It's not just about Brexit

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Sidney1st
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Sidney1st » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:32 am

Student loans are only paid back if they earn over a certain amount aren't they?

Hipper
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Hipper » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:40 am

Sidney1st wrote:Am I allowed to hold a poll to find out why people vote tory?
There will be some people who vote for them because they've always done it, just like some people vote Labour because they've always done it regardless of who's in charge.

I couldn't tell you which policies people agree with, that's their own personal opinion.
I've mostly voted Conservative. In the 1970s until New Labour, Labour was different to how we know it today. The only time I got it wrong was when I voted for the John Major government, on the strength of Kenneth Clarke as Chancellor. He seemed so much more impressive then Gordon Brown in a televised debate. Clarke talked as he always does with a freedom coming from confidence in himself and his ideas; Brown talked like a robot just spouting Labour policy and no more. I was wrong because the Major government couldn't agree on anything amongst themselves (notably the EU) whereas Blair had a programme and followed it, including Brown continuing many of Clarkes policies (such as remaining out of the Euro) and, at first, keeping the fuel tax increases. Unfortunately as often happens the Blair government got too confident and over did the spending on the assumption that there would be no more 'bust' in the 'boom and bust' theory of economics.

I'll be voting Conservative this time. I DO want stability more than anything else. Stability is good for most people. The only ones who will risk instability for radical change are those with little to lose. I'm not one of them. I would like less extreme distribution of wealth, not just across the UK but the world. I don't like the continuing increase in the UK and world populations. I don't like the power of global businesses. I'm frustrated that the environment, particularly climate change, seems to have been forgotten. I would prefer proportional representation. Which one of the two big parties can best deliver on this without destroying what we have?

No Ney Never
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by No Ney Never » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:20 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Yeah that's it!

Sod the NHS! Get rid of the yellow lines instead!
It is a very large and complex organisation. Successive governments will continue to struggle to master it. I am more interested in the things that make a difference to my life.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:21 am

Hipper wrote:I'll be voting Conservative this time. I DO want stability more than anything else. Stability is good for most people. The only ones who will risk instability for radical change are those with little to lose. I'm not one of them.
I'd be interested to know how many people value stability as highly as you do Hipper, and how many of them also voted to leave the European Union.

Because Brexit is the most radical and destabilising thing to happen to this country in 60+ years.

So I find it hard to listen to people in the Conservative party promoting themselves as guardians of stability, when they're the ones who have plunged this country into chaos and uncertainty.

This level of doublespeak wouldn't look out of place in 1984.
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by KateR » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:22 am

If you don't understand its ALL about Brexit then you simply don't understand anything about how this all works, you should be able to work it out for yourself, everything else on this vote is just a by product.

Important by products yes for sure but don't be fooled by the OP.

You can not control where you were born, nor who you parents are, wealthy or poor, but you can control your own destiny, you can think an not just carry on the tradition of what your parents voted or the majority of the area vote including work friends who also start shaping your thoughts or at university. You can decide if you are an idealist or realist, whether you want to get involved or "you can't change it so am not bothered, but majority (hopefully) do think how it effects them personally or the country in general. For me what affects the nation filters down so I don't just look at my own circumstances except where there are what I term issues that I feel strongly about, such as capital punishment, the armed forces, so they help me to shape what I think and what I will vote, JC and his party will therefore never get my vote, he is weak and an idealist hiding in a Trot skin.

but in the end it's ALL about Bretix for this vote.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by lucs86 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:45 am

Wealth redistribution in UK; wealth redistribution globally (aid spending); taking on corporate power; the environment; voting reform: some of these things might become words printed in the Tory manifesto but in reality they are so far off the table, and for a few of them I think the Tory agenda moves in the opposite direction. They are things that would be considered radical or loony on the front page of the Daily Mail, which is basically how you figure out what Tory policy is. I think there's a contradiction in voting for the idea of stability and then listing policies that could only be achieved with a serious change in direction.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by dpinsussex » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:52 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi dpinsussex, there are a lot of stats in the ONS report: "Effects of taxes and benefits on UK household income: financial year ending 2016."
Though ONS analyses across households, rather than individuals, and reports in top 1/5th and bottom 1/5th.

Table of contents
Main points
Things you need to know about this release
Taxes and benefits lead to income being shared more equally
Half of households in the UK receive more in benefits than they paid in taxes
Households with main earner between 25 and 64 paid more in taxes than they received in benefits
Cash benefits have the largest effect on reducing income inequality
Housing benefit is the most progressive cash benefit, though the State Pension makes the largest contribution to the overall progressivity of cash benefits
Economic context
What’s changed in this bulletin?
Quality and methodology
Users and uses of these statistics
Related statistics and analysis

Main points
In the financial year ending 2016, the average income of the richest fifth of households before taxes and benefits was £84,700 per year, 12 times greater than that of the poorest fifth (£7,200 per year). An increase in the average income from employment for the poorest fifth of households has reduced this ratio from 14 to 1 in the financial year ending 2015.
The ratio between the average income of the top and bottom fifth of households (£63,300 and £17,200 respectively) is reduced to less than 4 to 1 after accounting for benefits (both cash and in kind) and taxes (both direct and indirect).
On average, households paid £7,800 per year in direct taxes (such as Income Tax, National Insurance contributions and Council Tax), equivalent to 18.7% of their gross income. Richer households pay higher proportions of their income in direct taxes than poorer households.
The poorest households paid more of their disposable income in indirect taxes (such as Value Added Tax (VAT) and duties on alcohol and fuel) than the richest (27.0% and 14.4% respectively) and therefore indirect taxes cause an increase in income inequality.
There has been a 14% increase in the average amount paid in Insurance Premium Tax for all households, reflecting the November 2015 increase in the standard rate from 6% to 9.5%.
Overall, 50.5% of all households received more in benefits (including in kind benefits such as education) than they paid in taxes (direct and indirect). This is equivalent to 13.7 million households and continues the downward trend seen since the financial year ending 2011.
Households where the main earner is aged between 25 and 64 paid more in taxes (direct and indirect) than they received in benefits (including in kind benefits), whilst the reverse was true for those aged 65 and over.
Despite being less progressive (targeted towards reducing inequality) than many of the other benefits, the State Pension has consistently made the largest contribution to the overall progressivity of cash benefits over the past 22 years.
I only wanted the actual numbers.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by HatfieldClaret » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:23 am

Sidney1st wrote:Am I allowed to hold a poll to find out why people vote tory?
There will be some people who vote for them because they've always done it, just like some people vote Labour because they've always done it regardless of who's in charge.

I couldn't tell you which policies people agree with, that's their own personal opinion.
I have always voted Conservative except once. During the 80's the London Labour councils were the Loony left, then there was Foot then Militant. At Blair's first election to PM I voted against my useless Tory MP and thought Blair offered something new. Always voted Conservative since because I just don't think the Labour party could organise a proverbial in a brewery; for example Brown/Miliband/Balls at the Treasury and then the debacle over their leadership elections. They have some fair policies and I don't criticise people for their political leanings (I'm a nice Tory), but if they can't organise their own leadership elections what can they do to the country ? Then look at the way Labour has turned in on itself and the way Momentum have treated their own Labour party members and become the 'nasty party'. Everyone says JC is a 'nice guy'; don't quite see it somehow. However, I've worked for some really nice men and women and found that the nicer they are the more ineffectual they are, generally speaking.

As the old saying goes, the Conservatives always get elected when Labour have run out of everybody else's money.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:54 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:I'd be interested to know how many people value stability as highly as you do Hipper, and how many of them also voted to leave the European Union.

Because Brexit is the most radical and destabilising thing to happen to this country in 60+ years.

So I find it hard to listen to people in the Conservative party promoting themselves as guardians of stability, when they're the ones who have plunged this country into chaos and uncertainty.

This level of doublespeak wouldn't look out of place in 1984.

"Conservative party promoting themselves as guardians of stability, when they're the ones who have plunged this country into chaos and uncertainty. "

The Conservative party manifesto of 2015 included a pledge to hold a referendum on EU membership. A simple in or out decision. They were democratically elected to govern on this manifesto.

They delivered on this pledge.

The Leave campaign, as the Remain campaign, was a cross-party entity, made up of all political persuasions, union, business and various industry representatives.

June 23rd 2016 the referendum was held. It proved to be the biggest expression of democracy Britain as ever seen. With millions registering to vote for the first time.

17.4 million people voted to leave the EU.

So in summary. There has not been the economic apocalyptic, armageddon that the bare faced liars in terms Remain camp, said would happen. We have not been plunged into "chaos and uncertainty" by the Conservative Party.

Instead this-

Manifesto.

Election.

Referendum.

Triggering of Article 50.

The hysteria and irrational panic of some Remoaners would not be out of place in the 2005 film , War of The World's.

aggi
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by aggi » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 pm

I think Ringo referring to War of the Worlds as a 2005 film tells us all we need to know about him ;)

Anyway, this made me chuckle

Image
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:34 pm

aggi wrote:I think Ringo referring to War of the Worlds as a 2005 film tells us all we need to know about him ;)

Anyway, this made me chuckle

Image

You don't play for Lincoln City do you? Cos that was some serious playing the man, not the ball! :D

aggi
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by aggi » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:08 pm

Well, I do currently have a physique akin to Rhead.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:14 pm

aggi wrote:Well, I do currently have a physique akin to Rhead.

Matt Rhead claimed he still has the same waistline he had when was 18.

"It's true! I've always been a fat get!" he boasted.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Hipper » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:48 pm

lucs86 wrote:Wealth redistribution in UK; wealth redistribution globally (aid spending); taking on corporate power; the environment; voting reform: some of these things might become words printed in the Tory manifesto but in reality they are so far off the table, and for a few of them I think the Tory agenda moves in the opposite direction. They are things that would be considered radical or loony on the front page of the Daily Mail, which is basically how you figure out what Tory policy is. I think there's a contradiction in voting for the idea of stability and then listing policies that could only be achieved with a serious change in direction.
When I vote for a party I don't expect to agree with everything they propose. I have ideals but accept I have to compromise on them. I want those things I listed (which are generally considered more left wing) but I do not want to give up what I have to get them for others. I do not believe that Jeremy Corbyn and his Labour party can actually achieve any of these things without causing considerable damage.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Pstotto » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:27 pm

66% of Burnley voted for Brexit. Do it again.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:36 pm

'It's not just about Brexit'


That's right, it's about football and sad cases as well.

tiger76
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:34 pm

What's really happening in the talks https://uk.news.yahoo.com/mps-urges-uk- ... 2397.html

AndrewJB
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:39 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:21 am
I'd be interested to know how many people value stability as highly as you do Hipper, and how many of them also voted to leave the European Union.

Because Brexit is the most radical and destabilising thing to happen to this country in 60+ years.

So I find it hard to listen to people in the Conservative party promoting themselves as guardians of stability, when they're the ones who have plunged this country into chaos and uncertainty.

This level of doublespeak wouldn't look out of place in 1984.
Prescient words!

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Rowls » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:48 pm

This thread is the equivalent of those Japanese bast@rds who were still fighting WWII on remote islands into the 70s, refusing to believe the war had been lost.

If we can get Lord heseltine to ask you to surrender will you stop punishing yourselves?
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:27 pm


aggi
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by aggi » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:37 am

I recently learnt the phrase "gaslighting". Seems it may well be applicable here with Johnson trying to rename No Deal an "Australian type deal" (this rebranding has been going on for quite a while) and also saying it is a "very good option". Quite a step away from ""one of the easiest [trade deals] in human history"".

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1 ... 36960?s=19

tiger76
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:04 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:37 am
I recently learnt the phrase "gaslighting". Seems it may well be applicable here with Johnson trying to rename No Deal an "Australian type deal" (this rebranding has been going on for quite a while) and also saying it is a "very good option". Quite a step away from ""one of the easiest [trade deals] in human history"".

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1 ... 36960?s=19
If he wanted to have a no deal brexit, then he should have made that clear in the GE, the reality is we either come to some form of compromise with the EU now, or at a later stage, because sooner or later we'll have to find common ground to enable us both to trade effectively, that's just the nature of international trade, i see the UK government is attempting to blame the EU for the talks collapsing, well the EU haven't changed their position since 2016, they've always been clear that they'll never sign up to anything which harms the single market, that's been the case from June 2016, and they've explicitly stated that if we want tariff free access to that single market, then we have to sign up to the 4 freedoms, so the ball is in the UK'S court as far as i can see, and it's up to us to find a workable solution.

Of course we could ask for an extension if we so desired, but this government of dunderheads won't even do that, they're quite happy to crash out without a deal, well that's fine when all our food prices are increasing rapidly due to export/import duties don't complain.

I voted for brexit, but i didn't vote for this brexit, if the government want a no deal, then it's only right they go back to the public to get approval.
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:08 pm

LV.jpg
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by cbx750 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:14 pm

:roll: That flag is upside down. :roll:

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:54 pm

Positive view/analysis of a No Deal Brexit by Nick Tolhurst (former official in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and now a leading speaker and commentator in business sustainability and international and European political developments)

"Whisper it quietly but I’m beginning to see (some) positives in the No deal scenario for........Europe

German media seems increasingly resigned to it - and there’s a reason for this - it no longer fears this.

After Brexit vote 4 of the major fears in EU were the following:

1. Govts feared a rightwing eurosceptic domino effect
2. Ireland feared border chaos
3. Northern Europe feared reduction in exports
4. Eastern Europe feared for its citizens in the UK

The eurosceptic domino effect never happened,indeed it drew EU govts closer together like never before. Seeing the chaos engulf UK no one - even the French arch eurosceptic National Front - wants to destroy themselves the way the UK has over the last 4 years.

The Irish border issue is despite some difficulty turning out to be less contentious. Most parties in Ireland have behaved responsibly - while Johnson’s apparent acquiescence to Irish Sea border means the Irish question could turn out to be a 1st step to unification.

Exports to UK may turn out less of a problem than 1st thought:
a. UK has shown itself incapable of organising new border arrangements so is likely to allow most imports in anyway.
b. EU has concluded trade deals with states equivalent to UK trade since 2016 mitigating loss.

The extended delay has allowed a gradual shift of supply chains and service operators to the EU mainland. Post Coronavirus/Brexit UK economic & £ weakness is likely to see a reduction in UK imports from everywhere that a deal might not remedy anyway

While East/South Europeans are no longer fearing return of UK resident workers. Indeed some like Poland were actively encouraging it in 2019 as Labour shortages hit. Eastern Europe has caught up & the era of big Eastern emigration was drawing to a close even before Brexit.

As someone (for obvious reasons) who reads German media everyday it’s surprising from a UK perspective how little German media care about “no deal scenario”......They simply don’t care. The reporting is more about how UK isn’t prepared.

The Germans? Ist absolut egal.

Thats why UK govt may be right when they blame EU for “not enough progress” in Brexit talks. I believe EU now no longer fears no deal & will do a deal only if it gets exactly what it wants. A bit of compromise for form sake perhaps, but essentially..it’s EUs deal or no deal.

This is where it gets wierd. I now think the real debate is about what sort of no deal it is. I think there’ll be enough caveats agreed & UK will keep borders open in order to continue Negotiating.

Brexit won’t finish on January 2021......it’s only just begun."

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:06 pm

It’s always been the EU deal or no deal - that’s why it was always going to be No Deal. There will be small deals on security and information exchange Etc and I still think EU businesses aren’t so stupid as to cut themselves of from the City But other than that it be a few years before there’s a big Trade Deal.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by clarethomer » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:14 pm

It's interesting how all of this has become about a winner and loser with the outcome of these talks.

I have been guilty of seeing the situation this way too. It's about the trade we gain/lose in a relationship or about the cost and impact (either positive or negative) on an industry etc.

From what I can see, Brexit brings just a new 'season' to both the UK and the EU to continue on their journeys. Like many divorces, there is the bitter rhetoric and upset that can take place by those who feel hurt by the situation but time will heal and time will provide opportunities for each side to seek what they want in future. There is an opportunity where both parties can 'win' still.

The fact that German's don't give much attention to Brexit, that's good. I think they were paying more attention to the circa 40% increase in contribution to the EU and the internal legal wranglings that the euro bond bailout was creating. That is absolutely the key thing they should be focused on. They are committed to this relationship and want to make it work for them and need to ensure they are getting what they want from someone who wants to be in a relationship with them.

It's not like this is a finite game where someone wins/loses and the game ends. It's not like someone is going to blow the final whistle on this at the end of 90 mins and everyone goes home back to normality.

It's an infinite game where what each party is trying to do is provide the opportunity to create an environment where the people they represent are able to stay in the 'game' and deliver their vision for the long term.

When I think of this situation in this way, you do realise that none of this ends on 31/12/2020 for either side and that there is likely to be future opportunity to explore our relationship not just with the EU but the rest of the world.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:43 am

A bit of light entertainment telling the tale of how the turkeys realised they had just voted for Christmas

Part 1
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1277 ... 86240.html

Part 2
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280 ... 72033.html

Part 3
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1281 ... 56448.html
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JohnMcGreal
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:07 am

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:04 pm
I voted for brexit, but i didn't vote for this brexit, if the government want a no deal, then it's only right they go back to the public to get approval.
There are probably millions of people who feel that way. The type of Brexit we are now facing is a million miles away from the glorious vision that was sold to the public in 2016. It's the biggest mis-selling scandal in modern political times.

As for asking for the public's consent for this catastrophe, there will be no chance of that. There was never any chance of it. In any case, it's too late now. If the leave campaigns had offered this stinking turd to the electorate, they would have been sent packing. Which is why they had to lie through their teeth in order to drag it over the line.

The lies and delusions are now catching up with these political arsonists, and unfortunately we'll all be paying the price.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:05 am

Govt have released the latest of their on-going 'Get Ready for Brexit' plans

Image
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Tall Paul
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Tall Paul » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:12 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:43 am
A bit of light entertainment telling the tale of how the turkeys realised they had just voted for Christmas

Part 1
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1277 ... 86240.html

Part 2
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280 ... 72033.html

Part 3
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1281 ... 56448.html
Saw the first part of this a week or two ago. Glad to read the updates.

Surely it can't be for real? The again, I thought Ringo couldn't possibly be a real person for ages until I heard him speak on the radio.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:26 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:12 am
Saw the first part of this a week or two ago. Glad to read the updates.

Surely it can't be for real? The again, I thought Ringo couldn't possibly be a real person for ages until I heard him speak on the radio.
Yep Id read the first couple of days when posted but bookmarked it cos thought it might continue. He reckons the people, events and story is all true however he exaggerated some of the incidents and comments for comedic effect

Even if its made up its a fun read and im sure they will be lots of elements of it that is true for many of the extreme UKIP type Brexiteers as their chickens come home to roost

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:27 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:43 am
A bit of light entertainment telling the tale of how the turkeys realised they had just voted for Christmas

Part 1
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1277 ... 86240.html

Part 2
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280 ... 72033.html

Part 3
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1281 ... 56448.html
I have a neighbour who intended to retire to Spain, who while not being in this position (which is surely a parody) has seen his plans go up in smoke because of Brexit. I haven't spoken with him about it recently (not going to bring up the topic while I'm dropping off his food shop), but our last conversations centred around health insurance due to Brexit, and he was quite certain there would be a deal that would allow him to charge anything to the NHS.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:30 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:07 am
There are probably millions of people who feel that way. The type of Brexit we are now facing is a million miles away from the glorious vision that was sold to the public in 2016. It's the biggest mis-selling scandal in modern political times.

As for asking for the public's consent for this catastrophe, there will be no chance of that. There was never any chance of it. In any case, it's too late now. If the leave campaigns had offered this stinking turd to the electorate, they would have been sent packing. Which is why they had to lie through their teeth in order to drag it over the line.

The lies and delusions are now catching up with these political arsonists, and unfortunately we'll all be paying the price.
A classic con. Get them to buy in, and then tell them that for it to succeed they have to invest even more.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by aggi » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:38 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:07 am

The lies and delusions are now catching up with these political arsonists, and unfortunately we'll all be paying the price.
They're not really though. People are still buying the "Australia" deal actually being a deal, any economic impact will be blamed on Covid and then the spike in property transactions at the end of March will be touted as an indicator that Brexit is working.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:01 am

Letter from Liz Truss to Gove and Sunak. It’s all going to rat ****.
https://www.businessinsider.com/liz-tru ... ?r=US&IR=T

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by aggi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:12 pm

Mr Gove said: "With or without further agreement with the EU, this £705m will ensure that the necessary infrastructure, tech and border personnel are in place so that our traders and the border industry are able to manage the changes and seize the opportunities as we lay the foundations for the world's most effective and secure border.

You thought they might have learnt about promising these world beating systems.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:24 pm

I thought DSR was gonna stick on a high vis jacket, go down to Dover and sort it all out himself. £705m just sounds like project fear to me

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by dsr » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:46 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:24 pm
I thought DSR was gonna stick on a high vis jacket, go down to Dover and sort it all out himself. £705m just sounds like project fear to me
No, my position has always been that the situation will be sorted out one way or another but it might mean cutting corners for a little while. As opposed to the anti-EU position posited by many on here who reckoned that corners would not be cut and that the government would rather see people starve to death than to change any systems. That was the real "project fear".

I think it's a little unreasonable to criticise the government for spending money to stop people from starving and to ensure the supply of essential drugs. Hypocritical, in fact. And ridiculous. not to say stupid. I suppose it all comes under the anti-Brexit view of "the government has done something, therefore I am opposed".

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by martin_p » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:54 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:46 pm
No, my position has always been that the situation will be sorted out one way or another but it might mean cutting corners for a little while. As opposed to the anti-EU position posited by many on here who reckoned that corners would not be cut and that the government would rather see people starve to death than to change any systems. That was the real "project fear".

I think it's a little unreasonable to criticise the government for spending money to stop people from starving and to ensure the supply of essential drugs. Hypocritical, in fact. And ridiculous. not to say stupid. I suppose it all comes under the anti-Brexit view of "the government has done something, therefore I am opposed".
Just for clarity, who has ever said people will ‘starve to death’ and when?

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by dsr » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:59 pm

martin_p wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:54 pm
Just for clarity, who has ever said people will ‘starve to death’ and when?
I think those posts were on the deleted Brexit thread. But it was oft repeated that there would be food shortages and medicine shortages.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by martin_p » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:05 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:59 pm
I think those posts were on the deleted Brexit thread. But it was oft repeated that there would be food shortages and medicine shortages.
So again, just for clarity, no one said people would ‘starve to death’.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by dsr » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:10 pm

I was responding to Devil's Advocate. If you have anything relevant to say about our conversation, then say it. But if all you want to do is butt in to say "listen to me, I have nothing to say, but I will interrupt anyway to make you think I'm clever", then don't. It's rude.

And in this case it isn't very clever either. Devil's Advocate does not believe that anyone, let alone me, posted a suggestion that I would go down to Dover in a high vis coat. It's a figure of speech called hyperbole. And in a similar vein, I responded with a phrase about starving to death - that was also hyperbole.

next time, just have a think about what you are doing, and if all you are doing is saying "look at me, I'm a clever dick" then don't do it. OK?
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by dsr » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:11 pm

martin_p wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:05 pm
So again, just for clarity, no one said people would ‘starve to death’.
But if it gives you a happy feeling, then yes, I will confirm that no-one said "starve to death". Once again you have made a contribution that you can feel pleased with.
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by martin_p » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:14 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:11 pm
But if it gives you a happy feeling, then yes, I will confirm that no-one said "starve to death". Once again you have made a contribution that you can feel pleased with.
I’ll continue to call out made up rubbish as long as you continue to speak it.

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:14 pm

"‘No-deal’ Brexit could cause shortages of food, drugs, fresh water, secret U.K. government memos warn"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/no-de ... 2019-08-18

"If a no-deal Brexit will cause water shortages and the return of the black market, panic is a rational response"

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/br ... 02101.html

"No-deal Brexit could lead to clean drinking water shortage"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 99491.html

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Damo » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:16 pm

We are leaving with no deal lads.
Try and spin the good and bad out of that how you see fit but that's the default and what we all voted for
Our government have accepted that. Its time the eu and remainers did

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by dsr » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:18 pm

martin_p wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:14 pm
I’ll continue to call out made up rubbish as long as you continue to speak it.
I've got my own stalker. :roll:
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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:19 pm

"No-deal Brexit 'to leave shelves empty' warn retailers

Sainsbury's, Asda and McDonald's are among those warning stockpiling fresh food is impossible and that the UK is very reliant on the EU for produce."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-47028748

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Re: It's not just about Brexit

Post by Damo » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:20 pm

can understand the bedwetters on here and Michelle Barnier still flogging the dead remain horse but the stable door is wide open and there's no horse sh*t to be cleaned by the stable boy

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