Mistrust of media

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon May 22, 2017 9:25 pm

Kind of politics based but was wanting people's opinions on a few things.

I have always read newspapers and watched the news and never can I remember such a bias towards one party from all sides. The feeling I am getting though from social media is that because of such mistrust in how news is reported (and poss younger people believing in conspiracys) that the current 18 to mid 30s will vote en masse for Labour. Not that they like JC so much just that they really do not trust the media as it is blatantly so one sided.

I was speaking to my dad who is 65 and has always voted Labour but will actually be voting for Conservatives because of his dislike for JC. Now his only views are from watching BBC and reading the sun. I was saying how I am not really up on it all but that a hatchet job is blatantly being done on JC. There was no persuading him and when I said about things being a more level playing field online and that although neither are great JC doesnt seem like the devil/clutz he is portrayed to be.

In my opinion this election is going to be a lot closer than being reported and that disillusioned younger people will vote in numbers never seen before. Not because of their love for JC or his manifesto but more because of the press and it's false reporting.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon May 22, 2017 9:34 pm

The media switch sides pretty much everytime.

The Sun was a massive Blair supporter if I remember rightly and they've since ditched Labour.
I don't know which side they're pushing for now though.
The media tend to follow popular opinion because it sells.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon May 22, 2017 9:37 pm

Not difficult to see who the majority of the papers are backing.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon May 22, 2017 9:51 pm

And yet other people have said they're voting for Corbyn because he comes across well. They can't all be right.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:12 pm

I probably just fall into the category of 'young person' and I think the newspapers really are the pits in this country (and probably elsewhere as well but I wouldn't know). I could maybe live with the obscene levels of pro-Tory bias and the blatant, intelligence insulting way the message is delivered if that was the extent of it, however, the Sun, the Mail and the Express in particular are just embarrassing, nasty publications. The character assassination of Ed Miliband's dead father I found to be in especially poor taste but it's rare that a week goes by in which they don't print something that makes me despair a little. I think if I didn't take much of an interest in politics I would probably vote anything other than Tory just to spite the idiots who operate the aforementioned rags. Sadly though I think they do shape public opinion quite a lot, I'm fairly convinced that The Daily Mail managed to persuade my old Nan before she died that the UK had descended into post-apocalyptic ruin full of roaming gangs of thieving immigrants, cannabis addled ASBO teens and unemployed benefit cheats living in five star luxury. Bless her!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:14 pm

With May making a fool out of herself this week expect to see the attacks on Corbyn ramped up by the Mail, Sun and Telegraph etc.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Mon May 22, 2017 11:48 pm

we must be looked upon as a docile herd then if the media(who are just people) can decide what's best for us, then as a voting bloc, we obey there wishes.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:16 am

In the US they have the Washington Post and the New York Times holding a terrible person to account with some brilliant and responcible reporting. Over here we have this:

It's easy to understand why young people don't trust our newspapers. It's because they aren't trustworthy.

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:14 am

I don't know the stats but guessing fewer and fewer people rely on the daily papers as their main source of information. Their influence is over exaggerated which might explain the extreme lengths some have gone to to try and get themselves noticed.

The problem the Mail etc. have is that they carried out their character assassination on Corbyn when he became leader so they are just rehashing the same material over again. In the main, they are preaching to the converted

Generally speaking, the issues are presented in much more fair and sensible way online which enables any reasonable person to look at and understand the information available and make up their own mind.

There's still time for things to change obviously but at the moment the momentum is with Labour as their manifesto has completely wrong-footed the Tories, and has received a positive response from impartial media outlets.

The whole Tory campaign smacks of complacency. Taking the electorate for granted. Their allies in the press have resorted to scaremongering to try and cover for them and hope they can limp over the line.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue May 23, 2017 10:57 am

I'm surprised anyone still reads newspapers.
Waste of trees.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue May 23, 2017 11:26 am

Sidney1st wrote:The media switch sides pretty much everytime.

The Sun was a massive Blair supporter if I remember rightly and they've since ditched Labour.
I don't know which side they're pushing for now though.
The media tend to follow popular opinion because it sells.

The Sun has always been a Tory paper the fact they supported Blair says it all.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:15 pm

joey13 wrote:The Sun has always been a Tory paper the fact they supported Blair says it all.

The Sun only officially switched to Blair weeks before the election as well, I think they held on until it became apparent the Tories were going to get slapped and it'd ruin their claim to fame of always backing the winners.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:31 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Kind of politics based but was wanting people's opinions on a few things.

I have always read newspapers and watched the news and never can I remember such a bias towards one party from all sides. The feeling I am getting though from social media is that because of such mistrust in how news is reported (and poss younger people believing in conspiracys) that the current 18 to mid 30s will vote en masse for Labour. Not that they like JC so much just that they really do not trust the media as it is blatantly so one sided.

I was speaking to my dad who is 65 and has always voted Labour but will actually be voting for Conservatives because of his dislike for JC. Now his only views are from watching BBC and reading the sun. I was saying how I am not really up on it all but that a hatchet job is blatantly being done on JC. There was no persuading him and when I said about things being a more level playing field online and that although neither are great JC doesnt seem like the devil/clutz he is portrayed to be.

In my opinion this election is going to be a lot closer than being reported and that disillusioned younger people will vote in numbers never seen before. Not because of their love for JC or his manifesto but more because of the press and it's false reporting.

I don't think the media will have that much effect Cleveleys as very few younger voters read the print press. You're right, they are polarised but certainly not just one way.

Express - Fanciful Tories
Mail - Frightened Tories
Telegraph - Serious Tories
Sun - Football fans
Times - Just right of centre
Independent was marginally left of centre
Guardian - left/public sector/London
Mirror - Left
Morning Star - Hard Left

It's only Murdoch's papers which shift - but there is no more mistrust of the media than there has ever been. People tend to buy the papers they agree with, rather than the papers telling them what to do. That's why opinions become more entrenched.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:46 pm

Guich wrote:I don't think the media will have that much effect Cleveleys as very few younger voters read the print press. You're right, they are polarised but certainly not just one way.

Express - Fanciful Tories
Mail - Frightened Tories
Telegraph - Serious Tories
Sun - Football fans
Times - Just right of centre
Independent was marginally left of centre
Guardian - left/public sector/London
Mirror - Left
Morning Star - Hard Left

It's only Murdoch's papers which shift - but there is no more mistrust of the media than there has ever been. People tend to buy the papers they agree with, rather than the papers telling them what to do. That's why opinions become more entrenched.

I agree with all of that, but I'd argue that whilst the Sun may be bought mostly by geezers wanting transfer rumours and half naked women, it also espouses some very right wing Tory views which will no doubt be taken on board by said readers after they've finished perusing their primary motivation.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:51 pm

Blair got support because the press owners [eg - Murdoch] like to support a winner, then they can attempt to take some credit for it.

More to the point, Blair got support because his brand of Labour politics [New Labour] was very much centre ground, right of centre even, and even occupying the ground where the Tories often stand....so simplistically...Blair was effectively a Tory, and so was tolerated.

- check the ownership of the Daily Mail, Daily Express, The Sun, The London Evening Standard, The Times, The Telegraph, the Mail on Sunday, the Sunday Express, The Sun on Sunday [whatever it's called] the Sunday Times, the Sunday Telegraph..and so on - the only newspaper that regularly supports the Labour Party is the Daily Mirror.

This narrow newspaper ownership is unhealthy for democracy, you can see this all too easily in this campaign.
Corbyn has been demonised throughout as some 'communist monster' yet when he has a rally with a couple thousand people there, they love him and what he has to say.

When Labour put left of centre leaders up [that's left of centre, not left wing..not communist] the press will go for them, unremittingly - Foot, Kinnock, Brown, Miliband, and Corbyn - these people and their generally socialist ideals will never get a fair unbiased press because if their socialist programmes ever caught on, they would seriously damage the profitability and power and influence of the Media Powers and the others, including the Establishment who control real wealth and clout in this country...leaders such as I have named MUST be silenced and rubbished and insulted and parodied and lied about because they threaten the status quo...they promise change ['for the many not the few']..their ideas, plans, policies must never be allowed to catch on so these individuals will always be trashed.

This is not new and it's not complicated.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:51 pm

Maybe so Sammyboy - but they'll also be influenced by many other things - their parents, their mates, their jobs, their views on the military etc.

Sun readers, by and large are working class, many Labour voters who switched to UKIP and are coming back to Labour as well as Tory.

Until the current Labour party abandons it's belief that the working class is generally stupid, ill-informed and probably racist it will fail to connect with the North.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:53 pm

- sorry Sammyboy..you were posting yours as I was typing mine..

Well said.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:59 pm

You sum it up well hampstead! It's just sad the debate has to sink to these levels, and can't even be somewhat objective, but as you said this has always happened, and always will! I have my doubts that a Labour party that's not in the centre ground will ever get elected again whilst we have the media that we do. I believe it's that influential.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Tue May 23, 2017 1:10 pm

Newspapers are a dying breed. The only issue is that their replacement mouthpieces on social media usually spout such unsourced biased claptrap (and I mean this on both sides of any debate) they make the Sun look neutral and objective.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue May 23, 2017 1:16 pm

Guich wrote:I don't think the media will have that much effect Cleveleys as very few younger voters read the print press. You're right, they are polarised but certainly not just one way.

Express - Fanciful Tories
Mail - Frightened Tories
Telegraph - Serious Tories
Sun - Football fans
Times - Just right of centre
Independent was marginally left of centre
Guardian - left/public sector/London
Mirror - Left
Morning Star - Hard Left

It's only Murdoch's papers which shift - but there is no more mistrust of the media than there has ever been. People tend to buy the papers they agree with, rather than the papers telling them what to do. That's why opinions become more entrenched.

I don't think it works primarily in one direction or another. The 'message' goes back and forth, and reinforces itself. As said further up the thread, these newspapers are reducing themselves to irrelevancy with younger people, and doing a disservice to the remaining readers. A study by the LSE last year highlighted the media bias as 'profoundly undemocratic' - not just in pushing their agendas, but denying them information on alternative viewpoints.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue May 23, 2017 1:16 pm

Guich..13

- are you familiar with the phrase..'being economical with the truth'?

Your little summary above, runs out of steam after..

'Telegraph' - Serious Tories

Why is that?
Why have you done that?
What agenda are you on..? [like it's not obvious]

Some posts on here are complaining about mistrust and lack of honesty...you then join in on that..?

I will give your table the necessary and essential editing..

Sun - biggest circulation daily paper, right of centre and often right wing..a Tory paper.

Times - Well right of centre.

Independent was marginally left of centre..wherever they are presently they did not support Labour in last 2/3 elections.

Guardian - have vacillated in recent years between Lib Dems and Labour..small circulation.

Mirror - Left of centre..Labour.

Morning Star - Hard Left...

..not sure why you included this...half the readers of this forum will never have heard of the Morning Star....it has a daily readership of about 23..

There..your table looks a whole lot better [and honest].

The process of misinformation is alive and well with posters like you around.

MG70 · Post by **MG70** » Tue May 23, 2017 1:20 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:In the US they have the Washington Post and the New York Times holding a terrible person to account with some brilliant and responcible reporting. Over here we have this:

It's easy to understand why young people don't trust our newspapers. It's because they aren't trustworthy.

The Washington Post and New York times are anything but brilliant and responsible.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue May 23, 2017 2:07 pm

Whilst it's true that the younger generations get their news elsewhere, I still believe a lot of the older generations will read newspapers, and they're the ones that turn out in force on election day.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue May 23, 2017 2:08 pm

Rumours are that it was at a Burnley match that Alastair Campbell met the editor of the Sun and they agreed to support Blair, away at Brentford.

British newspapers, particularly the tabloids, are viewed as quite unusual overseas for their reporting style and their bias. On the other hand, our TV news is fairly unbiased, particularly compared to things like Fox News.

Newspapers do still have a fair bit of influence, there are five million or so sold every day, many read by multiple people, free newspapers on top of that ...

The Guardian had a slightly over-egged, but interesting, article on Paul Dacre. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... daily-mail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The "selection" of Theresa May by the Mail is an interesting aspect to this.

However, online news is equally biased. It may not be intentional but what you're more likely to get, even more so now with Facebook, search results influenced by previous searches, the ease of finding like-minded forums, etc is echo chambers where everything validates your existing belief because what is being presented to you has been tuned to be in line with your beliefs.

There's a whole spectrum of opinions out there but, unless you actively search for them, a lot of things you see will be reinforcing your existing bias.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue May 23, 2017 2:12 pm

That is why I follow right wingers and left wingers on twitter. I need to be reminded that there is a balance between both.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue May 23, 2017 3:15 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:Guich..13

- are you familiar with the phrase..'being economical with the truth'?

Your little summary above, runs out of steam after..

'Telegraph' - Serious Tories

Why is that?
Why have you done that?
What agenda are you on..? [like it's not obvious]

Some posts on here are complaining about mistrust and lack of honesty...you then join in on that..?

I will give your table the necessary and essential editing..

Sun - biggest circulation daily paper, right of centre and often right wing..a Tory paper.

Times - Well right of centre.

Independent was marginally left of centre..wherever they are presently they did not support Labour in last 2/3 elections.

Guardian - have vacillated in recent years between Lib Dems and Labour..small circulation.

Mirror - Left of centre..Labour.

Morning Star - Hard Left... ..not sure why you included this...half the readers of this forum will never have heard of the Morning Star....it has a daily readership of about 23..

There..your table looks a whole lot better [and honest].

The process of misinformation is alive and well with posters like you around.

Oh come on Hampstead - misinformation is an easy art. Your own list of right wing organs is much longer because you duplicate each daily with its Sunday

I didn't realise I have an agenda, and if you took a guess at the way I've voted in the past I suspect you'll be wide of the mark.

My problem is, having written for both your 'right wing' and 'left wing' media in the past, that people seem to think that the electorate is not bright enough to make up it's own mind up. Granted some people aren't. But politicos and their loyal supporters should look at themselves before blaming anyone else for their lack of popularity.

I have never really liked the Tories, but, and I've said this before, as a long-time labour voter and a remain voter, the staggering arrogance of a good number of those on the losing sides in the last two elections has alienated the very people they're trying to influence.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue May 23, 2017 5:13 pm

Fair enough Guich, but if you are innocent of 'misinformation', then just 2 questions..

1] The Sun newspaper...this has the biggest circulation...3 million a day in 2010, now just less than 2 million...but it gets passed on beyond the purchaser,.. in the factory, the office, wherever...so gets read, or is looked at by about 8 million people a day.
Therefore it clearly has the ability to influence public opinion in the run-up to an election [as it always does]...have you seen it's front pages in the last three weeks? It is pretty clear who the Sun [owned by the Australian/American Rupert Murdoch] in this coming election, is supporting.

Why then did you just describe it as..[a newspaper for] 'football fans' ? It is way more than that.

2] The Morning Star..it is a paper of the hard left and read by UK Communists for sure...it's daily circulation in the UK is 10,000 !
It is irrelevant...so not sure why you mentioned it.

On the most recent newspaper circulation lists which I have linked below, the Morning Star does not even get a mention, its readership is so puny.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... irculation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue May 23, 2017 5:58 pm

Guich - I'm not one to think my fellow citizens are stupid or lesser, but there can be no doubt that a lot of people have been persuaded to vote against their own best interests (and not just here but around the world). And media sources (again, around the world), have been instrumental in pushing public opinion toward a 'desired result' Often this has been associated with what might be called negative campaigning. And almost always the newspaper takes the side of the political party that best represents the interests of the owner of the newspaper (who is a very rich person). So given all of this I can understand the feelings of anger and resentment that people on the losing side express, and it has certainly bred a feeling - especially among the young - that voting is pointless. I've already said I won't cast aspersions on fellow citizens who vote differently to me, but those media magnates can feast on my excrement for playing on the good faith of those who read their papers.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue May 23, 2017 6:20 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Guich - I'm not one to think my fellow citizens are stupid or lesser, but there can be no doubt that a lot of people have been persuaded to vote against their own best interests (and not just here but around the world). And media sources (again, around the world), have been instrumental in pushing public opinion toward a 'desired result' Often this has been associated with what might be called negative campaigning. And almost always the newspaper takes the side of the political party that best represents the interests of the owner of the newspaper (who is a very rich person). So given all of this I can understand the feelings of anger and resentment that people on the losing side express, and it has certainly bred a feeling - especially among the young - that voting is pointless. I've already said I won't cast aspersions on fellow citizens who vote differently to me, but those media magnates can feast on my excrement for playing on the good faith of those who read their papers.

Of course there's doubt that they're voting against their best interests. You can say with certainty that the earth is round and circles the sun; but you can't say with certainty that Labour is best. You may have no doubt, but others do.

Anyway, have you a suggestion that will stop these people from buying and reading what they want to read?

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue May 23, 2017 7:45 pm

dsr wrote:Of course there's doubt that they're voting against their best interests. You can say with certainty that the earth is round and circles the sun; but you can't say with certainty that Labour is best. You may have no doubt, but others do.

Anyway, have you a suggestion that will stop these people from buying and reading what they want to read?

All over the world people have voted against their own best interests - as I said. And in this country it has been by voting Labour too. My point is that rich newspaper owners will push the support of their readers in the direction of the party that looks after the interests of the rich newspaper owners - which is not always in line with the interests of the readership.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Wed May 24, 2017 7:34 am

Morning Hampstead and Andrew,

Hands up...my intention was to highlight (maybe clumsily) that the press is by no means one way; to add balance.

I daren't get into the BBC argument

.

So I agree Murdoch has too much influence, as Peter Mandelson famously illustrated, spitting the 'C' word when Murdoch switched sides in 2010.

Ands I believe every voter should have the chance to make their own mind up. I've probably been a little influenced by the avalanche of political propaganda that my kids are subjected to at school. Football cards banned because there are no women players in them etc. It seems to be very one-sided. I'm against anyone trying to bully/influence/shame anyone into voting a certain way. Particularly kids.

On that, I guess, we agree.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed May 24, 2017 7:52 am

Guich wrote: the avalanche of political propaganda that my kids are subjected to at school.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:40 am

You haven't met our headmistress IT, or luckily for you, read one of her 'newsletters'...

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed May 24, 2017 4:46 pm

joey13 wrote:The Sun has always been a Tory paper the fact they supported Blair says it all.

It's lost on most people Joey that the Labour Party was run by a branch, mainly Scottish, of Tories whose best route to power was achieved by a parasitic ride on a party with a historically large and faithful support. Just call it 'New'
Job done.
Stripped of its middle and so enter the Left and Lunacy & union power re emerges

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed May 24, 2017 4:57 pm

The Press have less effect on this election than they think.
As on Brexit The silent majority are simply ****** off with immigration

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Wed May 24, 2017 10:53 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:The Press have less effect on this election than they think.
As on Brexit The silent majority are simply ****** off with immigration

How did so many people end up feeling angry about immigration? Could it be the daily negative stories in papers like the Sun, and Mail?

We all know that immigration isn't a straightforward 'good / bad' issue. Nobody wants to send home all the nurses and doctors we have working hard in our NHS. In fact it has been shown many times that immigrants add billions to our economy. What people are angry about is the strain on our schools, hospitals, jobs and housing. And that is because the government has cut funding through austerity. Newspapers haven't talked about this though, but blamed immigrants instead. Now do you still think newspapers don't affect the way people think?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu May 25, 2017 12:19 am

Media all afraid of the Tories, so print what they are fed by the Tory machine.

Tories shaft ordinary folk, young and old. They feed the rich. They kill foxes for sport. Don't get sucked in. They are dangerous.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu May 25, 2017 1:30 am

The strange thing is that the fewer immigrants an area has, the more concerned people are about the effect of them (even though polling doesn't include the immigrants).

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:11 am

Some people just don't like reporters.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... bs-montana" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:32 pm

AndrewJB wrote:How did so many people end up feeling angry about immigration? Could it be the daily negative stories in papers like the Sun, and Mail?

We all know that immigration isn't a straightforward 'good / bad' issue. Nobody wants to send home all the nurses and doctors we have working hard in our NHS. In fact it has been shown many times that immigrants add billions to our economy. What people are angry about is the strain on our schools, hospitals, jobs and housing. And that is because the government has cut funding through austerity. Newspapers haven't talked about this though, but blamed immigrants instead. Now do you still think newspapers don't affect the way people think?

People in this area are not angry about immigration they are angry about Muslims

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:33 pm

Take your racism elsewhere BleedingClaret