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Senor
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Post by Senor » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:43 pm

It appears that there are many, perhaps most posters, to whom results are more valuable than performance and style, particularly those who contrast Burnley`s current league position with their memories of recent unhappy times when Burnley was in the third and fourth divisions, but even in those unhappy days we had footballers who were able to entertain, e.g.Glen Little and Ted Mcminn.

My perspective is one lasting over a period longer than most supporters. I have been a supporter since 1947, having had a season ticket for most of the time since and at a time of Burnley`s greatest need, contributed £200 to become a shareholder. I have been fortunate to see the glory years; to be at Maine Road in 1960, when the team won the old first division, later in the next year to be at Leicester for a night match when we won 6-2 and the team was applauded off the pitch by the home supporters (following another away game at Birmingham four days earlier, when the team had won by the same score) and to be at Old Trafford later in the same season, when we won 4-1.

With the present ultra defensive style, coupled with "hit and hope" long balls, we can only dream of results like these. At home we have have had wins, but not entertainment. Many games, home and away, have been dismal to watch. When do we ever dominate, with free flowing, attractive football? I can think of only one game in the last two seasons, when we achieved this for the whole game, at Brentford, last season.


It is often said that we do not have the quality of players that are able to play this sort of football, but contrary to these suggestions, in addition to the Brentford game, I found the England performances of Michael Keane to be a revelation: his constructive, forward, accurate passes to be very different to the sideways, backwards and "just get rid of it" balls which we often see at Burnley. One must assume that he was being differently directed.

Yes, I have again renewed my season ticket, but sadly without enthusiasm, wishing without hope for attractive, entertaining football.
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tim_noone
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Re: Not content

Post by tim_noone » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:47 pm

Nay lad...have a drink you seem depressed!

claretfern
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Post by claretfern » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:47 pm

Spot on that.

KRBFC
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Re: Not content

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:47 pm

I agree, becareful though you will be accused of being a b#stard fan.

TheFamilyCat
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Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:53 pm

Keep an eye on this one.... He may suggest a defender in central midfield.
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Bordeauxclaret
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Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:54 pm

Another cryer.

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Post by fidelcastro » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:00 pm

The problem the OP has overlooked is that during those halcyon days of the 60's that he mentions, there was something called a maximum wage. Nowadays, the bigger clubs can afford the best players, which means we are very unlikely to dominate for 90 minutes like he wants us to.

Whether the OP likes it or not, staying up this season will represent the greatest achievement in the club's history. At least he will be a part of that too!
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Re: Not content

Post by CleggHall » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:11 pm

No the greatest achievement in the club's history was winning the championship in 1960 (my 1st season watching) with a magnificent team in a highly competitive division competing against a brilliant Spurs side amongst others. The maximum wage helped this but Burnley, at that time, recruited well mainly in the north east, signed outstanding N. Irish players and were well coached, trained and managed. This year's performance has also been a magnificent achievement competing in the PL against 6 big city teams and others. There is something in what the OP says, but let's not knock the 2017 side and its manager. Us older folks have been very fortunate to support the Clarets, long may it continue.
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fidelcastro
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Post by fidelcastro » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:18 pm

CleggHall wrote:No the greatest achievement in the club's history was winning the championship in 1960 (my 1st season watching) with a magnificent team in a highly competitive division competing against a brilliant Spurs side amongst others. The maximum wage helped this but Burnley, at that time, recruited well mainly in the north east, signed outstanding N. Irish players and were well coached, trained and managed. This year's performance has also been a magnificent achievement competing in the PL against 6 big city teams and others. There is something in what the OP says, but let's not knock the 2017 side and its manager. Us older folks have been very fortunate to support the Clarets, long may it continue.
I disagree. There is no longer a level playing field in football in terms of finance, and hasn't been for a long time. For a club our size to stay up in the richest league in the world, would be an amazing achievement. Yes, far more of an achievement than when chain smoking players were paid 2 and 6d per week. :)

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Post by rufus lumley » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:24 pm

Good times bad times enjoy now it could be us playing at Gigg Lane tonight instead of The Dale.Everton on Saturday then United happy days.
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Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Not content

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:29 pm

Is there any chance the OP could cry, throw his toys out of the pram and whinge on here non stop with his bottom lip quivering every time we don't win?

Poor KRBFC is having to do it all by himself at the moment.

Targetman
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Re: Not content

Post by Targetman » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:35 pm

I remember the Brentford game well from last season.
1st half we were amazing, 2nd half we either decided to sit back on our lead or Brentford pushed us back.
We only dominated in the 1st half!

I understand how the OP feels but we are working our way back in the big league. If that means we have to be very cautious in our attacking style then so be it.

When we got back into the Championship all those years ago it took time to establish ourselves. We now have to do the same in the Premier. We are mixing it with some of the best footballers on the planet at the moment, currently our best way to compete against them is by employing the tactics best suited to our players.

Hopefully in the future we can sign more flair players, however that type of footballer at the top level doesn't come cheap!
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scouseclaret
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Post by scouseclaret » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:44 pm

Watching Burnley has indeed been hard work at times this season, but look at the bigger picture. We're building something here, and an essential part of the process is survival this year. SD is doing whatever it takes to ensure that. If we can become established and in time recruit better quality players maybe we will see a more entertaining style.

In the meantime, enjoy the occasional thrilling victories like Everton and Palace. If they don't entertain you you're watching the wrong game.
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bobinho
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Re: Not content

Post by bobinho » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:59 pm

You didn't watch the whole of the Brentford game then?

Another troll...

DCWat
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Post by DCWat » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:09 pm

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Burnley fan around that didn't want us to play attacking, flowing football. There's no denying that we are more functional than anything else, though to an extent, particularly this season, it's a means to an end.

Ultimately we will need to adapt our style, as Stoke have done (not that we've played anything like the style they adopted in their formative Premier League seasons). We certainly need some quality and pace but let's not think that we will out football the money bags, we won't.
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Newcastleclaret93
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Re: Not content

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:11 pm

We haven't got entertaining players?

Defour, JBG, Brady, Gray

They have personally all given me some fantastic entertainment as have other players.

I would advise having a look at the YouTube Vizeh and looking at the crowds reactions during the Everton, palace game this season.

That will highlight how entertaining this team can be.

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Post by dsr » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:17 pm

I'm not quite sure from your OP whether you would rather be relegated playing "attractive football", or whether you expect both attractive football and good results at the same time. There are two separate ambitions, you see, and it seems to me that Burnley have decided that results come first, flowing football can follow from a solid base.

Your memory, I'm sorry to say, is very selective. You remember the glory days of 1960 - we were the best side in England and could outplay anyone - and complain that we aren't that now. But you were watching since 1947 - so presumably you remember the side that came into division 1 and didn't total 100 goals (for and against) in any of the first four seasons after promotion. Scored 40 conceded 40 was the worst, in 42 games. They concentrated first on defence and getting results, then moved on to excitement and goals. It takes time to build.

If what you want is free-flowing football and Premier League football next year, then we must stay in the Premier League. That way we have the chance to provide what you want next year. If we get relegated this year, you can't get what you want next year.

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Re: Not content

Post by Flat Stanley » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:33 pm

There is a huge amount to admire about what Dyche has done. The work ethic, no egos, team spirit all in it together, organisation and all about the team culture he has created is fantastic. He has also helped some of our younger players develop. To be where we are with the resources we have had is unbelievable. I am grateful for all Dyche has done and certainly don't want to lose him. However, there is room for better football than we are playing even with the players we have currently. I'm not talking playing like Barcerlona before someone starts with the usual stupid comments. Dyche talks about mixing it up but we have not got the mix right most of this season certainly away from home. Last season was similar. Always good to win but other than results it's been pretty poor to watch although there is still a lot to admire as I said above. I believe we can win and play more attractive football than we are doing. We might even be doing better than we are if we played better football, were less predictable and took a bit more risk occasionally.

I have watched Burnley since the mid 80s. I have seen some dross over the years but most of the time we have tried to play reasonably attractive football for whatever level we played at (all relative I know) and had some exciting players who got you off your seat. It is all a bit soulless and unimaginative for me at the moment. There is too much framework and not enough freedom for players to be creative. The balance is not there. You follow a team for years through bad times and when you see them in the premier league you hope it will mean great players playing exciting attractive football. Hopefully Dyche can continue to learn and develop and find a way to fit a more attractive brand of football into the good work he has already done.
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Re: Not content

Post by claretspice » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:36 pm

If the OP hasnt enjoyed and been satisfied by the wins against Palace, Bournemouth, Watford, Sunderland and Leicester in particular, then i'd suggest he's the poorer for it.

No question we can be more refined and aesthetically pleasing, and perhaps thats the next stage in our development, but i'd have thought someone who has seen the lows that came after our last glory years would know to be careful what he wishes for.

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Re: Not content

Post by CombatClaret » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:44 pm

To be winning games in the Premier League with free flowing attractive, attacking football after one season.

Just let me finishing building this City I call Rome, should be done by the end of the day.
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Re: Not content

Post by Pstotto » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:12 pm

Ugh did you see that run by Jeff Hendrick? Puh! Rubbish.

And what about that free kick by Brady? Money back for all the fans who witnessed it and were sullied and as for that winning goal against Palace...

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

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Re: Not content

Post by Sidney1st » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:14 pm

Well that was long winded.

Oldrod
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Re: Not content

Post by Oldrod » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:26 pm

The problem the OP has overlooked is that during those halcyon days of the 60's that he mentions, there was something called a maximum wage. Nowadays, the bigger clubs can afford the best players, which means we are very unlikely to dominate for 90 minutes like he wants us to.

Not only that, the gate money , after expenses , was shared between the two clubs. Not sure Manure would like that now.

tim_noone
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Re: Not content

Post by tim_noone » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:34 pm

Its a wind up.... imo.

Oldrod
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Re: Not content

Post by Oldrod » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:36 pm

In the previous post, the first paragraph was copied from a previous poster. Unfortunately I couldn't work out how to attribute it to him/ her.

Steve1956
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Re: Not content

Post by Steve1956 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:12 am

Senor wrote:It appears that there are many, perhaps most posters, to whom results are more valuable than performance and style, particularly those who contrast Burnley`s current league position with their memories of recent unhappy times when Burnley was in the third and fourth divisions, but even in those unhappy days we had footballers who were able to entertain, e.g.Glen Little and Ted Mcminn.

My perspective is one lasting over a period longer than most supporters. I have been a supporter since 1947, having had a season ticket for most of the time since and at a time of Burnley`s greatest need, contributed £200 to become a shareholder. I have been fortunate to see the glory years; to be at Maine Road in 1960, when the team won the old first division, later in the next year to be at Leicester for a night match when we won 6-2 and the team was applauded off the pitch by the home supporters (following another away game at Birmingham four days earlier, when the team had won by the same score) and to be at Old Trafford later in the same season, when we won 4-1.

With the present ultra defensive style, coupled with "hit and hope" long balls, we can only dream of results like these. At home we have have had wins, but not entertainment. Many games, home and away, have been dismal to watch. When do we ever dominate, with free flowing, attractive football? I can think of only one game in the last two seasons, when we achieved this for the whole game, at Brentford, last season.


It is often said that we do not have the quality of players that are able to play this sort of football, but contrary to these suggestions, in addition to the Brentford game, I found the England performances of Michael Keane to be a revelation: his constructive, forward, accurate passes to be very different to the sideways, backwards and "just get rid of it" balls which we often see at Burnley. One must assume that he was being differently directed.

Yes, I have again renewed my season ticket, but sadly without enthusiasm, wishing without hope for attractive, entertaining football.
Wow Senor,that's some achievement being a Claret so long...not many of us have seen the highs of Burnley football club,seeing us Champions of England,then watching us scratching for our life's in the Orient game,massive high and a massive low. Great post by the way you sound like you still have all your marbles at your great age,unlike one or two younger ones on here! :D

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Re: Not content

Post by fidelcastro » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:35 am

Steve1956 wrote:Wow Senor,that's some achievement being a Claret so long...not many of us have seen the highs of Burnley football club,seeing us Champions of England,then watching us scratching for our life's in the Orient game,massive high and a massive low. Great post by the way you sound like you still have all your marbles at your great age,unlike one or two younger ones on here! :D
No he doesn't. He sounds bloody senile! :shock:

Ric_C
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Re: Not content

Post by Ric_C » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:43 am

Bet the OP is that guy in the BL that sits behind me and moans all game

fidelcastro
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Re: Not content

Post by fidelcastro » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:45 am

Ric_C wrote:Bet the OP is that guy in the BL that sits behind me and moans all game
Which one? ;) :lol:

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Re: Not content

Post by Dazzler » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:49 am

Targetman wrote:When we got back into the Championship all those years ago it took time to establish ourselves.
When we got back into the Championship after all those years,I do think we kind of established ourselves by just missing out on the play-offs by one place in the first 2 seasons.

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Re: Not content

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:10 am

great post
I love the fact we are in the PL, do I miss Rochdale away ? Do I ******** !

Senor
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Re: Not content

Post by Senor » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:14 pm

I am obliged to Targetman for correcting me about the game at Brentford, last season. I can only think that I was so dazzled by the unexpected beautiful football played by Burnley in the first half that euphoria persisted for me for the rest of the game and indeed, I was still basking in the memory for several days afterwards. Did it not dispel the theories often advanced on here that we do not have or are not capable of attracting the kind of players who can play this kind of attractive football and still be successful?

I recommend reading another submission on here by Buxton Claret "How Everton sees us" for a non-partisan appraisal of Burnley`s style of play.

dsr
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Re: Not content

Post by dsr » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:50 pm

Senor wrote:I am obliged to Targetman for correcting me about the game at Brentford, last season. I can only think that I was so dazzled by the unexpected beautiful football played by Burnley in the first half that euphoria persisted for me for the rest of the game and indeed, I was still basking in the memory for several days afterwards. Did it not dispel the theories often advanced on here that we do not have or are not capable of attracting the kind of players who can play this kind of attractive football and still be successful?

I recommend reading another submission on here by Buxton Claret "How Everton sees us" for a non-partisan appraisal of Burnley`s style of play.
I'm not interested in a non-partisan appraisal of our style of play. I'm not non-partisan.

It's actually very rare that a side dominates the first half and has the game won by half-time, and plays the same way in the second half. Look at Norwich last week - 6-0 up at half-time., They only drew the second half.

Dark Cloud
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Re: Not content

Post by Dark Cloud » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:45 pm

Whilst most people would applaud the sentiment of the OP, most would also say that doing what it takes in order to stay up this year is of paramount importance, We all know that the football at times isn't scintillating, but it's tight, somewhat defensive and very well organised and it's like that to make it more likely that we'll still be in the PL in September and another £100+ million richer. We COULD play open, entertaining, expansive football, get battered every week home and away and be relegated by Christmas, followed by several seasons of Championship footy in front of 10,000 fans on a good day. OR we can TRY to build a stable PL team and club and gradually move to a position where we can get better players, more capable of entertaining AND not getting beaten. Some of our 1-o home wins this year have been pretty turgid stuff I agree, but I (and most others I think) am very happy to get those wins ANY way we can just now and I come away happy.
As for staying up being our biggest ever achievement, I would suggest it wouldn't be, as winning the top division as we did in 1960 must be the pinnacle in ANY era, but survival would certainly represent something approaching it, especially when you look at where we have been as a club since we went down in 1976.
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Re: Not content

Post by levraiclaret » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:15 pm

I think in 1959-60 not only was there the maximum wage rule but also the gate receipts were equally shared so we were competing on a much more equal basis. Now even with the enormous TV deals BFC are in a no way financial equals of most other teams in the Premier League.

The scale of Dyche's achievements in winning promotion twice and hopefully keeping us up are immense.

Would I prefer our wingers to attack more? Yes.

Would I like our forwards to shoot more? Yes.

Would I prefer our substitutions to be made earlier? Yes.

Am I satisfied with where we are? Not really but it is way beyond my realistic expectations at the start of last season after I had watched us lose 2 - 0 at Ipswich on a rainy Tuesday night. So I am in the content camp.

PS I loved the game at Brentford, I was definitely euphoric afterwards.

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