Grammar police

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:35 pm

Grammar police. Boring question I appreciate.

When writing about a company / business / organisation do you use have or has? And do you use are or is?

In Burnley language we would say have and are but I am pretty certain this is wrong? Boring question I know but someone must know for sure and I need to clear it up ASAP.

Thanks

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:37 pm

Go and have a cuppa coco...

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:39 pm

tim_noone wrote:Go and have a cuppa coco...

HA! I am just about to have a camomile tea after this burning question has frazzled my brain at this hour!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:43 pm

Whichever sounds better. Technically, Burnley FC is singular, just one company, or one team, so it's has. Eg. Burnley FC has a better league position than Blackburn.

But when you're talking about the club or team that essentially refers to the group of players, eg. Burnley have been magnificent today, then it often sounds better with have. So in that case, use have. Go with the flow - with whichever sounds better.

Don't rely on hard and fast rules to meet all circumstances. The English language especially, to a greater degree than many others, is about communication - if what you say breaks a technical rule but sounds better than if you followed the rule, then say it your way not the technical way.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:46 pm

googled this.

https://www.thebalance.com/business-ref ... le-2062897" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

if you hit 'show full article' it refers to the business as THEY which would lean towards have and are.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:47 pm

I did it deliberately, wait for it.

'Have' when you're talking about a group of companies, either when you're talking about one.

Burnley FC and Blackburn Rovers have an intense rivalry. - Yes
Burnley FC and Blackburn Rovers has an intense rivalry. - holy fuckballs no, never. No!
Burnley FC has a rivalry with Blackburn Rovers. - yep
Burnley FC have a rivalry with Blackburn Rovers. - fine

I think this is right.

is/are

Burnley FC is better at football than Blackburn Rovers
Burnley FC and Read Utd are better at football than Blackburn Rovers.

That said if you wrote "Burnley are better than Blackburn Rovers" then i don't think you'd be pulled up on it unless grammar is, like, super-duper important, bro. Same with most companies, i assume. And with have/has. Just make sure it makes sense when read allowed.

taio · Post by **taio** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:49 pm

Has and is normally

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:50 pm

Thanks. Its for an important document so wanted to ensure it was right.

What DSR says makes sense. And how I want it to word sounds wrong even though I think its right. In all honesty it is probably OK either way. But if someone especially pedantic reviews it I would prefer the correct way if there is one.

And to think I am learning ******* Russian!!!!

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:50 pm

My grammar used to police me when she had made a cake.

She always made me share it.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:50 pm

I would always go with a Company or team being a group and therefore becoming a single entity.

So is and has.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:53 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:My grammar used to police me when she had made a cake.

She always made me share it.

The cake is a lie.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:56 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Thanks. Its for an important document so wanted to ensure it was right.

What DSR says makes sense. And how I want it to word sounds wrong even though I think its right. In all honesty it is probably OK either way. But if someone especially pedantic reviews it I would prefer the correct way if there is one.

And to think I am learning ******* Russian!!!!

Well that's different.

Just put Putin

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:59 pm

tybfc wrote:Well that's different.

Just put Putin

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:02 am

It is possible to use both, dependent on whether you are referring to the entity as a whole or to the individuals in the entity.

'Burnley is the greatest football club in the world', is correct.
'Burnley are about to sign Messi', is correct.

same with 'have' and 'has".

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:05 am

One out of two isn't bad....I can't see us getting messi!

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:06 am

FFS Wish I never asked, I will end up with a blend of both now.

We should just all speak Esperanto!!!

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:09 am

Go to dsr's post paragraph three. Keep calm drink tea.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:14 am

You need spades but she will be long asleep.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:14 am

Just read the companies mission statement that this question is for. They use a combination of both. So think that answers my question. Thanks for the help all .

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:16 am

It's company's not companies

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:16 am

We just all should speak esperanto. Should we all just speak esperanto. We should just all speak esperanto

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:31 am

Vino blanco wrote:It's company's not companies

I knew I should have just said ******* charity!

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:18 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I did it deliberately, wait for it.

'Have' when you're talking about a group of companies, either when you're talking about one.

Burnley FC and Blackburn Rovers have an intense rivalry. - Yes
Burnley FC and Blackburn Rovers has an intense rivalry. - holy fuckballs no, never. No!
Burnley FC has a rivalry with Blackburn Rovers. - yep
Burnley FC have a rivalry with Blackburn Rovers. - fine

I think this is right.

is/are

Burnley FC is better at football than Blackburn Rovers
Burnley FC and Read Utd are better at football than Blackburn Rovers.

That said if you wrote "Burnley are better than Blackburn Rovers" then i don't think you'd be pulled up on it unless grammar is, like, super-duper important, bro. Same with most companies, i assume. And with have/has. Just make sure it makes sense when read allowed.

No, that's completely wrong.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:07 am

boatshed bill wrote:No, that's completely wrong.

Your post is worthless. Improve it.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:15 am

Some good explanations have been given.
A business is singular, so look to do that as a first thought. However, the examples folk have written where are becomes appropriate are correct.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:17 am

I'm waiting on spades

....or shovels!

spadesclaret · Post by **spadesclaret** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:11 am

claretblue wrote:I'm waiting on spades

....or shovels!

Here you go - ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

As to the OP's question, the strictly pedantic answer is 'has' and 'is'. Most of the examples above have used Burnley to illustrate their answers. Think of the town of Burnley. It is one unit comprising many individuals. We say, "Burnley is a town in the north of England. It has a Premier League football club."

Now think of Burnley Football Club. It is also one unit comprising many individuals. We say, "Burnley is a football club in the north of England. It has a passionate following."

The above examples are correct and sound correct.

When we think of the team or squad we are still thinking of one unit comprising many individuals so, strictly, we should say, "Burnley has just scored the winning goal and is safe from relegation," but it just doesn't sound right (maybe because of long misuse) so we are in the habit of saying "Burnley have...and are..." This is now the acceptable norm.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:29 am

spadesclaret wrote:Here you go - ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

As to the OP's question, the strictly pedantic answer is 'has' and 'is'. Most of the examples above have used Burnley to illustrate their answers. Think of the town of Burnley. It is one unit comprising many individuals. We say, "Burnley is a town in the north of England. It has a Premier League football club."

Now think of Burnley Football Club. It is also one unit comprising many individuals. We say, "Burnley is a football club in the north of England. It has a passionate following."

The above examples are correct and sound correct.

When we think of the team or squad we are still thinking of one unit comprising many individuals so, strictly, we should say, "Burnley has just scored the winning goal and is safe from relegation," but it just doesn't sound right (maybe because of long misuse) so we are in the habit of saying "Burnley have...and are..." This is now the acceptable norm.

Thanks for that spades because I always wonder whether I should be writing such as Burnley has taken the lead rather than my preferred Burnley have taken the lead. Using have just sounds right, even though it isn't.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:56 am

You must write 100 lines today CT on how to say have or has as your punishment.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:17 am

I hate it when Americans use has in relation to sport.

Atlanta Falcons has beaten the Miami Dolphins.

Just wrong.

spadesclaret · Post by **spadesclaret** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:26 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:I hate it when Americans use has in relation to sport.

Atlanta Falcons has beaten the Miami Dolphins.

Just wrong.

It sounds wrong and is wrong because Falcons and Dolphins are both plural. However, if you add the missing word 'Club' to the titles then it becomes correct -

Atlanta Falcons Club has beaten the Miami Dolphins Club.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:37 am

On the other hand, you ask the head coach after the game how they went on, and he will always use the plural "we" - we, the Atlanta Falcons Club, have beaten them, the Miami Dolphins club ...

Just to further muddy the waters!

Sonic · Post by **Sonic** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:41 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:In Burnley language we would say have and are but I am pretty certain this is wrong?

This is not a question, why have you used a question mark? (that was a question)

I see this happening all the time these days and it drives me nuts.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:31 pm

tim_noone wrote:We just all should speak esperanto. Should we all just speak esperanto. We should just all speak esperanto

The second sentence is a question, and therefore requires a question mark at the end.

Any road up, a collective noun is singular by its very nature. However, as someone has already
stated, the vernacular very often prevails irrespective of the grammatically correct.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:38 pm

'...Burnley has just scored the winning goal and is safe from relegation, but it just doesn't sound right...'

it sounds ok to me spades!

spadesclaret · Post by **spadesclaret** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:52 pm

claretblue wrote:'...Burnley has just scored the winning goal and is safe from relegation, but it just doesn't sound right...'

it sounds ok to me spades!

Some folk are just plain awkward!

Im_not_Robbie_Blake · Post by **Im_not_Robbie_Blake** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:56 pm

http://blog.dictionary.com/collective-nouns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting - "Generally, however, in American English, collective nouns take singular verbs. In British English, collective nouns are more often treated as plurals that take plural verbs."

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:18 pm

Sonic wrote:This is not a question, why have you used a question mark? (that was a question)

I see this happening all the time these days and it drives me nuts.

Its a hybrid question statement

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:27 pm

'...Some folk are just plain awkward!...'

I meant Burnley winning and avoiding relegation...not to do wiv granma!

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:58 pm

dsr wrote:Whichever sounds better. Technically, Burnley FC is singular, just one company, or one team, so it's has. Eg. Burnley FC has a better league position than Blackburn.

But when you're talking about the club or team that essentially refers to the group of players, eg. Burnley have been magnificent today, then it often sounds better with have. So in that case, use have. Go with the flow - with whichever sounds better.

Don't rely on hard and fast rules to meet all circumstances. The English language especially, to a greater degree than many others, is about communication - if what you say breaks a technical rule but sounds better than if you followed the rule, then say it your way not the technical way.

Good answer.

You can choose what you want to stress if you are open to using both forms. For example, say you are writing a speech about how well the employees work together in the organisation - you can use "have" and "are" in that situation to stress the fact that you are talking about individuals (plural) within the business. Eg. "Clarets Ltd have the best sports and social facilities"

Conversely, if you want to stress the organisation as a single unit then use the singular forms eg. "Clarets Ltd is far superior to Venky Rovers Plc" which helps personify and create a mental image of the point.

spadesclaret · Post by **spadesclaret** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:17 pm

claretblue wrote:'...Some folk are just plain awkward!...'

I meant Burnley winning and avoiding relegation...not to do wiv granma!

Brilliant! You got me there, blue

❤