Burnley in favour of safe standing but what do you think?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:17 am

Just added a voting poll on the site to run until the end of Monday

Simple question with two potential answers - YES or NO to safe standing.

http://www.uptheclarets.com/burnley-in- ... -you-think" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:25 am

'Yes' every day of the week.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:36 am

Watching away fans this year don't we already have unsafe standing?

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:48 am

Yes, but limited. Standing behind a large bloke is not much fun for ladies, children and ablueclaret. ; )

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:52 am

I would say it would be hard to stand in front of Ablueclaret at Turf Moor as he has never been

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:55 am

Over 100 votes received so far

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:57 am

I'm in favour, but in the twenty odd years since the last terracing went at the Turf I think my legs have become less keen!. So yes, but for 'the youngsters'

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:09 am

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:12 am

I don't understand how anyone could be against it. Not all the ground would be made "safe" standing so nobody who doesn't want to stand would be forced to stand and people would have an option.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:24 am

On away games its a very simple matter to allocate all standing fans at the back
We have had issues with our allocated seats having standing fans refusing to sit down and 15 yr old stewards afraid to act.
Now when we arrive at grounds we ask to be placed near the front.Although last time we played at Newcastle some teenagers insisted on standing even though they were on the front row.
It's ironic the debate centres around Liverpool when the old Kop had no barriers hence the surging as 17000 fans ran forward and backwards.
In Burnleys case the cfs should be made standing and barriers installed to help the safety.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:26 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:In Burnleys case the cfs should be made standing and barriers installed to help the safety.

That won't happen - if standing ever does come back in, it will be rail seating and not just installing barriers on terracing. There were plenty of barriers on the old Kop at Liverpool too.

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:04 am

In regards to this rail seating idea. Does this concept mean you are designated a particular spot? I.E: Ticketed a particular rail seat? Or can you do it in a manner where shorter people, such as kids or vertically challenged individuals can take the front areas? Otherwise we're just back to square one and tall people may block people's views. Remembering the Longside and Bee Hole you had the freedom to find a suitable vantage point.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:07 am

Now reached 200 votes

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:20 am

I voted no and I'll tell you why. Never has the emasculation of the English male been more clearly demonstrated that the disablement apparatus of 'safe' standing,' from the happy terraces of yesteryear to the crippled populace of the service economy.

It's an insult.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:02 pm

It's not my thing, but my knees are knackered, but I understand why people want to see it back and I've voted yes.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:19 pm

No brainer. Absolutely in favour of it. To get rid of terracing in the first place was stupid.

Obviously the old style was no longer fit for purpose. But all it needs is modern technology, health and safety plans and limited tickets.

It works the world over and in all types of events not just football.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:22 pm

Pstotto wrote:I voted no and I'll tell you why. Never has the emasculation of the English male been more clearly demonstrated that the disablement apparatus of 'safe' standing,' from the happy terraces of yesteryear to the crippled populace of the service economy.

It's an insult.

Interesting point of view, utter ********, but interesting all the same.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:22 pm

Hadn't thought about that. The majority of Burnley supporters tend to be vertically challenged but gifted with great girth so technically we could have the six rows at the front of the JH standing and those in row 7 could be seated and still see the match.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:36 pm

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:05 pm

Gone past 300 votes now

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:11 pm

Yes from me. Genuinely interested to hear the reasons of those against it. Not for an argument, just curious to know.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:24 pm

Yes from me. Currently 91% in favour. No surprise there.

Liked your post Martin, due to your unselfish nature.

No reason this can't be done safely.

Squarepusher · Post by **Squarepusher** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:54 pm

Yes from me. I'll admit that I was sceptical about clubs being willing to pay out to convert areas of the ground for safe standing, but this does seem to be gathering pace.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:03 pm

Pstotto wrote:I voted no and I'll tell you why. Never has the emasculation of the English male been more clearly demonstrated that the disablement apparatus of 'safe' standing,' from the happy terraces of yesteryear to the crippled populace of the service economy.

It's an insult.

Anyone else read that in an "uncle bryn" accent?

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:01 pm

'FAO Claret Tony re barriers on the Kop .Went on for World Cup Match to support my country of residence at the time,Scotland and I don't recall many barriers.Of course as it was total mayhem and lots of Asti Spumamte bottles flying over us my vision was impaired.

COYC73 · Post by **COYC73** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:12 pm

YES! Um ba ba....I was gutted when they got rid of the Longside

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:00 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:'FAO Claret Tony re barriers on the Kop .Went on for World Cup Match to support my country of residence at the time,Scotland and I don't recall many barriers.Of course as it was total mayhem and lots of Asti Spumamte bottles flying over us my vision was impaired.

This was the old Kop when empty.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:00 pm

470 votes now received

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:12 pm

ClaretTony wrote:This was the old Kop when empty.

See - no barriers in there.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:15 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHdSaPt8RyA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

despite these loveable cheeky chappies. i'ed vote yes.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:51 pm

Look at the photograph of The Kop, what's your problem Bobinho and Rocketlawn chair? You're so computer graphic punch drunk and hypnotized by Sky Box with your delivery pizza that you don't know how to stand and dance around and have fun, you need disabled apparatus and your toilet, too?

There are designated areas for the disabled, it's silly making facilities for the disabled FOR EVERYONE ELSE. It really is taking the **** and you're buying into it. Do you want someone to hold your hand and wave it, when a goal is scored, too?

1968claret · Post by **1968claret** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:31 pm

Pstotto wrote:Look at the photograph of The Kop, what's your problem Bobinho and Rocketlawn chair? You're so computer graphic punch drunk and hypnotized by Sky Box with your delivery pizza that you don't know how to stand and dance around and have fun, you need disabled apparatus and your toilet, too?

There are designated areas for the disabled, it's silly making facilities for the disabled FOR EVERYONE ELSE. It really is taking the **** and you're buying into it. Do you want someone to hold your hand and wave it, when a goal is scored, too?

Jeez
You're a bundle of laughs tonight!

1963Claret · Post by **1963Claret** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:34 pm

At my advanced age I would probably have to sit down but I think there should be a choice so it's a yes from me.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:54 pm

I have no problem with standing being available but would personally prefer to sit. It would be better for (the majority of) away fans who stand anyway.

I wonder if we will ever be treated like adults and be allowed to watch a game whilst consuming alcoholic drinks.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:09 pm

Yes from me. Best way to watch football and helps atmospheres you naturally stand to sing. That said if it is to sanitised and you can't go and stand with your mates or want to move away because for example ABC stands next to you then it won't work

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:35 pm

No. Annoys the hell out of me that the lads in front of me stand at half time and prevent me and the the family from watching the kids playing at half time.

However, I wouldn't mind it in dedicated areas for people that want that.

welsbyswife · Post by **welsbyswife** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:46 pm

Steddyman wrote:No. Annoys the hell out of me that the lads in front of me stand at half time and prevent me and the the family from watching the kids playing at half time.

However, I wouldn't mind it in dedicated areas for people that want that.

Think you've missed the point completely there. The whole idea is that you could sit in your seat and wouldn't have people stood in front of you because those who want to stand would be accommodated elsewhere. Did you vote no?

Dressinggown · Post by **Dressinggown** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:03 pm

Bring back the Paddock. Those that want to do so can sit above the standing area. They thought of this over 100 years ago,

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:06 pm

With the terraces how they were there might be... More bounce to the ounce.

https://youtu.be/lK6wOG_aDl8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For you 1968!

SloughClarets · Post by **SloughClarets** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:50 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:On away games its a very simple matter to allocate all standing fans at the back

I'm pretty sure Reading do this for away games.
(OT: As much as I hate Reading as a club, they do implement some fantastic ideas. The away allocation of seating / Standing and the very popular twenty plenty campaign)

Anyway it is a huge YES from me.

Like others I struggle to comprehend why anyone would not want this.

Most of the opinions of the no voters is about someone standing in front of them etc.
One of the big positives of safe standing is that people who want to sit, can chose a seating area and not have people standing around them.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:38 am

It's a yes from me, simply because we should have a choice. The decision to ban standing was in my opinion done in haste without having been thought through properly. Another example of the establishment thinking they know best. And we all know that they don't.

Why do they allow standing at the last night of the Proms. Surely that's not safe.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:51 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:On away games its a very simple matter to allocate all standing fans at the back

Can't do that in the Premier League. Tickets have to be sold in strict orders. In the Championship, we were able to do that at grounds where we didn't sell out. Hillsborough was one good example where stewards asked supporters wishing to stand to go towards the back. It worked, more so because it is an upper tier so those at the front still had a decent view.

Superb response thanks - I'd like to say we've already had 600 votes, but it is 599.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:12 am

I'm sure those voting no', and I realise there aren't many, think that people are going to be stood in front of them? This is entirely the opposite. If there is a a reasonable sized standing area then people who want to stand will go in that area. The seating areas will then be for seated people, allowing anyone who wants to see the game to be able to do so in comfort.

The assertion that old style terracing being unsafe was partly blown out of the water with the Hillsborough inquest in recent years. I say partly because we all know some terraces were inadequately covered with decent barriers. Others, such as the Kop at Anfield in the pics above, looked very safe and well looked after. The new and improved stadia era has helped bring the H&S levels up across the board, but it's time now to allow standing officially again. Having a waist high rail and more room has to be so much safer than standing in a seated area.

Claret&Green · Post by **Claret&Green** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:19 am

I voted no for one simple reason, I don't believe that they would be safe in crowds of more than 10k ish. Human beings are like sheep and if one person starts pushing, as will happen, more will copy and one day there will be another Hillsboro type disaster. At grounds with small capacity, say under 5,000 no problem. 5k-10k capacity only with bench standing else no. Grounds like Turf Moor or bigger, absolutely no way, and anyone standing during the game should be ejected. I take my 7yr old and regularly he can't see the game coz of people standing up in the rows in front as the ball gets near the penalty area. He sees more goals on TV in the highlights than he does at games, and has said he's not sure if he wants to go back this season because of " those men who stand up in front of me" his words not mine

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:22 am

I was discussing it with someone last night on the phone. I stood up at a number of away games last season although my biggest problem was at Old Trafford when for half a game I was forced to jump up and down. It is difficult some days for me and it is made worse by the fact that I have to stand unaided when in the days of the old terracing I'd have had a barrier to lean on. Rail seating would provide that and so, even though I'd prefer to sit, standing would be made so much easier for me than it is now. And I'd love to try it, if only once or twice.

Something has to be done about the standing in seating areas, and I believe the Premier League and safety people are getting very concerned. People are going to games and can't see and there have been injuries, one at Hull last season (not involving us) when someone fell over and went over the seat in front. It caused a domino effect and there was someone much further down who suffered a broken leg I think.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:25 am

Claret&Green wrote:I voted no for one simple reason, I don't believe that they would be safe in crowds of more than 10k ish. Human beings are like sheep and if one person starts pushing, as will happen, more will copy and one day there will be another Hillsboro type disaster. At grounds with small capacity, say under 5,000 no problem. 5k-10k capacity only with bench standing else no. Grounds like Turf Moor or bigger, absolutely no way, and anyone standing during the game should be ejected. I take my 7yr old and regularly he can't see the game coz of people standing up in the rows in front as the ball gets near the penalty area. He sees more goals on TV in the highlights than he does at games, and has said he's not sure if he wants to go back this season because of " those men who stand up in front of me" his words not mine

With safe standing there couldn't be any problems with pushing. It's impossible yet that can happen now with people standing in seating areas. At Hillsborough there were too many people in one area, here it would be restricted just as seating is by allocating a standing area. And your 7 year old would be able to see because, I assume, you would take him into a seating area and not a safe standing area.

What you have posted suggests you should have clearly been voting yes.

criminalclaret · Post by **criminalclaret** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:28 am

In massive favour of this, and not because I remember "the good old days" but because I witnessed work very well over here in Ireland.

Thomond Park, Munster Rugby Ground is 25,000 capacity, 10,000 of which is terracing. It's a new stadium built in 2008.

Croke Park, Gaelic Hurling/Football Ground built mid 2000's is 82,000 capacity, 10K again is terracing.

The new €80m Gaelic ground here in Cork due to open next month is 45,000 capacity stadium with 12,000 terracing.

Terracing can be very successful done at major stadiums safely and enjoyably and it's such a great experience that really adds to the viewing.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:39 am

This pic is from Hoffenheim

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:14 am

Claret&Green wrote:I voted no for one simple reason, I don't believe that they would be safe in crowds of more than 10k ish. Human beings are like sheep and if one person starts pushing, as will happen, more will copy and one day there will be another Hillsboro type disaster. At grounds with small capacity, say under 5,000 no problem. 5k-10k capacity only with bench standing else no. Grounds like Turf Moor or bigger, absolutely no way, and anyone standing during the game should be ejected. I take my 7yr old and regularly he can't see the game coz of people standing up in the rows in front as the ball gets near the penalty area. He sees more goals on TV in the highlights than he does at games, and has said he's not sure if he wants to go back this season because of " those men who stand up in front of me" his words not mine

Claret & Green, please take a look at the picture posted above this post and explain how pushing and crushing would occur to cause "another Hillsborough"?

You get an allocated seat/space. There is a barrier behind you and a barrier in front of you. Think standing in a seated space now, but with more space and a barrier so nobody could push and shove you forwards or backwards. Also then imagine it's an option so people stand in standing areas, and if you buy a seat then you ALL sit. To be clear, because I have a feeling you don't get it, you can buy a safe standing ticket OR you can buy a seat so your grandson can sit without people standing in front.

I'm sure people think the idea is to have big sprawling terraces of old with hardly any barriers and no seating options...

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:28 am

No need for all this faffing about just keep things as they are and let people stand up, it seems safe enough to me