Burnley Reserves 1943-44 Season

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:12 am

A picture during the war shared online by a lady named Susan Greenwood, so possibly from a personal collection? She'd sent it to the Clarets Turf page to be shared it seems. Bee Hole End in the background.

No player names given, but I wonder if any of this team went on to play for the first team after the war; Does anyone know?

normandeeley · Post by **normandeeley** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:35 am

Looks like Arthur Woodruff, kneeling, bottom right, who played in the 46 cup final.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:41 am

Alan Brown captain of our 46/47 promotion winning team (behind the little cup).

normandeeley · Post by **normandeeley** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:53 am

B O T
Is it?
Don't think he joined us til after the war.

claretfern · Post by **claretfern** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:56 am

Alan Brown signed for us in 1946 ( left in '48 )

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:01 am

It looked like him to me but it isn't, as Claretfern is correct.

Where did I put them spectacles?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:08 am

I can't name anyone on the pic unfortunately - but what a superb photo it is.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:11 am

A real tough one to make sense of, the Central League (as with the Football League) was suspended during the War years. There was a regional competition of sorts including the FL War Cup and the Lancs Cup played for by a mixture of first team players but very few played on a regular basis during the '43/'44 season. Harry Potts played a few games as did Harold Rudman and Harold Mather.

So what was the shield that this particular team won?.......What colour was the strip?......Burnley didn't even have a manager during the war years but is that Cliff Britton on the back row?

More questions than answers, for me, I'm afraid.

normandeeley · Post by **normandeeley** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:20 am

Roy
Yes it does look like Cliff but he didn't join us until 1945. Is the picture definitely 43/44?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:23 am

Is that Cliff Britton third from left on back row?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:25 am

We won the Central League in '48/'49. Is it the Central League shield?

normandeeley · Post by **normandeeley** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:45 am

Royboyclaret wrote:We won the Central League in '48/'49. Is it the Central League shield?

From a 1960 memory only, which is dangerous, I thought the Central League trophy was a 'cup' rather than a shield.
(This thread certainly separates the old men from the boys)

Stan Tastic · Post by **Stan Tastic** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 am

You can see the Bee Hole Colliery in the background.

claretfern · Post by **claretfern** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:02 pm

Just had a look at Players' appearances 1943/44 from 'Burnley-A Complete Record' by Edward Lee and Ray Simpson. That Season shows one or two familiar names (ie: Potts, Mather, Strong, Bray, Woodruff) but quite a few 'unknowns' (war time guest players no doubt)
Very difficult to put names to faces from the photo. No Manager, as Royboy already mentioned.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:12 pm

[quote="Stan Tastic"]You can see the Bee Hole Colliery in the background.[/quote

I think what you are referring to is the old scoreboard on top of the bee hole end ? Cant add anything else to the comments except to say it is a a great pic. Assume Burnley Reserves 1943-44 is written on the back ?

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:38 pm

Did Wayne Rooney play in goal for us then?

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:40 pm

I think players and coaches were made up who was available on the day. So someone based near Burnley would play as often as his schedule allowed him but otherwise the team would be filled by those in reserved occupations such as railwaymen, miners etc.

Bfc · Post by **Bfc** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:51 pm

Of the players kneeling, the inside of left looks like Gordon Haigh a full back and first right has a look of winger Jack Chew. The gentleman top right could be director ED Kay. I may be able to update on other staff and player inf,when I get back into the country and look through my old team photos collection.
Could the trophy be one won by the A or B team in the East Lancs combination division ?.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:55 pm

Did they play 12 a side in those days ?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:59 pm

Claretforever........Perhaps the good lady Ms.Greenwood may be able to provide some help regarding the identity of some of the players in the photo?

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:10 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Claretforever........Perhaps the good lady Ms.Greenwood may be able to provide some help regarding the identity of some of the players in the photo?

Not sure. I just took it from the page she shared it too. Could be later than she thinks?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:19 pm

It's certainly a mystery and not often that a BFC photo on here raises so many questions.

Pretty certain that Cliff Britton is third from the left but he didn't become manager until 1945.

Did we even have a reserve team during the war?

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:27 pm

I'll tell you what I do know though, that player underneath the gentleman with the hat on looks like a serial killer.

dr dre · Post by **dr dre** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:54 pm

in 1943-44 Burnley reserves won the Burnley and district war time league and then won the championship shield at Turf Moor beating N.F.S 7-0 not surprising as the according to the Burnley Express the average age of the NFS team was 35, unfortunately no team in the paper. The team that won the league the week before by beating Bankfield SC 5-0 was Tate, Owens,Hargreaves,Sunter,Bannister,Holden,Holdsworth.Mignot,Hodgson,Moss,Keighley
most of these probably played the following week, don't recognise many of the names so probably a team of local players. The other people in the picture are probably the acting mayor of Burnley and league officials.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:05 pm

dr dre wrote:in 1943-44 Burnley reserves won the Burnley and district war time league and then won the championship shield at Turf Moor beating N.F.S 7-0 not surprising as the according to the Burnley Express the average age of the NFS team was 35, unfortunately no team in the paper. The team that won the league the week before by beating Bankfield SC 5-0 was Tate, Owens,Hargreaves,Sunter,Bannister,Holden,Holdsworth.Mignot,Hodgson,Moss,Keighley
most of these probably played the following week, don't recognise many of the names so probably a team of local players. The other people in the picture are probably the acting mayor of Burnley and league officials.

Would you mind me asking if you pay a subscription for access to old newspaper records? If so, which site?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:05 pm

Excellent detective work dr dre!

I understand that the maiden name of Susan Greenwood was Hargreaves which may well solve the family connection with the photo (her grandfather perhaps?).

Harrythomsonscap · Post by **Harrythomsonscap** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:13 pm

Bfc wrote:Of the players kneeling, the inside of left looks like Gordon Haigh a full back and first right has a look of winger Jack Chew. The gentleman top right could be director ED Kay. I may be able to update on other staff and player inf,when I get back into the country and look through my old team photos collection.
Could the trophy be one won by the A or B team in the East Lancs combination division ?.

I can assure you Gordon Haigh is not on this photo. He was stationed in Canada during the war and played in Canada & the USA representing the RAF

dr dre · Post by **dr dre** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:23 pm

Claretforever wrote:Would you mind me asking if you pay a subscription for access to old newspaper records? If so, which site?

British newspaper archive pretty good for local papers up to early 1950's

Claretfever · Post by **Claretfever** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:49 pm

Back row, second from the left is clearly Ant McPartlin. I'd recognise that 12 inch forehead anywhere.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:32 am

I'll run this past my 89 year old dad as soon as I can and see if he can help.

Can't promise too much, but will give it a try.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:16 am

bottom right is definitely Rouwen Hennings although possibly not given the timeframe ....

mikaelj · Post by **mikaelj** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:43 am

[img]

: 1941-42 reserves.jpg (451.79 KiB) Viewed 4485 times

[/img]She also posted this pic of the reserves 1941-42

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:10 am

mikaelj wrote:[img]
1941-42%20reserves.jpg
[/img]She also posted this pic of the reserves 1941-42

A young Mezut Ozil front right.

Great pic.

Bfc · Post by **Bfc** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:05 pm

The trophy shown in post 32 is the Lancashire Junior shield, first competed for in 1906. The shield was competed for by the young A and B youth team players at various clubs throughout Lancashire.
The club chairman Tom Clegg is the man wearing the hat and from memory the man to his left is the club secretary.
Burnley won the trophy in 1943, beating Moss Rovers 6-3 at Burnden Park, where many of the finals were held, due to its central location for competing teams. In the early days of the competition the 2 finalist shared the entire gate receipts after expenses were taken out.

Im_not_Robbie_Blake · Post by **Im_not_Robbie_Blake** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:10 pm

Hennings sitting behind Ozil!

jtv · Post by **jtv** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:17 pm

Im_not_Robbie_Blake wrote:Hennings sitting behind Ozil!

Quite an interesting German connection there. Were they POWs?

claretfern · Post by **claretfern** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:11 pm

Could be Hennings behind Ozil....but could also be Scott Arfield !

thingandwhere · Post by **thingandwhere** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:56 am

Thanks for posting this, my grandad is Matthew Sunter and I've never seen any photos of his modest Burnley days/playing career. On the first pic, he's the first seated player on the left. I'd know those ears anywhere - though I'll admit I did think kneeling furthest left player was him.

As said, the 1940-45 team was made up of good local players who were available - he was a young farmer and (I think) a miner at the time. His personal BFC highlight was playing at Villa Park. He then moved to Nelson FC where he ended up being Director in later age. He dug out his boots and turned out for them when someone fell ill and he scored. A cartoon was made of it in a national sports paper where a fat cat in a bowler hat with a cigar was nodding a goal in.

Not many pictures have survived from his younger days so hope you don't mind if I save a copy!

lancastrian · Post by **lancastrian** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:59 am

I think the player sitting behind the shield is Bob Johnson. Other players could be Jack Billingham,Roy Stephenson , Hornby, Harold Rudman and Ray Harrison.

davemanu2000 · Post by **davemanu2000** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:52 am

Very impressive .

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:07 am

lancastrian wrote:I think the player sitting behind the shield is Bob Johnson. Other players could be Jack Billingham,Roy Stephenson , Hornby, Harold Rudman and Ray Harrison.

Roy Stephenson was born in May 1932 ?