Defour to stay put?

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:04 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:What weakness?

I'm sure that there have been meetings but he's not Lionel Messi.

If there are ego's involved then there is only one winner.

That's definitely a management weakness then. My way or the highway went out about 40 years ago.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:01 am

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:That's basically such a pile of stinking crap. Due to all games being on live in the States, I still have it on DVR. He chases back as they get in behind down our left, he makes not one , but TWO strong tackles, the second one being where he overstretches, and comes up rubbing his thigh.

I don't have an opinion either way on Defour, but what makes me annoyed is when people blatantly bullshit to back up their opinion.

You claiming to have sat threw that game again just to write a thread is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard.
He wasn't injured he feigned it because he doesn't wanna be here.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:03 am

bumba wrote:You claiming to have sat threw that game again just to write a thread is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard.
He wasn't injured he feigned it because he doesn't wanna be here.

I see to remember him trying to shake it off, then when their full back broke he sprinted after him but about ten yards into it he just couldn't hack it and shortly came off.

No way was he feigning injury.

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:08 am

I think Cornwall Claret may be misremembering Tommy Cassidy's time with us. For instance am pretty certain that he never played against Torquay in a competitive match. He played brilliantly in 81/82. His goal at Swindon was sublime. Ok he was hardly the most mobile, but what a player at third tier level. Less effective in Div 2 the following season.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:23 am

Maybe once he has had a full pre season with us which he never got we might see a different player . Maybe defour has realised himself he will use this full pre season and get as fit has he possibly can . He could of been handed a lifeline by dyche and want to prove all the doubters wrong and show dyche and burnley what he can do

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:36 am

We've got Defour!

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:36 am

Steve1956 wrote:So Defour ...dosent want to come on....wants to come off....He's always feigning injury?, when did we actually see all this Tomfoolery from Defour,seemed to remember him warming the bench for most of the second half of the season,when he played the first half of the season,I saw we had signed a truly class footballer,and you are putting his situation down to a bad attitude? ...naw you might know a lot what goes on at the Turf,but Defour's situation has passed you by.

Completely agree with the above.

Some completely bizarre comments from one or two posters.

An outstanding player whom SD did not get the best out of last season, particularly when he decided to play him on the wing.

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:44 am

To those that question Defour's workrate, I actually thought in his early games he tried to work hard even though it's not his natural game, one that springs to mind is when he tracked a player all the way back to our left back area did some skill winning the ball. I agree it seemed to change after the West Bromwich game, but even at that game for the first 10 minutes we looked good we were passing it around and then if memory serves me right Marney gave the ball away and and they broke and scored. Defour's not blessed with pace and it showed, this prompted Dyche to look at more defensive midfielders, I think he came out with the statement "we got drunk on possession " make of that what you will, but Defour is quite clearly a player who would fit into a team that aims to retain possession. Another that springs to mind is Dyche face when he got injured at Southampton. From Defour's point of view being our most technically gifted player unless Dyche has let him know previously it must have been a massive kick in the proverbial s getting subbed all the time. I am not saying he should never have been subbed, as stated above the Premier League is a physical league and some games especially when the ball is in the air a lot quite clearly didn't suit him. To say he feigned injury is in my opinion a bit strong,one match I could feel the bang on his knee in my seat. On the other hand his type of player is too early in the journey, someone made a reference to Shaquiri at Stoke. Dyche priority was to keep us up and he thought Barton more suitable than Defour in what he offered, is Barton as technically gifted as Defour in my opinion no. Going forward it would be a massive feather in Dyche's cap if he could get the best out of Defour because if he wants to manage at a higher level he will come across the Defour type player than the Boyd and Arfield ones

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:01 am

I can't believe people are still debating Defour when it was obvious more than 6 months ago.

He's not recovered fully from injuries in the past and is half the player he was. That's still pretty good when he's on the ball but the way Dyche gets us playing unless you're 100% you're getting hooked.

As for the lines about his attitude I think it's pretty difficult for a player clearly not performing how he used to, knowing that in effect his career is coming to an inevitable end. Even more so when you're in a new country so cut him a bit of slack.

It hasn't worked out. Sh!t happens. Better scouting needed not just following up posters recommendations on a website!

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:07 am

It's well documented that Defour has previously suffered a very serious career threatening injury, no doubt this will affect his physicality. It could well be that the demands of the Premier league and particularly the Burnley way of playing took its toll on his body and he struggled to cope. To suggest that he didn't want to play and feigned injury is just nonsense.

There are certain fans that are not happy unless a player is running around non stop for 90 minutes such as George Boyd.

For me, it was clear to see that Defour is an outstanding talent who will never be a George Boyd, but clearly a far, far better player. I hope he does stay and that SD can play to his strengths because without doubt he will make things happen for us as well as being a pleasure to watch.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:09 am

Be interesting to see if he can get "Dyche fit" in the pre-season. If he can (and with his injury history its a big "if") then with a season behind him...who knows?

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:16 am

I never thought he looked particularly lazy when on the field and didn't seem to be struggling too much when generally subbed. However, I agree that his body language when on the bench wasn't the best. However, you can't expect him to be happy about it really. Some players react differently to others. He is an outstanding player though and one who can win us matches. We need to do our best to keep him and integrate him into the team. Maybe he's just the sort of player who needs to feel he is centre of attention and reacts better to an arm around the shoulder.

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:48 am

Defour fell out of favour mainly because of question marks over his fitness and Dyche perceiving him as a weaker defensively than the other options we had when we play a 4 man midfield.

Barton, Marney, Hendrick and westwood all appeared more mobile, more able to last 90 minutes and more suited to plying the role of the disciplined and dogged central midfielder, able to press before quickly getting back into formation. Defour provides something else completely, IMO something we desperately need more of, extra guile and creative vision but for a team that played most games with less of the ball than their opponents, you have to a defensively sound and very disciplined midfield.

Perhaps, as others say, with a full pre-season he may be able to adapt his game, become more disciplined and figure more when we play 442. Maybe we can adapt how we play to play a more open style than last year. Time will tell, but it's down to Defour to train hard, listen to what the manager wants from him and try to prove he can do that (and offer that creativity too). If he doesn't want to do work hard and show this then he will leave to go to a less challenging league where he can play how he wants to, no questions asked.

Hope he stays and rises to the challenge.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:52 am

bumba wrote:You claiming to have sat threw that game again just to write a thread is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard.
He wasn't injured he feigned it because he doesn't wanna be here.

Now you're just in denial.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:54 am

Dy1geo wrote:To those that question Defour's workrate, I actually thought in his early games he tried to work hard even though it's not his natural game, one that springs to mind is when he tracked a player all the way back to our left back area did some skill winning the ball. I agree it seemed to change after the West Bromwich game, but even at that game for the first 10 minutes we looked good we were passing it around and then if memory serves me right Marney gave the ball away and and they broke and scored. Defour's not blessed with pace and it showed, this prompted Dyche to look at more defensive midfielders, I think he came out with the statement "we got drunk on possession " make of that what you will, but Defour is quite clearly a player who would fit into a team that aims to retain possession. Another that springs to mind is Dyche face when he got injured at Southampton. From Defour's point of view being our most technically gifted player unless Dyche has let him know previously it must have been a massive kick in the proverbial s getting subbed all the time. I am not saying he should never have been subbed, as stated above the Premier League is a physical league and some games especially when the ball is in the air a lot quite clearly didn't suit him. To say he feigned injury is in my opinion a bit strong,one match I could feel the bang on his knee in my seat. On the other hand his type of player is too early in the journey, someone made a reference to Shaquiri at Stoke. Dyche priority was to keep us up and he thought Barton more suitable than Defour in what he offered, is Barton as technically gifted as Defour in my opinion no. Going forward it would be a massive feather in Dyche's cap if he could get the best out of Defour because if he wants to manage at a higher level he will come across the Defour type player than the Boyd and Arfield ones

Fantastic post.

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:05 am

I don't believe that defour has ever feigned an injury whilst with us. He never looked like he was happy to come off, which is a positive in many ways.

I did hear that he was ignoring Dyche's instructions from the sidelines at West Brom though, which can only erode the trust and belief in a player to do what the manager wants.

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:18 am

Not many players can score goals like his against Bristol and Hull, fantastic awareness and control for differing reasons. I don't expect him to either but it demonstrates his undoubted ability and in the right formation he can be a very effective player for us.

The problem is I don't think we are likely to be playing a style to best suit his attributes. Not a criticism of anyone just wrong place, at the wrong time, for him and the team sadly.

If he stays then he's not a bad back up at all. If he goes then I'm sure we'll learn from signing him and replace him accordingly.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:00 pm

Anyone know the win loss ratio of when he was in the starting 11 compared to when he wasn't in the starting 11?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:03 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:Anyone know the win loss ratio of when he was in the starting 11 compared to when he wasn't in the starting 11?

We only won 1 league game without Defour on the pitch - Palace away.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:14 pm

Apologies, it was just the 9 wins out of 11 he featured in.

Liverpool 2-0, played 56 minutes.1 assist.
Watford 2-0, played 83 minutes. 2 assists.
Palace 3-2, played 74 minutes.
Bournemouth 3-2, played 55 minutes
Boro 1-0, played 15 minutes. Fouled for free kick for goal.
Sunderland 4-1, played 68 minutes.
Southampton 1-0, played 74 minutes
Leicester 1-0, 34 minutes.
Stoke 1-0 57 minutes

Slurpy · Post by **Slurpy** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:16 pm

Defour has a 42% win percentage in all competitions, compared to a 10% without him (Everton home and Palace away) Key Player.

LaLigaClaret · Post by **LaLigaClaret** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:52 pm

Defour might be better this year in terms of fitness and doesn't have Joey Barton to complicate his starting chances but I wonder if his foot injury is a problem more difficult to overcome. He is a class player but does need to show a more positive appetite for the game. The Prem is much more physical than the Belgian League however we don't exactly play in a style that best suits his talents so its a bit 50/50 for me. I don't like keeping players who don't want to be at the club but there are no obvious takers for him at the right value at the moment. I think on balance we should keep him and give him a chance this season but if the right offer comes along then we should take it but we do need a replacement who has more pace, creativity and talent.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:02 pm

Why did we buy him if he doesn't fit the system? Another strange signing to add to the long list since Dyche arrived. Surely you buy players to fit into the way you want to play.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:03 pm

It seems to me as though Defour was made the scapegoat for a rotten team performance at West Brom, and never really recovered. The "not fit enough" line is a convenient excuse for Dyche to leave him out.

keith1879 · Post by **keith1879** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:54 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Apologies, it was just the 9 wins out of 11 he featured in.

Liverpool 2-0, played 56 minutes.1 assist.
Watford 2-0, played 83 minutes. 2 assists.
Palace 3-2, played 74 minutes.
Bournemouth 3-2, played 55 minutes
Boro 1-0, played 15 minutes. Fouled for free kick for goal.
Sunderland 4-1, played 68 minutes.
Southampton 1-0, played 74 minutes
Leicester 1-0, 34 minutes.
Stoke 1-0 57 minutes

Having criticized Defour in other posts I will hold my hands up and say that objective evidence like this makes me think twice. Having thought twice I still think he looks totally uninterested - and appears to believe that actually trying is beneath him. But it's difficult to argue with these stats - unless of course someone can prove that they are wrong. I would add that I have never felt that he feigns injury - just that he doesn't seem to care. And bearing in mind that he is being paid humungous sums of money to appear in front of me when I have paid money to see him I consider that to be absolutely unacceptable.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:59 pm

Even if it never works out, and I get the feeling it won't, it's been interesting to see a top class player like that turning out for us. You really can see the difference.

Probably one of those situations where you think if his attitude and fitness were better, he'd never have played for us.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:03 pm

Maybe he has bought himself one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/slredirect/ ... ame=sp_atf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:34 pm

keith1879 wrote:Having criticized Defour in other posts I will hold my hands up and say that objective evidence like this makes me think twice. Having thought twice I still think he looks totally uninterested - and appears to believe that actually trying is beneath him. But it's difficult to argue with these stats - unless of course someone can prove that they are wrong. I would add that I have never felt that he feigns injury - just that he doesn't seem to care. And bearing in mind that he is being paid humungous sums of money to appear in front of me when I have paid money to see him I consider that to be absolutely unacceptable.

Funny really, when I watch him in his pomp I think 'wow, that is worth the entrance fee'

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:36 pm

It cries out for
3-4-3. or 4-5-1, we are very static when playing 4-4-2 with the personnel we have.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:40 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Apologies, it was just the 9 wins out of 11 he featured in.

Liverpool 2-0, played 56 minutes.1 assist.
Watford 2-0, played 83 minutes. 2 assists.
Palace 3-2, played 74 minutes.
Bournemouth 3-2, played 55 minutes
Boro 1-0, played 15 minutes. Fouled for free kick for goal.
Sunderland 4-1, played 68 minutes.
Southampton 1-0, played 74 minutes
Leicester 1-0, 34 minutes.
Stoke 1-0 57 minutes

I think also we dropped points due to Defour being substituted in games to, i'm thinking of Hull at home in particularly where we were absolutely dominant until Defour was substituted, Defour actually scored a goal to put us 1-0 up and then 3 minutes later he was substituted, as soon as he went off, we lost our rhythm and allowed Hull back in to the game and they equalised.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:52 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Apologies, it was just the 9 wins out of 11 he featured in.

Liverpool 2-0, played 56 minutes.1 assist.
Watford 2-0, played 83 minutes. 2 assists.
Palace 3-2, played 74 minutes.
Bournemouth 3-2, played 55 minutes
Boro 1-0, played 15 minutes. Fouled for free kick for goal.
Sunderland 4-1, played 68 minutes.
Southampton 1-0, played 74 minutes
Leicester 1-0, 34 minutes.
Stoke 1-0 57 minutes

He only has to 'feature', for us to win.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:53 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:I think also we dropped points due to Defour being substituted in games to, i'm thinking of Hull at home in particularly where we were absolutely dominant until Defour was substituted, Defour actually scored a goal to put us 1-0 up and then 3 minutes later he was substituted, as soon as he went off, we lost our rhythm and allowed Hull back in to the game and they equalised.

We collapsed at home to Bournemouth when Defour left the pitch.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:59 pm

KRBFC wrote: We collapsed at home to Bournemouth when Defour left the pitch.

Is that the game we won 3-2 when Bournemouth scored their second in injury time?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:10 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Is that the game we won 3-2 when Bournemouth scored their second in injury time?

Yeah that game, we lost our shape completely.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:12 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah that game, we lost our shape completely.

Are you not thinking of Palace?

Bournemouth was when Dyche made the early double sub of Gray and Barnes which allowed us to get a grip when they looked like they'd equalise fairly quickly after the break.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:20 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Are you not thinking of Palace?

Bournemouth was when Dyche made the early double sub of Gray and Barnes which allowed us to get a grip when they looked like they'd equalise fairly quickly after the break.

Could be yeah I may have got mixed up.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:25 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Are you not thinking of Palace?

Even if he is thinking of Palace, we were being over run in midfield with Defour on the pitch and Dyche brought Boyd and Tarky on.

Defour had done his job and wasn't needed when it was all hands to the pump.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:34 pm

We all want to play a more expensive game, which will require better players. But, it's impossible to just jump from one game plan to the other over a single game. It will probably take a couple of seasons to complete the transition, and therefore players like Defour are essential. Only we need to progress slowly in order to keep what we have. It's odd that we can't defend, apparently, without all 11 men at it. You would hope that with Defour pulling strings in the middle and creating chances, the rest would be able to put up enough of a show at keeping the opposition out. The idea that Burnley will lose, solely because Defour can't defend as well as Joey is laughable.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:34 am

'We all want to play a more expensive game'

That belongs on the 'Burnley can't compete financially' thread!

(I know you meant expansive)

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:35 am

Pitch and put.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:14 pm

http://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/foo ... -1-8628498" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting and honest interview with Defour's agent in the BE today.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:25 pm

RVclaret wrote:http://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/foo ... -1-8628498

Interesting and honest interview with Defour's agent in the BE today.

Basically confirms what we all knew, CT and others were talking rubbish when they accused him of feigning injury and not wanting to play.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:29 pm

Class player and if he can get Dyche fit pre season then he would be just what we need, flair in midfield.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:37 pm

KRBFC wrote:Basically confirms what we all knew, CT and others were talking rubbish when they accused him of feigning injury and not wanting to play.

Agreed.

Bertiebeehead · Post by **Bertiebeehead** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:53 pm

Really want to see this work out, class player just hope Dyche thinks so too.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:56 pm

All the article says is that he may or may not stay.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:Basically confirms what we all knew, CT and others were talking rubbish when they accused him of feigning injury and not wanting to play.

Or confirms that unless he's the main man and most important player then he won't be happy.

What do unhappy players do?

Get the hump an feign injury.

If defour wanted to play so badly and had the right attitude dyche would of picked him.

His agent isn't going to tell the truth that his player spat his dummy out whilst clearly trying to get him a move elsewhere.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:03 pm

Defour staying would be like a new signing.

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:07 pm

If he ends up staying hopefully he will show lots of professionalism and effort to have a good pre-season so he can play a greater role next season

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:14 pm

An ability to complete 90 minutes will put him in contention for a starting role. Otherwise he'll never be a large part of Dyche's plans.