Ok as things stand right now - How will you vote?

[aggi]

Regarding voting conservative as they're the party you want negotiating Brexit, I asked this on another thread but didn't get an answer.

I'm genuinely curious why people think this is the case and when I've asked people I've struggled to get an answer beyond "Well, Jeremy Corbyn". What has been shown in policies and statements to suggest that the conservatives would be better than labour?

I'd have thought that people would have wanted the Euro-sceptic negotiating, not the one who wanted to remain.

As for who I'll be voting for, I'm undecided. I'm not allied with a particular party so tend to take each election as it comes. The conservatives haven't impressed me so far, they seem determined to play a strong hand as badly as possible and the way they've run their campaign with it all being hugely stage managed gives me little confidence in their, and May's, abilities.

Labour on the other hand seem to be making a decent fist of it with some decent policies and appear to be running a surprisingly good campaign.

[COYC73]

Unfortunately in Burnley a Tory vote is wasted so I'm pretty much knacked as a vote for the Lib Dems could just as much see Corbyn in charge. That said, I prefer Birtwistle to Cooper so it'll no doubt be a choice for the lesser of two evils.

I thought the same thing.....but looking at it we might be wrong!
The 2015 General Election results were as follows....
Labour 14,951
LibDem 11,707
UKIP. 6,864
Conservative 5,374
Greens. 850

UKIP have pretty much collapsed so it is plausible that the UKIP voters could switch to Conservatives this time round.....which would bump them up to around 12,000 votes. I'm a lifelong Labour voter who won't vote for Corbyn as are my family and as you see on the message board there are lots of Labour voters who will not vote Labour this time because of Corbyn.

I voted Labour last in 2015 as did my family, so now you start to take some of those 14,951 Labour votes away from 2015 and put them on Tory (as me and my family will be voting this time) and it starts to get very close....

Lots of ifs and buts.....but it's not impossible for Burnley to switch to Conservatives in this Election.....It will be very interesting to see what this GE results will be...!!!!

[COYC73]

Though it's irrelevant whether Burnley turns from Labour to Conservatives anyway.....as there is no way Corbyn will get enough votes to win this GE...!!!! He won't even beat the SNP in Scotland.....and he would need all those Scottish seats and then still take seats away from the Tories.....= Never going to happen!

Bookies have Labour at 12/1 to win....Conservatives are at 1/14
That tells you everything you need to know....!

[kentonclaret]

Safe in the knowledge that Jeremy Corbyn cannot win, as outlined by previous posters, many voters may decide to return to voting Labour rather than vote for Theresa May in order to try, at least, to return a party with enough seats to provide an effective opposition. Many people do not like the thought of a Theresa May government with no checks and balances. She is, after all, just the best of a pretty poor lot with many people saying they will vote for the Conservatives because of their dislike of Jeremy Corbyn not because they see strong and stable leadership in Theresa May.

The Lib Dems are not going to get enough votes/seats to provide an effective opposition.

[fatboy47]

I just checked with my dog, Coker, and he tells me he's voting Conservative.

He's not the brightest to be honest, but he works hard all day for nothing, eats some cheap tasteless dog food (when I can be arsed to feed him) and sleeps out in the shed on the floor....and accepts that I wine and dine most nights in the big house, snooze away in the old four poster and lead a fairly indulgent life, now that I've made my pile.

He's a good dog, and he does what he's told.

[Dom]

I don't want to vote for any of them, all the party leaders are uninspiring. Liz McInnes is my local MP, she comes across ok. Most likely vote Labour.

[minnieclaret]

postal vote for Labour. Even though I said I'd never vote for him Mays arrogance has broken me.
They are trying to pull off what every Tory leader since Thatcher has, we are the party of the people. ********.
The rich get rich and the poor can go to food banks.
Evil party. Slowly killing the NHS whilst denying it.
How many TRILLION is the National debt? after 7 years of austerity for the people who need help the most.
I REALLY fecking hate tories.

[Sidney1st]

I don't want to vote for any of them, all the party leaders are uninspiring. Liz McInnes is my local MP, she comes across ok. Most likely vote Labour.

You don't have to vote for any of them.
Spoil it or don't go.

[COYC73]

A lot of people hate the Tories...! But then just when the Tories are ripe for the taking we get offered this man as a replacement....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02z3x45" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jurek]

I shall vote for Labour.

I think Jeremy Corbyn should directly challenge Teresa May re. Brexit negotiations
and put forward his team.

May won't even be in the negotiating room as far as I know so the notion that she
will be strong and get the best deal for Britain as a result of her skills
are misplaced. And given the way she has already started she would be a liability.
The Labour Party have plenty of folk who would be just as good at negotiating
Brexit as the Tories have. And may actually end up getting a better deal.

[COYC73]

Makes you wonder, if in 25 years time.....People will be considering voting to make an ISIS supporter Prime Minister of the UK, who refuses to condemn ISIS for the evil they did/are doing....

[Rick_Muller]

Did you vote Labour when they were sending work out to private hospitals too?

Sid, we get on well in most of the threads on here and I dont want to change that mate, but I am looking for evidence that Labour initiated the move towards outsourcing NHS healthcare to private hospitals and I am coming up short. Have you got any info to support that? (asking genuinely, because I want to know the history of it).

I can only find references to the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990 where the Tory government restructured the NHS to allow for provisioning across NHS trusts (which is the mechanism for subcontracting out healthcare to another organisation.). I can also find evidence that Tony Blair's Labour government used that conecpt to use private healthcare firms for healthcare (hey one NHS trust is just another business, so why not a private business too).

What I am struggling with is that it is all Labours fault during the Blair years when, from what I can decipher, it is the changes to the NHS which created the concept of sub contracting out healthcare was a Tory decision in 1990.

[fatboy47]

Sid, we get on well in most of the threads on here and I dont want to change that mate, but I am looking for evidence that Labour initiated the move towards outsourcing NHS healthcare to private hospitals and I am coming up short. Have you got any info to support that? (asking genuinely, because I want to know the history of it).

I can only find references to the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990 where the Tory government restructured the NHS to allow for provisioning across NHS trusts (which is the mechanism for subcontracting out healthcare to another organisation.). I can also find evidence that Tony Blair's Labour government used that conecpt to use private healthcare firms for healthcare (hey one NHS trust is just another business, so why not a private business too).

What I am struggling with is that it is all Labours fault during the Blair years when, from what I can decipher, it is the changes to the NHS which created the concept of sub contracting out healthcare was a Tory decision in 1990.

Semantics Rick......Blair's lot did the square root of f*ck all to reverse the creeping Tory privatisation of the NHS.

[Rick_Muller]

Semantics Rick......Blair's lot did the square root of f*ck all to reverse the creeping Tory privatisation of the NHS.

I think I get that, but what I dont get is that it is all Labour's fault when from what I can find it is more attributable to politicians wanting power at fault whether Tory or Labour.

I think I want to identify the distinction between Tony Blair's New Labour and Jeremy Corbyn's (New) Old Labour

[Sidney1st]

Sure, I had a knee operation in 2004/5.
I met the Doctor for my initial appointment at Burnley.
My operation was done at a private hospital.

Same with my then wife's hysterectomy, dealt with initially at Blackburn and operated on in a private hospital.

I'm not saying it's ALL labours fault, what I'm finding out is people blaming the Tories for stuff that was also happening during Labour's last tenure in charge and they didn't stop it happening.

The NHS is knackered and keeps getting kicked around by both of the main parties, but blaming one over the other is just plain stupid in my eyes.

Let's vote in Labour though because they won't fix it either, they'll just carry it on like they did last time.

[Sidney1st]

I think I get that, but what I dont get is that it is all Labour's fault when from what I can find it is more attributable to politicians wanting power at fault whether Tory or Labour.

I think I want to identify the distinction between Tony Blair's New Labour and Jeremy Corbyn's (New) Old Labour

To the average person Labour is Labour, regardless of old or new.

[Rick_Muller]

I understand a bit more, thanks Sid.

I had similar experiences with a stomach ulcer (around 2000) and my initial appointment was NHS, but I was referred to a private clinic because I would be seen quicker. Thing is, I saw exactly the same consultant at the private clinic - my thoughts at the time was that it was a bit of a fiddle from the NHS consultant referring his NHS patients to his own private clinic to make more cash for himself - I'm certain that there will be similar stories.

I also get your point that Labour is Labour, and Conservative will be Conservative to many people and they wont change their views if their lives depended on it (we see a few examples of these on the forum daily!)

[Sidney1st]

Rick_Muller

I forgot to add we saw the same doctors in the private hospital as we did at the NHS one.

[KRBFC]

As usual, I wont vote because I'm not brainwashed by the lies told by each party. They lie through their teeth and make unlimited false promises just to brainwash people into voting for them, why do people just not see it? Its a sad world we live in, people actually argue over lies told by politicians

[AndrewJB]

it's difficult to like someone who has been attacked in every paper you've picked up for the last two years. I think one poll before the election was announced suggested a majority of people reckoned he'd be a 'disaster' as a prime minister. Some people have come around, due to Labour's manifesto. They are going to vote Labour 'despite Corbyn' The Guardian writer and big time Corbyn-critic Polly Toynbee sang the praises of the manifesto over the rooftops, and then ended her article with 'too bad we have Corbyn as leader' (or something like that). Great manifesto, lousy leader - but the problem with this is without Corbyn (or someone from that side of the party) as leader, this manifesto would not exist. David Milliband would not be offering us renationalisation of railways and utilities. Liz Kendall would not lead Labour into battle with free tuition. Under a different leader Labour would be triangulating itself just to the left of the Tories - softer on austerity, not quite as hard on the NHS. So whatever your opinion of Corbyn, he's given us a much clearer alternative. If you are a Labour supporter, again whether you like him or not, the fact Labour's finances are all in order can be attributed to him. Membership has trebled. Many Labour members feared that the direction Corbyn has taken the party in would make them unnattractive to ordinary voters. The manifesto has shown this not to be the case.

I can understand that many people have been exposed to the constant media negativity, however to allow this to colour their opinions during an election is a disservice to themselves. How many of those people have actually listened to anything he's had to say, or read anything he's written before making up their minds? If Corbyn is so useless and crap at his job, why is it he gets huge crowds wherever he goes? He doesn't sneak around the country like Theresa May speaking only to carefully chosen supporters. He's out in front of ordinary voters every day - completely exposed to whatever criticism comes his way. If he were as bad as the Tory press claim there would be no support like this. There's obvously a big gap between what the press call him, and the reality. As I've pointed out before a lot of the criticism levelled at him fall apart right away.

'Weak leader' - show me another politician who could hang on to win a second leadership contest after a huge rebellion of MPs? One thing he's said he will not be is a dictator or control freak such as we had with Blair, but that's not the same thing as weak.

'Extreme left wing' - look at the manifesto and show me where they're planning to abolish private property. There's nothing there that would look out of place in Angela Merkel's centre-right manifesto. If he were extreme left wing, what words would you use to describe someone even more left wing?

'Anti-British' - one of the more bizzare ones, but of course they did this with Milliband's dad. He's running to be Prime Minister, so how is that anti-British? What is anti-British about wanting to take back control of railways and utilities from foreign ownership? What is anti-British about having a foreign policy independent from Trump?

'Terrorist supporter' - he's also been called a 'dangerous pacifist' and really you can't be both. He's an MP who has made efforts toward bringing peace to Northern Ireland and the Middle East, and that's it. He also campaigned for Mandela's freedom while the Tories were calling him a terrorist. He advocates an ethical foreign policy, and this contrasts with Theresa May's government cosying up to Arab dictators, Saudi Arabia, and selling our nuclear industry off to China. Google 'Maria Gatland' to see Tory hypocrisy on this subject.

'Ineffective opposition' - This is a strange one, because for the first time in a long time there is clear blue water between what the Tories call for and what Labour are standing for. If you take into consideration that many of his parliamentary colleagues have been working hard against him I'd say he's accomplished a lot. Witness the many Tory U-turns.

'Not polished enough' - Corbyn doesn't do sound bites or repeat vacuous slogans. He answers questions head on, rather than dancing around them. Most people have cried out for honesty in politics for a long time, and Corbyn is closer to that ideal than many other MP's of whichever party. He also doesn't do personal abuse, which again is refreshing.

'Stubborn and ideological' - Firstly I'm glad he has clear principles. It seems like a long time since we've had anyone like that leading the country. He's compromised on Trident, which he obviously disagrees with, so it's clear he's not a dictator within the party.

I can't think of any politician in my lifetime who has been so relentlessly attacked, ridiculed, and derided by the newspapers. One of Cameron's press advisors described Theresa May's campaign as like 'playing FIFA on the easy setting' - such is the effort made by the press to attack Corbyn, and praise May. And that's because as good as the Labour manifesto looks to ordinary people, it isn't so good for press barons.

[COYC73]

As usual, I wont vote because I'm not brainwashed by the lies told by each party. They lie through their teeth and make unlimited false promises just to brainwash people into voting for them, why do people just not see it? Its a sad world we live in, people actually argue over lies told by politicians

We do see it...! We know that what's on offer is a big steaming pile of dung....
So we have no choice but to vote to keep the incompetent idiot Court Jester from winning to become leader but that unfortunately puts the evil witch in charge because there is No White Knight to vote for...!

[dpinsussex]

Vote cast already. First cross in the conservative box on the ballot paper

[jlup1980]

I can't believe anyone is 100% behind May or Corbyn so votes will change between now and election day.

May is making herself look a fool every time she's anywhere near the media. The whole strong and stable nonsense and the god awful manifesto have done little to sway me her way. The Tory's appear to be trying hard to alienate virtually every section of society, yet people are still considering voting their way? Who are they working for exactly, I haven't worked that bit out yet.

[kentonclaret]

Not the slightest chance that Jeremy Corbyn would ever replace Boris Johnson as Court Jester.

Peeking at the interview notes during Peston on Sunday.

Promoting whisky exports to India in a Sikh Temple.

Classics

[JTClaret]

I'm unsure. I did like JC, however I'm starting to think he's the type who is very intelligent and his ideas are great - in an ideal world, which it isn't - however if someone disagrees with him he won't start a slanging match, but will just irritate. And personally, I don't think him and Trump would have a relationship that would be good for the country at present time.

Add to that the sheer amount of Labour voters banging on about this, that and everything else, plus lots of 'if you don't vote Labour, you're an idiot' and to be honest, I really don't like it. It has become how I view the Labour party.

[Rick_Muller]

And personally, I don't think him and Trump would have a relationship that would be good for the country at present time.

Dont let that be a problem, I'm not sure Trump will be around for long. Make you're own mind up though.

[BleedingClaret]

To attempt, probably in vain, to stop immigration turning this country into the hell hole that some, even if a small minority, of these immigrants made there own countries into.

[BleedingClaret]

I'm unsure. I did like JC, however I'm starting to think he's the type who is very intelligent and his ideas are great - in an ideal world, which it isn't - however if someone disagrees with him he won't start a slanging match, but will just irritate. And personally, I don't think him and Trump would have a relationship that would be good for the country at present time.

Add to that the sheer amount of Labour voters banging on about this, that and everything else, plus lots of 'if you don't vote Labour, you're an idiot' and to be honest, I really don't like it. It has become how I view the Labour party.

Corbyn is the guy that would champion women's right whilst letting 50,000 women abusing immigrants into the country and never admit to even noticing the problem, even after retiring and writing his book
He's a knob
He could run a Wako style sect
But a country in this world nope

[Rick_Muller]

letting 50,000 women abusing immigrants into the country

and you have evidence that there are 50,000 women abusing immigrants coming into the country...???

[Lancasterclaret]

Only snowflakes need evidence

[COYC73]

plus lots of 'if you don't vote Labour, you're an idiot' and to be honest, I really don't like it. It has become how I view the Labour party.

Lots of far left activists "Corbynistas" infiltrated the Labour Party when Ed Milliband made the membership fee £3 and Jeremy Corbyn went on the ballot paper to become Leader.....The vast majority are a nasty bunch and will call you every name under the sun if you say one wrong word against their Messiah! They try to bully people into voting and try to sway you by posting things like that "This is nob" picture earlier in the post.....and much worse.

The good news is though....the vast amount of these people are only in the party for the far left Jeremy Corbyn and as soon as he's gone as Labour leader.....they'll leave the party too!
There are many many good people who have been silenced in the Labour Party or have simply left during this period (Me included) although I still have my membership, but just don't want to engage with these Corbynistas!
So don't think this is what the Labour Party is usually like....it's not! Before Corbyn and Corbynistas it was very good....
I just hope we get back all the great people that has left Labour because of this nightmare after Jeremy Corbyn has gone!

I'm a lifelong Labour voter and Labour member.....I'll be voting Tory this time to get Corbyn out and get our party back from these nasty lot! Can't wait until it's over...!!!!!

[BleedingClaret]

May wanted to fight this election on a Brexit platform but Labour have successfully managed to focus the debate on NHS/social care, education and taking back control of some of the nation's most valuable assets.

It's painfully obvious the Tories were woefully unprepared to campaign on any of the issues that were not on their traditional safe, or should that be strong and stable, ground.

Labour are likely to capture the younger vote and reclaim some of their older vote. It won't be enough but the gap will be a lot narrower than most people thought when the election was first called.

The most worrying aspect of this is that a supposedly fragmented Labour party with a widely-ridiculed leader are dictating the agenda - and people still seriously think May, Hammond, Johnson etc. are equipped to negotiate a far tougher EU exit brief and somehow secure the best possible terms for this country.

If Labour are running the show why will they lose so heavily
It's the press, apparently pro Tory, that are actually trying to make a contest where there is not one, it sells advertising which pays the wages.
If Labour win, we will be finished as a country, as we still just about know it.
This election is only about Brexit, anyone with half a brain knows that Labour cannot do successfully what their Manifesto intends.

[Greenmile]

For the first, and hopefully the last time, I will vote Tory. It hurts to even write it, BUT there isn't an alternative. Jeremy, even if he could win, would knock this country back 30 years.
It would solve the immigration problem though, they'd all be heading for the port once the place falls apart.

You do realise that Thatcher was PM (and had been for some time) 30 years ago, don't you? Surely you're not suggesting JC would be anything like she was.

[claretandy]

Typical Corbynista snowflake

https://youtu.be/h1IKEt5I9QU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndrewJB]

I know some disabled people who would agree with May being described as a terrorist.

[BleedingClaret]

Maybe i misunderstood https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brexi ... 66&bih=662" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You have misunderstood that we are not out of The EU as yet and won't be free of its monetary demands for at least 2 years, therefore this money has not been freed up, as yet.
Would it go to the NHS I don't know but it's going to the EU as it stands.
Dense or indoctrinated or just game playing this subject is a bore as are the pedlars.

[BleedingClaret]

and you have evidence that there are 50,000 women abusing immigrants coming into the country...???

They are currently in Germany
We headed of much of that influx
Although many drive Taxis round here, due to a bit of bad press they are having to stick to abusing their own women behind close doors, for a while.
Wait 5 years for the TV series on that and you can pretend to care.

[Greenmile]

Not really evidence that, is it?

[Colburn_Claret]

You do realise that Thatcher was PM (and had been for some time) 30 years ago, don't you? Surely you're not suggesting JC would be anything like she was.

Ok, 44 years, does that make you happier. It doesn't change the fact that Jeremys' Communism, would lead to everyone sharing the poverty, not sharing the wealth. It's easy to spend other peoples money, but his policies would run this country down. When that happens where do you go to get some more? Better Labour leaders than him, have tried and failed. It doesn't work.
If you want to share the wealth, first create it.

[Rick_Muller]

Ok, 44 years, does that make you happier. It doesn't change the fact that Jeremys' Communism, would lead to everyone sharing the poverty, not sharing the wealth. It's easy to spend other peoples money, but his policies would run this country down. When that happens where do you go to get some more? Better Labour leaders than him, have tried and failed. It doesn't work.
If you want to share the wealth, first create it.

Thing is, the wealth has been created, and the only problem is 50% of it is shared amongst just 1% of the population, the remaining 50% is shared amongst the plebs (us)

[Greenmile]

Ok, 44 years, does that make you happier. It doesn't change the fact that Jeremys' Communism, would lead to everyone sharing the poverty, not sharing the wealth. It's easy to spend other peoples money, but his policies would run this country down. When that happens where do you go to get some more? Better Labour leaders than him, have tried and failed. It doesn't work.
If you want to share the wealth, first create it.

It does, thanks, or it satisfies the pedant in me at least.

Fair enough. Things tend to seem to be more recent than one initially thinks when making statements about x years ago. eg - it seems impossible to me that Euro 96 was over 20 years ago.

For what it's worth, I disagree with your wider point, but can't really be bothered getting into that

[tjgh25]

Not a fan of Jez himself, but i support the policies proposed in the Labour manifesto more than any other party so will vote for them. In the interests of full disclosure have voted Labour in every election before now expect for one. Never liked any of their leaders since I could vote but have supported their platform.

Not that my vote will matter as Philip Davies (Shipley) will almost certainly still be my MP and he is one of the biggest ***** the Tory party has. Shame our voting system is so broken oh well...

[joey13]

It amazes me so called Labour supporters won't vote for Corbyn yet voted for Blair

[Colburn_Claret]

It amazes me so called Labour supporters won't vote for Corbyn yet voted for Blair

Blairs mistake was getting in bed with the Americans over Iraq.
What New Labour achieved in this country, the regeneration of Industrial wastelands and docks, the building of new schools and hospitals, giving every student their own books instead of sharing dog eared out of date text books. Reducing unemployment, at the same time as introducing a minimum wage. They did a lot of good, and they did it by getting big business to embrace their responsibilities to the general public, not alienating them.
If people are looking for perfection they are destined to a life of disappointment, accepting life takes some give and take on everyones part.

As a socialist I believe in fair shares, but as a realist I know that 'squeezing the rich till they bleed', has never worked and never will.

[AndrewJB]

Blairs mistake was getting in bed with the Americans over Iraq.
What New Labour achieved in this country, the regeneration of Industrial wastelands and docks, the building of new schools and hospitals, giving every student their own books instead of sharing dog eared out of date text books. Reducing unemployment, at the same time as introducing a minimum wage. They did a lot of good, and they did it by getting big business to embrace their responsibilities to the general public, not alienating them.
If people are looking for perfection they are destined to a life of disappointment, accepting life takes some give and take on everyones part.

As a socialist I believe in fair shares, but as a realist I know that 'squeezing the rich till they bleed', has never worked and never will.

Nobody is talking about squeezing the rich till they bleed. Corbyn's tax rises on them will still leave them owing less than they did under Thatcher. And corporation tax won't even be returning to 2010 levels. If you liked what Blair was able to achieve, you'll love what Robyn is aiming at.

[AndrewJB]

Corbyn - not Robyn

[IanMcL]

Tories con the ordinary folk and then shaft them. They also kill foxes for sport. Remember that when the media work you over with the usual illusion.

[If it be your will]

.

[dsr]

Why on earth do people think schools are better under Labour? It's not as if we lived in an educational paradise 7 years ago that has all gone wrong, and it's not as if schools are short of money either - funding is vastly higher than it was in my time (1969-1982) and yet standards aren't improving.

Labour's policy has always been to attack or close the good schools in the hope that the bad schools will get better. It has never worked. Much better idea to close the bad schools and make the good ones better.

[UpTheBeehole]

You always talk about these good schools that Labour closed dsr.

Please could you provide a list?