Should we be allowed to scrutinise an ideology

[cloughyclaret]

Mainly because there is same tired old arguments IT. Case in point.

[lovebeingaclaret]

Well, we have religious schools all over the place so maybe you could use that to inform your thinking a little.

Clue: Apparently not.

The plot is being lost already.

My view is that all schools should be secular leaving religion to parents and their places of worship.

I am aware of religious schools. What I am saying is those schools should be secular.

[Imploding Turtle]

The plot is being lost already.

My view is that all schools should be secular leaving religion to parents and their places of worship.

I am aware of religious schools. What I am saying is those schools should be secular.

I agree that all schools should be secular, but if some parents want their kids to attend faith schools i'm fine with that too, that's none of my business as long as i dont have to pay for it.

[Sidney1st]

No, we can't. But we can stop funding the means by which parents segregate their children from others who aren't like them. If parents then want to send their kids to a Catholic school or a Muslim school then they should have to pay for it themselves.

This I fully agree with.

[ClaretMoffitt]

In answering the OP.

The simple, but honest answer is yes, it is ok; unless you are taking about Islam, then its absolutely not at all.

[morpheus2]

In answering the OP.

The simple, but honest answer is yes, it is; unless you are taking about Islam, then its absolutely not at all.

It's a great shame, but that is certainly normally the case...... maybe we can find some honest people on this forum who are not cowards and who are willing to put aside what the useful idiots and apologists have told them and instead study Islam for themselves, take the plunge down that rabbit hole, they may not like what they find though as they will soon pretty much discover that most of what they have been told about certain things 'having nothing to do with religion' is not true as it has pretty much everything to do with religion. Take away the religion (metaphorically, I'm not suggesting genocide snowflakes) and the reason for 1400 years of conquest, division, slaughter, Jew hatred, bigotry and misogyny is taken away.
The immutability of Islams texts and the forced indoctrination from birth and as others have alluded to - faith schools, makes Islam damn near impossible if not indeed completely impossible to reform. As some have already suggested, taking away state funded faith schools would be a start, but I disagree that those willing to pay should be allowed to send their children to indoctrination schools, many 'radicals' are not from poor families, in fact often the complete opposite is the case.

[Falcon]

I'm an atheist. It follows that logically I think the beliefs of all religions including Islam are a crock of shite. The free speech I enjoy in this country gives me the right to say and think whatever I want so long as it isn't illegal, just as you can. The problem is where you draw the line between fair scrutiny of a religious dogma (which is cool) and 'hate speech' (which is not cool). The moderators on this site have an obligation to draw that line somewhere but the problem you have is that where you think the line lies might be different to where the moderator would draw it. Someone deleting your post from a forum they moderate is not an abuse of your free specch, and it is not the same as you being persecuted by the police for speaking your views in a public place. It's their forum at the end of the day and it can host the content they wish. As with any website, service, club or otherwise, if you don't like it you are free to go elsewhere. (That's not me telling you to sod off by the way, just a turn of phrase)

[Lancasterclaret]

Christianity reformed within itself, not because of outside pressure and gradually became what it is today.

The key is that it was internal reform over a long period of time, along with advances in democracy, science ete etc etc

All religions change over time, and I'm sure Islam is no different.

[KRBFC]

Along come the terrorist sympathizers.

[Lancasterclaret]

There really is no limits to just how thick you can be at times KRBFC

[KRBFC]

There really is no limits to just how thick you can be at times KRBFC

At least you said "at times" and not all the time

[Lancasterclaret]

Yeah. because you make good points occasionally.

But don't get too carried away, even ablue manages that!

[ClaretMoffitt]

Yeah. because you make good points occasionally.

But don't get too carried away, even ablue manages that!

Tbh I think ablue gets more **** that he actually deserves. Granted though he's been a bit more of a nob recently.

[Blackrod]

The scumbag that blew people up attended a mosque in Moss Side where apparently many Syrian 'fighters' attended ( before returning to the UK). What the hell are they teaching in these places. I am trying to think of the last heavy Church of England or Methodist attendee who blew him or herself up.

[Wile E Coyote]

my concern is that whilst the muslim community shows solidarity with the general pupulace in the aftermath of such an atrocity, what as a collective are they searching for? Is their goal to oppose the status quo constantly until they get their way, or accept the differences .
If the latter is the case, all well and good, if not then the question remains that they will not be happy until they can become an influetntial majority then impose their beliefs on everyone else. That means in effect that they are only appearing to be reasonable because they have no other choice in a predominatly secular culture. In places where the number of followers of Islam is greater, we clearly see little in the way of tolerance towards non believers. That is frightening. So yes, we need an open debate in order to scrutinise .

[Pstotto]

Yes, there should be a massive and public scrutiny of this faith foreign to this country and from a different epoch of time. It really is stone age rubbish, which may have had its uses at the time. It's quite clearly political.

The first thing is to scrutinize the epistemology and philosophy i.e. :

1.There are no Holy words of God because there is not the mind of God to receive them unsullied by sense mediation.

2.There can only ever be a personal subjective take, so there is no 'Islam' as such, but Jo Blog's "Islam.'

3. One cannot do the work of God because only God knows what reality is. As the saying goes, 'God's work is never done.'

According to philosophy...jpg (409.87 KiB) Viewed 1975 times

[Pstotto]

I think it should be a pre-requisite of British citizenship and right of entry to the UK, that in this multi-faith secular country, one must sign a declaration that any faith one has is a personal belief only and that by entering into the UK, you must accept the civil law of the nation as being sacrosanct and also the right of others to have personal beliefs that may differ to one's particular faith.

[Wile E Coyote]

Seems extraordinary that with all the Oxbridge intellectualls we had in post war Britain, this was never considered to be an outcome by anyone.
Imagine having fought horrific world wars, the freedom it enabled us to enjoy due to that sacrifice, the liberty and democracy that came with it, and here we are in 2017 with ghettoes and segregation and mistrust and fear.

[Pstotto]

The intellectuals have let everybody down, regarding the Enlightenment and Western philosophy.

[RingoMcCartney]

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens.

This is the case in:
United States—Muslim 0..6%
Australia—Muslim 1.5%
Italy—Muslim 1.5%
China—Muslim 1.8%
Norway—Muslim 1.8%
Canada—Muslim 1.9%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

This is happening in:
Denmark—Muslim 2%
United Kingdom—Muslim 2.7%
Germany—Muslim 3.7%
Spain—Muslim 4%
Thailand—Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves—along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
Switzerland—Muslim 4.3%
Philippines—5%
Sweden—Muslim 5%
The Netherlands—Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago—Muslim 5.8
France—Muslim 8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana—Muslim 10%
Kenya—Muslim 10%
India—Muslim 13.4%
Russia—Muslim 15%
Israel—Muslim 16%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia—Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia—Muslim 40%
Chad—Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon—Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Malaysia—Muslim 60.4%
Albania—Muslim 70%
Sudan—Muslim 70%
Qatar—Muslim 77.5%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh—Muslim 83%
Indonesia—Muslim 86.1%
Syria—Muslim 90%
Tajikistan—Muslim 90%
Egypt—Muslim 90%
Jordan—Muslim 92%
United Arab Emirates—Muslim 96%
Pakistan—Muslim 97%
Iraq—Muslim 97%
Iran—Muslim 98%
Gaza—Muslim 98.7%
Morocco—Muslim 98.7%
Palestine—Muslim 99%
Turkey—Muslim 99.8%

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’—the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan—Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia—Muslim 100%
Somalia—Muslim 100%
Yemen—Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

These figures are out of date now and the behaviour of muslims has stepped up to the next level accordingly. A quick Google search shows that the Muslim population of the UK is now estimated to be 5.4%.

Anybody noticed a change recently?

[Lancasterclaret]

"Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to Ringo for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particulary glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age."

[KRBFC]

All mosques should be closed, an Islam ban in the UK should be implemented. Ban the curtain costumes and ban the Quran. Its the only way to stop this madness, I'm sorry but the minority have ruined it for the majority of peaceful Muslims.

[Bordeauxclaret]

True colours being shown now aren't they.

[CombatClaret]

All mosques should be closed, an Islam ban in the UK should be implemented. Ban the curtain costumes and ban the Quran. Its the only way to stop this madness, I'm sorry but the minority have ruined it for the majority of peaceful Muslims.

True colours being shown now aren't they.

KRBFC is just deliberately trolling and trying to inflame argument by trying to be the most outrageous, do not take anything he says on Religion, Dyche or any other subject at face value or proof of an actual opinion. He's only interested in trolling this forum.

[Wile E Coyote]

well, even though ringo's figures and findings may be mythical, it begs the question, what is acceptable ?
If people are happy to have a multi cultural society and freedoms to permit the following of any religious creed, is there no thought given to the numbers ? I am genuinley curious, because if it was the case, then it is possible that the very fabric of a society could alter significantly albeit it years down the line.

[DCWat]

No, we can't. But we can stop funding the means by which parents segregate their children from others who aren't like them. If parents then want to send their kids to a Catholic school or a Muslim school then they should have to pay for it themselves.

Only certain types of education for the wealthy?

[CombatClaret]

well, even though ringo's figures and findings may be mythical.

They also overlook all social, historical and geopolitical context to the point it's laughable.

[keith1879]

...especially one which orders its followers to convert, subjugate or kill non-followers. One which orders its followers to strike terror into the hearts of non-followers and to wage ceaseless war on non-followers until all are under its command as either followers or (those who do not convert) as third class citizens - or dead."

Well in answer to the first paragraph of the original post.

Yes we should but .......do you have solid evidence that a majority (or even a substantial minority) of the followers of any religion in Britain today actually believe such poisonous crap. Or are you purely referring to hard-core islamist doctrine which hardly needs scrutiny because almost everyone is disgusted by it?

Possibly we should also scrutinise an ideology which demands "an eye for an eye" etc etc (ie Christianity).

And no I'm not a terrorist sympathiser or even a muslim sympathiser but I would like to think that people should realise that we face a serious and complicated threat which needs more care than we have bestowed on it so far. The west's answer to 9/11 was to invade Iraq - and make things worse. We can't afford to keep making the same crass mistakes - especially when they are so completely irreversible.

I haven't a clue what we should do now and that's a fact but I suspect that doing nothing is probably safer than most of the ideas I have seen aired over the last few days.

I think the poster who argued that we have to abandon the adults and concentrate on the children probably had it right.

[Corky]

well, even though ringo's figures and findings may be mythical, it begs the question, what is acceptable ?
If people are happy to have a multi cultural society and freedoms to permit the following of any religious creed, is there no thought given to the numbers ? I am genuinley curious, because if it was the case, then it is possible that the very fabric of a society could alter significantly albeit it years down the line.

Good point and a difficult one for a liberal society to comfortably address.

Watching the news last night my wife and I saw a shot of a south Manchester market where there are meant to be large numbers of muslims of Libyan descent. My wife blurted out that if she hadn't been told it was the UK she would have struggled to guess where it was.

That is multiculturalism. People need to decide if they are comfortable with that. It is thankfully, thus far at least, something that the UK have been good at dealing with.

I believe that we need to have a true secular society. That means no established church with the Queen as head. And I know it is only titular but this does manifest itself in there being almost 30 CofE Bishops in the house of Lords which for me is nonsense.

Also agree it is a very good idea to do away with faith schools. I personally am not looking for some sort of Borg like assimilation but just a fair degree of integration.

Lots of people by all accounts want to come and live in the UK so we must be doing something right. Our society as it stands is pretty sound and as an atheist I would rather we developed as a secular liberal country whilst allowing religious tolerance.

[KRBFC]

KRBFC is just deliberately trolling and trying to inflame argument by trying to be the most outrageous, do not take anything he says on Religion, Dyche or any other subject at face value or proof of an actual opinion. He's only interested in trolling this forum.

That simply isn't true, something needs to drastically change and people like yourself need to stop making excuses for it. A ban on Islam would be a start, like I said.... Yes its the minority but they have tarnished and ruined the reputation of Islam for the majority of Muslims who are peaceful. Sometimes that can happen, the actions of a few can negatively affect others.

[DCWat]

That simply isn't true, something needs to drastically change and people like yourself need to stop making excuses for it. A ban on Islam would be a start, like I said.... Yes its the minority but they have tarnished and ruined the reputation of Islam for the majority of Muslims who are peaceful. Sometimes that can happen, the actions of a few can negatively affect others.

Well there's no denying that the actions of a minority often result in the majority being penalised. In this instance, it'd create more extremism than we have now.

I'd happily banish all religion but it's not the answer.

[KRBFC]

Well there's no denying that the actions of a minority often result in the majority being penalised. In this instance, it'd create more extremism than we have now.

I'd happily banish all religion but it's not the answer.

What is the answer? I'm struggling to suggest one. I don't know how Mosques work but id suggest supervision. Id also shut down all of the Muslim schools.

#VoteKRBFC

[BleedingClaret]

Well it depends how you go about it. Scrutiny, yes. Inciting hate, racism and violence, no.

If we join them are we free then in this country of ours to incite hate racism and violence and demand that we do not suffer from hate racism or violence as a result

[DCWat]

If an answer was so easy we wouldn't be asking the question, unfortunately.

You've not won my vote yet

[keith1879]

That simply isn't true, something needs to drastically change and people like yourself need to stop making excuses for it. A ban on Islam would be a start, like I said.... Yes its the minority but they have tarnished and ruined the reputation of Islam for the majority of Muslims who are peaceful. Sometimes that can happen, the actions of a few can negatively affect others.

I need to be careful of my words here I know. If by "a ban on Islam" you mean a ban on the teaching and practising of the Muslim faith then I feel sure that you will create 100 radical islamists for every 10 that now exist (rough figures only).

Possibly you have something more spedific in mind.

[keith1879]

for "spedific " read "specific"

[Imploding Turtle]

Only certain types of education for the wealthy?

Their lineage won't be wealthy for all that long if they send their children to schools that teach them creationism instead of science.

[Imploding Turtle]

for "spedific " read "specific"

I refuse!

[Imploding Turtle]

They also overlook all social, historical and geopolitical context to the point it's laughable.

There's also a little Muslim victim blaming going on.

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia—Muslim 40%

Ringo has absolutely zero credibility. I'm note sure why people take him seriously when he's full of **** so much of the time.

[Greenmile]

I'd say we were talking about Islam today, not Christianity 700 years ago, what do you think? I did wonder wether or not we could talk about this dangerous present day ideology without bringing other ideologies into it.....don't make me get my bingo card out already.

My bingo card was completed after your OP alone.

Of course you're allowed to scrutinise any ideology, and I agree with much of what you're saying, but what's the endgame? Banning a religion? Would that prevent these horrific acts, or just recruit more people to the cause?

[Imploding Turtle]

I'd say we were talking about Islam today, not Christianity 700 years ago, what do you think? I did wonder wether or not we could talk about this dangerous present day ideology without bringing other ideologies into it.....don't make me get my bingo card out already.

Remember, it was you that asked "Should we be allowed to scrutinise an ideology?" But now you seem to think we should only scrutinise the ideology you want us to scrutinise.

So i guess your answer would be "Yeah, but only one of them. So lets talk about Isl... wait, what are you doing? No!!! You're doing it wrong!!! Talk only about this one!" Followed by one stomped foot, crossed arms and a killer frown.

[RMutt]

I'm sure people will continue to scrutinise the ideology of all sorts of religions, Islam included. But surely the current situation is really more about politics than religion. OK religion is being used as part of the recruitment tactic to attract angry young men (and women) and it perhaps helps with the most extreme acts of terror like suicide bombings, but the root cause is the politics of the Middle East and to a fair extent the part this country has played in it. Remove the politics and I'm sure most would happily practise their religion in peace. You can introduce whatever controls you want to religion in this country but until there is a political answer in the Middle East and parts of Africa this situation is going to continue.

[boatshed bill]

I have to admit, leaving the R.A.O.B. is very difficult, threats of future repercussions and all that!

[Dazzler]

A religion where they believe that a donkey can fly someone to heaven definitely needs scrutinising.

Think about it...A ******* Donkey

[Imploding Turtle]

A religion where they believe that a donkey can fly someone to heaven definitely needs scrutinising.

Think about it...A ******* Donkey

Or a talking snake, or magic underpants. The religious are a funny lot.

[Spiral]

I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut but the West is far too cosy with Saudi Arabia. Political discourse around Islam is not only hopeless at identifying and discussing the differences between the various branches of Islam, but also lacking nuance to the extent that any disdain for Islam is usually expressed in a one-size-fits-all manner (which actually plays straight into the hands of extremists, pushing Muslims into choosing faith over country). Criticism, condemnation and calls to reform should be levelled specifically at the ultra-conservative fundamentalist Islamist movements (the movements as a whole, not only the atrocities committed in their name) birthed and exported by Saudi Arabia, but there's little chance of the govt actually doing this for obvious reasons. In a sane world there would be heavy diplomatic pressure on Saudi Arabia at the very least.

By the way, some will already be aware, but Ringo's hate-mongering post above is actually a copypasta propaganda piece that gets posted on these threads one a year or so. It isn't an independent thought. His bone idle laziness in actually informing himself kind of demonstrates my point.

[AndrewJB]

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens.

This is the case in:
United States—Muslim 0..6%
Australia—Muslim 1.5%
Italy—Muslim 1.5%
China—Muslim 1.8%
Norway—Muslim 1.8%
Canada—Muslim 1.9%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

This is happening in:
Denmark—Muslim 2%
United Kingdom—Muslim 2.7%
Germany—Muslim 3.7%
Spain—Muslim 4%
Thailand—Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves—along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
Switzerland—Muslim 4.3%
Philippines—5%
Sweden—Muslim 5%
The Netherlands—Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago—Muslim 5.8
France—Muslim 8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana—Muslim 10%
Kenya—Muslim 10%
India—Muslim 13.4%
Russia—Muslim 15%
Israel—Muslim 16%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia—Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia—Muslim 40%
Chad—Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon—Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Malaysia—Muslim 60.4%
Albania—Muslim 70%
Sudan—Muslim 70%
Qatar—Muslim 77.5%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh—Muslim 83%
Indonesia—Muslim 86.1%
Syria—Muslim 90%
Tajikistan—Muslim 90%
Egypt—Muslim 90%
Jordan—Muslim 92%
United Arab Emirates—Muslim 96%
Pakistan—Muslim 97%
Iraq—Muslim 97%
Iran—Muslim 98%
Gaza—Muslim 98.7%
Morocco—Muslim 98.7%
Palestine—Muslim 99%
Turkey—Muslim 99.8%

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’—the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan—Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia—Muslim 100%
Somalia—Muslim 100%
Yemen—Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

These figures are out of date now and the behaviour of muslims has stepped up to the next level accordingly. A quick Google search shows that the Muslim population of the UK is now estimated to be 5.4%.

Anybody noticed a change recently?

This is on par with the various 'Jews taking over the world' conspiracies from the last century.

[Imploding Turtle]

I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut but the West is far too cosy with Saudi Arabia. Political discourse around Islam is not only hopeless at identifying and discussing the differences between the various branches of Islam, but also lacking nuance to the extent that any disdain for Islam is usually expressed in a one-size-fits-all manner (which actually plays straight into the hands of extremists, pushing Muslims into choosing faith over country). Criticism, condemnation and calls to reform should be levelled specifically at the ultra-conservative fundamentalist Islamist movements (the movements as a whole, not only the atrocities committed in their name) birthed and exported by Saudi Arabia, but there's little chance of the govt actually doing this for obvious reasons. In a sane world there would be heavy diplomatic pressure on Saudi Arabia at the very least.

By the way, some will already be aware, but Ringo's hate-mongering post above is actually a copypasta propaganda piece that gets posted on these threads one a year or so. It isn't an independent thought. His bone idle laziness in actually informing himself kind of demonstrates my point.

RingoMcCartney little more than another BlueLabrador. He's full of hatred for Muslims and liberals in the same way Nazis were full of hatred for Jews and liberals. He literally thinks I should be reported to the police because i support maintaining human rights regardless of terrorist attacks, and that Nick Clegg is a traitor. He's a ******* loon

[Lancasterclaret]

There is no greater sign of this board going downhill than a perfectly good and perfectly timed Blazing Saddles quote being ignored by 99% of the contributors.

Its a sad day

[Spiral]

RingoMcCartney little more than another BlueLabrador. He's full of hatred for Muslims and liberals in the same way Nazis were full of hatred for Jews and liberals. He literally thinks I should be reported to the police because i support maintaining human rights regardless of terrorist attacks, and that Nick Clegg is a traitor. He's a ******* loon

That's actually quite ironic because Human rights granted to all Humans by Human-made laws are actually considered impure and a perversion of God's law according to fundamentalist interpretations of Islam. He'll be upset to find out he has more in common with Islamists than the liberals.