France votes pro-EU

[Manceau]

Scared to death of change.

The EU is dated, and on its way out. We started it, the others will follow. France will be left til last.

I'm not personally a massive fan of Macron, I share the misgivings about his Rothschild banking background, his inclinations towards neoliberalism. I am though delighted he beat Le Pen.

But to say they are scared to death of change is demonstrably not true - they have just elected a President who heads a party that was formed on the 6th April last year. They have no history, no baggage, it's literally a brand new political organisation.

It represents a huge change in French politics.

[Stayingup]

Do you see the irony in what you have posted? Or are you really that thick?

When you grow uo and start wearing long pants and learn something about European history you will know what I mean. You are completely deluded about this corrupt unaccountable EU. And dont intimate I am thick. I run a fair size business and trade with many countries.
I am very understanding and in tune with many foreign cultures and reigions and have visited and lived in many countries and know a corrupt greedy and ruthless non -caring communist organization when I encouter one. What do you do and what cultures do you know?

[Stayingup]

Do you see the irony in what you have posted? Or are you really that thick?

When you grow uo and start wearing long pants and learn something about European history you will know what I mean. You are completely deluded about this corrupt unaccountable EU. And dont intimate I am thick. I run a fair size business and trade with many countries.
I am very understanding and in tune with many foreign cultures and reigions and have visited and lived in many countries and know a corrupt greedy and ruthless non -caring communist organization when I encouter one. What do you do and what cultures do you know. Incidentally I lived and worked in France for a long time
So dont you preach to.me.

[Lancasterclaret]

"Scared to death of change" or "imagine just how **** it would be if we voted in a fascist"

[Lancasterclaret]

**** this, you are getting me down on a wonderful day for Burnley FC.

What you believe bears no resemblance to reality, and its so depressing that you think like that.

[nil_desperandum]

They have done what they have always done. Shat their pants and surrendered.
.

As I put in an earlier post. Can you give examples?. The only obvious example of a French surrender was in WW2, but most historians would argue that there was little alternative, and the French tactic of fighting on in (e.g. ) North Africa, and re-grouping under De Gaulle was the only option. (Not forgetting, of course, the incredible bravery of the French resistance in the face of Nazi atrocities.)
Their sacrifices and loss of life in WW1 were almost unbearable, and an entire generation was wiped out by the time the armistice was signed. They also put up a strong resistance in the Franco-Prussian War despite being initially overwhelmed.
They were ultimately defeated in the Napoleonic wars, but their military achievements in that period -(immediately after the Revolution) were remarkable.

[ClaretMoffitt]

http://www.strawpoll.me/12916277/r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vote vote vote lads.

[FulledgeClaret]

Why did you cut out the rest of what i said? The part that said will ordinary muslims now rise against the radicals within their communities now that the french have in your opinion shown force against fascism. Who are you trying to kid with half quotes?

That will be because quoting the whole post doesn't work in making you out to be racist.

[Imploding Turtle]

Its absolutely incredible that people can't see that its a blatant attempt by Wikileaks (run by a bloke who is so far up Putins arse, he's almost touching Marie Le Pens feet) to sabotage the democratic process.

Just how far do this lot have to go before you'll accept thats its a blatant attempt to destroy democracy in Western Europe?

The kind of people you're replying to don't care about the democratic process. They want to win at all costs, and if that's through lies or thought the intervention of a geopolitical enemy then so be it.

[Imploding Turtle]

http://www.strawpoll.me/12916277/r

Vote vote vote lads.

You can't wait till the next one, can you?

[ClaretMoffitt]

You can't wait till the next one, can you?

Couldn't give a flying ****.

[Imploding Turtle]

Blah blah ******* blah.

Like I say, let's see if France is a better, more peaceful place in 5 years to what it is now then seeing as its done all the right things in your eyes shall we? The French people have made their position clear, they have chosen globalism, they have chosen the establishment, they have chosen eastern immigration, they have chosen a neutral stance on the fight against domestic terrorism.

"A neutral stance on the fight against domestic terrorism."

[ClaretMoffitt]

Couldn't give a flying ****.

In fact sadly that's not even true. I do to be honest.

Just a shame the French don't.

[Imploding Turtle]

Couldn't give a flying ****.

The temper tantrum you've thrown throughout this thread suggests otherwise.

[Imploding Turtle]

In fact sadly that's not even true. I do to be honest.

Just a shame the French don't.

The French don't care about terrorism? That must be why Charlie Hebdo saw no increase in subscriptions or sales after they were attacked. Oh wait.

I think what you'll find is true is that unlike you the French aren't going to be petrified into electing literal fascists. You are so frightened by Islamic terrorists that you want to see people elected who would persecute all Muslims and all immigrants.

The French aren't the cowards. You are.

[ClaretMoffitt]

The French don't care about terrorism? That must be why Charlie Hebdo saw no increase in subscriptions or sales after they were attacked. Oh wait.

I think what you'll find is true is that unlike you the French aren't going to be petrified into electing literal fascists. You are so frightened by Islamic terrorists that you want to see people elected who would persecute all Muslims and all immigrants.

The French aren't the cowards. You are.

Suppose if the French buy enough magazine subscriptions this problem will solve itself. I haven't subscribed myself though, but that's because I'm really really scared. Lol

[dsr]

Turns out France isn't as stupid as we are. Good for them!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-39823865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it's your suggestion that voting for pro-EU parties in a general election means that the country as a whole is pro-EU, might I suggest you study history a bit more closely? With particular reference to UK history 2015-16?

It would seem to me pretty obvious, so obvious as to be hardly worth saying actually, that the big majority was because vast numbers of French people would vote for anyone rather than Le Pen. Not because Macron and his policies are wildly popular. But I'd be interested to hear your contrary arguments.

[Lancasterclaret]

Yup, anyone but a fascist.

And thats good, no?

[Imploding Turtle]

Suppose if the French buy enough magazine subscriptions this problem will solve itself. I haven't subscribed myself though, but that's because I'm really really scared. Lol

That's the thing, you really are scared. You used to support liberal values like freedom of religion, speech, expression etc but now you openly oppose those values by supporting politicians who think only those values should apply to certain types of people (generally speaking non-muslims and non-migrants). You've chosen to be suspicious of all Muslims and support politicians who will persecute them.

If you've not been frightened into abandoning British Values™ then i guess you were only pretending to support liberal western values in the past and have only stopped pretending because you think your political views have become more acceptible as fascists become more competitive in elections. For now I prefer to assume you're just frightened. Feel free to convince me otherwise though.

[ClaretinMyBlood]

Macron may have won, quite easily, However I find the key thing to take from this is the fact that 34.5% of the nation voted for a far right government. Those 34.5%, even though they haven't got the result they wanted will still be wanting out of the EU, tighter immigration.. etc. under a leader that will not have an interest in their interests.
There's a growing number supporting the far right across Europe at the minute, the fact that they are contesting power in many countries speaks for itself, it will only be a matter of time before there is a far right party leading an EU nation, then the implode will begin.
I keep saying I'm glad we're the first to leave, as it won't be pretty once the scraps are left.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Wonderful, the French appear to have escaped the mind numbing idiocy that has overtaken the UK and USA.

[Murger]

Macron walks out to the EU anthem. Says all you need to know about who'll be running France.

[Paul Waine]

Turns out France isn't as stupid as we are. Good for them!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-39823865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi IT, I congratulate France on their democratic decision. I also congratulate UK on our democratic decision. Democracy isn't "stupid" - I'm sure you will agree.

Vive la France!

[ClaretMoffitt]

That's the thing, you really are scared. You used to support liberal values like freedom of religion, speech, expression etc but now you openly oppose those values by supporting politicians who think only those values should apply to certain types of people (generally speaking non-muslims and non-migrants). You've chosen to be suspicious of all Muslims and support politicians who will persecute them.

If you've not been frightened into abandoning British Values™ then i guess you were only pretending to support liberal western values in the past and have only stopped pretending because you think your political views have become more acceptible as fascists become more competitive in elections. For now I prefer to assume you're just frightened. Feel free to convince me otherwise though.

You are damn right I'm scared. I see the west sleepwalking into its own demise. Voting for corrupt globalist bankers, voting for the same people that have caused the unrest and terror they see today in their countries. When I go to the Trafford centre now, or get on a Virgin train to London at peak business hours, terrorism always pops up at least once in my thoughts. This is the new normal, and it's these people who keep getting voted in that have made it this way.

And I don't see this problem getting fixed, I see blindness, I see fear to call it what it is, I see a total ignorance of what the cause is by the political elite and I see people still voting for them despite it all.

[Lancasterclaret]

Jesus CM, take a chill pill.

How the hell did you cope when the IRA were blowing up stuff, or the PLO were hijacking or blowing up airliners?

I know your dreams have taken a huge knock today, but you are losing it a bit.

I get disliking the EU, but actively wanting a fascist to win?

Nah, thats wrong, and you know it is as well.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Jesus CM, take a chill pill.

How the hell did you cope when the IRA were blowing up stuff, or the PLO were hijacking or blowing up airliners?

I know your dreams have taken a huge knock today, but you are losing it a bit.

I get disliking the EU, but actively wanting a fascist to win?

Nah, thats wrong, and you know it is as well.

Was only a very young child (under 8) so I didn't really know it was going on.

[Devils_Advocate]

You are damn right I'm scared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nINoMsSqUY

[Lancasterclaret]

But it was similar to now.

And people just got on with it.

All that has really changed is that suicide bombers are in the equation, and that alone is no reason to throw seventy years of progress away because of a few nutters.

I guess all I'm saying is that we dealt with that, and we will deal with this, and we will just get on with it.

[Imploding Turtle]

Hi IT, I congratulate France on their democratic decision. I also congratulate UK on our democratic decision. Democracy isn't "stupid" - I'm sure you will agree.

Vive la France!

I've never said democracy is stupid. People are stupid.

[Devils_Advocate]

But it was similar to now.

Except the IRA never had the Burka

[bfcjg]

Hitler used Panzers, Merkel uses scare tactics. When he talks and uses the politicians hand movements look at the strings all the way back to the Reichstag.

[dsr]

But it was similar to now.

And people just got on with it.

All that has really changed is that suicide bombers are in the equation, and that alone is no reason to throw seventy years of progress away because of a few nutters.

I guess all I'm saying is that we dealt with that, and we will deal with this, and we will just get on with it.

It's different in that the IRA didn't want the total destruction of the UK; they limited their "activities" on the mainland for various reasons, including that they didn't want to strain the patience of their American sources of funds, and that they didn't want to be so terrible that the UK government would treat them like the army they claimed to be. Also, few of them actively wanted to die - they may have been willing to die, but it wasn't a priority.

[Imploding Turtle]

You are damn right I'm scared. I see the west sleepwalking into its own demise. Voting for corrupt globalist bankers, voting for the same people that have caused the unrest and terror they see today in their countries. When I go to the Trafford centre now, or get on a Virgin train to London at peak business hours, terrorism always pops up at least once in my thoughts. This is the new normal, and it's these people who keep getting voted in that have made it this way.

And I don't see this problem getting fixed, I see blindness, I see fear to call it what it is, I see a total ignorance of what the cause is by the political elite and I see people still voting for them despite it all.

That's funny because i see the west sleepwalking into fascism.

"corrupt globalist bankers". Who, Macron? How is he corrupt? Anyway, it's pretty funny how you claim to hate corruption yet are so upset that Le Pen lost, and are happy that Trump won. I can't think of many people more corrupt than those two.

[nil_desperandum]

Macron may have won, quite easily, However I find the key thing to take from this is the fact that 34.5% of the nation voted for a far right government. Those 34.5%, even though they haven't got the result they wanted will still be wanting out of the EU, tighter immigration.. etc. under a leader that will not have an interest in their interests..

Except 34.5% of the nation didn't vote for Le Pen. You need to look at the results properly. Apparently Le Pen got 34.5% of votes cast by a very low turn-out by French standards.
Only about 65% voted, and of those only just over a third could bring themselves to vote for Le Pen, in what was a 2 horse race, so that's about 20%.
Of course, by the same logic, Macron also got less than 50% "of the nation", but the fact remains that whilst 35% of the electorate didn't turn out to vote for Macron, they certainly cannot be considered fascists, otherwise they would have turned to le Pen.

[Paul Waine]

I've never said democracy is stupid. People are stupid.

Hi IT, yes, I know what you have said. It doesn't make it in any sense right or clever that you've said it.

[Imploding Turtle]

Except the IRA never had the Burka

I don't remember anyone saying we should outlaw balaclavas.

[nil_desperandum]

Hi IT, I congratulate France on their democratic decision. I also congratulate UK on our democratic decision. Democracy isn't "stupid" - I'm sure you will agree.

Vive la France!

Oui - et "vive la difference!"

[Lancasterclaret]

Shock

Dsr not answering the question fully.

What about all the other terrorist organisations around at the time?

And its good surely that a fascist was defeated? (again, as I don't think you answered it earlier)

Your main benefactor Arron "I'm not a fascist, I just have lots of fascist friends and accounts I run are tweeting that its a disaster than a fascist has lost" Banks is pretty much confirming the opposite on twitter btw.

[Devils_Advocate]

I don't remember anyone saying we should outlaw balaclavas.

Thats because balaclavas are far less menacing and you are not allowed to where one in a post office

[RingoMcCartney]

234 people killed in france in less than 2 years, with the problem set to get worse, and they voted for the guy who will do absolutely nothing about it.

You call that scaremongering? I don't care though, they had the chance to fight back but chose their natural position as a nation of cowards and picked a soulless political shill, globalist banker.

Nail hit firmly on the head my friend!

[RingoMcCartney]

You are damn right I'm scared. I see the west sleepwalking into its own demise. Voting for corrupt globalist bankers, voting for the same people that have caused the unrest and terror they see today in their countries. When I go to the Trafford centre now, or get on a Virgin train to London at peak business hours, terrorism always pops up at least once in my thoughts. This is the new normal, and it's these people who keep getting voted in that have made it this way.

And I don't see this problem getting fixed, I see blindness, I see fear to call it what it is, I see a total ignorance of what the cause is by the political elite and I see people still voting for them despite it all.

I may be wrong CM , but in the 1st round of the French presidential elections. Nearly half the voters went for an anti EU candidate.

If I'm wrong ill hold me hand up....

[Lancasterclaret]

So you wanted the fascist to win?

What is it with you anti-EU people?

You do understand what a fascist will do to a country don't you?

And its one of our closest allies and certainly one of our biggest trading partners.

SHE IS A FASCIST

You know, like Hitler, Franco, Mussolini etc

[Devils_Advocate]

I may be wrong

Why break a habit of a lifetime

[john'sroseyspecs]

Blair. Who married his mother! ( been a long weekend)

[nil_desperandum]

I may be wrong CM , but in the 1st round of the French presidential elections. Nearly half the voters went for an anti EU candidate.
.

But surely the votes of nearly half count for nothing? They are the "losers". You continually remind us of this.

[Imploding Turtle]

Thats because balaclavas are far less menacing and you are not allowed to where one in a post office

Yeah. Far less menacing. I must have missed that season of Line of Duty that included a character called "Burka Man".

[Devils_Advocate]

Yeah. Far less menacing. I must have missed that season of Line of Duty that included a character called "Burka Man".

I think its the sarcasm in my posts you've probably missed but i'll leave you to the proper discussion now

[RingoMcCartney]

But surely the votes of nearly half count for nothing? They are the "losers". You continually remind us of this.

Well yes they are.

But in France there will be another general election in a couple of years, where the electorate will be able to consider the manifestos of the parties. Perhaps the terrorist threat may have increased and the EU may have degenerated further, by then. So the the electorate will have the opportunity to vote again.

With the referendum, there was no Leave Party or Remain Party with respective manifestos that will be up for electoral scrutiny in 5 years.

So yes tonight there are winners and losers. But in 5 years time their roles may be reversed.

In 5 years time , remoaners will still be losers.

[Holmeclaret]

You are damn right I'm scared. I see the west sleepwalking into its own demise. Voting for corrupt globalist bankers, voting for the same people that have caused the unrest and terror they see today in their countries. When I go to the Trafford centre now, or get on a Virgin train to London at peak business hours, terrorism always pops up at least once in my thoughts. This is the new normal, and it's these people who keep getting voted in that have made it this way.

And I don't see this problem getting fixed, I see blindness, I see fear to call it what it is, I see a total ignorance of what the cause is by the political elite and I see people still voting for them despite it all.

I get on a Metropolitan line train every morning that either goes to Baker Street or Aldgate (via Kings Cross - remember the attacks 10 years ago?).There's a whole cross section of the population on board including bearded muslims and women with hijabs. I can tell you that NOBODY is scared. No insult intended here but I think you need help if you really believe you're going to be a victim of terrorism when you're on a train to the Trafford Centre or on a Virgin train to London. Either that or you need to stop this internet thing for a while. How do you feel when you see a young muslim in the street or at Turf Moor?

[RingoMcCartney]

Why break a habit of a lifetime

Fantastic riposte mate. Well done!