Breaking News Manchester Evening News Arena Explosions

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:04 pm

What is "a long of kids"???

Just asking so I know whether to be offended or not.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:06 pm

fidelcastro wrote:What is "a long of kids"???

Just asking so I know whether to be offended or not.

It's auto correct for" a lot of kids". I refuse to correct it.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:07 pm

fidelcastro wrote:What is "a long of kids"???

Just asking so I know whether to be offended or not.

That made me giggle.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:09 pm

Some of the bodies are so badly mutilated they are in bits. They have to do DNA checks they are so bad. I think that explains the delay. Terrible.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:10 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:That made me giggle.

Yes, well, I've been accused of being offended on other peoples' behalf, by posters on here of both a right and left wing persuasion in the past, so I thought it best to ask old turtle to clarify his remark... as it turns out, it wasn't even worth posting.

Cooperclaret · Post by **Cooperclaret** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:14 pm

Is that stupid turtle the new KBRFC ?

Obviously should be ashamed of your comments on here tonight and every night you heartless prick.

A City, country is grieving and you make this thread about you. Despicable - Tony, you can ban me again after that dick h ead reads this.

My heart goes out to the victims of these ****.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:25 pm

Cooperclaret wrote:Is that stupid turtle the new KBRFC ?

Obviously should be ashamed of your comments on here tonight and every night you heartless prick.

A City, country is grieving and you make this thread about you. Despicable - Tony, you can ban me again after that dick h ead reads this.

My heart goes out to the victims of these ****.

Give us a clue.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:32 pm

In 1996 I stood watching police milling around a van outside the Arndale, and then hell broke loose. Never forgotten the feeling. I feel empathy for fellow clarets who were concerned for attending family members last night, and am relieved (so far) to hear all are OK

Rest In Peace those that were murdered

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:33 pm

Stop arguing on this thread please.

A great poem was read tonight at the vigil in Albert Square..

'This is the place'...by Tony Walsh..

This is well worth a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqQY329KtKs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Give us a clue.

Let me know what you've allegedly done, I've had a look and can't see it.

lrac · Post by **lrac** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:40 pm

Rip little angels.god bless .I wish the injured full recovery.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:54 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Let me know what you've allegedly done, I've had a look and can't see it.

I can't remember. But in a world where accusation is all we need I'm forced to accept whatever sanction comes my way.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue May 23, 2017 9:39 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:Stop arguing on this thread please.

A great poem was read tonight at the vigil in Albert Square..

'This is the place'...by Tony Walsh..

This is well worth a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqQY329KtKs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought this was brilliant. As someone who spent the majority of my adult life working in Manchester I have plenty of mates there and an affinity with the place, Tony Walsh couldn't have done this any better imho

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Wed May 24, 2017 10:21 am

I'm back in Manchester this morning. I'm Office Manager in a building very close to the Arena and clearly yesterday I made a call to close the office for the day. It's very quiet and subdued as you might expect. Leaving my wife and two boys this morning was as difficult as it's ever been before. It's just too close to home this time.

The more details that come out the worse it gets. The fact that only a handful of the victims have been named so far shows the amount of carnage that must be at the scene. My heart goes out to anyone impacted by this tragedy. It was a cowardly attack on the only innocent people on the planet, children. What have they done to deserve to be involved in this? Horrific and senseless.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Wed May 24, 2017 2:46 pm

The Tom Holland documentary on C4 mentioned earlier in the thread is a very good watch. It's still on catch up, I think. Chilling at times but very nuanced which is what the debate around Islam needs. His documentary on Islam a few years ago was also very good.

It's being reported that the terrorist was "gullible and short-tempered" according to classmates. Well clutch my pearls.

Sarum · Post by **Sarum** » Wed May 24, 2017 3:35 pm

Although the delay in naming victims could be due to identification issues in some cases it's also possible that names are withheld from the media for a given period to allow each family time and opportunity to contact close relatives who are away on holiday or who live abroad. Can you imagine for example being the grandparent or sister of a victim and hearing the news of their loved one dying in this appalling way via the media? That seems so unfair; we should try to put their need to know before ours, surely.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed May 24, 2017 4:27 pm

The " gullible and short tempered " stuff is part of the " vulnerable " picture that the media will be pushing. No doubt we will be told he was just a normal lad who loved football and doing things " normal " teenagers do, until some nebulous unknown force took a hold of him and forced him to blow up children.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed May 24, 2017 5:32 pm

All atrocities in the Uk in recent years have been followed by the powers that be and Muslim organisations lecturing and preaching respectively at the indigenous, that's what we've become, population to behave themselves not to say nasty things to People of Asian descent. Which is an acceptable request of course, It is Though delivered as if they are offsetting reprisal mosque bombings and mindless slaughter.
Secondly it is the Complete abscence of requests to the Muslim communities to take responsibility
For members of their communities actions and the reluctance of many to condemn the acts.
It is only moderate Muslim organisations that have the balls to point out this happening but they receive BBC 2 airing

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed May 24, 2017 5:50 pm

BleedingClaret wrote: Secondly it is the Complete abscence of requests to the Muslim communities to take responsibility For members of their communities actions and the reluctance of many to condemn the acts.
It is only moderate Muslim organisations that have the balls to point out this happening but they receive BBC 2 airing

Funny how people complain all the time that Muslims aren't integrating with the rest of us, but when something like this happens the same people are tripping over themselves in a hurry to remind Muslims that they are not us, that they are different to the rest of us.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Wed May 24, 2017 6:07 pm

A better clearer version of 'This is the place' by Tony Walsh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWMOl2_viYo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Choose Love

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed May 24, 2017 6:13 pm

I'm sure the poem will make all the difference.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed May 24, 2017 6:15 pm

Cynicism can be funny when used properly, but keep trying.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed May 24, 2017 6:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Funny how people complain all the time that Muslims aren't integrating with the rest of us, but when something like this happens the same people are tripping over themselves in a hurry to remind Muslims that they are not us, that they are different to the rest of us.

That makes no sense, they have no wish to integrate, they are striving for a form of self rule based on Sharia and the Koran not British Law. They wish to remain separate and they are separate in many ways, it's is their wish.
It's not their fault it's what they are and they have not sworn otherwise.
But it is a problem.
They would rather it not be pointed out before it is completely enshrined and irreversible.
My view before the atrocity and my view after the atrocity.
You as it seems are many are much more concerned about their human rights and their feelings than that of the people blown to peices, and that of their families. Luckily there are not too many of your type it just seems so cos your such a gobby tw@t on social media.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed May 24, 2017 6:21 pm

Not cynical Turtle, not funny either. Its the truth. If you think reading poems and forming your hands into a heart shape has any effect on anything whatsoever, you're even more foolish than I thought. You may have noticed that the politicians prefer armed soldiers and police around where they gather. No candles and chalked messages for them.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed May 24, 2017 6:48 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:That makes no sense, they have no wish to integrate, they are striving for a form of self rule based on Sharia and the Koran not British Law. They wish to remain separate and they are separate in many ways, it's is their wish.
It's not their fault it's what they are and they have not sworn otherwise.
But it is a problem.
They would rather it not be pointed out before it is completely enshrined and irreversible.
My view before the atrocity and my view after the atrocity.
You as it seems are many are much more concerned about their human rights and their feelings than that of the people blown to peices, and that of their families. Luckily there are not too many of your type it just seems so cos your such a gobby tw@t on social media.

Lol. You're a funny one.

"They" do follow British law. What more does anyone have to do beyond obeying the rule of law to make you feel OK about them?

Maybe your problem is that you think the Muslim community is Salmon Abedi. That's the only reason I can thin that you would have a problem with "them".

So what should the Muslim community do to integrate more, if simply obeying our laws is not enough? And are there any other kinds of people you expect more of than just following the law

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed May 24, 2017 6:56 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Not cynical Turtle, not funny either. Its the truth. If you think reading poems and forming your hands into a heart shape has any effect on anything whatsoever, you're even more foolish than I thought. You may have noticed that the politicians prefer armed soldiers and police around where they gather. No candles and chalked messages for them.

What do you think is the goal people holding hands after events like this? Do you think it's an attempt to prevent the next one, or do you think it's simply people trying to support each other and show solidarity with one another?

And if it's the latter then why don't you think it's working?

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Wed May 24, 2017 7:00 pm

Sadly Turtle there's more truth in some of Bleedings misgivings than you either wish to admit or are aware of. It's still a minority but as we've seen recently 48% is a minority.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed May 24, 2017 7:08 pm

Caballo wrote:Sadly Turtle there's more truth in some of Bleedings misgivings than you either wish to admit or are aware of. It's still a minority but as we've seen recently 48% is a minority.

I'm not going to get into what will be a pointless discussion over just how many Muslims in the UK are criminals, i'm just wanting the question of "what do they need to do beyond obey our laws?" answered.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed May 24, 2017 7:26 pm

A young woman from Whalley now very sadly confirmed to be one of the victims.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed May 24, 2017 7:53 pm

His father and brother arrested in Libya. The same Libya he got asylum from because it is not safe to live there. The same Libya the murderer kept visiting but hey liberal Britain let him keep coming back same liberal Britain that is welcoming asylum seekers from a country that people from Britain keep visiting.
Time for a massive rethink.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:13 pm

bfcjg wrote:His father and brother arrested in Libya. The same Libya he got asylum from because it is not safe to live there. The same Libya the murderer kept visiting but hey liberal Britain let him keep coming back same liberal Britain that is welcoming asylum seekers from a country that people from Britain keep visiting.
Time for a massive rethink.

So we then stop them all coming in then because of some sick fanatic?

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:18 pm

The father , who had fled Libya before Gaddafi got hold of him, and has today been arrested again in Libya, has been working at Manchester Airport.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:20 pm

I think that his family came here as refugees fleeing threats of arrest by Col.Gaddafi's troops. Given asylum, the family have travelled back and forth since the collapse of the regime. The father supposedly has some sort of official job in Tripoli. These were obviously the type of 'innocent civilians' that Cameron and Sarkozy were trying to free from tyranny.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:21 pm

Did I say anywhere stop them all ? I called for a massive rethink. The fact remains if that person had to claim asylum in the first safe country as per the Geneva convention the piece of filth he spawned would be living in a nearby Arab country and wouldn't have been offended by little children having fun. I am quite sure the relations of the affected wish his father hadn't of been given asylum thousands of miles away having passed numerous safe countries.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:22 pm

What we should do is round up all the Muslims and just put them in a massive prison that we get them to build. Close the borders and nuke all the brown people countries.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:26 pm

Silly comment. Nobody is saying that as you well know.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:30 pm

C&J that is quite a pathetic contribution and maybe sums up the left liberals ,very childish

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:32 pm

Sums up the left liberals?

At least I'm not banging on in racial undertones about getting rid of certain people who may or may not be involved with terror organisations because I'm prejudice against muslims.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:32 pm

Left liberals?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:39 pm

Racial undertones ?I think you brought Brown countries into it. What exactly are they ?

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:43 pm

I'm making a hyperbolic point about some of the things alluded to in this thread.

As in, people suggesting we so X Y and Z to Muslims because they refuse to "fit in" to "western ideology".

There's clear xenophobia on here, prejudice and even racism.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:50 pm

Bfcjg has a valid point.

If anyone thinks that posting a few "solidarity" messages and fotos on social media is gonna help, then they are seriously deluded. Nice poem from Tony Walsh. But it won't win the war against terror.

Chelsea cancel. Take that cancel. Ariana cancels. Yeah it's all about respect for those that lost their lives, but it has shown the terrorists that they ARE having an effect. Big mistake.

We need to fight them properly. There isn't a country in the world who would condemn us this week for wiping out entire grid squares where IS are known to be operating. Syria, northern Pakistan, Iraq, Libya etc. Why won't we do it? Cos for some strange reason, we won't fight fire with fire.

Shock and awe. Total relentless attack in their own back yard. Show them. SHOW THEM WE MEAN BUSINESS, or continue to suffer this week again and again.

Leave the country for jihad abroad? Then you and your entire British based family are deported. No ifs, no buts, they are all gone. Say it. Mean it. Do it.

At the moment we have all sorts of people on the streets walking round who have actually taken human life in the most barbaric ways. I mean civilians, not soldiers who have done so in the most controlled and disciplined of situations. People have a taste for extreme violence that they have acquired abroad whilst representing a brutal and cruel regime, and they are amongst us because we have failed to act positively and decisively. We are seen as weak for a very good reason. We ARE weak.

RIP to all those murdered, and my thoughts and prayers to their families and friends.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:52 pm

You cannot avoid the fact that these terrorists are Muslims expressing a version of Islam that detests Western liberal values. They are UK citizens yet hate our values so much they kill. Nobody on here has said they hate Muslims what we are saying is we hate Muslim terrorists as no doubt the vast majority of Muslims do,maybe moreso than us as it is tarnishing their faith and unsettling them. What we need to have is an open debate about how to stop them and nothing including sticking to the Geneva convention should be ruled out. If those poor souls who drown in the Med knew they had to stay where they were or claim asylum in say Saudi or Tunisia etc they would stay put.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed May 24, 2017 8:53 pm

You want us to blanket bomb areas where IS are, without due course or diligence. Without being safe in the knowledge we might be blowing their kids to bits? That's basically doing what they do. Not doing it makes us better.

And people posting on social media is a way for them to reflect and mourn, it's not to change things,

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:00 pm

I'm sure if it was simple and easy to "wipe out entire grid squares where IS are known to be operating" we'd have done it along time ago.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:03 pm

People returning from Syria are welcomed back. We are a pathetic soft touch. Round them up, kick them out or string them up.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Even the ones who just go there to visit family?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:17 pm

bobinho wrote:Bfcjg has a valid point.

If anyone thinks that posting a few "solidarity" messages and fotos on social media is gonna help, then they are seriously deluded. Nice poem from Tony Walsh. But it won't win the war against terror.

Missing the ******* point entirely. You have to be pretty dense to think the intention of a poem is to win a ******* war.

Chelsea cancel. Take that cancel. Ariana cancels. Yeah it's all about respect for those that lost their lives, but it has shown the terrorists that they ARE having an effect. Big mistake.

I think they can see they're having by the normalisation of far-right and jingoistic ideas. Such as...

We need to fight them properly. There isn't a country in the world who would condemn us this week for wiping out entire grid squares where IS are known to be operating. Syria, northern Pakistan, Iraq, Libya etc. Why won't we do it? Cos for some strange reason, we won't fight fire with fire.

Shock and awe. Total relentless attack in their own back yard. Show them. SHOW THEM WE MEAN BUSINESS, or continue to suffer this week again and again.

...and if they didn't think they were winning already, then the willingness of so many people to punish innocent people, just because they're unfortunate enough to be related to a criminal, would leave them in no doubt that they're winning.

Leave the country for jihad abroad? Then you and your entire British based family are deported. No ifs, no buts, they are all gone. Say it. Mean it. Do it.

No we're not. You are weak. Thank **** people like you weren't around and numerous in the 30s and 40s because with people like you defending the freedoms you're willing to give away so meekly we'd have been truly ****** decades ago.

There's a picture on twitter purported to be of a milkman doing his rounds in London during the blitz, refusing to let Hitler interfere in his daily routine and way of life. But one guy straps a bomb to his back in manchester and you want throw out our principles... but it's people like me who are weak? lol. You're an embarrassment to your country.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:18 pm

Are there many people travelling from the UK to visit family in a warzone quite innocently ? This country has been a soft touch for years letting people in and pandering to them. We are now facing the consequences. Someone once predicted this.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:25 pm

randomclaret2

"The father , who had fled Libya before Gaddafi got hold of him, and has today been arrested again in Libya, has been working at Manchester Airport."

Maybe of interest:

According to Thierry Meyssan, Ramadan Abedi, father of the alleged bomber was directly involved a failed assassination attempt upon Qaddafi, for MI6. (Remember David Shayler?)

Well worth a read.

Manchester, le MI6, Al-Qaïda, Daesh et les Abedi

"According to Scotland Yard, the attack on spectators of the Ariana Grande concert at the Arena in Manchester on May 22, 2017 was committed by Salman Abedi, who fortunately found a bank card in the pocket of the shredded corpse of Terrorist ".

This attack is generally interpreted as evidence that the United Kingdom is not involved in international terrorism and, on the contrary, is a victim of it.

Salman Abedi was born in the United Kingdom to a family of Libyan immigrants. He has traveled to Libya several times in recent months, with or without his father.

The latter, with whom he lived, Ramadan Abedi, is a former officer of the Libyan intelligence services. He was specialized in monitoring the Islamist movement, but two decades later did not observe that his son had joined Daesh.

In 1992 Ramadan Abedi was returned by the British MI6 and participated in a Crown conspiracy to assassinate Muammar Gaddafi. The operation having been stolen, he was exfiltered by the MI6 and transferred to the United Kingdom where he obtained political asylum. He settled in 1999 in Whalley Range (south of Manchester) where the Libyan Islamist community of the United Kingdom resides......"

http://www.voltairenet.org/article196454.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;