Unite behind Brexit says May.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:34 am

Always knew Len was pulling the strings no wonder Corbyn was so cool on the issue.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:36 am

I read something about this the other day.

Isn't Len up for re-election soon and he's got some competition hasn't he this time?

One of the candidates wants the Union to stop dicking around in politics I think I read.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:45 am

Will Brexit achieve the 350 million (per week) for the NHS as promised....No!

Will Brexit stop the number of people / migrants coming to live in the UK....No!

Will Britain return to a whites only, middle class society (I suspect many hoped so)....No!

We won't leave the EU for another 2 years and I think it will be many years before we really know if our trade will reduce and the economy and jobs be affected.

So will somebody remind me...why are we leaving the EU?

Sad day!

lakesclaret · Post by **lakesclaret** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:08 pm

Currypies

While I appreciate your hysterical over Brexit your pints are nonsense to be really fair

The 350 mill nhs quote was outed as ridiculous from the outset well before voting took place.

Reduction of migrants , There will be a reduction for sure but I doubt will be anything sizeable

" returning back to a white middle class Britain"

I genuinely laughed out at that. There's more white " middle classes" ( or at least they think the are) than there's ever been .If you seriously thought anyone even UKIP thought 10 million or so non whites of every persuasion were gonna up sticks you must be suffering some kind of breakdown .

I was a keen remainer but it's done, I excepted the result and time to stop bitching and get behind it imo

lakesclaret · Post by **lakesclaret** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:08 pm

Points not "pints" ffs

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:19 pm

It's likely the poor and their areas will be hit the hardest - poetic justice ?

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:53 pm

A as I said on another thread if this had been a referendum for hanging and the great British public had brought it back I would still be campaigning against it, similarly
with Brexit, the vote was lost but the issue does not go away, and those who believe in the virtues of co-operation have still got a case to make.
Yes the British have always been half-hearted about the EU, they've never truly committed and perhaps sometime outside will make them appreciate the advantages that being a member brings.
The debate continues, and don't expect those in favour of our membership just to disappear into the woodwork, or we will become a vile little nation, of nursery tyrants like Johnson.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:00 pm

We're on our way

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:09 pm

Splendid isolation, rule Britannia, take -up the draw bridge, the island mentality is into full -swing.
The sceptred Isle likely to become the Septic isle, as the poison starts oozing out.

Hapag Lloyd · Post by **Hapag Lloyd** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:11 pm

ablueclaret wrote:Splendid isolation, rule Britannia, take -up the draw bridge, the island mentality is into full -swing.
The sceptred Isle likely to become the Septic isle, as the poison starts oozing out.

Yes let's hope it oozes back to where it came from.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:02 am

Good to see Heseltine showing a little bit of backbone.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:28 am

LoveCurryPies wrote:Will Brexit achieve the 350 million (per week) for the NHS as promised....No!

Will Brexit stop the number of people / migrants coming to live in the UK....No!

Will Britain return to a whites only, middle class society (I suspect many hoped so)....No!

We won't leave the EU for another 2 years and I think it will be many years before we really know if our trade will reduce and the economy and jobs be affected.

So will somebody remind me...why are we leaving the EU?

Sad day!

Because the people voted for it, farely, it is now up to everyone to just get on with it and get the best deal for the UK possible.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:34 am

As I've said countless times that isn't the case.

If this had been a referendum on re-introducing hanging, if it had been brought back,I would have continued to fight against it, similarly with Brexit.

We have a Parliamentary democracy and MP's should have voted in what they perceived as the national interest, they didn't.
Yes it would have lead to a General election and maybe a re-alignment of Parliament, but now we are heading down a route that most MP's see as wrong, but having their hands tied by the great British public.
We are living a lie, we are asking politicians to be what we denounce,liars, it is politics stood on its head and it's bad news for everyone.

Wilsdenclaret · Post by **Wilsdenclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:40 am

no, no I won't so there

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:43 am

ablueclaret wrote:As I've said countless times that isn't the case.

If this had been a referendum on re-introducing hanging, if it had been brought back,I would have continued to fight against it, similarly with Brexit.

We have a Parliamentary democracy and MP's should have voted in what they perceived as the national interest, they didn't.
Yes it would have lead to a General election and maybe a re-alignment of Parliament, but now we are heading down a route that most MP's see as wrong, but having their hands tied by the great British public.
We are living a lie, we are asking politicians to be what we denounce,liars, it is politics stood on its head and it's bad news for everyone.

They followed the directive of the majority vote from the referendum, that's what democracy is all about abc.

If they'd ignored the result then what's the point in democracy?

Manceau · Post by **Manceau** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:47 am

Me neither.

As the Mash pointed out, uniting behind Brexit a bit hard if you think it's ****.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 0117120370" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:54 am

Nigel Farage gave an interview before the referendum in which he clearly stated that if the result was close, say 52/48 against quitting the EU, then he would have continued to campaign for a second referendum.

So much for all of this nonsense now being spouted by "Leavers" about "democracy" and "accepting the will of the people."

Nigel Farage was never going to accept the democratic vote (if it went against him) so why should those who voted Remain?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:56 am

Get yourself another referendum going then.

Oh wait, you can't it's too late now Article 50 has been invoked.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:56 am

LoveCurryPies wrote:Will Brexit achieve the 350 million (per week) for the NHS as promised....No!

Will Brexit stop the number of people / migrants coming to live in the UK....No!

Will Britain return to a whites only, middle class society (I suspect many hoped so)....No!

We won't leave the EU for another 2 years and I think it will be many years before we really know if our trade will reduce and the economy and jobs be affected.

So will somebody remind me...why are we leaving the EU?

Sad day!

May is in the process of taking back control of 19,000 EU laws.
Hope that brief statement helps you find an answer

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:58 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:It's likely the poor and their areas will be hit the hardest - poetic justice ?

Yes, I don't know how these northern slums are going to cope without their posh bus stations and fancy round abouts

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:00 am

kentonclaret wrote:Nigel Farage gave an interview before the referendum in which he clearly stated that if the result was close, say 52/48 against quitting the EU, then he would have continued to campaign for a second referendum.

So much for all of this nonsense now being spouted by "Leavers" about "democracy" and "accepting the will of the people."

Nigel Farage was never going to accept the democratic vote (if it went against him) so why should those who voted Remain?

I thought you lot despised Farage?
It's funny how much what he says means to you now

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:18 am

ablueclaret wrote:As I've said countless times that isn't the case.

If this had been a referendum on re-introducing hanging, if it had been brought back,I would have continued to fight against it, similarly with Brexit.

We have a Parliamentary democracy and MP's should have voted in what they perceived as the national interest, they didn't.
Yes it would have lead to a General election and maybe a re-alignment of Parliament, but now we are heading down a route that most MP's see as wrong, but having their hands tied by the great British public.
We are living a lie, we are asking politicians to be what we denounce,liars, it is politics stood on its head and it's bad news for everyone.

So ABC how hard are you fighting? Protest Marching, chaining yourself to railings, raising petitions or just posting ******** on here?

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:28 am

some funny thoughts on here, being isolationist, really!! Always been a trading nation but EU dictating what you can manufacture and sell was a real block, lot's of stupid laws to go with it plus subsidies, mind you we paid in and were then given some of our money back, minus what went to the poorer nations of course. UK just the first to leave and expect to see more in the next 5 - 10 years.

Of course good comment in we will not see the ramifications of it for 2+ years and some will look and think (depending on our status) we had better leave/stay.

am looking forward to how it all pans out actually the good the bad and the ugly because we will have all 3 for sure in my opinion.

I believe the remain group should really be looking at what good they are doing with protests and law suits just because they did not get the results they wanted, as others say its call democracy, good job we didn't have this lot when we signed the Magna Carta or we may never have become not just a democratic nation but the leader on how the majority of countries developed there parliamentary systems.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:28 pm

KateR wrote:some funny thoughts on here, being isolationist, really!! Always been a trading nation but EU dictating what you can manufacture and sell was a real block, lot's of stupid laws to go with it plus subsidies, mind you we paid in and were then given some of our money back, minus what went to the poorer nations of course. UK just the first to leave and expect to see more in the next 5 - 10 years.

Of course good comment in we will not see the ramifications of it for 2+ years and some will look and think (depending on our status) we had better leave/stay.

am looking forward to how it all pans out actually the good the bad and the ugly because we will have all 3 for sure in my opinion.

I believe the remain group should really be looking at what good they are doing with protests and law suits just because they did not get the results they wanted, as others say its call democracy, good job we didn't have this lot when we signed the Magna Carta or we may never have become not just a democratic nation but the leader on how the majority of countries developed there parliamentary systems.

Excellent post KateR. The good The Bad The Ugly comment hits the nail squarely on the head with a 4lb lump hammer.

What many opposing Brexit seem to fail to acknowledge with all their links to graphs and all their press commentaries etc etc is their would have been Good, Bad and Ugly had we remained in the EU also. Personally I wanted some things to change and some things to stay as they are but you cant have everything you want.

Of course we now have uncertainty, in my all adult life theirs been uncertainty about one thing or another when it comes to employment, living standards, financial markets and currency in fact anything where a political process is required , you just have to get on with it in the end.

And despite all the posturing on both sides nobody knows if Brexit is a good or bad thing yet. Its a huge change, of course it is but perhaps its best all round to embrace it because you are sure as hell not going to stop it.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:39 pm

This is a Parliamentary democracy not a plebiscite democracy.
The referendum said leave but it is MP's that have the last say, they chose to dodge the bullets and go against their beliefs. That is the greatest of deceptions.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:40 pm

ablueclaret wrote:This is a Parliamentary democracy not a plebiscite democracy.
The referendum said leave but it is MP's that have the last say, they chose to dodge the bullets and go against their beliefs. That is the greatest of deceptions.

Tarks for PM hey ABC. Renny Smith as chancellor.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:42 pm

ablueclaret wrote:This is a Parliamentary democracy not a plebiscite democracy.
The referendum said leave but it is MP's that have the last say, they chose to dodge the bullets and go against their beliefs. That is the greatest of deceptions.

The people said leave.

If the MP's ignored the vote of the people, then both leave and remain would have no reason to trust MP's to represent them.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:44 pm

Time for those who still see our future in Europe to speak up for it and its political importance, Farage would not have given up his fight if he'd lost, neither should we who believe in Europe being the better option.
Issues don't go away because one side won, not if you honestly hold to the value of the thing you fought for.
If you didn't believe in capital punishment would you give up that believe if the British people voted for its return, if you would I fear you'd be easy prey for a fascist dictatorship.
Stand up for what you believe in, come hell or high water, and never let the Daily Mail have the last laugh.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:45 pm

Sidney1st wrote:The people said leave.

If the MP's ignored the vote of the people, then both leave and remain would have no reason to trust MP's to represent them.

52% does not = "the people".

And if you gave a **** about what the people decide then you wouldn't be so upset that the SNP is fulfilling a promise made to the Scottish people in exchange for their vote.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:47 pm

The people voted in all those MP's with EU agendas, if the people had wanted Brexit MP's they would have voted for them, they did not. Democracy works both ways, and in our country Parliament is sovereign

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:49 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:52% does not = "the people".

And if you gave a **** about what the people decide then you wouldn't be so upset that the SNP is fulfilling a promise made to the Scottish people in exchange for their vote.

52% = the winning vote, ergo the will of the people.

As for the Scots, I'm all for them having another vote, but when Brexit is done, I'm not upset about it at all, you're the ******* moron who can't see what I'm saying about it, or only partially reading it to suit yourself.

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:54 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:Will Brexit achieve the 350 million (per week) for the NHS as promised....No!

Will Brexit stop the number of people / migrants coming to live in the UK....No!

Will Britain return to a whites only, middle class society (I suspect many hoped so)....No!

We won't leave the EU for another 2 years and I think it will be many years before we really know if our trade will reduce and the economy and jobs be affected.

So will somebody remind me...why are we leaving the EU?

Sad day!

I voted out and i'm not a racist.
It's about time you remoaners wound your necks in and accepted the majority vote.
If the remain campaign had won, and the brexiteers acted like you spoilt brats, you'd have gone to town on us for refusing to accept that democracy had spoken.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:57 pm

The leavers would have continued their case if they'd got 48% of the vote, one last heave would have been the motto.

The fact you call us remouners sums up the unpleasant nature of your side of the debate, debase anything that opposes you, the sign of juvenility.

Vintage Claret · Post by **Vintage Claret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:57 pm

The die is cast.

Whether you are a so called 'remoaner' or a 'daydream beleaver' guess we're all in the same boat and we'll just have to wait and see what happens during the divorce negotiations and after the decree absolute arrives.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:00 pm

Everyone agrees Leavers won the referendum but we are governed by a Parliamentary democracy in which the majority of MP's we elected believed remaining in the EU was in the countries interests, and that is their prime responsibility, to press that case.
If they had done so we would have had a rethink in terms of a General Election when you could have voted UKIP in as a government and lived to regret the consequences.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:00 pm

Sidney1st wrote:52% = the winning vote, ergo the will of the people.

As for the Scots, I'm all for them having another vote, but when Brexit is done, I'm not upset about it at all, you're the ******* moron who can't see what I'm saying about it, or only partially reading it to suit yourself.

I see what you're saying, i just disagree with it and think that it is completely illogical for Scotland to wait. Not to mention it would be politically disasterous for the SNP not to seek the referendum after they got people to vote for them on the promise that they would if this very thing happened. "They said there's be a 2nd IndyRef but there wasn't" will be the complaint against them.

The fact is you think the SNP should break a campaign promise to suit the English. That's ridiculous. Imagine if May broke her campaign promise for the party leadership by not triggering A50. You'd be livid.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:03 pm

Fight for what you believe, what Churchill would have made of this wishy washy nation with no stomach for a fight I really don't know, sad that it's an old Tory grandee who is leading the fight back.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:12 pm

ablueclaret wrote:The people voted in all those MP's with EU agendas, if the people had wanted Brexit MP's they would have voted for them, they did not. Democracy works both ways, and in our country Parliament is sovereign

When those MPs were voted in Brexit was not on the table, in the main there weren't any Brexit candidates to vote for so your contention there has no foundation.

What there was though was a conservative party who, as part of their manifesto, promised a referendum on EU membership. That party was elected, against all expectations, into government. So what do you make of that? It could be inferred, very tenuously, that in electing the Toerags back into power there was a vote for Brexit. I don't subscribe to that. What I think happened was that there were those who were anti-EU and saw this as an opportunity to get rid of the EU,there were those who were pro-EU and were so complacent they never expected the result would go against them so put the thought of a referendum top the back of their minds, there were those who would vote Toerag no matter what and there were those who were so disillusioned by the total uselessness of the Labour Party they decided to vote Toerag because the Lib-Dems had prostituted themselves so were not an option. Finally there were those who just couldn't be arsed.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:12 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I see what you're saying, i just disagree with it and think that it is completely illogical for Scotland to wait. Not to mention it would be politically disasterous for the SNP not to seek the referendum after they got people to vote for them on the promise that they would if this very thing happened. "They said there's be a 2nd IndyRef but there wasn't" will be the complaint against them.

The fact is you think the SNP should break a campaign promise to suit the English. That's ridiculous. Imagine if May broke her campaign promise for the party leadership by not triggering A50. You'd be livid.

No, I wouldn't be livid, I tend not to get wound up like you clearly are about politics.

May hasn't ruled out another Indy referendum, not once has she done that.

She's asked Scotland to wait.

It's the SNP who're claiming they're being blocked from having another vote, when actually they aren't, they've just got to wait until the time is right for the UK government to give it the full attention it deserves.

What if the Indy ref happened when the SNP wanted it too, negotiations happened and Scotland got a crap deal as a result?
They'd be running around crying that the Government didn't give them enough attention.

The SNP want to have their cake and eat it now, the UK wants them to have their cake but eat it later quite simply.

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:14 pm

ablueclaret wrote:The leavers would have continued their case if they'd got 48% of the vote, one last heave would have been the motto.

The fact you call us remouners sums up the unpleasant nature of your side of the debate, debase anything that opposes you, the sign of juvenility.

There is nothing unpleasant about it,unless you think facts are unpleasant.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I see what you're saying, i just disagree with it and think that it is completely illogical for Scotland to wait. Not to mention it would be politically disasterous for the SNP not to seek the referendum after they got people to vote for them on the promise that they would if this very thing happened. "They said there's be a 2nd IndyRef but there wasn't" will be the complaint against them.

The fact is you think the SNP should break a campaign promise to suit the English. That's ridiculous. Imagine if May broke her campaign promise for the party leadership by not triggering A50. You'd be livid.

If they have promised something they are in no control of delivering, then they are, in your fine words, idiots

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:16 pm

Damo wrote:If they have promised something they are in no control of delivering, then they are, in your fine words, idiots

They can deliver a referendum whenever they want. Westminster doesn't have to legally recognise it though.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:18 pm

If Theresa May REALLY thought leaving the EU would offer so many glorious opportunities for Britain she would surely have argued the case for leaving in the first place.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:21 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:They can deliver a referendum whenever they want. Westminster doesn't have to legally recognise it though.

What's stopping them then?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:22 pm

Damo wrote:What's stopping them then?

Nothing is, they just want everyone to know how annoyed they are, Sturgeon want's her time in the media whilst she has her Braveheart moment.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:27 pm

Ablue not getting the bites anymore on his football topics so tries his hand at politics.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:29 pm

Damo wrote:What's stopping them then?

The result wouldn't be at all reliable. A referendum that is considered illegitimate by Westminster would have a much smaller turnout than a legitimate one, and those who turned out would disproportionately be those most passionate about the question, which in this case would be pro-indy voters. Knowing that to be true Westmnster would simply reject the result, as it should.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:30 pm

kentonclaret wrote:If Theresa May REALLY thought leaving the EU would offer so many glorious opportunities for Britain she would surely have argued the case for leaving in the first place.

All politicians look out for themselves. Theresa May was quiet to makesure her career benefited whichever way the result went.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:33 pm

Damo wrote:May is in the process of taking back control of 19,000 EU laws.
Hope that brief statement helps you find an answer

That's true, but they will still be enshrined in British law, and in all honesty, how many of those do you actually think will be repealed, and do you think that this will benefit working people?
The reality is that in many cases the rules ensure that goods and services comply with EU standards, so if we remove them then we can't trade with EU countries, and most likely many other countries who acknowledge the EU standard.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:37 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:That's true, but they will still be enshrined in British law, and in all honesty, how many of those do you actually think will be repealed, and do you think that this will benefit working people?
The reality is that in many cases the rules ensure that goods and services comply with EU standards, so if we remove them then we can't trade with EU countries, and most likely many other countries who acknowledge the EU standard.

The anti-tory people on here are absolutely convinced all the laws that the EU introduced re workers rights will be taken out by the Tories and thrown in the bin.
They postively froth at the mouth when they've told everyone that.