What style is required for us to survive next term?

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:38 am

You will be glad to know that this is not going to be a thesis length post.

I've just read on another thread that Jay Rod would be far better suited as a Burnley player if we played it on the deck a little bit more. That got me thinking… of course his game would be better suited to a ball playing team, but does that not mean we can try and involve a style to suit a higher calibre of player?

The question is, do we go by our tried and tested methodology, adding that little bit more quality? A little bit light Stoke did in their second season... still relying on their strengths (long diagonals and the use of Delap), whilst strengthening in other areas?

Or, do we try and adopt a new style of play, to accommodate players which are technically much better than what we currently have? This is a potentially risky strategy, but the new signings could see us through?

Or finally, is the right way to go about things, to find and evolve a style of play that falls roughly in the middle?

We all know that there is no set answer, but what do you feel will be right for Burnley this summer, ahead of that customary tricky second season in the top flight?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:52 am

We will need to play in the opposition half a bit more and take the pressure off our defence. The defence looks like it will be weaker without Keane and unless pace is added they will sit deeper inviting more pressure. Too many players love getting back on the line as it is, instead of cutting it out at source.
Adding pace at both ends is needed to push the opposition back as much as possible, it will improve us no end if we get a winger that drives the team forward rather than Boyd chasing shadows 5 yards behind the ball.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:56 am

It depends on how Dyche see's his main goals and objectives.

If success is purely to come 17th or above then the safest way is to stick to a negative boring workman like 4-4-2. We would have a great chance of survival but we would not advance any further as a club and we would be left with this dilemma every summer.

Adding quality and keeping the safe tactics is not as easy as it sounds as we've seen how Dyche has struggled to utilise his big money signings like Defour, Brady, Westwood and even Hendrick who although plays is not given the freedom and attacking license to get the best out of him

The other option is to be a bit braver and shift the balance of the team more towards attack. This could see us play a lot better football and would be the best way of establishing us as a 10th-15th club but it is a risk and I think we would be more likely to get relegated going down this route.

For me personally I hope we go 4-5-1 with a bit more fluidity and attacking intention cos as unbelievable as our achievements and results have been over the last 4 years I want to watch my team play good attacking football and to entertain me.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:14 am

I like the idea of 4-5-1, but I also like the thought of playing with two defensive midfielders in front of the back four away from home.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:21 am

I think we already have players capable of playing with the ball on the deck. A good few additions, excellent coaching and hopefully the hit and hope is a thing of the past although I fully expect we will still continuously hoof it anywhere upfield.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:26 am

I'd like to see us trying the 4-5-1 at times next season too. I quite liked it last season and we actually played some decent stuff a home with it. I'd hope we'll be seeing it in a few pre season games this summer and working on the shape of it in training, because although it brought us some decent results and performances it also looked very disjointed and lacking fluency, especially away from home.

Robbie Brady could help to provide some pace out wide, but I think we'd need to find a link man from somewhere to play where Hendrick was asked to play to really make it work. That way it become more of a 4-4-1-1 which suits us.

Overall though, I'd expect our style to continue along the lines of the 'mixed football' within the framework. I know some people don't enjoy it, but it's served us incredibly well so far, and ditching it in favour of pretty football will likely end in relegation. It's going to be tough enough next season as it is!

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:27 am

It's got to be gradual progression. I think we all want to see more 'football' but we shouldn't ditch what has served us well, altogether. I don't think Dyche will ever move completely away from using the longer ball, it's a useful approach, we just need to be able to do more with the ball as well.

Two defensive midfielders might not be bad, particularly if they are players that can really pick a forward pass, but I think we need more pace to use this effectively - it might actually help Hendrick as I think he's a far better player when he's given license to push on.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:28 am

jdrobbo wrote:I like the idea of 4-5-1, but I also like the thought of playing with two defensive midfielders in front of the back four away from home.

Dont disagree and this season i'd have liked to see us play 4-5-1 at home and a more defensive 4-4-2 away with the exception of the bottom 4 clubs where id have liked to have a had a better go at them away playing 4-5-1

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:32 am

Gangham

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:40 am

I'm glad my post got you thinking JD. In answer to your post, I think

jdrobbo wrote:Or finally, is the right way to go about things, to find and evolve a style of play that falls roughly in the middle?

Is what I'd prefer. By that I mean a mixed style of play. You have to take the opposition into account too. I'm not sure I'd like us to play the same way every game and remain predictable. I'd like us to have a few styles of play in our locker, taking into account variables such as the opposition style, opposing players, injuries, amongst other things of course.

For this to happen, we'd need players who are better technically. We don't have enough players to do that yet.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:44 am

Cool. If playing with defensive midfielders, players like Brady and JBG will be essential. In fact, I'd go as far as to put my cards on the table here.... if he stays injury free, I think JBG will be our PoTY next season.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:15 pm

What we definitely don't do is change the style that got us here dramatically, and change the personnel. We're still going to be about making the most of sub-50% possession, we're still going to defend narrow, we're still going to need someone up front with height and the ability to play with his back to goal because we're still going to go from back to front quickly in first phase

But we need to evolve, because if we don't teams will begin to find out and stifle what was a fairly simple game plan last season. Bringing in more pace at full back in the shape of Robertson reflects that we are going to need to improve our ability to get round the back of teams (we did that rarely last season). The argument for Rodriguez is that if we are going to play 4-4-2 (and we generally will if Gray stays, because that is what plays to his strength) we need a craftier link-man-come-target-man than either Vokes or Barnes. If we go 4-5-1 (which we might well if Gray goes) then the requirement is a little different and it is probably a question of prioritising someone with the pace to play deeper but get beyond Vokes from midfield (more Ings than Rodriguez, if you will). Either way, we'll need to find a way of getting runners beyond the striker(s) more than we did for most of last season.

Essentially, we need players who can fit into the current framework but who are better footballers and in some cases offer more pace. That will, over time, result in an ability to play more technically precise football because better players can do that. We've already begun the process - Westwood and Hendrick are better technicians than Jones and Marney, for example. Hopefully we will sign a wide player who is a more constructive ball player than Boyd but who won't sacrifice on defensive commitment.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:23 pm

Chelsea won the league. 3 at the back.
Arsenal won the cup. 3 at the back.
A lot of teams will go to this next season.
We may or may not be one of them.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:24 pm

jdrobbo wrote:Cool. If playing with defensive midfielders, players like Brady and JBG will be essential. In fact, I'd go as far as to put my cards on the table here.... if he stays injury free, I think JBG will be our PoTY next season.

Yeah I can see JBG being a player that could play a more passing style. As I say, we need to be able to change the way we play to be less predictable, which is obviously going to be more important in our second season up.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:25 pm

minnieclaret wrote:Chelsea won the league. 3 at the back.
Arsenal won the cup. 3 at the back.
A lot of teams will go to this next season.
We may or may not be one of them.

Look at who they had as wingbacks though.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:26 pm

Purist attritional relentlessism

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:30 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Look at who they had as wingbacks though.

Yes it's like the reason Some teams play 451 is because they've got 5 awesome attacking players and others because they need 5 midfielders to compete, same static starting formation but not the same fluid formation

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:33 pm

Hate to say it, but I would keep with the style that has served us well. What needs to change is Dyche himself and his game management. He needs to affect games far better than he does. When he improves that we should be more comfortable.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:43 pm

Evolution not revolution.

Get a stronger midfield. Retain our high fitness and add more pace where possible.

We can't start changing our entire system after one survival. We need to progress slowly like Stoke, West Brom etc.

Defour was probably 2-3 seasons too early.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:44 pm

More of the same but with a few extra players who improve the standard of our team.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:44 pm

Don't 'Hate to say it' sir: nothing wrong with that. I'd quite happily continue with more of the same IF it meant that we'd not been found out!

Cornwallclaret · Post by **Cornwallclaret** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:02 pm

The style that earns us enough points to survive again..whatever it takes. Brighton will try and play like they did in the championship but against better teams every week will struggle I reckon..it's taken the likes of Stoke and west brom a few years to establish themselves in the prem to where they are now

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:06 pm

The style that gets us 40 points or more.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:06 pm

A great team can switch how they play. I think Burnley have to play like they have but with more options, as they seemed to have been found out a bit, in the last third of the season.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:13 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:it will improve us no end if we get a winger that drives the team forward rather than Boyd chasing shadows 5 yards behind the ball.

Boyd chased a lot of shadows but they were rarely if ever 5 yards behind him.

They were 5 yards in front of him. Exactly where we wanted them.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:21 pm

A la Bayern Munich away, i.e. 4-3-2-1 and different permutations at home depending on the opposition but no doubt it`ll be 4-4-2 (1-1). A Delph type and a Rodriguez type would be grand!

Heaton (hopefully)
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Ward
NEW Westwood New/Defour (yeah, alright!)
Gudmundsson/Hendrick Brady
Gray

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:40 pm

It has to be a different style if we want to stay in the Premier league. We surprised teams in the first half of last season. As you can see from the league table of the second half of last season we were found out. If we go with the same style we are certain to be relegated.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:51 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:It has to be a different style if we want to stay in the Premier league. We surprised teams in the first half of last season. As you can see from the league table of the second half of last season we were found out. If we go with the same style we are certain to be relegated.

That doesn't work though due to the home/away ratio.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:02 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:It has to be a different style if we want to stay in the Premier league. We surprised teams in the first half of last season. As you can see from the league table of the second half of last season we were found out. If we go with the same style we are certain to be relegated.

"Certain"? Are you sure you don't mean "likely"?

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:41 pm

A winning style. I hope we retain the commitment to high levels of fitness, and the great team spirit (a given), but I agree we need to evolve to stay competitive. A player with experience in the centre of midfield - a new Joey - would be good. We're not going to overrun other teams, so a more patient style will still be necessary. Our priority will still be to stay up - and often it's harder in the second season. On the plus side, were in the top flight, so will have an easier time attracting players.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:07 am

Pstotto wrote:A great team can switch how they play. I think Burnley have to play like they have but with more options, as they seemed to have been found out a bit, in the last third of the season.

I think you've pretty much summed up my thoughts on the matter.

What style is required for us to survive next term?

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