How about a small increase in capacity at Turf Moor....

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Tue May 02, 2017 12:33 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:It may take 18 months but would it be possible to replace BL and CFS with a single tiered stand that reached all the way around both? We could have state if the art facilities for disabled fans and they would have the choice view from behind the goal or side on.

Ensure there are significant corporate facilities in there o ensure the ROI is maximized from a business point of view.

Get away fans in the corner, pull them out from behind the goals and give us 2/3 of the CFS.

Build new dressing rooms for the teams and enable them to come out from the stand that replaces the Bob Lord.

This would fulfill a lot of things we need and would also like to have without creating a 30,000 seater white elephant. I don't think the capacity increase would be more than 2 or 3 thousand.

Yeah do that!

Best suggestion yet. I really like these ideas! It sorts all the main issues out and gives us a capacity of around 25,000. Perfect for a club of our size.

Claret_Jules · Post by **Claret_Jules** » Tue May 02, 2017 1:20 pm

Acting Claret wrote:I'd like the tv cameras to go back to the bl to show our two tier stand.

Been saying that for a while. TV is our shop window, we should show the Turf off in its best light.

bfcwest · Post by **bfcwest** » Tue May 02, 2017 1:43 pm

Of course we need to increase capacity. There are too many games when there are no seats left, or definitely no decent seats left. So attracting a family of walk-ons who fancy 'trying Burnley out' becomes problematic. As a result we are missing out on potential new fans for the future.

I brought another family who were showing interest in following Burnley to a game. The only seats were low down in the corner behind the goal in the Jimmy Mac. View was awful, got wet too. They don't seem too keen on coming again.

We need a bigger Bob Lord with no pillars. Fans want to sit side on more than at the ends. We ALWAYS sell out of the best seats. If we had an extra 5000 premium seats then the average attendance this season would have been much higher, so all of you who say we don't need more seats because we don't sell out every week now are just missing the point. You don't know how many fans could have potentially come to the games when we sell out, or how many would have come if we had more decent seats. We need new supporters to be able to 'get into the habit' of coming to see Burnley, but at the moment this is just not possible.

Let's take advantage of being in the Premier league in order to reset the clock in terms of our fan base. Reach out beyond Lancashire for the next generation of Burnley fan. Let's think big and develop rather than just trying to be 'little old Burnley'.

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:12 pm

Spot on bfcwest.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue May 02, 2017 5:25 pm

[quote="ClaretTony

I've not read the entire thread but I agree with those who suggest there is no need for an increased capacity. As for filling in the corners, I don't think it would work in any of the four corners given the positioning of the four stands.[/quote]

I don't get this way of thinking

Fact we have had up to 19400 in the home ends in the Premier League

Fact we know that approximately 7 premier League teams in a season can sell a 4000 away capacity.

So that's 23400

It is very likely that if a further 2000 good seats were available especially with seats together not just singles and restricted that a combination of local people, premier league tourist and some plastic away fans would sell most of these .

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue May 02, 2017 5:39 pm

[quote="ClaretTony"]Doesn't work like that - disabled facilities have to be provided in different areas of the ground, not just in one stand, so that idea wouldn't work. The club are working towards August 2018 in providing the necessary disabled facilities. They will be extensive.

If you need disabled provisions in each stand then as you build a stand you put disabled access in it.
Surely better to have one stand with amazing disabled facilities and the rest to sort than having all four sides equally poor

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Tue May 02, 2017 5:46 pm

bfcwest wrote:Of course we need to increase capacity. There are too many games when there are no seats left, or definitely no decent seats left. So attracting a family of walk-ons who fancy 'trying Burnley out' becomes problematic. As a result we are missing out on potential new fans for the future.

I brought another family who were showing interest in following Burnley to a game. The only seats were low down in the corner behind the goal in the Jimmy Mac. View was awful, got wet too. They don't seem too keen on coming again.

We need a bigger Bob Lord with no pillars. Fans want to sit side on more than at the ends. We ALWAYS sell out of the best seats. If we had an extra 5000 premium seats then the average attendance this season would have been much higher, so all of you who say we don't need more seats because we don't sell out every week now are just missing the point. You don't know how many fans could have potentially come to the games when we sell out, or how many would have come if we had more decent seats. We need new supporters to be able to 'get into the habit' of coming to see Burnley, but at the moment this is just not possible.

Let's take advantage of being in the Premier league in order to reset the clock in terms of our fan base. Reach out beyond Lancashire for the next generation of Burnley fan. Let's think big and develop rather than just trying to be 'little old Burnley'.

My thoughts exactly, more good seats with unrestricted views.

NickBFC · Post by **NickBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:24 pm

I would personally like to see us build a slightly bigger version of the newest stand at Deepdale to replace the BL. It would importantly offer further corporate facilities which make the club a lot more money than thousands of extra seats although a slight increase in capacity back to 22-23,000 would be sensible.. A slightly sloping roof would help with atmosphere too.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:38 pm

Stealing ClaretForever's thunder but this is the kind of stand we should be looking at building, obviously a smaller version but it has plenty of corporate seats they just aren't behind shiny glass, we are going to have to bite the bullet at some stage regarding ground redevelopment or it will creep up on us when we have no money further down the line.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/club/sta ... _stand.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:47 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:

As I've posted, it doesn't work like. Yes, disabled facilities should be incorporated in stands when they are built but we, like many other clubs, have four stands with no adequate facilities. It is not better to have one stand with amazing facilities because that doesn't fit the legislation and Premier League requirements. We get the choice, as able bodied supporters, to choose which stand we go in. The disabled are entitled to the same options and that has to be done.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Tue May 02, 2017 7:13 pm

Corky wrote:Just a thought. Has anyone asked the Club (Chairman or Directors) what their views are or indeed if there are any long term plans to redevelop. Consultation with fans groups?

That last time a question like this was put to the board in public was at a fans forum last year, the question was about redevelopment and the guarded and fairly prickly response started talking about capacity and that it was not needed.

The facts are we have thousands of substandard seats whether they be restricted views due to supporting pillars in the BLS and CFS or below pitch level as is the case to a large extent in the JHL and to a lesser extent in the JML, these seats are always the last to be sold for a very good reason in big games.

We can sit on our hands forever and say we can't get value for money out of any new facilities but could future proof our ground for the next generation and maybe the one after by doing a proper job not the admirable but ultimately failed attempt in the mid 1990's. We may not get another chance in any of our lifetimes to bring Turf Moor fully into the 21st Century, any increase in capacity should be small maybe bringing things back to the 1980's/90's levels of around 22,500-23,000.

If your kitchen/bathroom is looking a bit **** at home do you leave it alone because any change won't add enough value to your home? No you improve it as it needs doing and when you have spare cash you sort it.

In my opinion plans should be put in place based on one more season in the Premier League, two and so on, the longer we stay up the more work we can do and that should be the plan, Phase 1,2,3 etc, if we go down the redevelopments are put on hold.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:33 pm

Id start with CFS first.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:37 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Id rather us knock down the BL and rebuild a new stand, I would say that, I sat behind a pillar for years on end.

Unlike the people behind you, who just sat behind a pillock.

Classy posting of personal abuse.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:38 pm

KRBFC wrote:Id rather us knock down the BL and rebuild a new stand, I would say that, I sat behind a pillar for years on end.

Unlike the people sat behind you, who were just sat behind a pillock.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 9:04 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Unlike the people sat behind you, who were just sat behind a pillock.

I take it your missus isn't putting out tonight?

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Tue May 02, 2017 9:15 pm

This board would go into meltdown next season if a significant chunk of the PL money was put aside for ground redevelopment and reduced the money available to Dyche for reinforcements.

Work is undoubtedly needed but we have to find a balance and try as best we can to time it right. The second season in the Premier League is as tricky as the first, so for now we need to try to consolidate our place at the top table and the financial rewards that brings.

New stands would be a great legacy but they'll struggle to pay for themselves if they come at the cost of relegation. Better to take stock, consider the long term options for the ground and include consultation with the fans at the appropriate time.

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Tue May 02, 2017 9:46 pm

I agree with DCWat that we need to find the right balance and time it right. This is why in the original post I said "if we become an established Premier League club." However, if we retain our current league position, we will receive around £110 million, if we survive next year that's another £110 million. The wage bill according to Sportek is £33 million and the club accounts showed a loss of £3.7 million, this leaves £73.3 million to spend in year one alone. Whether it's spent on players or ground improvements is down to better minds than mine, but surely some could be spent on the BL or CFS.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue May 02, 2017 9:51 pm

How about TonbridgeClaret never visits Turf Moor again, then their would be a small increase in capacity, by one seat.

Ahahahahahahahahahahhaha, this beats watching Horizon about schizophrenia!

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Tue May 02, 2017 10:07 pm

That's a shame Pstotto, I was looking forward to buying you a drink after post 49 by your good self.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:13 am

I'm only pulling yer leg, Tonbridge!

. I bored, I'm just being daft. Where does serious ever get me?

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Wed May 03, 2017 3:30 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Id start with CFS first.

I'd start with the Jimmy Mac
Utc

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed May 03, 2017 4:01 pm

One could get rid of the boxes of the Jimmy Mac and have a genuine upper and lower tier with the lower tier going all the way back to the back of the stand. if they did this, it would dramatically reduce the gradient of the seats, though, so maybe the CFS stand demolished and a two tier system alond the lines of Highbury. if they did that, they wouldn't need to encroach on to Burnley Cricket Club land and in fact the upper tiers could overhang to an extent without affecting the boundary of the cricket pitch.

It's all about architectural solutions and ingenuity and quality of design. The best quality design would also be the most economic design, rather like the Jeep or a mini.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Wed May 03, 2017 5:34 pm

We could have a grass hill. Bit like Henmans hill. Instal slides at the back to ease congestion caused by the older generation. Also early leavers will have a separate slide. Covered im sandpaper. We could offer picnac hampers ln the concourse. Even pims. Ice cream sundaes. Beer coolers. Portable bbqs.

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Wed May 03, 2017 5:56 pm

i think we should replace the BL and CFS. two identical stands, joined up at the corner and joined up to the 'longside' too. work completed over two seasons [ie BL replaced one year and CFS the following year] and could be dependant on us staying in this league after next season. it might go some way to convincing people that we are actually a Premier League club. it would certainly improve our profile as a club and make people outside Burnley take us a little more seriously, perhaps? although, ground improvements might be a hard sell to the board if we only secure our prem status this time by the odd point and finish just one place above the relegation spots.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed May 03, 2017 6:16 pm

Dyched, it's already been done. That's what the Longside and Beehole end was before they concreted it over, it was just a big spoil heap made from local cinders.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed May 03, 2017 6:18 pm

Do we want to be investing big money on new stands when safe standing may be round the corner?

* I don't know if it is around the corner

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Wed May 03, 2017 8:13 pm

We have absolutely done the right thing in channeling our money towards the playing side.

I wonder if PNE would do things differently, if they could.

But let's not kid ourselves, the CFS, and to a lesser extent the BL, are looking tatty. There's only so many times you can give 50 year old stands a lick of paint.

We're a progressive club, and the ground needs to reflect that. We're projected all around the world, and the Turf needs to be brought into the 21st century.

It doesn't need to be grand, or ridiculously expensive. The current dimensions are fine and the location is perfect.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:29 pm

I always prefer stadiums that are bowl shaped, the new Tottenham stadium looks really good on the mock ups.

I think a 23,000 bowl type stadium (like a small old Trafford) would be really good. Can't see the point having open corner stands, let's too much wind in.

Agree that bob lord and cricket field need redeveloping but only when it is sustainable to do so. Would need us to become an established prem team first!

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:44 pm

Build it and they shall come. Few thousand increase to grow our fan base.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:49 pm

Pstotto wrote: so maybe the CFS stand demolished and a two tier system alond the lines of Highbury. if they did that, they wouldn't need to encroach on to Burnley Cricket Club land and in fact the upper tiers could overhang to an extent without affecting the boundary of the cricket pitch.

The land we would be overhanging belongs to the Cricket Club, so at best we'd pay rent for overhanging, and at worst they'd say no.

Also, I don't want anymore two tiered monstrosities at Turf Moor. The concourses are too small, and the atmosphere in them is crap.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:50 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:I always prefer stadiums that are bowl shaped, the new Tottenham stadium looks really good on the mock ups.

I think a 23,000 bowl type stadium (like a small old Trafford) would be really good. Can't see the point having open corner stands, let's too much wind in.

Agree that bob lord and cricket field need redeveloping but only when it is sustainable to do so. Would need us to become an established prem team first!

Bow,s are so 1990's at the end of the market we'd be shopping at. They look crap, and the wind actually allows the grass to grow stronger.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:54 pm

The leicester tigers stand is a fantastc looking piece of architecture....i like it alot.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:56 pm

Whether we like it or not, our stands are aging and in need of an upgrade. We got a good deal in the 90's with the newer ones, and although with hindsight they weren't the best, we just need to clean and touch up the concourses, and the cladding/metalwork. I won't mention the crumbling brickwork.

The BL and CFS are 45-50 years old now, and as much as we'd all like to return to the good old days when these stands were the envy of many, times move on. We are now in the fortunate position where we can do something about them, so we MUST whilst we have the ability. No to two tiers. No to exec boxes everywhere (maybe the BL), just simple, single tiered stands with excellent 21st century facilities.

I would also keep an eye on the safe standing thing too, as the CFS end would be ideal, and give people the option. I wish clubs would be far more vocal about this.

Anyway, I'd suggest no more than 25,000 capacity, which it was back in the 1980's when it came down from the 41,000 in the 1970's. If we have any ambition we need to cater for the 6-7 big games per season, whilst also being conscious of not going too big and it looking daft. I'm convinced we should be able to regularly attract 20,000 home fans whilst in the Premier League. We average around 1,900 away fans, but that would be 3,000 if we gave them 4,000 tickets. Let's look forwards and not backwards.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed May 03, 2017 10:03 pm

tim_noone wrote:The leicester tigers stand is a fantastc looking piece of architecture....i like it alot.

I have a meeting there next week. The stand from which the image above was taken is real old school. Wooden benches (not individual seats), with an enclosure in front, and a small, concrete walk under to get out at the sides.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Wed May 03, 2017 10:05 pm

'Let's look forward, not backwards'

Agree, but this is Burnley. We hark back to the 'glory' years of the 80's, and to some, we should just be grateful for having a football club. I've never known a set of fans that look back as much as we do.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Wed May 03, 2017 10:10 pm

I've been as guilty before, but come to realise that those days will not be returning. Bob Lord built those stands by forward thinking, removing the old stand and terrace which had stood for over half a century. We're in the same positions now as then, only we have the funds now without having to sell players.

I'd imagine some fans were unhappy back then too.

lakesclaret · Post by **lakesclaret** » Wed May 03, 2017 10:25 pm

The BL really needs razing to the ground it's preposterous to have such space with so few seats.Though I believe a JH style stand is a long winded process both structurally and legally .

Another 3-5k would be useful.If were building a long term
project though we should be looking at anything upto 28-30k capacity . Maximise away end for bigger clubs etc

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Wed May 03, 2017 10:25 pm

Claretforever wrote:Also, I don't want anymore two tiered monstrosities at Turf Moor. The concourses are too small, and the atmosphere in them is crap.

100% on the button.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Wed May 03, 2017 10:26 pm

Claretforever wrote:Bow,s are so 1990's at the end of the market we'd be shopping at. They look crap, and the wind actually allows the grass to grow stronger.

If done correctly they look good enough for me, most national stadiums are bowl shapes in design esp ones for the olympics etc.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Thu May 04, 2017 1:15 am

Vince Fontaine wrote:I'd start with the Jimmy Mac
Utc

Why?

snapcrackleandpop · Post by **snapcrackleandpop** » Thu May 04, 2017 12:27 pm

Serious question, If were to redevelop the BL & CF and do the BL first where would we put the 3,000 people who sit in there until the work is complete, I don't think it would be as much of an issue with the smaller numbers in the CFS.

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Thu May 04, 2017 2:27 pm

snapcrackleandpop wrote:Serious question, If were to redevelop the BL & CF and do the BL first where would we put the 3,000 people who sit in there until the work is complete, I don't think it would be as much of an issue with the smaller numbers in the CFS.

That's actually a very good point. Maybe complete the work on CFS first (including increasing it's capacity), making enough room for the BL supporters while their stand is redeveloped . Away fans could temporarily be housed in blocks 1&2 of JHL while CFS work is done.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Thu May 04, 2017 2:50 pm

snapcrackleandpop wrote:Serious question, If were to redevelop the BL & CF and do the BL first where would we put the 3,000 people who sit in there until the work is complete, I don't think it would be as much of an issue with the smaller numbers in the CFS.

Bob lord doesn't need knocking down, just extending further back by about 15 rows and a new roof.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu May 04, 2017 2:50 pm

It seems apparent by this thread the people who sit in the stands don't want them upgrading, it's the people who look at them.

Bowl shaped grounds take the stands to far away from the pitch.

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Thu May 04, 2017 3:36 pm

Whatever gets built, I'd like the club to install new wooden seats. They're more spacious, last longer than plastic ones, better for the environment and, more importantly, are less likely to aggravate the chalfonts in cold weather.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Thu May 04, 2017 3:51 pm

claretandy wrote:Bob lord doesn't need knocking down, just extending further back by about 15 rows and a new roof.

I like this idea!!

Maybe a couple of rows between what is the back row now and the "new" rows for disabled supporters. New roof and sides. Light up the Burnley Football Club sign too. Build the other side up like the new shop. Put the changing rooms in there and tunnel between the BL and CFS.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu May 04, 2017 4:15 pm

Firstly - there's absolutely no way that we'd look to redevlop two perfectly fine fit-for-purpose stands (JM & JH) when we have two stands that clearly aren't, by modern standards, fit-for-purpose. The CFS and BL stands would be the first to be replaced and I guess this could be done with a single-tiered stand wrapping around the corner that would give an increased capacity due to the number of additional 'modern' seats that could fit in the same area as the gigantic ancient wooden seas.

Secondly - I'm not sure why people can't get their head around the possibility of the JM and JH stands being joined in the corner. This is perfectly feasible, however as the stands aren't ideally aligned it would lead to one stand, I imagine the JM, being extended around the corner and butting up to the JH stand. This would look neater and add a few thousand onto the capacity but in reality probably isn't worth the money other than for vanity.

Like others though, I agree that an increase in capacity would be a good by-product of general stadium upgrades rather than a purpose venture.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Thu May 04, 2017 4:20 pm

lucs86 wrote:What for? What impact would it have? I thought there was a benefit for the pitch in having open corners, might not matter with expensive pitch like ours is now though.

Old hat that argument and given our weather. I think we should get a roof on as well like the Millenium stadium and Wimbledon. We could host pop concerts and hire it out to Blackburn for when the Venkys sell Deadwood for development. Hehe.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Thu May 04, 2017 5:14 pm

I must admit I like what Preston have done to Deepdale. The stands feel close to the pitch and the corners are closed off rather than filled in. It works better than our two tier stands in my opinion. We don't really need to increase capacity but the ground certainly needs an updgrade. I'm with the idea of having a single tier covering the BL and CF stands including a filled in corner.

BillyIngham'sShorts · Post by **BillyIngham'sShorts** » Thu May 04, 2017 5:40 pm

surely we have to increase size of BLS. You could take it back or add a tier and add 6/7 rows at front and move pitch across towards . Probably bring it to 5500. But keep look and feel of old stand. We need to keep the Turf's identity.

CFS is fine - good views and atmosphere - maybe extend it to side where it meets with JHL - add say 1000 - so we would then have half stand for clarets supporters.

That's all you need in short term. Takes capacity to nearly 25k. Job done.