Shari`a Law

[FCBurnley]

Following the recent London attack, I heard on an interview that there are 80 Shari`a Law courts in London alone. Obviously I had heard of Shari`a Law but only knew bits of it. So I used google to see exactly what Shari`a Law is. Here are a few of its crimes and punishments.

Theft is punishable by amputation of right hand
Criticizing or denying any part of The Quran is punishable by death
A Muslim who becomes a non Muslim is punishable by death.
A non Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death
A Muslim man can marry an infant and consummate the marriage at 9 years of age.
Testimonies by 4 male witnesses are required to prove rape against a woman
Muslims must engage in Taqiyya and lie to non Muslims to advance Islam.

The above are part of a much larger list on Billionbibles.org. I have no idea if they are true or not.

Remember there are 80 courts practicing Shari`a law in London alone. I wonder where and how any death sentences are carried out. Very scary stuff indeed.

[evensteadiereddie]

Not really if you think about it.

[FCBurnley]

Not really if you think about it.

Please explain

[Cheshireclaret]

I can set a court up tomorrow to adjudicate based on any law or punishment I see fit however, if I sentence someone to amputation or death, and that is carried out, then I am breaking the laws of the United Kingdom. As a result, I suspect the answer to your question is not many, if any, at all.

[Lancasterclaret]

Full fact is good on this

https://fullfact.org/law/uks-sharia-courts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sidney1st]

A lot of those 'laws' you've picked out to suit your arguement won't be carried out within the UK, just out in the deserts.

Yes there are the usual morons who want Islamic/Sharia law to be implemented in the UK instead of our laws, but it isn't going to happen.

[cutsy123]

They shouldnt be able do have these courts in the uk

[FCBurnley]

Full fact is good on this

https://fullfact.org/law/uks-sharia-courts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting read but cant imagine that Muslims living in the UK are free from the restrictions of Shari`a. Family arbitration is understandable but what happens if say a Muslim woman in the UK commits adultery ?

[FCBurnley]

A lot of those 'laws' you've picked out to suit your arguement won't be carried out within the UK, just out in the deserts.

Yes there are the usual morons who want Islamic/Sharia law to be implemented in the UK instead of our laws, but it isn't going to happen.

Wasn`t aware I was arguing with anyone. Simply trying to understand what is happening in the UK. Feel free to post some Shari`a laws that you find acceptable

[bobinho]

Britain will see this practised at some point in the future. It is inevitable. May not be in my lifetime, but it'll come.

[SammyBoy]

A lot of those 'laws' you've picked out to suit your arguement won't be carried out within the UK, just out in the deserts.

Yes there are the usual morons who want Islamic/Sharia law to be implemented in the UK instead of our laws, but it isn't going to happen.

The 'they're trying to make this country adhere to Sharia Law' argument always gets me as well, even from a purely logistical point of view there are over 60 million non-Muslims who would resist such an attempt, not entirely sure how they would make everybody comply ..

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Britain will see this practised at some point in the future. It is inevitable. May not be in my lifetime, but it'll come.

Your evidence to back this up is?

[FCBurnley]

The 'they're trying to introduce Sharia Law' argument always gets me as well, even from a purely logistical point of view there are over 60 million non-Muslims who would resist such an attempt, not entirely sure how they would make everybody comply ..

Dont think anybody is suggesting it will replace British law but quite possibly it is already operating for Muslims living in the UK

[evensteadiereddie]

Please explain

Posts 4 and 6 beat me to it.

"Quite possibly.."

[SammyBoy]

Dont think anybody is suggesting it will replace British law but quite possibly it is already operating for Muslims living in the UK

I wasn't specifically referring to you but it's often an argument peddled by the extreme-right. There's quite a famous video of a complete brain donor at an EDL march talking about how he's marching to stop 'Muslamic' people 'trying to put their law down over this country'. Naturally he was mercilessly ridiculed.

[Firthy]

Dont think anybody is suggesting it will replace British law but quite possibly it is already operating for Muslims living in the UK

Well it shouldn't. They choose to live in our country so they should abide by our laws not their own. Could you ever imagine christian laws being adopted in a Muslim country, I think not.

You only have to look at westerners being imprisoned in their countries for drinking alcohol to see their intolerance. If they hate western values so much why do they live here.

[SammyBoy]

Well it shouldn't. They choose to live in our country so they should abide by our laws not their own. Could you ever imagine christian laws being adopted in a Muslim country, I think not.

You only have to look at westerners being imprisoned in their countries for drinking alcohol to see their intolerance. If they hate western values so much why do they live here.

I'd wager the vast majority of British Muslims are probably very relieved they don't have to live in those countries and would definitely not want to move there for whatever reason.

[Tall Paul]

Dont think anybody is suggesting it will replace British law but quite possibly it is already operating for Muslims living in the UK

It isn't, not where it's contrary to UK law anyway.

Or do you really think that people are being put to death by these Sharia courts in this country?

[CombatClaret]

Not Courts and not laws.

Has the same validity as me operating my own international war crimes tribunal from my living room.

[Damo]

There was 18 cases of honour killing in the UK between 2010 and 2014. Along with 11,000 honour crimes. All commited in the name of shari`a.

If that isn't scary then I don't know what is.
*edited to include link

http://www.thedebrief.co.uk/news/politi ... 0160964920" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CombatClaret]

I heard on an interview that there are 80 Shari`a Law courts in London alone. Obviously I had heard of Shari`a Law but only knew bits of it. So I used google to see exactly what Shari`a Law is.

When you know a well informed, balanced and thought out essay is coming.

[Rick_Muller]

I wasn't specifically referring to you but it's often an argument peddled by the extreme-right. There's quite a famous video of a complete brain donor at an EDL march talking about how he's marching to stop 'Muslamic' people 'trying to put their law down over this country'. Naturally he was mercilessly ridiculed.

allow me to oblige...

https://youtu.be/kjuNuqIev8M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mdd2]

I thought men who raped women were castrated but executed if they repeated the offence!!!!

[Sidney1st]

If they hate western values so much why do they live here.

Where do you want to start with it?

They originally came over here for work didn't they after the War?

Naturally they've stayed here since, but we're talking about radicalized people now who've decided that the laws of the desert lands should be applied here.
We all know it's rubbish and they shouldn't be, but a violent minority want it to happen.

Yes the answer is if you don't like it then bugger off back to the desert, but that isn't going to happen either because we aren't willing to throw out the dissidents.
However as a country we need to try and understand why they suddenly hate our society, there has to be a real reason why people suddenly hate everything they've grown up with.

There's the usual complaint about how we behave, immoral and decadent etc, but that can't be the whole answer.
It doesn't always help when they marry someone who's been living over there forever and then come over here and they're limited in what they can do for a job or have a limited grasp of the English Language.
Restricting who they can marry is also probably an issue, organised marriages shouldn't really be allowed and also they need to relax a little about inter-racial marriages.
Religion being the absolute focal point of their lives is amusing, especially when you see numbers of them drinking, smoking or using the hookers on Colne road.
Self imposed segregation needs to stop, but English people need to make them feel more welcome.

[bobinho]

Your evidence to back this up is?

You want evidence to back up something that hasn't happened yet? I can't provide evidence i'm afraid.

My OPINION is, we live in a country where we have our own, mostly fit for purpose, laws. But we are soooooo eager to prove we are a progressive society where everyone is welcome, valued and relevant, that we are happy to bend, and capitulate in order to prove we are truly multicultural. So we allow people to say and preach what they like, now quite openly, 'cos we are really scared of being tarred with the "racist" brush. Even when the preaching is quite dangerous and inflammatory, it is allowed because we fear the "is it because I is black/I is a muslim" retort. We have to respect peoples "human rights", and that, in the end, is what will see it active.

It won't be long before the courts are challenged under some obscure "human rights" legislation that we are not allowing muslims to practise their religion properly by outlawing sharia law, and it is a disgraceful state of affairs that we can be so openly racist. They will, at some point, win their argument.

It is my opinion, that we will continue to bend over and be dry shafted, and because of that, it is inevitable.

[Man of Kent]

Not Courts and not laws.

Has the same validity as me operating my own international war crimes tribunal from my living room.

Hey, I did just that and found Tony Blair guilty as charged!

[cutsy123]

There was 18 cases of honour killing in the UK between 2010 and 2014. Along with 11,000 honour crimes. All commited in the name of shari`a.

If that isn't scary then I don't know what is.
*edited to include link

http://www.thedebrief.co.uk/news/politi ... 0160964920" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leave em to it

[SammyBoy]

You want evidence to back up something that hasn't happened yet? I can't provide evidence i'm afraid.

My OPINION is, we live in a country where we have our own, mostly fit for purpose, laws. But we are soooooo eager to prove we are a progressive society where everyone is welcome, valued and relevant, that we are happy to bend, and capitulate in order to prove we are truly multicultural. So we allow people to say and preach what they like, now quite openly, 'cos we are really scared of being tarred with the "racist" brush. Even when the preaching is quite dangerous and inflammatory, it is allowed because we fear the "is it because I is black/I is a muslim" retort. We have to respect peoples "human rights", and that, in the end, is what will see it active.

It won't be long before the courts are challenged under some obscure "human rights" legislation that we are not allowing muslims to practise their religion properly by outlawing sharia law, and it is a disgraceful state of affairs that we can be so openly racist. They will, at some point, win their argument.

It is my opinion, that we will continue to bend over and be dry shafted, and because of that, it is inevitable.

Oh bloody hell, so you're telling me that in a few years just as the dust has settled from Brexit we're going to have Sharia Law to deal with next

[LeadBelly]

When a group of people is encouraged (/not discouraged at least) to operate a different system of laws to the ones pertaining to all others in a country, it detracts from social cohesion. In fact it encourages that group to believe they are different/special and some amongst them will start to behave like they are above the general laws.
It would help integration in this country if Sharia law was banned/frowned upon.
As it is, we have some people practising FGM (and getting away with it despite it being illegal in UK law); some people believing that they have a right to police streets and impose no drinking (etc) rules where there are none in UK law; some people committing murder (and being proud of it) on people they consider apostates/heretics.
I believe that the majority of Muslims in this country respect UK law but an increasing number seem not to (evidenced by a larger pro-rata prison population).

[Bordeauxclaret]

So many people on this forum seem petrified of these Johnny Foreigners.

[Lancasterclaret]

Anyone playing EDL bingo would have been screaming "House" by about post 10.

[CombatClaret]

Right, lets dig a little deeper shall we, do some proper research and actually crunch some numbers. The issue is actually very minor but you can paint it as large with your verbage and select use of stats.

Of the 11,000 incidents over the four years the overwhelming majority are cases of domestic violence, because of the religious aspect they are then labeled 'Honour Crimes'.
Domestic violence is very hard to measure but it's estimated there are around 2million victims per year.
So every year 0.13% of domestic abuse is due to religious reasons or an 'Honour Crime'.
or

18 of those 11k were murders. Well in 2015 there were 512 homicides, so over 4 years 2048 murders (higher actually as murder rates have been declining year on year).
So running the numbers again 0.87% of murders over the 4 years were 'Honour Killings'.

But of course putting the numbers in context do not scare people or support an agenda.

[Tall Paul]

They shouldnt be able do have these courts in the uk

Leave em to it

Make your mind up

[CombatClaret]

So many people on this forum seem petrified of these Johnny Foreigners.

I know right, absolute sh*tting themselves?!

[Bordeauxclaret]

A terror incident and an international break is not a good combination for this messageboard.

[CombatClaret]

It won't be long before the courts are challenged under some obscure "human rights" legislation that we are not allowing muslims to practise their religion properly by outlawing sharia law, and it is a disgraceful state of affairs that we can be so openly racist. They will, at some point, win their argument.

Since the UK will soon be drafting it's own human rights bill you would think the government would not include clauses that could see another legal entity supersede the very laws of the sovereign nation it is based in

[ClaretMoffitt]

So many people on this forum seem petrified of these Johnny Foreigners.

1.) Not all muslims are foreign, in fact most in the UK aren't.

2.) Can't imagine why anybody would be fearful or suspicious of an ideology given whats currently happening is almost every country in the world inhabited by it.

[bobinho]

Since the UK will soon be drafting it's own human rights bill you would think the government would not include clauses that could see another legal entity supersede the very laws of the sovereign nation it is based in

Agreed. You would think that.

But maybe the govt will just carry on with the Eu human rights bill, with a couple of minor changes that will take years to write. (should take weeks) Any MAJOR changes would suggest it was never fit for our purpose in the first place, and we know how people hate to admit they made mistakes.

[SammyBoy]

Agreed. You would think that.

But maybe the govt will just carry on with the Eu human rights bill, with a couple of minor changes that will take years to write. (should take weeks) Any MAJOR changes would suggest it was never fit for our purpose in the first place, and we know how people hate to admit they made mistakes.

You do seem to deal a lot in 'ifs' and 'buts', Bobinho. Stop catastrophizing everything.

[CombatClaret]

Can't imagine why anybody would be fearful or suspicious of an ideology given whats currently happening is almost every country in the world inhabited by it.

The point is the fear and suspicion is totally disproportionate to the actual risk to you. Which is 100% what the terrorist aim for.

For a very, very minimal effort and small death toll (killing 0.000004% of the population) they they are able to change our mindset, outlook and culture of a 64million population country.

By reacting as many here do you are playing into their hands so, so well.

[ElectroClaret]

The point is the fear and suspicion is totally disproportionate to the actual risk to you. Which is 100% what the terrorist aim for.

Spot on.

[AndrewJB]

UK Sharia courts adjudicate on things like divorce, and food purity. Jewish people have similar courts. It's not a big deal.

Had to laugh at Farage - banging on about migrants making Britain unsafe. The attacker is fifty-two and comes from Kent, exactly like Farage, and arguably just as extreme.

[joey13]

You will believe what you want to believe.

[Erasmus]

I'm very reluctant to get involved in this kind of debate, but like many others I believe in social cohesion, and some of the comments on here illustrate one of the principal reasons why there is a lack of social cohesion. People seizing on random, false and decontextualised information in order to demonise a particular community. It's hardly surprising Muslims are wary of integration when this kind of misrepresentation is used by people with a specific anti-Muslim agenda.

For what it's worth, I don't like Islam or any other form of fundamentalism, but if we genuinely want community cohesion then the spouting of this sort of nonsense about Sharia law is the last thing we should be indulging in. I had a student from Burnley who told me her Mom was afraid to go out because of the number of times she had been sworn at, threatened and spat on. It's hardly the best way to promote integration.

[ElectroClaret]

Combat Claret at post forty sums it up perfectly.

[Damo]

Right, lets dig a little deeper shall we, do some proper research and actually crunch some numbers. The issue is actually very minor but you can paint it as large with your verbage and select use of stats.

Of the 11,000 incidents over the four years the overwhelming majority are cases of domestic violence, because of the religious aspect they are then labeled 'Honour Crimes'.
Domestic violence is very hard to measure but it's estimated there are around 2million victims per year.
So every year 0.13% of domestic abuse is due to religious reasons or an 'Honour Crime'.

Can you back that up with some kind of evidence?
Only you use the words 'domestic violence' like it's a case of man and wife beating each other up, and not things like FGM on young children. People dilliberately maiming a daughter because she refused to marry her cousin etc.

18 of those 11k were murders. Well in 2015 there were 512 homicides, so over 4 years 2048 murders (higher actually as murder rates have been declining year on year).
So running the numbers again 0.87% of murders over the 4 years were 'Honour Killings'.

But of course putting the numbers in context do not scare people or support an agenda.

However you try to quantity those 18 murders. The reality of them isn't in any way diminished by the fact some other people commited murder for other reasons.

[cutsy123]

Make your mind up

Exactly

They shouldnt be allowed to have their own rulings in their own courts. As they do tho, leave em to it.

As long as these types of people keep out of the general British public domain, **** em

[Tall Paul]

Exactly

They shouldnt be allowed to have their own rulings in their own courts.

They aren't allowed, if it goes against UK law.

As they do tho, leave em to it.

What? That makes no sense

As long as these types of people keep out of the general British public domain, **** em

[Pstotto]

There are no Holy words or texts because of the sewer they go into. It doesn't make either philosophical or epistemological sense, because of the imperfection of sense mediation.

[CombatClaret]

However you try to quantity those 18 murders. The reality of them isn't in any way diminished by the fact some other people commited murder for other reasons.

The ONS and Police will not provide a detailed break down but in almost every article they list beatings (spousal or family related) as a key crime.
You've picked most outrageous example for the most emotive response.
Which is why articles like to use 'includes' and 'ranged from' when referencing FGM & murder to give the impression that it makes up a larger majority of that number than might be the case.

Also my math was wrong as that 11,000 number was taken over 5 years not 4.
So should be 0.11% for domestic abuse and 0.7% of murders

You are trying to paint my attempts to contextualize and give an accurate picture of crime in this country as an attempt to diminish the crime itself which is not true.
I am trying to debunk the sensationalists among us who would point to this as a huge problem that faces our nation or that these types of crimes makes up a large proportion of the crime our nation faces and lay that at the feet of a religious minority to instill fear and intolerance.