How about a small increase in capacity at Turf Moor....

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Mon May 01, 2017 1:13 pm

if we manage to become an established Premier League team over the next couple of years?

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon May 01, 2017 1:15 pm

Don't need to. But if we were to develeop parts of the stadium and as a consequence of that it resulted in a relatively small increase in capacity that'd be ok.

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Mon May 01, 2017 1:19 pm

I agree taio. Simple measures like filling in a couple of the corners would add a couple of thousand.

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Mon May 01, 2017 1:20 pm

The current capacity is plenty enough for a town of our size and the ground may lose some of its character. Also, should we go back down and return to crowds of 11,000 or if we stay up and crowds reduce which isn't inconceivable then it becomes an absolute nightmare if the ground is only 1/3rd full.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon May 01, 2017 1:22 pm

Which corners would we fill in though? The JH and the Jimmy Mac aren't properly aligned for a kick off...

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon May 01, 2017 2:49 pm

Id rather us knock down the BL and rebuild a new stand, I would say that, I sat behind a pillar for years on end.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon May 01, 2017 2:52 pm

Where are these extra 2,000 fans going to come from?

We need to be selling out every game for this to be justified.

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Mon May 01, 2017 2:54 pm

There's the odd game where we sell out. Hard to judge what the extra demand is though.

Until we're selling out significantly more games I think the capacity is fine as it is.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon May 01, 2017 2:57 pm

If we're getting a full house every home game, then the club may consider upping the prices first.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Mon May 01, 2017 3:04 pm

what_no_pies wrote:The current capacity is plenty enough for a town of our size and the ground may lose some of its character. Also, should we go back down and return to crowds of 11,000 or if we stay up and crowds reduce which isn't inconceivable then it becomes an absolute nightmare if the ground is only 1/3rd full.

Very positive

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon May 01, 2017 3:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Where are these extra 2,000 fans going to come from?

We need to be selling out every game for this to be justified.

Blackburn

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon May 01, 2017 3:07 pm

joey13 wrote:Very positive

But it was a completely fair point he was making and the sort of thing the club would consider to determine if there's a valid business case for expansion which there isn't really unless it's a by-product of a stand development

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Mon May 01, 2017 3:08 pm

I would leave well alone but a current high level member of the playing management team wants the corners filled in

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm

I do think that the pitiful state of our Disabled Provision will force our hand in going ahead with re-developing one of the two older stands(probably the CFS). I can't see any other way of us managing to significantly improve this neglected side of our Social Responsibility within the current infrastructure of the stadium. A new, purpose built stand, in place of the current CFS could be designed, with state of the art facilities for the disabled, a little extra capacity(not too much), a concourse that doesn't resemble a cramped, gloomy cave, and, and not least, no stanchions.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon May 01, 2017 3:15 pm

Yet another reason for the old gits in the BL to complain about something/anything/young people today!

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Mon May 01, 2017 3:55 pm

ralph wrote:I would leave well alone but a current high level member of the playing management team wants the corners filled in

What for? What impact would it have? I thought there was a benefit for the pitch in having open corners, might not matter with expensive pitch like ours is now though.

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:13 pm

lucs86 wrote: What for? What impact would it have? I thought there was a benefit for the pitch in having open corners, might not matter with expensive pitch like ours is now though.

No idea but I will ask him .. I did say I would leave well alone

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:17 pm

Unless it includes more corporate then it's not financially viable to build new stands.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:22 pm

Always been underwhelmed by the BL, after waiting for what seemed an age for it to be 'unveiled'.
Nice to see that re done.

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:26 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Unless it includes more corporate then it's not financially viable to build new stands.

Building a new stand would be financially viable. It's whether it would be the wisest use of the club's money that would be the question because there wouldn't be much return on investment, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be viable.

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:33 pm

Would it not be financially viable if we were able to give Liverpool, Everton, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle, Tottenham etc a few thousand more seats, because they would still sell out?

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:39 pm

Building a corner stand with elevated seating for disabled supporters with a roof would be a start.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Let's say £50m for the new stand for 7500 seats.

£400 average for ST. 7500x400= 3m per year.

So 17 seasons at full sell outs to pay off before we start making profit.

Rightfoot · Post by **Rightfoot** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:48 pm

If we stay in the Premier league for 3 - 4 seasons and at the price we charge we will need to extra room as the demand will be there

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:51 pm

A small increase would be perfect to around 28k

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:54 pm

Leave the ground as it is.

Acting Claret · Post by **Acting Claret** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:59 pm

I'd like the tv cameras to go back to the bl to show our two tier stand.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:01 pm

Problem is, unless a new stand can be built close season then you have a reduced capacity for a period of time.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:06 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Let's say £50m for the new stand for 7500 seats.

£400 average for ST. 7500x400= 3m per year.

So 17 seasons at full sell outs to pay off before we start making profit.

A single tiered stand to replace the CFS, allowing for a marginal increase in capacity and much improved disabled facilities is sensible and progressive.

And it wouldn't cost anywhere near £50M for a start. Where on earth do you get that figure from? There are many examples of new stands/stadiums that are very basic in design and construction, and therefore relatively cheap to build.

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:08 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Let's say £50m for the new stand for 7500 seats.

£400 average for ST. 7500x400= 3m per year.

So 17 seasons at full sell outs to pay off before we start making profit.

That's return on investment and doesn't demonstrate it wouldn't be financial viable. £50m for one stand is way over the top for what we'd need.

St Mary's stadium cost £32m which is probably £50m at today's prices taking account of inflation.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:12 pm

I'd rather we sort the disabled areas out first and then split the CF stand horizontally, Clarets at the front behind the goal all the way along, visiting fans at the back and in a corner when not many turn up.

Jamesy · Post by **Jamesy** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:14 pm

Rightfoot wrote:If we stay in the Premier league for 3 - 4 seasons and at the price we charge we will need to extra room as the demand will be there

Personally, I don't think the demand will be there from a town the size of Burnley and taking into account the surrounding area.
I doubt that we could sell over 15,000 season tickets even if we were an established Premier League club, even with the monthly direct debit incentives.
We wouldn't sell out the home allocation against the likes of West Brom, Stoke, Brighton, Hull et.al. Also if we gave a larger allocation to away teams we would possibly only fill away section for 50% of the games.
If we do however redevelop the Cricket Field Stand in near future I would like to see a stand similar to the one Wolves recently constructed behind the goal with a provision to join it to any new stand which may replace the Bob Lord many years down the line. But to reiterate, I don't think any extra capacity is required now, or at any time in the foreseeable future.

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:14 pm

Several extra rows could be added to the back of the BLS without too much disruption.
Certainly feasible for the structure to be completed in the closed season.
The location and diversion of underground services could be problematic though.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:18 pm

gawthorpe_view wrote:Several extra rows could be added to the back of the BLS without too much disruption.
Certainly feasible for the structure to be completed in the closed season.
The location and diversion of underground services could be problematic though.

Does the Northern Line come this far North?
I thought it terminated at Stanmore?

Jamesy · Post by **Jamesy** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:20 pm

Acting Claret wrote:I'd like the tv cameras to go back to the bl to show our two tier stand.

Good point but where would the TV cameras go? Look at Palace where they have the gantry underneath the roof. It is like watching the game through a letterbox if you are further than half way back in the stand.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:21 pm

It would be fantastic if we became established in this division but the fickleness of fans would mean attendances from home fans would drop unless we did a Leicester which is most unlikely. Yearly fights to get to 40 points would get a sizeable few supporters to stay away, IMO.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:21 pm

taio wrote:That's return on investment and doesn't demonstrate it wouldn't be financial viable. £50m for one stand is way over the top for what we'd need.

St Mary's stadium cost £32m which is probably £50m at today's prices taking account of inflation.

Ok lets use original figures of 50m
Still wrong because if new stand is 7500 we need to deduct original capacity say 3500 leaves 4000 extra seats at £400 = 1600000
Thats about 30 year payback not the original 15 or so.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:29 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Where are these extra 2,000 fans going to come from?

We need to be selling out every game for this to be justified.

Where did west hams 20,000 come from where will spurs get the 20,000 extra from.wheres the 16,000 gates of chelsea gone?

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:29 pm

There were plenty of holes in the figures. But my main point is that it was more of a ROI issue rather than it not being financially viable.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:34 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Unless it includes more corporate then it's not financially viable to build new stands.

How would you know all the financial facts.....?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:36 pm

gawthorpe_view wrote:Several extra rows could be added to the back of the BLS without too much disruption.
Certainly feasible for the structure to be completed in the closed season.
The location and diversion of underground services could be problematic though.

Leave the BLS alone! The view. to the Pennines, from Longside Upper is fabulous!

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:26 pm

taio wrote:There were plenty of holes in the figures. But my main point is that it was more of a ROI issue rather than it not being financially viable.

If you dont fill the seats there won't be a ROI or be financially viable. Just a great big white elephant

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:30 pm

tim_noone wrote:Where did west hams 20,000 come from where will spurs get the 20,000 extra from.wheres the 16,000 gates of chelsea gone?

London - population 7 million.

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:32 pm

dpinsussex wrote:If you dont fill the seats there won't be a ROI or be financially viable. Just a great big white elephant

The ROI can be poor yet financially viable particularly in the context of capital expenditure and our financial position. As I said at the start I'm not advocating ground expansion. But at some point aspects of the stadium will need some upgrading so it's whether you kick the can down the road or look at opportunities to further improve our infrastructure while we have the money.

Man of Kent · Post by **Man of Kent** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:34 pm

Whatever stand is built, it should be close to the pitch and steep. The noise and atmosphere that was generated at Crystal Palace on Saturday (on what was a relatively quiet day for them thanks to our dominance) seemed to be generated mostly from the Holmesdale Road stand behind the goal which is tall and 'thin' with everyone sitting nearly on top of each other and almost leaning over the pitch. They only attract a few more fans than us but they're a noisy and boisterous bunch and that stand has, I'm sure, a lot to do with it.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:35 pm

taio wrote:The ROI can be poor yet financially viable particularly in the context of capital expenditure and our financial position. As I said at the start I'm not advocating ground expansion. But at some point aspects of the stadium will need some upgrading so it's whether you kick the can down the road or look at opportunities to further improve our infrastructure while we have the money.

If you dont fill the seats and there is no evidence to say we will (acknowledge your comments re not wanting expansion) get any ROI never mind poor

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:37 pm

Lets fill the corners with a mural to make everyone think we have loads more fans. Massive speaker behind them signing too

Be a lot cheaper than a new stand lol

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:38 pm

dpinsussex wrote:If you dont fill the seats and there is no evidence to say we will (acknowledge your comments re not wanting expansion) get any ROI never mind poor

That's what I've said.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:40 pm

The JH and JM stand do not have to match up it they were to extend the JM around the corner. They would simply be a join on different levels like at Chelsea, with no thoroughfare between the two stands.

Similarly if they extended the CFS, BL or JH stand around the corners.

They need to provide for disabled folk, so they could do one corner especially for them, so others are not in their way. If they fill all four corners in like that, with separate entrances and exits then there would be minimal incursion to what is already built and the increase in capacity would be about 3000 at a guess, bring us up to a near 26000 capacity.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:47 pm

martin_p wrote:London - population 7 million.

So 20,000 decided you know what im gonna support west ham next season... right.