good, whereas others would point to his errors.

But you don't call people stupid on a footy thread.

He brings debate to this board on a range of topics except football, and he's said before he has no interest in going to watch Burnley.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:26 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:If i thought that new information was important to you then i'd spend time trying to help you find it, yes.

Its important to you more than me I think.
You called me out as being ignorant on a subject. Not backing that up with any sort of proof Is less than I would expect from you

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:13 pm

Damo wrote:Its important to you more than me I think.
You called me out as being ignorant on a subject. Not backing that up with any sort of proof Is less than I would expect from you

You dismissed UK poverty when you chose to point out that Britain's unemployed are among the wealthiest unemployed in the world. That alone is enough evidence for me to think that you're ignorant about poverty, particularly relative poverty.

But at least we agree that new information is more important to me than it is to you. I'm kind of surprised you chose to admit that.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:25 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:particularly relative poverty.

Yes Charlie.
Which was my original point.
Your 'holier that thou' virtue signalling wasn't required really, considering we agree

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:23 pm

I now don't think you know what virtue signalling is either.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:38 pm

Disability Benefit cuts, anyone ?

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I now don't think you know what virtue signalling is either.

Self awareness has never been your strong point

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:47 pm

Defence
Education
Health
Pensions
Benefits
Housing
Policing and prisons
National debt

Answers anyone ?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You dismissed UK poverty when you chose to point out that Britain's unemployed are among the wealthiest unemployed in the world. That alone is enough evidence for me to think that you're ignorant about poverty, particularly relative poverty.

Are you saying that that isn't true, or are you saying that it is true but Damo shouldn't have said it?

I don't have a lot of experience of the African mainland, or of being unemployerd in the UK for that matter, but from what experience I do have I know that the UK unemployed are better off than people who are employed in Senegal or the Gambia. You can tell that just by looking at how thin they are and the state of the markets. Even the university lecturer doing a bit of moonlighting as a tour guide looked unhealthily thin. (The President is fat, though. And his army looks well-fed.)

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:49 pm

An oxymoron

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:53 pm

If Corbyn cared......he'd go.