Tactics today

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:59 pm

If Dyche sticks to the same tactics and same eleven, it's going to be tough to survive.

In Defour we have a truly top class player, he simply HAS to be starting when he is fit.

What on earth is going on with Brady? Yes I know he hasn't made the best of starts, but he is already reduced to 20 mins from the bench and then played on the wrong side. If Dyche doesn't rate him why on earth did pay all that money for him? Get him in the team and let him play as he should as a left winger with freedom to attack.

I really hope we see both of these two starting on Tuesday, but I very much doubt that we will.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:59 pm

What does that mean, saxo ?

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:59 pm

KRBFC wrote:Dyche's signings look good ones on paper but they don't fit the framework so they can't get in the team. God knows why we signed Defour/Westwood/Gudmundsson (i like all 3) but they dont run around like headless chickens so they have no hope of regular game time unless its Defour back at left wing which is laughable and insulting to him.

Defour and Gudmundsson have been injured. Westwood plays in centre mid where both hendrick and Bartonm have been doing pretty well. Brady is the biggest headscratcher.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:01 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:What does that mean, saxo ?

It means I agree with your comment, but its hard to like cos your a bit of a (bleep)..

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:04 pm

saxo - keep looking up

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:04 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Today was one of those days where you have to accept that by the end of the game, we were outclassed. No shame in that, I reckon Spurs, with Southampton, are easily the best footballing sides we've seen at the Turf this season.
There's no point in pointing fingers at individuals or Dyche's tactics - Spurs were better than us in all departments and would have continued to be so no matter what we tried.
Fair play, move on.

It's a good point that we played a good side today who certainly came out second half a much better side than the first. But it had been a pretty even game and we'd played pretty well. Hooking Gray was mental, unless he was injured, as that effectively killed any threat up front allowing Spurs to push up the pitch and dictate the game. There's been nothing to say or suggest he was injured so it's fair play to say it's a massive bollock dropped by Dyche there.

Compounded by the inability to get arguably our two most creative players into the mix as soon as we needed to chase the game.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:05 pm

tybfc wrote:saxo - keep looking up

The gap is closing..

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:07 pm

Saxoman wrote:The gap is closing..

Even if we drop I don't think we'll be in the same league as you next season saxo. best keep looking over your own shoulder!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:07 pm

Brady got in the side on the strength of his price tag, and got out of it again because of his performances. Maybe other people have seen him more in training and/or reserve games, but I haven't yet seen that he's currently playing better than the players in the team.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:08 pm

Saxoman wrote:The gap is closing..

The gap in between your ears is still of Tardis proportions.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:08 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:Defour and Gudmundsson have been injured. Westwood plays in centre mid where both hendrick and Bartonm have been doing pretty well. Brady is the biggest headscratcher.

Lets not pretend Defour was first choice central midfielder before he was injured, he was either on the bench or playing left wing. The reason Defour doesn't start is not just because he's injured.

Pimlico_Claret · Post by **Pimlico_Claret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:08 pm

Saxoman, I wish the gap between your ears would close,with the help of a sledgehammer

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:09 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:Even if we drop I don't think we'll be in the same league as you next season saxo. best keep looking over your own shoulder!

Today we matched an inform, at full strength prem bound team on their own turf. We've every chance of staying up, and if we do, we've every chance of being a force under TM.

Blyclaret · Post by **Blyclaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:11 pm

The reason we don't have creativity in the team
I.e. Defour and Brady
Is Dyche doesn't want it
He want runners hard workers obey team orders
We are not playing to players strengths
Gray etc

Pimlico_Claret · Post by **Pimlico_Claret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:14 pm

Please can we all agree to ignore the shambolic ramblings of this idiot Saxoman, the braindead pavement licking shoeless shuffling dribbling Shadsworth rent boy

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:16 pm

5 points and played a game more..

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:17 pm

I would agree it made no sense to have one of the best crossers around with two big lumps in the middle, yet play him on the wrong side. Defour too - did he decide on his own to leave his position for 5 minutes, when he roamed around we suddenly looked dangerous.

If anyone can name one moment this season when either of those two has done something impressive on that flank they were on today, I'd be grateful.

It's all bizarre even before you factor in how bad Hendrick was yet wasn't hooked.

Not knocking any of them, Dyche included, just a bad day at the office. Better today than Tuesday.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:22 pm

KRBFC wrote:Lets not pretend Defour was first choice central midfielder before he was injured, he was either on the bench or playing left wing. The reason Defour doesn't start is not just because he's injured.

Wrong as usual.

He started in a two man midfield with Marney before he picked up any injuries. He was still first choice when Hendrick arrived and he scored that wonderful goal against Hull.

He still even started when we shifted to a five man midfield at Leicester.

Blyclaret · Post by **Blyclaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:33 pm

Today's tactics looked like a poor mans Tony Pulis tactics
Bloody awful

Parkvilla · Post by **Parkvilla** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:39 pm

Defour won't play cos unfortunately he won't hammer the ball 50 yards to no one then chase it.The Sean Dyche way run,run,run,defend,defend try to sneak a goal on the break and repeat.Massive change needed on Tuesday

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:46 pm

Parkvilla wrote:Defour won't play cos unfortunately he won't hammer the ball 50 yards to no one then chase it.The Sean Dyche way run,run,run,defend,defend try to sneak a goal on the break and repeat.Massive change needed on Tuesday

You want them to stop running?

Don't know where this "sneak a goal on the break" comes from. Did you miss the recent runs of home wins against Bournemouth, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Southampton, Leicester?

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:50 pm

How any manager can leave Tarkowski out of the side beats me.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:51 pm

Parkvilla wrote:Defour won't play cos unfortunately he won't hammer the ball 50 yards to no one then chase it.The Sean Dyche way run,run,run,defend,defend try to sneak a goal on the break and repeat.Massive change needed on Tuesday

This 'massive change needed on tuesday', does it consist of Guardiola coming in with Aguero, Silva, and Conte lending us Kante and Hazard?

Flat Stanley · Post by **Flat Stanley** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:02 pm

Getting pretty bored of the football under Dyche. Can just about stomach it when we win but even then it can be pretty boring sometimes. Watching hoofball is getting very old. When you get to the premier league you hope it means decent players and better more exciting football. We have decent players who are not playing, are played out of position and are not allowed the freedom to be creative and play any sort of decent football.

I get that it takes time to build a side and we have less resources than other teams so sometimes we just have to battle, good football goes out the window and our better footballers don't get to play. The hope is that we can stay in the league and get more better quality in and that will improve our style of play. None of that though, excuses how little football we try to play, how often our creative players don't start and how bad we are to watch most of the time. We could a least try and play a bit of decent football every now and again. Even if he stays for a while and we stay up I'm really not sure Dyche has the creativity to build an exciting team to watch that is also successful. I'm not sure our style of play will change as long as Dyche is in charge. Much as I respect and admire what he has done for the club that worries me as I would like to see us keep with our traditions and be a decent footballing side.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:07 pm

Flat Stanley wrote:Getting pretty bored of the football under Dyche. Can just about stomach it when we win but even then it can be pretty boring sometimes. Watching hoofball is getting very old. When you get to the premier league you hope it means decent players and better more exciting football. We have decent players who are not playing, are played out of position and are not allowed the freedom to be creative and play any sort of decent football.

I get that it takes time to build a side and we have less resources than other teams so sometimes we just have to battle, good football goes out the window and our better footballers don't get to play. The hope is that we can stay in the league and get more better quality in and that will improve our style of play. None of that though, excuses how little football we try to play, how often our creative players don't start and how bad we are to watch most of the time. We could a least try and play a bit of decent football every now and again. Even if he stays for a while and we stay up I'm really not sure Dyche has the creativity to build an exciting team to watch that is also successful. I'm not sure our style of play will change as long as Dyche is in charge. Much as I respect and admire what he has done for the club that worries me as I would like to see us keep with our traditions and be a decent footballing side.

Stoke, WBA, Palace etc. have learnt to walk before they can run.

Big Sam, Pulis etc. soon realised that you can't go up and stay up by playing like Barcelona. It takes many seasons and there is a reason why Dyche is seen by many people in football as doing a brilliant job.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:12 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Wrong as usual.

He started in a two man midfield with Marney before he picked up any injuries. He was still first choice when Hendrick arrived and he scored that wonderful goal against Hull.

He still even started when we shifted to a five man midfield at Leicester.

You forgot to mention the Liverpool home game. I'm obviously not talking about the early part of the season, he played on the left wing away at Arsenal, home to Bournemouth and others. So he went from 1st choice CM to left wing to a sub, so I don't think i'm wrong when I say a fully fit Defour wouldn't be starting in CM because he wasn't playing CM when he got injured.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:17 pm

Spijed wrote:Stoke, WBA, Palace etc. have learnt to walk before they can run.

Big Sam, Pulis etc. soon realised that you can't go up and stay up by playing like Barcelona. It takes many seasons and there is a reason why Dyche is seen by many people in football as doing a brilliant job.

We hoofed it just as much last season, lets not pretend we've only just started playing this way this season because we have inferior players. Oh and stop mentioning Barcelona, why do idiots presume posters like me expect Barcelona level football when the current style of play is criticized.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:19 pm

Spijed wrote:Stoke, WBA, Palace etc. have learnt to walk before they can run.

Big Sam, Pulis etc. soon realised that you can't go up and stay up by playing like Barcelona. It takes many seasons and there is a reason why Dyche is seen by many people in football as doing a brilliant job.

Exactly - look at Boro and their lovely pass pass possession style that was so successful last year ...

We do play decent football at times. Look at our goal against Liverpool or the first half against Sunderland. Or at times in the first half against Spurs.

Technically teams like Spurs are miles in front of us so we can't try and play the same way - we'll lose 99 times out of 100. Therfore we have to play more percentages more of the time.

Today however, this became ineffective as we took off Gray anmd allowed Spurs to push up and didn't react quickly enough after going behind. So it's fair to criticise our game management. I'm not surprised Defour didn't start today - Barton and hendrick have done well in the middle together and although Defour's a good player he's not going to win a game on his own - especially as he's coming back from injury and has shown he picks up niggles easily.

Both Arfield and Boyd had decent first halves (halfs?) but once we went behind (and it was clear we were struggling) I'd have sacrificed probably Arfield for Brady and Barnes for Defour to push 5 in the middle

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:24 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:Exactly - look at Boro and their lovely pass pass possession style that was so successful last year ...

We do play decent football at times. Look at our goal against Liverpool or the first half against Sunderland. Or at times in the first half against Spurs.

Technically teams like Spurs are miles in front of us so we can't try and play the same way - we'll lose 99 times out of 100. Therfore we have to play more percentages more of the time.

This.

It's really not that hard to understand.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:24 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:Exactly - look at Boro and their lovely pass pass possession style that was so successful last year ...

We do play decent football at times. Look at our goal against Liverpool or the first half against Sunderland. Or at times in the first half against Spurs.

Technically teams like Spurs are miles in front of us so we can't try and play the same way - we'll lose 99 times out of 100. Therfore we have to play more percentages more of the time.

Today however, this became ineffective as we took off Gray anmd allowed Spurs to push up and didn't react quickly enough after going behind. So it's fair to criticise our game management. I'm not surprised Defour didn't start today - Barton and hendrick have done well in the middle together and although Defour's a good player he's not going to win a game on his own - especially as he's coming back from injury and has shown he picks up niggles easily.

Both Arfield and Boyd had decent first halves (halfs?) but once we went behind (and it was clear we were struggling) I'd have sacrificed probably Arfield for Brady and Barnes for Defour to push 5 in the middle

You just said Boro played lovely football which makes the rest of your post count for nothing. Boro hoof it like we do....

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:24 pm

KRBFC wrote:You forgot to mention the Liverpool home game. I'm obviously not talking about the early part of the season, he played on the left wing away at Arsenal, home to Bournemouth and others. So he went from 1st choice CM to left wing to a sub, so I don't think i'm wrong when I say a fully fit Defour wouldn't be starting in CM because he wasn't playing CM when he got injured.

I think that shows that Dyche wants the energy of Barton and Hendrick in a middle 2 and prefers a fit Defour in his midfield over others, even if it means he plays out wide (with a licence to cut inside).

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:26 pm

KRBFC wrote:You just said Boro played lovely football which makes the rest of your post count for nothing. Boro hoof it like we do....

And so did Leicester for the most part last season with Drinkwater hoofing it up to Vardy everytime he got the ball, yet most supporters thought it was brilliant!

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:28 pm

KRBFC wrote:You just said Boro played lovely football which makes the rest of your post count for nothing. Boro hoof it like we do....

They've tried to play a possession game (the lovely is ironic). It doesn't work. When they go behind they resort to hoofing it more direct.

Bottom line is that you need to take chances. We're just about taking enough of ours to keep our heads above water. Teams below us aren't - teams that are staring to put results together are starting to score again. Today reinforced that without Gray, the better teams can cope easily with our forwards. therefore we need to improve this department pronto.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:31 pm

Flat Stanley wrote:Getting pretty bored of the football under Dyche. Can just about stomach it when we win but even then it can be pretty boring sometimes. Watching hoofball is getting very old. When you get to the premier league you hope it means decent players and better more exciting football. We have decent players who are not playing, are played out of position and are not allowed the freedom to be creative and play any sort of decent football.

I get that it takes time to build a side and we have less resources than other teams so sometimes we just have to battle, good football goes out the window and our better footballers don't get to play. The hope is that we can stay in the league and get more better quality in and that will improve our style of play. None of that though, excuses how little football we try to play, how often our creative players don't start and how bad we are to watch most of the time. We could a least try and play a bit of decent football every now and again. Even if he stays for a while and we stay up I'm really not sure Dyche has the creativity to build an exciting team to watch that is also successful. I'm not sure our style of play will change as long as Dyche is in charge. Much as I respect and admire what he has done for the club that worries me as I would like to see us keep with our traditions and be a decent footballing side.

I wonder which father or mother passed on the 'tradition' of that 'decent football' we were known for in the mid to late 80's?

The problem is that some of our fans don't really see what is going on here. We've got in players this season that no other Premier League club would want. Yes even Defour. If another Premier League club had wanted him then he wouldn't have come to us.

I wonder if the reason that Boro are in the relegation places is that they play nice football? They always seem to have a lot of possession yet they hardly ever win.

I wonder if we could get Hendrick, Barton, Brady, Defour, Gray, Vokes, Tarkowski resembling parts of one of the great Premier League footballing sides?

Is that a no then?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:33 pm

ClaretTony wrote:His tactics are really shocking aren't they? They are highlighted on here every time we don't get a good result. Incredible. Admittedly I wouldn't have taken Gray off today.

I am his biggest fan. Will praise him when we win and even when we lose. Doesmt mean he isnt open tp discussion or question. He will qurstion himself privately if not publically.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:42 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:I am his biggest fan. Will praise him when we win and even when we lose. Doesmt mean he isnt open tp discussion or question. He will qurstion himself privately if not publically.

People are open to debate with others who are sensible. Those who have been crying like little bitches that "Dyche is a football dinosaur" or "Dyche doesn't have a clue" etc, and did for most of last season when we won the league as well as this one, are quite rightly mocked.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:01 am

Flat Stanley wrote:Getting pretty bored of the football under Dyche. Can just about stomach it when we win but even then it can be pretty boring sometimes. Watching hoofball is getting very old. When you get to the premier league you hope it means decent players and better more exciting football. We have decent players who are not playing, are played out of position and are not allowed the freedom to be creative and play any sort of decent football.

I get that it takes time to build a side and we have less resources than other teams so sometimes we just have to battle, good football goes out the window and our better footballers don't get to play. The hope is that we can stay in the league and get more better quality in and that will improve our style of play. None of that though, excuses how little football we try to play, how often our creative players don't start and how bad we are to watch most of the time. We could a least try and play a bit of decent football every now and again. Even if he stays for a while and we stay up I'm really not sure Dyche has the creativity to build an exciting team to watch that is also successful. I'm not sure our style of play will change as long as Dyche is in charge. Much as I respect and admire what he has done for the club that worries me as I would like to see us keep with our traditions and be a decent footballing side.

One season in the prem and we're already starting to sound like b@st@rd fans under Alardyce. Well getting rid of him went really well for them, didn't it.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:38 am

I dont mind the poor football. Incidentally I think we play good football a lot of the time. Thought Arfield was best midfielder today and tried some clever stuff.

I also dont mind us mixing it. I just think today was a poor tactical display second half. Its like we were playing for the draw.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:44 am

BabylonClaret wrote:They've tried to play a possession game (the lovely is ironic). It doesn't work. When they go behind they resort to hoofing it more direct.

Bottom line is that you need to take chances. We're just about taking enough of ours to keep our heads above water. Teams below us aren't - teams that are staring to put results together are starting to score again. Today reinforced that without Gray, the better teams can cope easily with our forwards. therefore we need to improve this department pronto.

Boro have played the 2nd most long balls in the league, no brain needed to guess who's top of that list.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:04 am

The Boyd/Arfield axis does not work in a midfield 4 at this level unfortunately,both are too similar type of player and it kills us going forward. Our last league win was against Leicester at home,which incidentally was the last game Defour played in a wide birth before injury.
The subbing of Gray was a game changer today as 1st half he occupied their back 3. He was a constant menace,was always a willing outlet,dare I say his touch,movement and passing was markedly improved today which afforded our sluggish midfield time to get forward. Gray going off killed us today.

We all know it will be the same 11 again lads Tuesday evening unless Gray is injured

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:10 am

taio wrote:Arfield and Boyd were fine first half.

But we haven't won in 7 league games with those two in a midfield four

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:23 am

THEWELLERNUT70 wrote:
We all know it will be the same 11 again lads Tuesday evening unless Gray is injured

You really don't know what our manager is all about after all this time?

I'll bet you that it's not the same XI starting against Stoke even if Gray is fit.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:26 am

Strikes me dyche attends the allardyce/pulis school of targeting winnable games. Anything else are a bonus. Would imagine certain players were risk assesed for the spurs game, on a 'is it worth it' basis.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:28 am

agreenwood wrote:Hendrick aside, today's starting XI was players from last year.

The closer we get to that, the harder goals and results will be to come by. We tried that in 2014/15 and it didn't work.

If Defour & Gudmundsson need a game, I suggest we urgently arrange one and get them back in full contention.

Absolutely bob on

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:30 am

Well, I have to disagree.

At the end of the first half I has happy that we were level and that we seemed to just about have the measure of Spurs, in that neither keeper was busy. Some nice football played by both sides and I do remember thinking that although I wasn't excited at least KRBFC will have at least witnessed a Sean Dyche side playing 'nice' football. So he'd be happy surely.

But second half they played more positively and I think Sean's first sub was tactical. I think he wanted to drop Barnes further back as we were being overrun in midfield. They were not allowing Joey the same amount of time on the ball and we struggled with that and pressure on Joey led to their second. Defour was waiting to come on when they scored their second so let's not criticise the timing of that just for the sake of a moan.

Spurs are a top team and for a while I thought that we were containing them. They swapped it around a little probably to better use their subs who were only on due to injury. They could have had another two or three second half and heads did drop. That needs sorting.

I thought Lowton was very good and Barton first half as well. Ward and Barnes too played well.

The rest were average as the game wore on with Keane guilty of a few sloppy passes.
But all players have dips, todays second half was one of those where too many were off the pace at the same time.

Really want Boro to win or at least draw tomorrow as Hull and Swansea beginning to look dangerous to us.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:37 am

Saxo is on my ignore list.
But just a thought is is it's allowed existence just click bait for this message board? I've seen people get a temporary suspension for much less than its continual indiscretions

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:38 am

And bans

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:41 am

What is wrong with my last post on this thread?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:02 am

Saxoman wrote:What is wrong with my last post on this thread?

Nothing... if it is your last post!

Flat Stanley · Post by **Flat Stanley** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:56 am

scouseclaret wrote:One season in the prem and we're already starting to sound like b@st@rd fans under Alardyce. Well getting rid of him went really well for them, didn't it.

Didn't say I wanted rid of Dyche. I just find the football we play a bit boring. Even last season when we won the league I could count about 5 or 6 games when I came away thinking we had played really good football and I really enjoyed something other than us winning the game.

I understand why Dyche sets the team up like he does and we don't have players as good as some other teams. Sometimes we need to resort to long balls. I still think there is enough room for playing good football more than we do at the moment. The first half of the Spurs game although we did ok was not playing football that was good to watch. It as a pretty dire game.

Just wish Dyche would be a bit more flexible, less stubborn and would trust our better Techincal players a bit more. Hopefully he is learning like he keeps saying and we see that in the future.