Burnley can't compete financially..

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:42 am

With other prem clubs, says Dyche.

Didn't see a thread on this, apologies if there is.

Thoughts?

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:45 am

You don't have any.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:47 am

Erm - no **** Sherlock.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:47 am

Well, we can with Brighton and Huddersfield, and almost can with about three or four others.

We are fairly realistic about what we are and where we are. Maybe some other clubs in the area could be too?

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:48 am

Sounds like he's preparing us for another disappointing transfer window.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:49 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Well, we can with Brighton and Huddersfield, and almost can with about three or four others.

We are fairly realistic about what we are and where we are. Maybe some other clubs in the area could be too?

You can't compete with Brighton according to Dyche. Read the LET article. Apparently their wage bill is already higher than yours before signing anyone.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:53 am

Ok, so we can almost compete with Brighton then.

Doesn't change stuff that much does it?

We are going to struggle again, and every season we stay up we will struggle.

I'm comfortable with that

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:53 am

Well we can't go about bandying around £89 million on invidual players who are over-rated if that's what you mean? That said! We can turn rejected players who cost nothing and around £1.5 million and turn them into England Internationals. So swings and roundabouts Saxoman. We can polish rough diamonds. I think your club can't afford people to polish your club reception?!

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:53 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:Sounds like he's preparing us for another disappointing transfer window.

My thoughts exactly especially after we apparently wouldn't pay the £8m asking price for Robertson which I thought was fair in today's market.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:54 am

It's operation dampen down expectations that's all.

We know we are still regarded as relegation fodder, and can only realistically beat Huddersfield for a players signature .

We can be blown out of water with fees and wages by the other 18 clubs, including the likes of Newcastle, Brighton, Bournemouth and Watford.

What will get my back up, is if we cry "Not market leaders", "won't be held to ransom" and "rich benefactors" whilst dragging deals out into August/deadline day, for then to cry again about players not "being Dyche fit" , "needing time to gel" and "learning the framework".

Can't have it both ways.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:54 am

Of course we can compete, we choose not to.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:55 am

Brighton are in a precarious finacial state.Improvements to the Amex are hitting them hard as well as crippling interest in the original monies to build it.
Don't forget they were playing in a sports centre for years and have bet the ranch on promotion.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:55 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Ok, so we can almost compete with Brighton then.

Doesn't change stuff that much does it?

We are going to struggle again, and every season we stay up we will struggle.

I'm comfortable with that

I'm only the messenger..

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:57 am

Brighton are probably the sort of club that's ripe for a foreigner coming in to 'take them to the next level'. Their fans will be all for it until it all comes crashing down.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:00 am

DCWat wrote:Brighton are probably the sort of club that's ripe for a foreigner coming in to 'take them to the next level'. Their fans will be all for it until it all comes crashing down.

Once again, according to Dyche, Brighton have a wealthy benefactor.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:03 am

So have you, Saxo. The many many millions you have received from Venky's, and are still receiving from Venky's, give you a huge competitive advantage over the other clubs in your division. (What division is that again?)

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:05 am

dsr wrote:So have you, Saxo. The many many millions you have received from Venky's, and are still receiving from Venky's, give you a huge competitive advantage over the other clubs in your division. (What division is that again?)

You know my club, and it'll always make a fair percentage of you defensive. Others, though not as many as I'd like, realise I'm just here for a chat about Burnley.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:06 am

Saxoman wrote:Once again, according to Dyche, Brighton have a wealthy benefactor.

I could be wrong but I don't think he's at the level needed for them to achieve significantly more than everyone else down at the bottom end.

Don't forget, Brighton's fans will be expecting Europe in a few years.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:08 am

DCWat wrote:I could be wrong but I don't think he's at the level needed for them to achieve significantly more than everyone else down at the bottom end.

Don't forget, Brighton's fans will be expecting Europe in a few years.

Time to come out Saxo, you're secretly a closet Burnley fan

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:08 am

If Rovers can't buy their way to the title ( where have I heard that before ) this year with their multi millionaire owners, against the likes of Rochdale, Bury, Oldham, Southend, Gillingham etc , then they really are screwed!

It's a no win, but at least they could/should add some silverware either in the league or LDV vans Dulux Lidle Trophy.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:08 am

I love us punching above our weight in this league...people don't like it

50 shades of Grey · Post by **50 shades of Grey** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:09 am

Saxo: You know my club;

yes we do, its Liverpool. Next question.

UTC

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:12 am

Not a single word on the LET article comes as a surprise, and I'm actually quite proud that the club operates properly and with financial prudence.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:15 am

Saxo, in the nicest possible way its what we do, and have done for five years.

Our club has grown in that time, and others ones have totally collapsed.

Which one would you prefer?

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:19 am

Them comments from the chairman not so long back saying there will be more money to spend on transfers and also wages hopefully this will turn out to be true

Holtyclaret · Post by **Holtyclaret** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:21 am

Little bit of light reading ref. Brightons Owner

http://uk.businessinsider.com/tony-bloo ... phy-2017-4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:21 am

I fully get the position we are in and 100% happy with it. But I don't understand why he comes out and states the obvious time after time. It sounds like an early excuse.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:25 am

He's been saying the same thing since he took over.

Its what he gets asked, so he answers it, and then tends to break our transfer record a couple of weeks later.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:30 am

There's always reality in what Sean Dyche says, but often with a healthy dose of mind games. Ever since he's been here he's talked about market leaders and got right under Leicester's, Derby's and Middlesboro's bosses' skins.

And guess what, we're on a level with Leicester and above Boro and Derby.

We spent circa £50m last season and competed, in football terms, with most in the top division.

The reality is we'll spend less than all but one top flight club but we'll probably beat nine or ten of them again.

Can anyone in the third tier compete financially with the Venkys? I honestly don't know but I bet a lot of teams beat them.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:37 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:He's been saying the same thing since he took over.

Its what he gets asked, so he answers it, and then tends to break our transfer record a couple of weeks later.

Maybe we might smash it today on robertson eh

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:37 am

We already know what our finances look like, and most of us are totally comfortable with where we are.

That said though, if we can't sanction an £8m deal for Robertson (according to reports), we're in for a very long and disappointing summer.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:40 am

As long as we are sensible I am happy with that. Its more sensible for him to see that than come out in an ever overpriced market and say we have loads to spend.

I hope we continue to grow in a sensible way. Taking gambles on the way.

17m on the likes of Maguire is not a sensible gamble. You are never going to make much on him. He may or may not be good enough to keep you up.

Young hungry unproven players are where we should be gambling. Trippier. Mee. Keane. Ings. Gray. Have served us well. Along with some players who showed promise but lost their way. See vokes. Heaton. Lowton. Etc. Finished off with some old heads who hsve been there. Like jones and barton and ward.

The core needs to be built around these older heads with some youthful exuberabce around the edges.

We dont need to spend 150m for that.

Hopefully we can get some bargain low fees like ledley and whelan complimemted by some overseas gambles.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:44 am

More replies from Nicko in answer to whether it's going to be a tricky transfer window:

"Shouldn't be. Need Keane thing sorting. Either have a decent budget or a big budget. Don't get dithering over Robertson."

https://twitter.com/reluctantnicko/stat ... 2466398209" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:50 am

Whilst it might sound like a broken record it is done purposely to send out a message to other clubs and agents that we will not be held to ransom and it isn't a free for all just because we are a PL club. Think I'm OK with that.

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:56 am

This isn't news to anybody.

On our attendance and without a benefactor (i.e, a way to cheat the real stature of your club - see Portsmouth, Blackburn Rovers, Wigan Atheltic and Bournemouth for examples of those - notice three of them went to pot after their benefactors left, the same 100% awaits Bournemouth who are barely a League One club in size) we will always be a struggler at this level.

I am absolutely fine with that, I would take 17th now which would yet again be an awesome achievement.

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:06 pm

Blackrod wrote:Whilst it might sound like a broken record it is done purposely to send out a message to other clubs and agents that we will not be held to ransom and it isn't a free for all just because we are a PL club. Think I'm OK with that.

This!

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:14 pm

You still expect circa 50m plus spent?

50 shades of Grey · Post by **50 shades of Grey** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:42 pm

Saxo: You still expect circa 50m plus spent?

Possibly will spend that much, IF we sell Keane for 20 odd million.

As has been said a zillion times on here, it not so much the signing on fee, its the wages.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:43 pm

jedi_master wrote:This isn't news to anybody.

On our attendance and without a benefactor (i.e, a way to cheat the real stature of your club - see Portsmouth, Blackburn Rovers, Wigan Atheltic and Bournemouth for examples of those - notice three of them went to pot after their benefactors left, the same 100% awaits Bournemouth who are barely a League One club in size) we will always be a struggler at this level.

I am absolutely fine with that, I would take 17th now which would yet again be an awesome achievement.

Realistically, our attendance compared to Stoke, West Brom, etc doesn't make a huge amount of difference in the big scheme of things. Another three or four million maybe, which comes out at about 3 or 4% of turnover.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:50 pm

We don't want to compete financially with clubs that are having their debts bankrolled.

Brighton don't even own the Amex or the training ground directly, Bloom has them owned/controlled by a different company, but a parent company own both businesses.
They were paying rent on both last I heard.
I don't even think matchday food/etc revenue goes directly into the clubs coffers.

They owe Bloom £180 million and counting and that's why we don't need to try and compete with them.

Huddersfield owe their owner £40 million at last count too, so again why compete with them financially when neither of them are as well run as we are off the field?

We've got Dyche, he knows what he's up too and he's heavily involved in the project.

Brighton will pot Hughton when it starts getting difficult, but he will be used to that already.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:54 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Brighton don't even own the Amex or the training ground directly, Bloom has them owned/controlled by a different company, but a parent company own both businesses..

You mean like Longside Properties owned Turf Moor and Gawthorpe?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:57 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:You mean like Longside Properties owned Turf Moor and Gawthorpe?

Yeah pretty much, but we didn't owe our owners £180 million and rising, plus I'm guessing our rent wasn't £1 million a year for both either?

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:59 pm

he is just reiterating what the vast majority of Burnley supporters know, but there are still some out there that think because we have a second season we will compete with Newcastle which is what the article was really about. It get's a bit boring really and it's just so well known we will not go mad, some clubs will spend more on a single player than we will on the whole group we bring in! It's life and we have been used to it forever, sure we would like to see a few more so called known players come in at the highest level but don't see anyone coming to Burnley from the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man U/City/Chelsea/Arsenal, Bayern M, PSG etc. unless they are youth team rejects and I am fine with that.

We know the challenge and the job that needs doing, we have the manager to make it happen even if all the supporters don't believe it the majority will support him give his track record with us, you are merely reinforcing what we know, we are a well run financially sound club and I love it as we look forward to August and another season at the big table.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:03 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Yeah pretty much, but we didn't owe our owners £180 million and rising, plus I'm guessing our rent wasn't £1 million a year for both either?

That's probably because both Turf Moor and Gawthorpe were decrepit messes when Longside Properties owned them. Tony Bloom built Brighton a state of the art stadium they fill every week, after they'd been moved along like gypsies for 10 years previous.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:12 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:That's probably because both Turf Moor and Gawthorpe were decrepit messes when Longside Properties owned them. Tony Bloom built Brighton a state of the art stadium they fill every week, after they'd been moved along like gypsies for 10 years previous.

I know all about that.
They won't be able to repay him back anytime soon, if ever.
He will end up writing it off, but he's a fan etc.

Huddersfield fans seem to think the PL money for next season will wipe all their debt, but again they aren't arsed as their owner is a fan etc

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:15 pm

I don't mind Burnley not being able to compete with Manchester City whilst Rovers struggle to compete with Salford City.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:23 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:You mean like Longside Properties owned Turf Moor and Gawthorpe?

OWNED being the operative word.

We were deep in the financial poo. We had to sell both Turf Moor and Gawthorpe to a holding company formed by the Chairman and his fiends for the money to keep paying the bills.

We hit a jackpot, not once but twice, nay, 3 times now. We played safe the first time and paid all our bills off in full, we bought back our properties and invested lots of money in upgrading them. we got relegated but then promoted straight back again.

We now owe no-one any money, own our ground, own our training ground, have improved our training ground to a level which allows us to attract players rather than appal them and a higher standard of young prospects will soon be gracing our youth teams. We are spending amounts that, to most of us who remember how things have been financially for the best part of the last 50 years, seem unbelievable! It wouldn't surprise me if Robbie Brady didn't cost more than every player we had bought in the first 125 years of our existence.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:34 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I know all about that.
They won't be able to repay him back anytime soon, if ever.
He will end up writing it off, but he's a fan etc.

Huddersfield fans seem to think the PL money for next season will wipe all their debt, but again they aren't arsed as their owner is a fan etc

All in entirely the same way that we had debts but they were to Barry Kilby and Brendan Flood, or companies owned by them.

Who provided the money to re-sign Steve Davis? Who provided the money to pay wages to Ian Wright and Paul Gascoigne?

Who paid for Chris Eagles? Ian Moore? Robbie Blake?

No Burnley fan can ever crow about what Brighton and Huddersfield have done in recent years when we punched way above our weight for years based on the money of one man at a time.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:51 pm

For a while the owners of Longside Properties were nothing to do with the club. BK sold it to a company in a tax haven (Lionbridge based in the BVI).

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:58 pm

interesting that a Blackburn fan is allowed to start threads but a Burnley one not, that says a lot about the moderators.