Middlesbrough Fans

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:28 pm

Hubby told me there are a couple of Middlesbrough fans near him at work and yesterday and he overheard them talking, there statement was "it's better to go down with parachute payment than to finish 17th, build again and make it next coming back immediately"

I had to ask him if he heard right a couple of times, it makes no sense to me at all and appears desperate and trying to set yourself up for next season in the Championship.

However I wondered if any BFC fans might think similar, I do know a lot said they preferred winning in the Championship to getting beat every week last time we were in the PL, which I can see some merit in but not to go down being better than to stay up, not for any reason.

Appreciate others thoughts though and how high up would this thought process take you, rather go down than finish 16/15th. On another thread I believe some pointed out there is not a lot of difference in terms of money between each place, but surely TV rights, higher gates, sponsorship payments etc. versus parachute is quite a lot not to mention prestige and bragging rights?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:30 pm

It's fine getting relegated if you get promoted again at the first time of asking. If.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:31 pm

To be fair the Championship is the best division in English football by a million miles.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:33 pm

Steve1956 wrote:To be fair the Championship is the best division in English football by a million miles.

Don't think Newcastle fans would agree.

Comments I saw from them last night were along the lines of, 'Finally that's over. We've been shite, the other teams are shite, the refs are shite, everything is shite in the Championship".

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:34 pm

Steve1956 wrote:To be fair the Championship is the best division in English football by a million miles.

so you are in the I'd rather be relegated camp then????

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:35 pm

Falcon wrote:Don't think Newcastle fans would agree.

Comments I saw from them last night were along the lines of, 'Finally that's over. We've been shite, the other teams are shite, the refs are shite, everything is shite in the Championship".

And next season when they get relegated they will be saying exactly the same things about the Premier league.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:36 pm

Boro are probably where we were first time under Dyche.

They've had their eyes opened to the current state of the PL and what's needed to survive.
The Boro fans genuinely seemed to believe they'd finish mid table or thereabouts, but they'd failed to consider the PL had moved on during their 7 year absence.
Assuming they can learn from this, they'll sign some better players and get a better manager, but also they'll have some actual money in the bank instead of relying on Gibson to put his hand in his pockets.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:36 pm

It's a good job that's what they want, relegation wise cos that's what they're getting

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:38 pm

Prefer to get relegated, to then try and get promoted to where you preferred to get relegated from???

Makes no sense.

Every year we stay up, the bigger pull we become.

I love the championship, the only thing the premiere league is good for IMO is the cash. Sadly a club like ours relies on staying here for as long as possible to make sure we have a decent standard of football on offer for years to come.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:39 pm

Will struggle to come close next year. Would think for starters Negredo, Chambers, Leadbitter will all be gone as out of contract or loan ending. Then cant see Valdes and Ramirez wanting to stick around. Gibson should be allowed to go if bids come in.

Although they do have Bamford and can see him getting 50 goals next year.

Looking at the squad as well it's scary how many players over 30 they have that will be drawing extortionate wages

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:39 pm

They're trying to pull a bit of consolation out of a dismal situation. It's called "making the best of it", though admittedly it's a pretty poor best. If they still had a realistic chance of stopping up, they wouldn't be saying it.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:42 pm

KateR wrote:so you are in the I'd rather be relegated camp then????

No I want my club to prosper,I'm worried though we might.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:42 pm

dsr wrote:They're trying to pull a bit of consolation out of a dismal situation. It's called "making the best of it", though admittedly it's a pretty poor best. If they still had a realistic chance of stopping up, they wouldn't be saying it.

my thoughts exactly

MiltonKeynesClaret93 · Post by **MiltonKeynesClaret93** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:45 pm

At least they might be able to win the Championship title if us and Brighton aren't playing in it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:51 pm

There are 17 teams in the championship that have been in the PL.

Says it all really. There are no guarantees that you come straight back up.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:51 pm

Rileybobs wrote:It's fine getting relegated if you get promoted again at the first time of asking. If.

Nail hit squarely on the head. Two years ago we went down with a stable manager in charge; we didn't have to get big earners off the wage bill or have big-time Charlies demanding a move and have to buy a new team to replace them.

Despite getting off to a slowish start last season, that stability led to us winning the Championship.

No idea what Boro's situation will be regarding the squad but they need a new manager and will then no doubt demand immediate success. It won't be easy for them.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:56 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:There are 17 teams in the championship that have been in the PL.

Says it all really. There are no guarantees that you come straight back up.

I've never thought to see how many former PL clubs are in the championship.
That's quite a sobering thought.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:59 pm

More money in parachute payments? Are you sure??!

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:01 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I've never thought to see how many former PL clubs are in the championship.
That's quite a sobering thought.

Also 7 in the League One and 2 in the Second

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:04 pm

Might be old news, but clubs surviving only one season in the PL get only 2 years of parachute payments nowadays.

Feel free to laugh in their faces.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ier-league

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:07 pm

Steve1956 wrote:To be fair the Championship is the best division in English football by a million miles.

Hate to say it but I totally agree. I know I'm sad but I prefer championship football. For me the Premier League is foreign football. The ratio of British home grown players is far bigger in the Championship and the football, while not as skillful, is more honest IMO.

I'm pretty much the same with all sports, I find it far more interesting and exciting when british sports people are involved. In particular motor racing, hold's my interest much more. I know some people watch sport to see the best but rooting for home grown competitors just gives it an edge for me.

I know I've followed Burnley since I was child but I couldn't see myself following the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea or City when they field almost an entire team of foreigners. The home grown players we have makes me proud to be a Burnley supporter even more.

Having said all this I would still like us to stay up just see who SD signs in the summer and if he can change his game plan for next season and add a bit of pace and flair.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:12 pm

you have to worry about Boro fans! They even thought Karanka wasn't a ......

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:18 pm

Only us and Newcastle (twice) have won automatic promotion immediately after relegation in the last ten years or so.

Considering Middlesbrough are a club clearly pulling in different directions I'd say they've the worst chance out of any of the three relegated sides, whether it's Hull or Swansea, of automatic promotion next year.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:25 pm

My understanding of how payments are made it is 3 installments, so If you finish 17 th you get £108 million paid over 3 payments over the next year.
If you finish 2o th you get £98 million plus £33 million in parachute payments so if you are looking at moneys paid yes bottom club could be paid more for going down. But it is a big IF on getting promotion following season.
There are some other parts as to when after you get promoted you receive any money. Back when money was given back for season ticket holders who had renewed early, it was not paid until October. I asked about the money in the August and was told that we would go into administration if money had been paid back in August.
So to me survival is better than the yo yo of going down and IF getting back.
So utc and lets get the points to end up 12 th get £115 million and be able to build on the team for premier football.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:29 pm

It's good for the club and town financially (& for publicity) to be in The Prem but, like a few on here, I find the Championship a more interesting league. I still really want us to stay up but would take some consolation if we go down (I don't think we will).
For fans of any team thinking they will bounce straight up, there are some sobering figures linked in a Telegraph article (couple of seasons out of date now).
Of relegated teams:
Only 23.5% were promoted in 1st year, 34% within 2 years.
There's a histogram about half way down which suggests:
Average position after 1st season 11th
For those still in Championship 2nd season 12th/13th
For those still there for a 3rd season 13th/14th

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... nship.html

burnleyaremy2ndteam · Post by **burnleyaremy2ndteam** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:47 pm

Boro fan here! I for one am gutted we are going down and am not looking forward to the prospect of Championship football. Fingers crossed we can 'do a Burnley' I suppose it all depends on the manager we get in. Its a gamble though, we spent 7 long years in the Championship, I remember the dwindling attendances and dire performances under Gordon Strachan. Fingers crossed we will be playing you guys again 2018/19 !

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:47 pm

As up the beehole has pointed out, staying up would give boro, us and Hull an extra £14 million in parachute payments, with this being paid in the third year after relegation. Should any (or all) of the clubs be relegated, they will only be entitled to two years of parachute payments. This applies to all clubs who only remain in the PL for one year going forward from this season.

It does allow a little more breathing room on contracts to attract better players, should clubs wish to risk the additional revenue.

Of course that is also ignoring the fact for staying up a club would receive a guaranteed £100m for finishing last the following season, whereas the relegated club would only receive £55m in their first years parachute payment, whilst in the championship.

So, in essence, we could agree with those borough fans that its better to go down, but then we'd all be wrong with around 59 million reasons why...

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:49 pm

Darthlaw wrote:As up the beehole has pointed out, staying up would give boro, us and Hull an extra £14 million in parachute payments, with this being paid in the third year after relegation. Should any (or all) of the clubs be relegated, they will only be entitled to two years of parachute payments. This applies to all clubs who only remain in the PL for one year going forward from this season.

It does allow a little more breathing room on contracts to attract better players, should clubs wish to risk the additional revenue.

Of course that is also ignoring the fact for staying up a club would receive a guaranteed £100m for finishing last the following season, whereas the relegated club would only receive £55m in their first years parachute payment.

So, in essence, we could agree with those borough fans that its better to go down, but then we'd all be wrong with around 59 million reasons why...

Bit like Scotland then with GS

At least he is consistent lol

not going to be easy but good luck now you have got rid of AK, did not like him one little bit, sorry!

burnleyaremy2ndteam · Post by **burnleyaremy2ndteam** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:04 pm

Bit like Scotland then with GS At least he is consistent lol

not going to be easy but good luck now you have got rid of AK, did not like him one little bit, sorry!

I can't fault the guy for achieving what 3 other managers couldn't but the guy needs to work on his man management skills! He wasnt the right choice for the premeir league but Agnew is even worse! I do wonder how many points Karanka would have taken from our last month but it is what it is!

Best of luck to Burnley, one more win should do it this season and then push on next year!

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:10 pm

burnleyaremy2ndteam wrote:Boro fan here! I for one am gutted we are going down and am not looking forward to the prospect of Championship football. Fingers crossed we can 'do a Burnley' I suppose it all depends on the manager we get in. Its a gamble though, we spent 7 long years in the Championship, I remember the dwindling attendances and dire performances under Gordon Strachan. Fingers crossed we will be playing you guys again 2018/19 !

You might yet be playing us at least twice in 17/18................

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:34 pm

box_of_frogs wrote:You might yet be playing us at least twice in 17/18................

Such a cheery soul, aren't you?

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:14 pm

Id happily go down if we kept a decent squad built on it and was assured inmediate promotion

Away days are much better in the championship

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:26 pm

I understand their point but whilst I like the Championship it has to be better to stay in the big league and try and build on it, especially if you have a good Board of Directors and grounded Manager, which I believe we have both. The problem with Boro is what we all know in that that they've thrown big money especially in wages at some of their players, Downing, Negrado, Ramirez etc etc. My son lives in Boro, he was telling me their fans are expecting at least £30 million for Gibson (the player not the Chairman

) . What is Michael Keane worth then I wonder?

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:43 pm

I'm just relishing the prospect of us winning our right to remain in this league for the first time. what an achievement that will be. just to prove that we are good enough for the top flight rather than 'simply' being the best in the second tier. i fully understand the sense of relief felt when a season of 30 plus defeats finally ends; with the hope of 30 plus wins and promotion in the championship the following season.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:44 pm

Have to say I for one would be quite happy to in 20 yrs time still be in the prem like say Arsenal who have not won a major title for some 3 yrs now.
But having spent a lot of years in the lower leagues away at Mansfield, Carlisle, Lincoln, Hartlepool, Exeter, Torquay and still lost been in the prem as an established team losing at Liverpool Chelsea etc far more rewarding. Agree can be more fum going to a game expecting to win, have a few pints good sing song and then it all goes wrong but they cant take that away from me. lol

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:53 pm

burnleyaremy2ndteam wrote: He wasnt the right choice for the premeir league but Agnew is even worse!

I immediately wrote Boro off when I saw it was Agnew. I can still remember the 0-2 at Charlton. Odd decision to bin Karanka with no one lined up to replace him.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:58 pm

"Odd decision to bin Karanka" Fan pressure I understand.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:10 pm

Steve1956 wrote:To be fair the Championship is the best division in English football by a million miles.

When you are doing well, I can't say I enjoy the Championship when we were an average side. Whilst this season even if we are low I enjoy it.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:48 pm

Spijed wrote:Such a cheery soul, aren't you?

Doesn't mean I don't think we'll stay up, merely acknowledging the fact that its a little close for comfort! A professional Man Utd performance at the weekend will do the job nicely.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:00 pm

KateR wrote:Hubby told me there are a couple of Middlesbrough fans near him at work and yesterday and he overheard them talking, there statement was "it's better to go down with parachute payment than to finish 17th, build again and make it next coming back immediately"

I had to ask him if he heard right a couple of times, it makes no sense to me at all and appears desperate and trying to set yourself up for next season in the Championship.

However I wondered if any BFC fans might think similar, I do know a lot said they preferred winning in the Championship to getting beat every week last time we were in the PL, which I can see some merit in but not to go down being better than to stay up, not for any reason.

Appreciate others thoughts though and how high up would this thought process take you, rather go down than finish 16/15th. On another thread I believe some pointed out there is not a lot of difference in terms of money between each place, but surely TV rights, higher gates, sponsorship payments etc. versus parachute is quite a lot not to mention prestige and bragging rights?

Hi Kate, you've got this exactly right, it's always better to avoid relegation. Yes, if you get relegated it's great to get promoted the following season. And, yo-yo is always better than not getting back up. But, there's a lot more money available if you stay up and the more seasons you stay up the more money is available to build the club. Of course, being at the lower end of the Premier League will always mean more defeats than victories. But, the chance to beat Liverpool and Everton and draw with Chelsea and ManU is better than competing with sides in the Championship.

UTC

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:15 pm

They've got to only be saying that because they've dropped like a hotpot.

Finishing 17th surely means more 'pulling power' - better players wanting to come to you.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:27 pm

Deluded ,they have offered very little this year.Unlike us we had goal scorers last year .Our squad had better players and of course we had Sean.
It's not easy to bounce back in the season following relegation ask Leeds fans

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:38 pm

Middlesbrough left it too long with Karanka's defensive football. The new chap seems to have a more positive approach but probably won't get the job!
If a team comes straight back, they should count themselves lucky. (Inc us) Not many do that. It is usually a painful rebuild process.

I like the championship (when we are winning). However, the future should be in the Prem, if we can sustain our careful management of finances and not get silly. Unfortunately, the fan base changes and the expectancy is always increasing. I have been from top to bottom and back again with Burnley and am very grateful for our miracle position. Burnley is a tiny town against massive cities and massive investment. A true miracle.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:42 pm

I'd prefer to stay in PL. A club like ours needs the PL money to stabilise and build for the future. However for a relegated club they can look forward to less foreign players, more honest players, less aloof players, less biased refs, less plastics, competitive games , more chance of away tickets and less beatings. Not so bad.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:53 pm

Being in the top division has to be the aim but this needs to be done with sensible and reasonably sustainable spending. We have all seen similar size and bigger clubs than us suffer when relegated due to overspending to try and maintain premier league football. We will be in a relegation battle of sorts pretty much every season or certainly relegation candidates anyway.