Supermarine Spitfire

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:17 pm

Funny you should say that, Man of Kent. I congratuled the guy who sits opposite me at work on his 60th birthday. He excitedly tells me his wife has booked him a flight next month in a 2 seater Spitfire! Flying from Goodwood I think. Lucky bugger!

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Fri May 25, 2018 3:22 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6KG4pfbw60

I haven't seen one this year, yet, so I've just watched the above video to remind myself of these awesome machines. The sound of those Merlins gives me goosebumps!

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri May 25, 2018 3:34 pm

What the Spitfires did against the odds over Dunkirk (their first real WW2 battle) changed the course of history. One of those pivotal weeks where the world turned. Tremendous things.

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Fri May 25, 2018 4:50 pm

They should do a modern remake of the Battle of Britain movie. I'm sure Christopher Nolan would do a fine job.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Fri May 25, 2018 4:55 pm

ALP wrote:Here you go chaps, chocks away; taken at Southport a few years back

Archive shot Southport Airshow 2012 by Andy Pritchard, on Flickr

Superb photo, Alp.

Brucefanclaret · Post by **Brucefanclaret** » Fri May 25, 2018 4:56 pm

It’s 1940’s weekend in Ramsbottom this weekend, with a Spitfire fly-past tomorrow afternoon. Anyone local, keep your eyes peeled!

crundale · Post by **crundale** » Fri May 25, 2018 5:48 pm

Beautiful aircraft and can bring a tear to my eye whenever I see one. Has anyone read Geoffrey Wellum's (I think) First Light? Incredibly honest story of bravery, resilience and overwhelming stresses on what were just young men.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 25, 2018 6:49 pm

17 of them (well, 2 of them are Seafires)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSXykTafY6s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Billyblah · Post by **Billyblah** » Fri May 25, 2018 7:42 pm

"A Spitfire bird"....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_u4Md_aXVJE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri May 25, 2018 8:42 pm

Once had a Lancaster come very low over England v Windies at Headingley. It turned round (which took about 40 miles to do

) and came back for another pass.

I thought that the Yorkshire lads had sent it to take out the massed Lancashire contingent.

claret59 · Post by **claret59** » Fri May 25, 2018 9:01 pm

I went to a '40's weekend at Boston Spa a couple of years ago and was thrilled and surprised when a Spitfire did a 'fly past.' I was further surprised by how emotional it made me feel , a real 'lump in the throat' occasion.' It is not just the aircraft, wonderful as it is, but the memories it invoked even though I had no connection with the men or the times of WW2. other than war footage and films depicting the Battle of Britain.
What a debt of gratitude we owe to those men who flew ( and often died) in them.

vancouverclaret · Post by **vancouverclaret** » Fri May 25, 2018 9:18 pm

Spitfire and Lancaster my two favourite planes.
They both flew over Manchester when I worked there in the early 80's before the Woodford air show.
I used to live and hike to the moors near Glossop Derbyshire where the are 17 crashed war planes so cool to see.

exilecanada · Post by **exilecanada** » Fri May 25, 2018 11:23 pm

I’m a bit of an airplane buff myself, not on your levels though. We have a Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum not far from me in Hamilton, Ontario. Many planes are complete, some under restoration. There’s a link below.

http://www.warplane.com/aircraft/collection.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many Lancasters were built in Toronto, and flown to Europe for the war effort, long trek back then. The museum has one of the two still airworthy Lanc Bombers in existence. Last time I visited the museum I took a picture of the Lanc. I’ll post a picture when I figure out how!

Crewe claret · Post by **Crewe claret** » Fri May 25, 2018 11:26 pm

I spent the best part of a year refurbishing the Lancaster on the battle of Britain flight in the late 70's, we were a specialist repair squadron of the RAF and the Lancaster had severe corrosion problems mainly with the rivets on the wings,after we completed the repairs we were allowed a flight in her I have never forgotten that experience it was magical

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Fri May 25, 2018 11:37 pm

exilecanada wrote:I’m a bit of an airplane buff myself, not on your levels though. We have a Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum not far from me in Hamilton, Ontario. Many planes are complete, some under restoration. There’s a link below.

http://www.warplane.com/aircraft/collection.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many Lancasters were built in Toronto, and flown to Europe for the war effort, long trek back then. The museum has one of the two still airworthy Lanc Bombers in existence. Last time I visited the museum I took a picture of the Lanc. I’ll post a picture when I figure out how!

The North American B-25 Mitchell and the Avro Lancaster are very similar.

vancouverclaret · Post by **vancouverclaret** » Fri May 25, 2018 11:47 pm

exilecanada wrote:I’m a bit of an airplane buff myself, not on your levels though. We have a Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum not far from me in Hamilton, Ontario. Many planes are complete, some under restoration. There’s a link below.

http://www.warplane.com/aircraft/collection.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many Lancasters were built in Toronto, and flown to Europe for the war effort, long trek back then. The museum has one of the two still airworthy Lanc Bombers in existence. Last time I visited the museum I took a picture of the Lanc. I’ll post a picture when I figure out how!

It would be worth coming over to Hamilton just to see the museum. Thanks for the link. I was at a birthday party on the weekend and was talking to the guys Dad he said he flew mosquitoes in the war but ended up flying the Bristol.

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Sat May 26, 2018 12:01 am

de Havilland Mosquito "The Wooden Wonder"

exilecanada · Post by **exilecanada** » Sat May 26, 2018 2:58 am

paulus the woodgnome wrote:The North American B-25 Mitchell and the Avro Lancaster are very similar.

The name Avro probably leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of some older Canadians. Before I arrived on these shores , A.V. Roe developed the Avro Arrow, a high altitude, high speed fighter jet to match, if not exceed anything else available at the time. The government of the day chose to cancel any further development on the project in favour of purchasing a plane from ‘Frumps’ predecessors south of the 49th parallel, putting many out of work. One prototype AVRO Arrow flew with positive results. Consequently all drawings were destroyed along with any related hardware, including any planes in the build process. There was an AVRO Arrow exhibit going around at museums a few years ago, containing some artifacts such as pilots suits, bits of salvaged hardware, etc. Consequently many of the Arrow engineers migrated south and became instrumental in the US space project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG04_Ixzhw4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Sat May 26, 2018 7:40 am

exilecanada wrote:The name Avro probably leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of some older Canadians. Before I arrived on these shores , A.V. Roe developed the Avro Arrow, a high altitude, high speed fighter jet to match, if not exceed anything else available at the time. The government of the day chose to cancel any further development on the project in favour of purchasing a plane from ‘Frumps’ predecessors south of the 49th parallel, putting many out of work. One prototype AVRO Arrow flew with positive results. Consequently all drawings were destroyed along with any related hardware, including any planes in the build process. There was an AVRO Arrow exhibit going around at museums a few years ago, containing some artifacts such as pilots suits, bits of salvaged hardware, etc. Consequently many of the Arrow engineers migrated south and became instrumental in the US space project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG04_Ixzhw4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They used to launch scale models into Lake Ontario for testing purposes. A couple of years ago one of them was discovered. After the project was scrapped I understand that these models are the only tangible thing left

crundale · Post by **crundale** » Sat May 26, 2018 8:24 am

Another book to read if you have an interest in this era is a biography of Leonard Cheshire, he of "The Cheshire Homes." He was a pathfinder during the war, flew behind one of the planes dropping the atomic bomb as the British observer, winner of the VC, a veteran of 100 raids over enemy territory and then became a pacifist. Incredible man.

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Sat May 26, 2018 8:32 am

Nolan’s Dunkirk used a number of remote controlled scale Model Stukas and Spitfires for aerial shots in the film.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Sat May 26, 2018 8:47 am

The AVRO Arrow and the TSR2 suffered similar fates, both way ahead of their time and both ignominiously scrapped. The UK was then meant to buy the F111 which never lived up to expectations. And we didn't buy it in the end. We could have built a supersonic Buccaneer, but didn't and then many years later got the Tornado which was OK but apparently wasn't a match for the TSR2. The ADV was ridiculous.

Getting back to the Spitfire my next door neighbour, Roy, is a world expert on this aircraft being a member of FAST; Farnborough Air Science Trust. I have had many discussions with him over the years, a most unassuming 80+ year old who certainly knows his stuff. If you are lucky and you go to FAST (it is a Museum) you may get Roy showing you round.

Oliasclaret · Post by **Oliasclaret** » Sat May 26, 2018 9:28 am

Ah the Mosquito. In my opinion the most beautiful aircraft ever designed and built to do a deadly job. For a short time during the war the fastest aircraft in the sky. It was so well designed I believe it was used in more roles than any other allied aircraft and was the plane the Germans feared the most.
As you may be aware we no longer have a flying example in Britain and only 3 airworthy in the world, all based in the USA. Having said this there is a charity "The people's Mosquito" of which I'm a proud member that are well on the way to rectifying this situation ( please have a look at our website). The De havilland " Mossie" the plane that really won the war

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sat May 26, 2018 12:06 pm

paulus the woodgnome wrote:The North American B-25 Mitchell and the Avro Lancaster are very similar.

Apart from the Mitchell only having two engines, being a fair bit smaller and having a bit of dihedral on the wings outboard of the engines. I suppose you could confuse the two if you saw them at night in fog after about 8 pints! Seriously though, they do have a few similarities so I can see where you are coming from.

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Sat May 26, 2018 1:09 pm

I take your point Benny

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sat May 26, 2018 1:36 pm

Love this thread, I would like to know if the planes were on the other side would the battle of Britain had a different outcome, did we also have the best pilots?

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sat May 26, 2018 3:11 pm

Overall, I’d have to say probably not. A fair number of Luftwaffe pilots of that period had already seen combat in the Spanish civil war as part of the Condor Legion and brought lessons learnt across to the BoB, whereas the RAF pilots were part of a flying club that prided themselves on formation flying. Also, ‘fluid’ Luftwaffe tactics were superior to ours which were last used in the Great War and were based on a rigid formation idea which was cumbersome and complicated to fly. However, our big advantage was playing at home; if one of ours was shot down he could be back in the air in a couple of hours, but if a German was shot down he was ‘lost’ to the Luftwaffe for the rest of the war. However, as the battle progressed the standard of our pilots generally increased and finished the period on a par with the Germans. I think the accepted opinion of the Battle of Britain is that it was a score draw, but because the Germans scrapped Operation Sealion (the invasion of Britain) as they didn’t achieve air superiority, it can be regarded as a victory.

At the start of the battle the Me 109 was on a par with the Spitfire and slightly better than the Hurricane because it had a major advantage; its engine was fuel injected. It might not seem much but if being chased the 109 pilot just pushed his nose down and accelerated away, whereas the Spitfire and Hurricane had carburettors with float bowls which couldn’t handle the negative G. The Merlin would cough and splutter by which time the 109 was away and clear so the only way they could follow was to roll on their backs and pull down which created positive G and prevented the misfire. The trick was to spot them pushing down before they got too far away to chase. Later in the battle the Merlin was fitting with a washer called Miss Schillings orifice which cured the fault. However, the RAF aircraft were always ‘under gunned’ with only .303 Brownings compared to the 109 which had 20mm cannons; two or three hits from those bad boys could bring down a fighter in bits whereas 109s got home riddled with .303 holes, provided it wasn’t the pilot that got riddled!

dales_claret · Post by **dales_claret** » Sat May 26, 2018 4:02 pm

I was at the far end of Southport beach at the air show last year and had the pleasure of the Lancaster flying directly overhead....a memory I will never forget

: IMG_20170917_140430815.jpg (1.75 MiB) Viewed 3174 times

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Sat May 26, 2018 4:51 pm

paulus the woodgnome wrote: I take your point Benny

The Stirling bomber is remarkably similar to the Lancaster. Maybe that's what you are thinking of?

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sat May 26, 2018 5:48 pm

The main difference being the Lancs twin tail and proportional wingspan; the Stirling’s wings were apparently shortened to allow access to the standard RAF hangar which, because of its weight, compromised the Stirling’s service ceiling to about 15,000 ft which was well below the Halifaxs and Lancs.

exilecanada · Post by **exilecanada** » Sat May 26, 2018 7:38 pm

Canadian Warplane Museum’s airworthy Lancaster.

I hope this picture works.

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Sat May 26, 2018 10:31 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:The Stirling bomber is remarkably similar to the Lancaster. Maybe that's what you are thinking of?

Nope, under the influence of alcohol, I just got it plain wrong

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Sat May 26, 2018 10:49 pm

Simply the Best by Andy Pritchard, on Flickr

The sound - superb by Andy Pritchard, on Flickr

Battle of Britain Memorial Flight by Andy Pritchard, on Flickr

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Sun May 27, 2018 10:42 pm

Completely coincidentally I was in a pub beer garden in Dorking, surrey today and a WW2 plane flew right overhead. Haven't got a clue what it was although presuming not a spitfire. Possibly a hurricane? It had the black and white stripes on, as explained above. Luckily I had read this thread this morning, so could impress all with my WW2 plane markings knowledge!

Anyone else see it? I'd be interested to know what it was.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon May 28, 2018 8:08 am

Look, a Lancaster with two engines!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvYzWLv5qc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'The Avro 679 Manchester was a British twin-engine medium bomber developed and manufactured by the Avro aircraft company in the United Kingdom. While not being built in great numbers, it was the forerunner of the famed and vastly more successful four-engined Avro Lancaster, which would become one of the most capable strategic bombers of the Second World War.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Manchester" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Mon May 28, 2018 1:47 pm

Alanstevensonsgloves wrote:Completely coincidentally I was in a pub beer garden in Dorking, surrey today and a WW2 plane flew right overhead. Haven't got a clue what it was although presuming not a spitfire. Possibly a hurricane? It had the black and white stripes on, as explained above. Luckily I had read this thread this morning, so could impress all with my WW2 plane markings knowledge!

Anyone else see it? I'd be interested to know what it was.

If it was Spitfire sized then it could have been a Mustang. I know there's at least one knocking around the South East with invasion stripes.

Hurricanes are rare, only a handful of airworthy examples in this country. Not even sure a Hurricane with stripes even exists.

Was it camo colour or silver?

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Mon May 28, 2018 2:08 pm

Hi Croydon it was camo

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Mon May 28, 2018 2:38 pm

Alanstevensonsgloves wrote:Hi Croydon it was camo

Less likely to be a Mustang then. Most are finished in the traditional US style of bare metal or silver. There is one based out of Goodwood which is in the RAF camo scheme but that has a prominent sharks tooth emblem and does not have invasion stripes, at least certainly not when I flew it 2 years ago

There is definitely a Dakota with invasion markings but that is twin engined and quite a bit bigger than a Spitfire.

It could have been something American such as the Grumman Wildcat or similar. They're a little smaller than a Spitfire overall but quite fat in appearance.

Might have to chalk this one down to experience and use it as an excuse to visit that pub garden on a regular occurrence

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Mon May 28, 2018 6:43 pm

Hi CC, having googled a Dakota, I think it is. It was the spit of this one...

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Mon May 28, 2018 6:50 pm

Mustang P11D

Mustang by Andy Pritchard, on Flickr

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Mon May 28, 2018 6:57 pm

I love the Spitfire so do my kids but my favorite is the Mosquito it would be amazing to see 1 fly but not going to travel to NZ to have the pleasure if that 1 is still flying. My al time favorite though is the Vulcan such a shame it can no longer fly.

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Mon May 28, 2018 7:01 pm

Alanstevensonsgloves wrote:Hi CC, having googled a Dakota, I think it is. It was the spit of this one...

Excellent. I think that's another mystery solved then

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Mon May 28, 2018 7:02 pm

JarrowClaret wrote:I love the Spitfire so do my kids but my favorite is the Mosquito it would be amazing to see 1 fly but not going to travel to NZ to have the pleasure if that 1 is still flying. My al time favorite though is the Vulcan such a shame it can no longer fly.

Check out "The Peoples Mosquito" They are actively building a Mosquito, will take a few years though

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon May 28, 2018 7:06 pm

I've only ever graphed one

I took this last year at Nellis

Really cool to read that Oshkosh has something to do with the Commemorative AF !! Oshkosh show is on my list of things to do but it wont be this year

1968claret · Post by **1968claret** » Mon May 28, 2018 7:07 pm

claret59 wrote: What a debt of gratitude we owe to those men who flew ( and often died) in them.

: EB1B9010-DEEF-4FC8-A930-0ABE73257715.jpeg (211.91 KiB) Viewed 2989 times

1968claret · Post by **1968claret** » Mon May 28, 2018 7:11 pm

ALP wrote:Simply the Best by Andy Pritchard, on Flickr

The sound - superb by Andy Pritchard, on Flickr

Battle of Britain Memorial Flight by Andy Pritchard, on Flickr

ALP those are lovely incredibly sharp photos. What lens are you using? I go to a lot of air shows and thinking of getting a better lens than my Tamron 80-300mm
I am just looking at buying a new lens for my Nikon D3200 and considering the Sigma 150-600mm?

Oliasclaret · Post by **Oliasclaret** » Mon May 28, 2018 7:15 pm

JarrowClaret wrote:I love the Spitfire so do my kids but my favorite is the Mosquito it would be amazing to see 1 fly but not going to travel to NZ to have the pleasure if that 1 is still flying. My al time favorite though is the Vulcan such a shame it can no longer fly.

Hi JC
No need to go to NZ. All three airworth mossies although built in NZ now reside in North America. As I posted earlier the charity I’m a member of ( The People’s Mosquito ) is well on the way to restoring a Mossie for Britain. Wing ribs have been purchased from NZ and we’re now raIsing around 600k for the fuselage, which will be built in Britain. The big purchase will be the 3 Packard Merlin engines will will cost around 1.5 million. With a lot of effort I’m sure we will get there in a few years.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Mon May 28, 2018 7:55 pm

Brilliant news, I don’t understand how we can have Second World War aircraft flying but planes such as the Vulcan can no longer fly as anyone any idea how this works? I think the Vulcan was grounded due to flying hours.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon May 28, 2018 8:05 pm

Watching spring watch for some reason the spitfire is being promoted...a book up for grabs etc.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon May 28, 2018 8:44 pm

https://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This used to be known as the Mosquito Museum and is run by Mosquito fanatics. It houses a few Mosquitos and quite a few other aircraft too. When I went there there were some mechanics working on a Mosquito and they are quite happy to talk about it. If you are in the area I'd recommend it.

It's just off the M25 near St Albans.