France votes pro-EU

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Sun May 07, 2017 10:59 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Shock

Dsr not answering the question fully.

What about all the other terrorist organisations around at the time?

And its good surely that a fascist was defeated? (again, as I don't think you answered it earlier)

Your main benefactor Arron "I'm not a fascist, I just have lots of fascist friends and accounts I run are tweeting that its a disaster than a fascist has lost" Banks is pretty much confirming the opposite on twitter btw.
Yawn. Lancaster having a pointless dig.

The other terrorist organisations were less scary because they weren't operating in the UK, by and large.

Yes, it's good that a fascist was defeated. I'd have voted for Macron myself, if I'd been French. But that wouldn't have meant I was pro-EU.

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun May 07, 2017 11:04 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:But surely the votes of nearly half count for nothing? They are the "losers". You continually remind us of this.

No no. You don't understand. When Ringo likes the result then everyone else can get ******. They lost and should be ignored completely.
But when Ringo hates the result then we've got to pay attention to the losers' concerns. Remember that you're replying to someone who thinks Nick Clegg is literally a traitor. That's the level of "thinking" that goes on in Ringo's head.

Incidentally, i think all sides of the argument should receive equal hearing, including the 35% who voted for fascism. Their concerns should be addressed but not in a manner that compromises on western liberal values.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun May 07, 2017 11:24 pm

Glad that you agree that voting for a fascist is a bad idea.

You need to tell your benefactor that, cos he seems to be struggling with the concept.

As far as I can see, the difference in UK terrorist attacks since the IRA stopped is a hell of a lot less, but thats not what you want to believe is it?

Burnley Ace
Posts: 3525
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:03 pm
Been Liked: 651 times
Has Liked: 2879 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun May 07, 2017 11:38 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its a quote from the Simpsons.

That ok then.

Just to be clear Murger, does that mean that the 80,000 British soldiers who surrendered at Singapore were "cheese eating surrender monkeys"?
They didn't eat cheese.

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Sun May 07, 2017 11:46 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Glad that you agree that voting for a fascist is a bad idea.

You need to tell your benefactor that, cos he seems to be struggling with the concept.

As far as I can see, the difference in UK terrorist attacks since the IRA stopped is a hell of a lot less, but thats not what you want to believe is it?
What on earth are you on about? I told you why I thought the Muslim (or those who believe themselves to be Muslim) terrorists were scarier than the IRA. How do you get from that to an assessment of my beliefs and wishful thinking about numbers of attacks?

However, if it helps clear your mind, I tended to discount IRA attacks in Northern Ireland in the "fear factor" because I didn't go to Northern Ireland. Those attacks were just as much "overseas and out of mind" as the Baader-Meinhofs or ETTA. But it was Moffatt who was scared, not me, if that's what's confusing you.

Who do you consider to be my benefactor? I'm genuinely confused about that one.

thatdberight
Posts: 3748
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:49 am
Been Liked: 927 times
Has Liked: 716 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by thatdberight » Mon May 08, 2017 12:17 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's pretty typical of fascists. They know they can't win based on the facts fo their arguments so instead they have to go after you personally. ...threatening "direct action"... All they have is hatred and anger...
And, yet, which candidate found their rallies the subject of violence and disruption? Not Macron. But in Corsica, Nantes, Aubervilliers and the rest, it was Le Pen's. Of course, that disruption is, doubtless, a righteous violence I'm sure we'll be told.

thatdberight
Posts: 3748
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:49 am
Been Liked: 927 times
Has Liked: 716 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by thatdberight » Mon May 08, 2017 12:20 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its absolutely incredible that people can't see that its a blatant attempt by Wikileaks (run by a bloke who is so far up Putins arse, he's almost touching Marie Le Pens feet) to sabotage the democratic process.

Just how far do this lot have to go before you'll accept thats its a blatant attempt to destroy democracy in Western Europe?
And, oh, to think of how fond of Assange the left were and how much credibility his output was given not so long ago...

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon May 08, 2017 1:38 am

thatdberight wrote:And, yet, which candidate found their rallies the subject of violence and disruption? Not Macron. But in Corsica, Nantes, Aubervilliers and the rest, it was Le Pen's. Of course, that disruption is, doubtless, a righteous violence I'm sure we'll be told.

Well, Macron's was filled with liberals and there wasn't much violence there. I'm saying this because i feel like you're trying to imply that liberals are violent political extremists.

Of course, I know what you're really trying to imply and it's literally as stupid as saying "Burnley fans rioted therefore Burnley fans are violent".

Maybe have a little think before your next post.

Rowls
Posts: 13163
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 pm
Been Liked: 5065 times
Has Liked: 5124 times
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Rowls » Mon May 08, 2017 4:21 am

This vote had very little to do with the EU.

It was the majority of people voting against a nationalist party with a history of openly racist policies.
These 3 users liked this post: Caballo CleggHall Holmeclaret

Heathclaret
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 9:49 am
Been Liked: 190 times
Has Liked: 179 times
Location: Bracebridge Heath, Lincoln.

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Heathclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 8:06 am

Stayingup wrote:When you grow uo and start wearing long pants and learn something about European history you will know what I mean. You are completely deluded about this corrupt unaccountable EU. And dont intimate I am thick. I run a fair size business and trade with many countries.
I am very understanding and in tune with many foreign cultures and reigions and have visited and lived in many countries and know a corrupt greedy and ruthless non -caring communist organization when I encouter one. What do you do and what cultures do you know. Incidentally I lived and worked in France for a long time
So dont you preach to.me.
I wasn't preaching to you, merely pointing out that you were being offensive. I'm pleased that you have been successful in life and run a business. I run my own business as well, I was born in west Africa, where I lived until I was sixteen, I have lived and worked in France as well, strangely enough, and I will be returning there within the next couple of years.
I only wear long pants when it's too cold for shorts which, in this country is most of the time. Trying to belittle people by implying they are immature really should be beneath you, try not to do it in the future as it shows a lack of thought.
May I take this opportunity to wish you and your company the best of luck in the future and please remember, your opinions and beliefs are not shared by everyone.

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Sidney1st » Mon May 08, 2017 8:10 am

I heard some of his policies last night on the radio and if I'm honest, I'd vote for him to run the UK....
This user liked this post: Heathclaret

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 8:18 am

Ah, so we discount terrorist attacks on UK soil, cos its a bit further away?

Again, you are trying far too hard. Terrorist attacks, horrible as they are, have been part of the news since I've been alive and a sensible, mature democracy (which we almost certainly are) deals with them correctly.

Regarding your benefactor?

Come off it, you are UKIP, you sound like a Burnley version of Farage on here. Trying to pretend otherwise just because Aaron Banks is backing fascism is a step too far clearly.

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Mon May 08, 2017 9:14 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Ah, so we discount terrorist attacks on UK soil, cos its a bit further away?

Again, you are trying far too hard. Terrorist attacks, horrible as they are, have been part of the news since I've been alive and a sensible, mature democracy (which we almost certainly are) deals with them correctly.

Regarding your benefactor?

Come off it, you are UKIP, you sound like a Burnley version of Farage on here. Trying to pretend otherwise just because Aaron Banks is backing fascism is a step too far clearly.
A terrorist bomb in foreign parts is less personally dangerous to me than a terrorist bomb near home. Is that hard to grasp?

Assuming in your oblique way that you're trying to say that Farage is my benefactor, it's a strange choice of words. I suppose he has done more than anyone to make this Brexit vote happen, so in that sense he is a benefactor; but by and large when I think of people giving me things, I'm thinking a bit more direct. I'm not UKIP - I just support their main idea. Now that the Conservatives are for Brexit, they can have my vote back, especially as I like Andrew Stephenson as MP.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 9:17 am

Ah, so you are ramble on about Islamic terrorism in London (243 miles away) but ignore it IRA terrorism in Manchester (22 miles away)

Got you now. Pretty clear that your argument is bullshit.

Glad to hear that you are dropping UKIP, probably a good idea as they are on the verge of going full fascist.

quoonbeatz
Posts: 4491
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:03 am
Been Liked: 2562 times
Has Liked: 757 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by quoonbeatz » Mon May 08, 2017 9:41 am

France in 'not dicks' shocker.

basil6345789
Posts: 2703
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:22 pm
Been Liked: 481 times
Has Liked: 2289 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by basil6345789 » Mon May 08, 2017 9:49 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Turns out France isn't as stupid as we are. Good for them!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-39823865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's just a matter of time until Marine gets in - probably next time, 4 or 5 years on?

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 9:52 am

Yeah, thats what people who supported her dad kept saying as well.

Hows that one working out?

SammyBoy
Posts: 1452
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:41 pm
Been Liked: 469 times
Has Liked: 434 times
Location: Sector 7G

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by SammyBoy » Mon May 08, 2017 10:37 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Ah, so you are ramble on about Islamic terrorism in London (243 miles away) but ignore it IRA terrorism in Manchester (22 miles away)

Got you now. Pretty clear that your argument is bullshit.

Glad to hear that you are dropping UKIP, probably a good idea as they are on the verge of going full fascist.
Won't Belfast be closer as well, as the crow flies, than London?

Woodleyclaret
Posts: 6888
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1468 times
Has Liked: 1839 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Woodleyclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 10:41 am

France and Germany have used the EU as their personal piggy bank.Dipping into the till and expecting others members to roll over and give in to their schemes.
The sooner we escape from their clutches the better.
This user liked this post: RingoMcCartney

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 10:41 am

Yeah, but the weird way he looks at stuff, I thought that he'd go on about the Irish Sea.

Just highlights what a crap argument he had though!

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Mon May 08, 2017 11:17 am

Irrational it may be, but I see it that bombs where I have family are more likely to affect me than bombs where I don't have family. Bombs in places where I go on holiday are more likely to affect me than bombs where I don't go on holiday. And obviously it's pointless expecting you to read or remember anything that doesn't fit your prejudices, but I never said I was bothered by bombs anyway - it was Moffatt who said he was worried by Islamist terrrorists, and I was just explaining why people might see these sort of terrorists different from the IRO, PLO, Baader Meinhof, etc, Your selfish Lancaster-centric world is not the world everyone lives in, and just because you think people are stupid for disagreeing with you doesn't necessarily mean they are stupid. There are more ways of being right than your own, and sneering at those who disagree is unworthy behaviour.

nil_desperandum
Posts: 7301
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
Been Liked: 1823 times
Has Liked: 3948 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by nil_desperandum » Mon May 08, 2017 11:28 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:France and Germany have used the EU as their personal piggy bank.Dipping into the till and expecting others members to roll over and give in to their schemes.
The sooner we escape from their clutches the better.
You do know that both Germany and France contribute a lot more to the EU coffers than the UK, don't you?, especially when you subtract the UK rebate of over 4 billion.
Germany - in point of fact, contribute more on their own than 19 of the EU states put together.
This user liked this post: Heathclaret

Heathclaret
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 9:49 am
Been Liked: 190 times
Has Liked: 179 times
Location: Bracebridge Heath, Lincoln.

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Heathclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 11:29 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:France and Germany have used the EU as their personal piggy bank.Dipping into the till and expecting others members to roll over and give in to their schemes.
The sooner we escape from their clutches the better.
" We " will be escaping soon, I hope it turns out as well as you seem to think it will. As for France and Germany " dipping in the till and expecting other members to roll over and give in to their schemes " that is anti EU sentiment. There is a lot wrong with the EU, but Macron has the right idea. Reform and strengthen it, not leave. IMHO, of course. No one has to agree with me.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 11:49 am

What an IT like post DSR

So you are allowed your opinions, but mine are "selfish".

Jeez

Rowls
Posts: 13163
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 pm
Been Liked: 5065 times
Has Liked: 5124 times
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Rowls » Mon May 08, 2017 1:15 pm

basil6345789 wrote:It's just a matter of time until Marine gets in - probably next time, 4 or 5 years on?
Marine won't get in.

Her niece may possibly chip away a bit more at their electoral deficit.

Last time it was 80-20.
This time 65-35.

Who knows?

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by aggi » Mon May 08, 2017 1:42 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:You are damn right I'm scared. I see the west sleepwalking into its own demise. Voting for corrupt globalist bankers, voting for the same people that have caused the unrest and terror they see today in their countries. When I go to the Trafford centre now, or get on a Virgin train to London at peak business hours, terrorism always pops up at least once in my thoughts. This is the new normal, and it's these people who keep getting voted in that have made it this way.

And I don't see this problem getting fixed, I see blindness, I see fear to call it what it is, I see a total ignorance of what the cause is by the political elite and I see people still voting for them despite it all.
I wonder why you perceive this as such a danger. When going to the trafford centre do you worry about a car accident, when you're on the train do you worry about a train crash? You're more likely to die by either of these than terrorism.

I work in Central London, on the day of the July bombings I was on a Piccadilly line train and got off at Kings Cross, within a few minutes a bomb went off on a Piccadilly line train between Kings Cross and Russell Square. Terrorism barely pops up in my thoughts though, the risk is minuscule.

I would agree with this though This is the new normal, and it's these people who keep getting voted in that have made it this way.. The huge overemphasis on terrorism as justification for new laws and the erosion of civil liberties is a significant issue. It's a convenient justification for a whole raft of ill-thought out legislation (the attempts to ban online encryption being the top bizarre one at the moment) that would never normally be approved.

Air pollution for instance kills thousands every year in the UK and the government refuses to even publish a plan on how to tackle it. Terrorism kills half a dozen people a year.
These 2 users liked this post: Greenmile Holmeclaret

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon May 08, 2017 1:49 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:France and Germany have used the EU as their personal piggy bank.Dipping into the till and expecting others members to roll over and give in to their schemes.

You have quite the imagination. You got any evidence for this?

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon May 08, 2017 1:51 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:What an IT like post DSR

So you are allowed your opinions, but mine are "selfish".

Jeez

**** you.
This user liked this post: Lancasterclaret

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon May 08, 2017 3:16 pm

Image

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Mon May 08, 2017 3:39 pm

France had a choice between the EU and a fascist party. Over a third of voters preferred the National Front to the EU. That's not something for the EU to be pleased about, it's something for them to worry about.

nil_desperandum
Posts: 7301
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
Been Liked: 1823 times
Has Liked: 3948 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by nil_desperandum » Mon May 08, 2017 3:57 pm

dsr wrote:France had a choice between the EU and a fascist party. Over a third of voters preferred the National Front to the EU. That's not something for the EU to be pleased about, it's something for them to worry about.
You mean over a third of those who voted and didn't spoil their paper or vote for Macron I think. Bearing in mind the low turn-out, it's a rather different statistic.
34.8 million went to the polls yesterday which is only 75% of those registered to vote. However 4 million of these votes were spoiled papers or abstentions, and of the rest Emmanuel Macron won 20.7m (66 per cent) of the vote, Marine Le Pen won 10.6m (34 per cent), but this still leaves over 30% who didn't vote for le Pen or Macron.

Other than Mr Macron, the only candidate to win a larger percentage of the vote was Chirac in 2002 -when coincidentally he saw off le Pen (Senior) by 82% to 18%

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 4:19 pm

[France had a choice between the EU and a fascist party. Over a third of voters preferred the National Front to the EU. That's not something for the EU to be pleased about, it's something for them to worry about.
Meanwhile in the UK, 48% of the population voted differently to what 52% did, and it doesn't matter. Why should the EU worry about people who have lost?

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Mon May 08, 2017 4:26 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:You mean over a third of those who voted and didn't spoil their paper or vote for Macron I think. Bearing in mind the low turn-out, it's a rather different statistic.
34.8 million went to the polls yesterday which is only 75% of those registered to vote. However 4 million of these votes were spoiled papers or abstentions, and of the rest Emmanuel Macron won 20.7m (66 per cent) of the vote, Marine Le Pen won 10.6m (34 per cent), but this still leaves over 30% who didn't vote for le Pen or Macron.

Other than Mr Macron, the only candidate to win a larger percentage of the vote was Chirac in 2002 -when coincidentally he saw off le Pen (Senior) by 82% to 18%
Which makes it even worse for the EU. Of the people who could be bothered to vote, less than 60% voted for the EU party. If 4m people (almost 1 in 8 of the voters) take the trouble to turn out just to register that they won't vote for either Macron (EU) or Le Pen (NF), and another 30% of voters go so far as to vote National Front, then the EU is pretty unpopular. A total of less than 60% of the turnout, when your opponents are Le Pen and "None of the above", is rubbish. It would have been interesting if there had been a middle of the road major candidate standing on a pro-referendum ticket.

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon May 08, 2017 4:32 pm

The EU isn't that unpopular. You only think it is.

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Mon May 08, 2017 4:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The EU isn't that unpopular. You only think it is.
Until the French have a referendum, we won't know. We know it's not wildly popular in this country.
This user liked this post: Rowls

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon May 08, 2017 4:49 pm

dsr wrote:Until the French have a referendum, we won't know. We know it's not wildly popular in this country.

You're thinking very narrowly and only about the net contributing nations. It's like polling Bullingdon Club alumni about whether the NHS is a good idea and then deciding on it's popularity based on the results.

There is more to the EU than just the UK, France and Germany.

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Mon May 08, 2017 4:56 pm

I suspect Germany would vote in. But yes, to be technical (even though this is a thread about France), until the other 27 countries each have EU referendums, we won't know how popular the EU is.

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Paul Waine » Mon May 08, 2017 5:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You're thinking very narrowly and only about the net contributing nations. It's like polling Bullingdon Club alumni about whether the NHS is a good idea and then deciding on it's popularity based on the results.

There is more to the EU than just the UK, France and Germany.
Hi IT, that's a confusing post - are you saying that the EU is popular in all the net recipient nations? Is that true of Greece?

Can you list the net contributing nations - and how much.

Imploding Turtle
Posts: 19799
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
Been Liked: 5483 times
Has Liked: 2540 times
Location: Burnley, Lancs

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon May 08, 2017 5:34 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi IT, that's a confusing post - are you saying that the EU is popular in all the net recipient nations? Is that true of Greece?

Can you list the net contributing nations - and how much.
All of them? No. But then I doubt the NHS is popular in every single community. My analogy stands up.

No, not without googling it.

ClaretMoffitt
Posts: 3889
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:19 pm
Been Liked: 1216 times
Has Liked: 807 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Mon May 08, 2017 5:51 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:All of them? No. But then I doubt the NHS is popular in every single community. My analogy stands up.

No, not without googling it.

I must say, contrary to popular tradition; I notice a distinct lack of public disorder and rioting by those nasty, far right bigots in France. I thought you always told me that when the right lose, they get angry and destructive but when the left lose, they simply get sad?

lovebeingaclaret
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:42 am
Been Liked: 120 times
Has Liked: 355 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by lovebeingaclaret » Mon May 08, 2017 6:06 pm

This is what worries me. Not for myself but my grandkids and their generation.

No one seems to be wanting to get a grip on migration with the liberal thinking and the fear of bring called racist.

Once Turkey start opening their borders again I dare not think what is going to become of Europe.

I voted remain but if their is another opportunity I will definitely be a leaver following the ridiculous and stupid statements coming from the EU.

I would see the only way out is Brexit.

https://youtu.be/uGfP8CyJAhg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Paul Waine » Mon May 08, 2017 6:13 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:All of them? No. But then I doubt the NHS is popular in every single community. My analogy stands up.

No, not without googling it.
OK: some EU net contribution figures 2013 (latest full year available) - all figures sourced from EU official website in euros - via this link:

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/index_en.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Germany: Contribution 29,376 billion, EU spend 13,056 bn, net paid in 16,370 bn;
UK: Contribution 17,068 billion, EU spend 6,308 bn, net paid in 10,760 bn;
France: Contribution 23,291 billion, EU spend 14,239 bn, net paid in 9,052 bn;
Italy: Contribution 17,167 billion, EU spend 12,554 bn, net paid in 4,613 bn;
Poland: Contribution 4,214 billion, EU spend 16,308 bn, net received 11,965 bn;

Germany is the largest contributor to EU revenue. France is the second largest contributor. Italy is the third largest contributor and UK the fourth largest.

Germany remains the largest net contributor after EU expenditure in Germany has been deducted.
UK moves up to second largest net contributor.
France is third largest net contributor.

Caernarfon_Claret
Posts: 5044
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:53 am
Been Liked: 1473 times
Has Liked: 633 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Caernarfon_Claret » Mon May 08, 2017 7:27 pm

Greece didn't like the fact that they were supposedly bailed out when all that money ended up bailing out German banks. They wanted to declare bankcruptcy but that would have been bad for the German banks. At least the UK government was up front about bailing out UK banks - The Germans pretended they were helping a country. It would be like someone going to a food bank but the food ending up on the Queen's table instead and the poor person stalving to death. The way it worked before the 2008 crash was that The large Banks in Europe lent to the cash straped coutries to invest in their infrastructure when everything crashed it was the countries expected to pay not the banks. With the chance to declare bancruptcy denied to Greece they were royaly screwed by The EU.
This user liked this post: Heathclaret

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by KRBFC » Wed May 10, 2017 8:56 am

Heathclaret wrote:When I see shite like this posted about a nation that suffered terribly in both wars, I seriously wonder about the intelligence of the person who writes it. Pathetic.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by KRBFC » Wed May 10, 2017 8:58 am

It's pretty typical of fascists. They know they can't win based on the facts fo their arguments so instead they have to go after you personally. Britain First, for example, pride themselves in threatening "direct action", particularly against journalists, instead of winning arguments if you do something they don't like. If you followed the US election on internet forums or subreddits you'll have rarely seen Trump supports try to make valid arguments. Instead what they'll do is ban you from whatever subreddit you're posting in if you say anything that upset their narrative, and then get back to calling Hillary Clinton literally a murderer, or bring up Bill Clinton's infidelity, or claim she's part of a paedophile ring.

Just look at Moffitt's visceral reaction about the French. That's basically all the alt-right have when it comes to ideas. All they have is hatred and anger. No workable ideas whatsoever. It's why Trump can't get anything done, because what he wants doing can't work.
This user liked this post: bedfords

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed May 10, 2017 9:13 am

Bring back the real KRBFC you alien fiend!

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by dsr » Wed May 10, 2017 9:19 am

KRBFC wrote:Just look at Moffitt's visceral reaction about the French. That's basically all the alt-right have when it comes to ideas. All they have is hatred and anger. No workable ideas whatsoever. It's why Trump can't get anything done, because what he wants doing can't work.
And therein lies the problem of using irony on a message board. It's not always spotted.

After the reaction to Margaret Thatcher's death on this and other message boards, it's hard to argue that hatred and anger is a uniquely right wing attribute.

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: France votes pro-EU

Post by KRBFC » Wed May 10, 2017 9:29 am

dsr wrote:And therein lies the problem of using irony on a message board. It's not always spotted.

After the reaction to Margaret Thatcher's death on this and other message boards, it's hard to argue that hatred and anger is a uniquely right wing attribute.
I am correct, I'm always correct.

Post Reply