Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

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randomclaret2
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed May 24, 2017 10:09 pm

Your analysis of WW2 has left out the odd bits here and here Turtle. Like Internment for anyone even suspected of support for the enemy. Like Carpet Bombing of Germany to destroy their infrastructure and weaken the morale of their civilian populace. Like a relentless propaganda campaign to vilify the enemy and bolster domestic resolve. Like the total control of the press to ensure propaganda victory and the maintenance of morale. Like the indefinite redirection of vast swathes of industrial output to ensure their efforts were 100 % committed to the war effort.
A great many of the 'principles' and ' freedoms ' you refer to were suspended for the duration with the ultimate aim of victory over a vicious enemy. The picture of the cheery cockney milkman carrying on as normal you refer to was part of the propaganda effort. It would not have been published otherwise.
The country at that time knew action was required , not poetry recitals and virtue signalling.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed May 24, 2017 10:11 pm

How many times do we have to say that recitals of poems and such isn't a way to stop the problem, we know that, it's to collectively grieve and show togetherness.

And we were at war with Germany. A country. We're not at war with countries any more, we are fighting an unknown entity. We can't just go blanket bombing countries. It's stupid and counter productive.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by john'sroseyspecs » Wed May 24, 2017 10:12 pm

Could it be time to end this thread? Please. It's all been said.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed May 24, 2017 10:16 pm

I am well aware that Germany is a country, thanks. Read my post and you will see I was countering Turtle's idiotic assertion that we kept all of of our freedoms and legal norms intact in WW2 , so not to do so now would somehow be a sign of weakness and give the terrorists what they want.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by john'sroseyspecs » Wed May 24, 2017 10:24 pm

If your post is not about breaking news MEN then start another thread. Sorry to be arsey, but watching the news with details about the individuals who died. Trying not to cry.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed May 24, 2017 10:27 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:...Turtle's idiotic assertion that we kept all of of our freedoms and legal norms intact in WW2 ,

I made no such assertion.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed May 24, 2017 10:58 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Your analysis of WW2 has left out the odd bits here and here Turtle. Like Internment for anyone even suspected of support for the enemy. Like Carpet Bombing of Germany to destroy their infrastructure and weaken the morale of their civilian populace. Like a relentless propaganda campaign to vilify the enemy and bolster domestic resolve. Like the total control of the press to ensure propaganda victory and the maintenance of morale. Like the indefinite redirection of vast swathes of industrial output to ensure their efforts were 100 % committed to the war effort.
A great many of the 'principles' and ' freedoms ' you refer to were suspended for the duration with the ultimate aim of victory over a vicious enemy. The picture of the cheery cockney milkman carrying on as normal you refer to was part of the propaganda effort. It would not have been published otherwise.
The country at that time knew action was required , not poetry recitals and virtue signalling.

Yeah, it took an actual war during which 60,000 civilians here were killed for us to abandon our principles yet some people want to do it because one guy blew himself up and took 22 people with him.

Our freedoms survived WW2 because there was a clear starting point and an ending point. That doesn't excuse the abandoning of them but i think it's important to understand why they survived. And it's important to remember that the very existance of this country was under serious and immediate threat. That obviously isn't the case when it comes to ISIS.

I have explained in the past why i think giving away these freedoms is exactly what the likes of ISIS wants, why they want it and why it'll make things much worse, but apparently that doesn't bother you and that's fine. Whatever. But i'd like you to explain to me how we go about getting these freedoms back once we've given them up. When can i expect to be safe from having someone like you reporting my name to the police simply because you don't like me, and having me interned simply for being "suspected of support for the enemy"? Or when can i go on holiday again without having to worry that because a country i visited was a Muslim on that i might not be allowed back home? Will it be when we win? If so then what does victory over terrorism look like, and how will we know we've acheived it?

These people who blow themselves up aren't a threat to our freedoms. It's people like you that will hand this country over to the authoritarians and i'm far more frightened by your ideas than their bombs.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed May 24, 2017 11:09 pm

You don't know the first thing about me Turtle, nor my ideas. You know precisely nothing about my life experience nor indeed my personal experience of 2 nights ago. " These people who blow themselves up " unfortunately happen to blow up children as well. Those children have no freedoms now....no freedom to grow up, to look forward, to enjoy life. Their parents will have no freedom till the day they die. People " like me" will never hand this country over to anyone. Its not in my gift , nor yours. What is a person " like me " ? You don't know. You don't know what " bothers me " or doesn't bother me.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Right_winger » Wed May 24, 2017 11:58 pm

Turtle is just a typical leftie. All full of these great ideas that seem great in theory but when it comes to the crunch they don't actually work.

This kind of view is usually taken by students who have yet to experience life or those who havent experienced any real struggle/effort in life, you know like teachers.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Right_winger » Thu May 25, 2017 12:06 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:You've done nothing to answer my questions.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Isn't that what you do regularly :roll:

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 12:10 am

Right_winger wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

Isn't that what you do regularly :roll:
Not deliberately. I sometimes miss questions or even entire posts but i don't ignore them. Nice try though.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu May 25, 2017 7:00 pm

Couple of points Turtle, just so you are in no doubt...
I don't have to " answer your questions "; who do you think you are ?
Do not dare to suggest I have " used the deaths of those kids " to do anything. If you said that to my face, it would be the last thing you ever said to me. Don't you ******* dare talk to me like that !

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu May 25, 2017 7:02 pm

FFS grow up.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu May 25, 2017 7:04 pm

Read what he has said

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by pushpinpussy » Thu May 25, 2017 7:05 pm

Imploding Turtle: You are depriving some village somewhere of an idiot.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu May 25, 2017 7:12 pm

"There is no limit to the number of terrorists I'd rather commit atrocities than have us abandon the principle of human rights."

Imploding Turtle January 2017 on Trump's ban thread

So there we have it. Turtles Head would see the awful tragedy that happened at the Arena, over and over again.

Turtles Head. You are one sick mother *******

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretAndJew » Thu May 25, 2017 7:24 pm

Violence is cool
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu May 25, 2017 7:25 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Violence is cool
So is insinuating random posters get enjoyment out of dead kids.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 7:26 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Couple of points Turtle, just so you are in no doubt...
I don't have to " answer your questions "; who do you think you are ?
Do not dare to suggest I have " used the deaths of those kids " to do anything. If you said that to my face, it would be the last thing you ever said to me. Don't you ******* dare talk to me like that !
And yet that's literally what you did. I asked you some questions as part of an adult discussion (sorry for assuming that's what you wanted) and instead of answering my question this is what you responded with:
randomclaret2 wrote:You don't know the first thing about me Turtle, nor my ideas. You know precisely nothing about my life experience nor indeed my personal experience of 2 nights ago. " These people who blow themselves up " unfortunately happen to blow up children as well. Those children have no freedoms now....no freedom to grow up, to look forward, to enjoy life. Their parents will have no freedom till the day they die. People " like me" will never hand this country over to anyone. Its not in my gift , nor yours. What is a person " like me " ? You don't know. You don't know what " bothers me " or doesn't bother me.

You literally referred to these children's deaths instead of answering perfectly reasonable questions as part of a discussion. You can get all upset about that if you like but you're the one who did it, not me.

Maybe in future you should just stick to making snaerky comments instead of having an adult conversation with me because obviously when you're faced with difficult but fair questions you react in a way that offends you when it's pointed out.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu May 25, 2017 7:30 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Said something like this the other day about me enjoying these types of attacks.

Was thinking the same myself. He'd have no teeth left if that had been face to face in that exact moment.

I quickly calmed down though and realized its just IT.
You see mate, turtles Head likes to crawl over other people's posts from yonks back. He's like a little virtue signalling, white flag waving , muslim appeasing , pedantic ant.

Well he's had a taste of his own medicine!

And he's now proven once and for all that, rather than an intellectually superior being he likes to try and portray himself as.

He's quite simply a poisoned, sick, troubled and a very basic individual.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by WadingInDeeper » Thu May 25, 2017 7:31 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote: These people who blow themselves up aren't a threat to our freedoms.
Does that include parents who are having to bury their children and will have to live with questions of why them, or what if they hadn't bought their ticket, and don't have the freedom to enjoy the joy in their child's achievements.

What about children left who have lost parents, children who will miss seeing that pride on a parents face at schools or weddings or holding their grandchild.

What about children who witnessed this and escaped physically unharmed but have to live with the scarred, and have lost the freedom to go somewhere like this without looking at everyone with suspicion.

What about children who weren't involved but are now wondering is it safe to go to an event like or parents who will now think twice.

It's slowly taking away the freedom of individuals.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretAndJew » Thu May 25, 2017 7:31 pm

I think the term enjoyment is in incorrect the. More like using these things to prove or make a point. But you'll have to ask IT for an actual clarification, cause I can't imagine he meant literally enjoy as in take pleasure.

I think there's too much disparity in views for us all, it's healthy in a way, and we are all on the same side, we just want things to be achieved via different methods. I guess that's what politics is all about when you take away the flesh of if.

Do I want innocent murder to stop? Of course. Do I want to compromise rights and morals we've spent hundreds of years shaping? No.

What's the answer? There isn't one.

I think a message board is a difficult place to discuss these matters, by which I mean, a lot is lost in translation and a whole lot more is not actually read and is just pounced on due to who wrote it.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu May 25, 2017 7:34 pm

"There is no limit to the number of terrorists I'd rather commit atrocities than have us abandon the principle of human rights." Imploding Turtle January 2017

You should be taken in for questioning.

You should be on a watch list at the very least.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 7:39 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:"There is no limit to the number of terrorists I'd rather commit atrocities than have us abandon the principle of human rights." Imploding Turtle January 2017

You should be taken in for questioning.

You should be on a watch list at the very least.

Then report me to the police for that quote. Go on. :lol:

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu May 25, 2017 7:40 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I don't think i did. There's only two people i can remember feeling like they were celebrating that this happened, Ringo is one (obviously) and the other was claretandy. If i had thought that about you then i'd have remembered and i wouldn't be insinuating it. The only thing i think you're glad about is that it was a muslim terrorist and not another kind of terrorist, because it suits your agenda. But that's not the same as being glad that it happened, although i wouldn't be surprised if that's the way you took it. You people do like to be offended by things.

Nope, not gonna bite.

*edit*

Misread that as "although I wouldn't be surprised if thats the way you look at it"

The only thing i think you're glad about is that it was a muslim terrorist and not another kind of terrorist, because it suits your agenda
Take issue with this part. I would have been surprised, and worried it would have been used to distract from the very present issue of islamic terror. Thats not the same as being glad about it being a muslims. Trust me when I say no part of this situation what so ever makes me glad in any way shape or form.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu May 25, 2017 7:51 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I don't think i did. There's only two people i can remember feeling like they were celebrating that this happened, Ringo is one (obviously) and the other was claretandy. If i had thought that about you then i'd have remembered and i wouldn't be insinuating it. The only thing i think you're glad about is that it was a muslim terrorist and not another kind of terrorist, because it suits your agenda. But that's not the same as being glad that it happened, although i wouldn't be surprised if that's the way you took it. You people do like to be offended by things.

Now you really really are over stepping the mark .

Where is your evidence that I was celebrating?

I'll give you the opportunity to crawl over my posts you sick poisoned basic individual.

I haven't posted on this thread till approximately one hour ago.

So go on, evidence sick boy.


"There is no limit to the number of terrorists I'd rather commit atrocities than have us abandon the principle of human rights. " Imploding Turtle January 2016

The more I read these words the more disturbing they sound.

Anyway sick boy. Evidence

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Blackrod » Thu May 25, 2017 7:52 pm

Mosques are going up at a rate of knots I've noticed. They get passed because of the increasing amount of Councillor sympathisers who are on the public payroll. It is only right that they are open to public scrutiny.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu May 25, 2017 7:53 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Then report me to the police for that quote. Go on. :lol:

I probably don't need to, sickness.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu May 25, 2017 7:54 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Now you really really are over stepping the mark .

Where is your evidence that I was celebrating?

I'll give you the opportunity to crawl over my posts you sick poisoned basic individual.

I haven't posted on this thread till approximately one hour ago.

So go on, evidence sick boy.


"There is no limit to the number of terrorists I'd rather commit atrocities than have us abandon the principle of human rights. " Imploding Turtle January 2016

The more I read these words the more disturbing they sound.

Anyway sick boy. Evidence
I have to be honest I find it very hard to believe anyone outside of the islamic world "celebrated" what happened the other night. I can't even imagine hardcore neo-nazis taking any kind of pleasure out of a nail bomb at a childrens pop concert.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 7:59 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I probably don't need to, sickness.

:lol: Pussy.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu May 25, 2017 8:01 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I have to be honest I find it very hard to believe anyone outside of the islamic world "celebrated" what happened the other night. I can't even imagine hardcore neo-nazis taking any kind of pleasure out of a nail bomb at a childrens pop concert.
Mate he's in a panic . I've used his technique of going back over threads and he's been hung by his own petard.

He's been outed.

I held back from posting on this thread cos I had a family connections there (alls well thank god) and it was raw.

So when the Muslim appeasement chimp even attempts at claiming bulls1t I'll give him the opportunity to make a twit of himself yet again.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu May 25, 2017 8:04 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote::lol: Pussy.
Yep

He's gone !

He has nothing left.

My work here for the evening is done.

"There is no limit to the number of terrorists I'd rather commit atrocities than have us abandon the principle of human rights." Turtles Head January 2016

Take it easy CM mate

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 8:07 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Mate he's in a panic . I've used his technique of going back over threads and he's been hung by his own petard.

He's been outed.

I held back from posting on this thread cos I had a family connections there (alls well thank god) and it was raw.

So when the Muslim appeasement chimp even attempts at claiming bulls1t I'll give him the opportunity to make a twit of himself yet again.
Muslim appeasement? So it is that you hate Muslims and not just that you hate terrorists. I think "muslims" and "terrorists" are synonyms to you.

Have you reported me to the police yet?

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Cooperclaret » Thu May 25, 2017 8:27 pm

I've just taken my two sons to lay flowers at the Fish & Chip shop in Leyland where the 8 year old little girl lived that was killed on Monday. Her mum is fighting for her life also.

It's one of the most emotional scenes I have ever seen and will stay with me for the rest of my days.

I suggest that the bickering, self important idiots on here do the same - certain posters should be truely ashamed.

Rest in peace little angel x
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 8:30 pm

Fair enough.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu May 25, 2017 8:35 pm

Cooperclaret wrote:I've just taken my two sons to lay flowers at the Fish & Chip shop in Leyland where the 8 year old little girl lived that was killed on Monday. Her mum is fighting for her life also.

It's one of the most emotional scenes I have ever seen and will stay with me for the rest of my days.

I suggest that the bickering, self important idiots on here do the same - certain posters should be truely ashamed.

Rest in peace little angel x
When I think about what happened and why I feel nothing but anger.

But when I hear about the personal stories like this I just feel sadness and utter despair.

How has our society come to this?
Last edited by ClaretMoffitt on Thu May 25, 2017 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by 1968claret » Thu May 25, 2017 8:38 pm

Beat me to it Cooper.
I work in Manchester and some of my team have been personally affected by this tragedy. Was at the impromptu memorial in St Anne's square yesterday. Very moving and emotional.
Log in to Utc and visit this thread. Out of 300+ posts I would say nearly half are a small number of people bickering and trying to score points against each other.

Pathetic

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 8:50 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:When I think about what happened and why I feel nothing but anger.

But when I hear about the personal stories like this I just feel sadness and utter despair.

How has our society come to this?

What do you mean by "How has our society come to this?" This was the act of a madman. Society didn't do this.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu May 25, 2017 8:53 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What do you mean by "How has our society come to this?" This was the act of a madman. Society didn't do this.
Do you really want to start this again?

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 9:01 pm

You're the one who asked the question. I'm just trying to understand it.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu May 25, 2017 9:06 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You're the one who asked the question. I'm just trying to understand it.
I could elaborate but I don't want to anymore, certainly not on this thread.

Coopers comment has just reaffirmed to me how futile and pathetic bickering and arguing over these points on this thread really is.
Last edited by ClaretMoffitt on Thu May 25, 2017 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 9:14 pm

Ok, that's fine. But trying to understand your point of view isn't bickering or arguing. Answer it in the Hopkins thread instead of this one.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu May 25, 2017 9:18 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Ok, that's fine. But trying to understand your point of view isn't bickering or arguing. Answer it in the Hopkins thread instead of this one.
Perhaps not but I fear it could develop into tit for tat and I think this thread has now evolved from that.

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 9:32 pm

Which of my posts are beyond the pale? I'm genuinely curious, which ones?

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu May 25, 2017 9:48 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:The dead and the injured and their families deserve our respect at this time and I won't be answering your question, or engaging with you again.
If you can't engage in a perfectly civil discussion while simultaneously respecting the dead then that's your problem. But don't use them to avoid answering a question you can't be bothered to answer because that qould be beyond the pale.

If you want to come here and accuse me of something that's fine and we can talk about it like adults, but don't hide behind dead kids when i ask you to back your accusation up.

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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri May 26, 2017 12:32 am

hampsteadclaret wrote:The dead and the injured and their families deserve our respect at this time and I won't be answering your question, or engaging with you again.
He is one sick sick attention seeking egotist. A deeply troubled individual.
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COYC73
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by COYC73 » Fri May 26, 2017 5:07 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:He is one sick sick attention seeking egotist. A deeply troubled individual.
I've just been reading through some of this stuff....and you need to use the block button mate if there is one I know I will be doing....! There is no point in even engaging with fuckups like this Imploding Turtle pr1ck! People like him are toxic....he's the sort that gets off on any and all attention! He's not worth it! Get him blocked ;)

COYC73
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by COYC73 » Fri May 26, 2017 5:09 am

Ps the attention seeker will actually like my above post....watch and see ;)
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RingoMcCartney
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri May 26, 2017 8:41 am

COYC73 wrote:I've just been reading through some of this stuff....and you need to use the block button mate if there is one I know I will be doing....! There is no point in even engaging with fuckups like this Imploding Turtle pr1ck! People like him are toxic....he's the sort that gets off on any and all attention! He's not worth it! Get him blocked ;)

I didn't comment on this thread till last night. Yet the sick mother f***** implies I got off on the tragedy.

I had about half an hour of pure panic on Monday night, horrendous. But it turned out fine. But God knows what less fortunate families went through and are still going through.

I'll tell you what if he tried saying it face to face he wouldn't get to the end of the sentence.

He's a very corrosive and ghoulish specimen.
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Chobulous
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Re: Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

Post by Chobulous » Fri May 26, 2017 9:59 am

Just blocked him myself, no point in putting up with this gobshite anymore.
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