Mirror reporting West Ham in for Gray ?

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:08 am

Interesting that they are reported to have had a bid turned down last Jan - did that unsettle Andre ?

West Ham ready to make £15million move for unsettled Burnley striker Andre Gray
The Hammers are bidding to bolster their attack this summer and the Burnley front man is on their radar

The Hammers had a similar bid turned down by the Clarets in January but could be successful this time around.

Gray is involved in a contract stand off wanting a big increase on his current deal which just has one year to run.

Burnley who have sold central defender Michael Keane to Everton for £25 million are also resigned to losing Gray who scored nine Premier League goals last season.

They want to sign experienced Stoke striker Jon Walters and have been in contact with the Potters over the Republic of Ireland international.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:10 am

Fine- £10 million in cash and Robbie Snodgrass with them paying the difference in wages between his current and our established maximum.

Simple enough deal surely?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:22 am

I think he will go. I don't think he has ever been comfortable playing in Lancashire and would jump at the chance to return to a london club.

Il Duce · Post by **Il Duce** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:27 am

Same newspaper also linking the Hammers with Hernandez. They've been linked with countless strikers already. Throwing **** at a wall and seeing if anything sticks.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:30 am

bfcjg wrote:I think he will go. I don't think he has ever been comfortable playing in Lancashire and would jump at the chance to return to a london club.

What an absolute load of nonsense, How has he not been comfortable playing in Lancashire? Was that when he was scoring 25 goals in the Championship. Some people really just want to make up their own agenda

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:38 am

bfcjg wrote:I think he will go. I don't think he has ever been comfortable playing in Lancashire and would jump at the chance to return to a london club.

How have you come to that conclusion? Numerous chats you've had with him or his body language in the 90 minutes you watch him play during the season?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:40 am

I never said he didn't perform for us I think his body language his social life suggest to me he wants away to London. If he goes he goes. I think he will.

Il Duce · Post by **Il Duce** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:44 am

I am bewildered at how your body language can possibly show where you want to live. What is it that gives it away? I'm interested in this theory.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 am

I believe he will go but only because he sees it as progressing his career. I have no issue with this and will not make up stuff to justify the reasons he is going, he is going because he doesn't support Burnley, he isn't from Burnley, we are just a stepping stone for him. Which I am more than happy with at present if we get to carry on seeing some of the fantastic players we have seen at The Turf over the last 10 years, and playing for us and not just the opposition.

His social life? you mean on his weekends off he likes to go and visit his girlfriend and friends down south? Applying this same logic Sean Dyche must be off also

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:54 am

Il Duce wrote:I am bewildered at how your body language can possibly show where you want to live. What is it that gives it away? I'm interested in this theory.

I think it was when he was sub and on the bench wearing his Pearly King Waistcoat instead of his padded Clarets jacket

Edit

I was also amused to read on his Twitter feed where he said, and I quote:

"People do make up some nonsense (2 crying smilies) bizzare"

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:05 am

15m? Yes please.

Without getting into a long drawn out debate, I think it would be best for all parties.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:09 am

Billy Big Bo!!ocks can walk straight out of that door for me, and at £13m, we will have
robbed someone blind.

Good luck to the fella, but I, for one, won't be shedding any tears if he departs.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:10 am

West ham are definitely in for two new strikers.
Gray for Snodgrass plus cash would be a good deal all round.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:12 am

Il Duce wrote:I am bewildered at how your body language can possibly show where you want to live. What is it that gives it away? I'm interested in this theory.

You don't realise how brilliant our body language specialists are.
they can even tell when Defour is feigning injury

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:16 am

Football - the greatest gathering of body language experts the world has ever seen.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:22 am

boatshed bill wrote:You don't realise how brilliant our body language specialists are.
they can even tell when Defour is feigning injury

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:25 am

I'd be disappointed to see Gray leave for anything less than £18 million, with a decent sell-on thrown in too.

We won games in his absence last year and whilst I don't agree with making wholesale changes, the money for Gray, Keane and Defour could enable us to move forward.

If players don't want to play for Burnley, then I don't want them to play for Burnley. I'd be sad for them leave though: they're all special players!

Paulclaret · Post by **Paulclaret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:32 am

I think we have to accept that ambitious players will always just see Burnley as a stepping stone to bigger things.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:47 am

I hope the club have a body language expert employed for any potential transfers.

What else can reading a footballers body language from the stand tell us?

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:49 am

There's nothing wrong with ambition. You should strive to play at the highest possible level. Michael Keane is capable, or will be soon, of playing European football, which he is unlikely to get at Turf Moor. Not for a few years yet anyway.
The downside is when you have players who think they're good enough for that level, when they're clearly not.
I tend to ignore rumours from the press until the people named actually sign. AG is getting a lot of stick for wanting 100 thou a week, when we don't even know if there is any truth in it at all. Some of the comments on here are sad, and won't do anything to endear AG to the Clarets, IF it turns out it's all a load of ********. Much like the stick SD got for not responding to bullshit from the press about the Palace job.
Give the lad a break, until he actually goes, he's ours and we should treat him as one of ours.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:56 am

It's a tricky one with Gray. He's a decent player and he's done well for us though I still have my doubts about him.

He could potentially do very well with the right service, but there are still question marks on areas of his game.

Of the very good strikers that we have had in recent memory; Rodriguez, Ings, Austin, I certainly wouldn't have him at their level.

I'd take a decent fee and wish him well, hopefully finding someone that can bring a bit more to the team.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:33 pm

Anyone who doesn't want to wear our Claret & Blue, on our terms, leaves with my blessing.

For the right transfer fee, I'll drive him down there myself.

Allowing disaffected players to stay only causes trouble.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:00 pm

The implication has been for some time that Gray is reluctant to sign a new deal. He himself said talks would start at the end of the season, but 6 weeks on, there's no suggestion that there's a serious possibility of him signing a new deal. Whether that's because he doesn't like living up north or wants to be closer to his girlfriend and the London party scene (which I'm not sure is backed up by any credible evidence at all) or simply because he feels he can better himself, or some other reason, is entirely besides the point.

He's out of contract next summer and so selling him becomes the right thing to do if we reach a tipping point whereby the money we get for him allows us to refresh our attacking options so we're at least as well off next season and perhaps better off in the medium term. Of course, if we don't reach that tipping point, we'll keep him and hope his mind hasn't wandered too far off track.

That said, I'm fairly relaxed about selling Gray and I think £15 million is probably fairly close to that tipping point. He's been an effective player for us in both the last 2 seasons, but there's always been a headache about who plays alongside him to get the best out of him and the team, and I'm not sure we've ever completely cracked it, nor that we ever will - like the vast majority of teams who don't play possession based football, our build up requires a target man to hold the ball up and compete for the first ball in the air. That means if we play Gray, we have to play 2 up front, and unless that target man is a more complete footballer than is to be expected, it makes us very direct and unsubtle (and means we don't get as much out of Gray as we might otherwise do because he lacks through ball service).

If we are going to add more subtety and craft to our game this coming season, therefore, the best solution all round might be for someone to give us the cash we want to let Gray leave and investing in players who can play more like Ings did - playing behind Barnes or Vokes, but getting beyond to give us a threat in behind - and/or who can give us real pace and goalscoring threat from midfield and out wide to achieve something similar. But I hope we are looking to bring those players in proactively on the assumption Gray will leave at some point regardless, rather than waiting for him to go and then scrambling at what might be a fairly late point in the window. Whatever happens, adding more flexibility to our forward options and adding a more consistent goal scoring threat from midfield has to be one of our key priorities this summer.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:05 pm

The best post I've read for a while, spice. Bang on.

JPS71 · Post by **JPS71** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:55 pm

Got to agree with claretspice.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:02 pm

I think jdrobbo summed it up the best in 1023 fewer words.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:05 pm

jdrobbo wrote:I'd be disappointed to see Gray leave for anything less than £18 million, with a decent sell-on thrown in too.

We won games in his absence last year and whilst I don't agree with making wholesale changes, the money for Gray, Keane and Defour could enable us to move forward.

If players don't want to play for Burnley, then I don't want them to play for Burnley. I'd be sad for them leave though: they're all special players!

Spot on, and I said similar yesterday. If I was manager I wouldn't want somebody playing for me who doesn't want to be at the club. I agree with the poster further up who commented that Gray's body language suggests he doesn't want to be here. It's not about being a body language specialist, it's about taking bits in here and there and rolling it up into one... the body language, the rumoured 100k wage demand, the relationship and clearly to me the need to become more famous. Wrap all that up and you do come to the conclusion that he'd be better off somewhere else.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:14 pm

Body language...'cupped ears' to our fans spoke volumes!

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:17 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Spot on, and I said similar yesterday. If I was manager I wouldn't want somebody playing for me who doesn't want to be at the club. I agree with the poster further up who commented that Gray's body language suggests he doesn't want to be here. It's not about being a body language specialist, it's about taking bits in here and there and rolling it up into one... the body language, the rumoured 100k wage demand, the relationship and clearly to me the need to become more famous. Wrap all that up and you do come to the conclusion that he'd be better off somewhere else.

You might be right about him wanting to move, but I'd say you've absolutely no idea whether he wants to be more famous for the sake of being more famous. I'd say you're jumping to conclusions based on minimal evidence. There's a fundamental difference between someone wanting a move, and not wanting to be at a club and refusing to give that club 100%. Keane presumably decided he wanted to leave us this summer months ago, but he's been a diamond since. I'm not sure we've any evidence to suggest Gray isn't in a similar place. I'll leave that to the manager to judge.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:18 pm

Gray's biggest asset is his pace, if we can't find another quick striker somewhere in the world who can trap a ball better than Andre then we are doing something wrong. (mind you Lukaku can't trap a ball either)

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:24 pm

claretspice wrote:

You might be right about him wanting to move, but I'd say you've absolutely no idea whether he wants to be more famous for the sake of being more famous. I'd say you're jumping to conclusions based on minimal evidence. There's a fundamental difference between someone wanting a move, and not wanting to be at a club and refusing to give that club 100%. Keane presumably decided he wanted to leave us this summer months ago, but he's been a diamond since. I'm not sure we've any evidence to suggest Gray isn't in a similar place. I'll leave that to the manager to judge.

WTF? Of course I have no idea whether he definitely wants to be famous. I can't read people's minds and I'm not perfect like you.

This is a messageboard to voice our thoughts and opinions so I'll do that if that's ok by you? I'm also not impressed that I can't add you to the ignore list.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:29 pm

FactualFrank wrote:WTF? Of course I have no idea whether he definitely wants to be famous. I can't read people's minds and I'm not perfect like you.

This is a messageboard to voice our thoughts and opinions so I'll do that if that's ok by you?

If you have no idea whether he definitely wants to be famous, why did you say, above:

FactualFrank wrote:it's about taking bits in here and there and rolling it up into one... the body language, the rumoured 100k wage demand, the relationship and clearly to me the need to become more famous.

You raised it not me. I think we'd all be better of not drawing too many conclusions about whether Gray wants out or has an attitude problem or not, and sticking to the facts as we know them - there have been rumours he won't sign a new contract, and to date he hasn't. That's all.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:29 pm

FactualFrank wrote:WTF? Of course I have no idea whether he definitely wants to be famous. I can't read people's minds and I'm not perfect like you.

This is a messageboard to voice our thoughts and opinions so I'll do that if that's ok by you?

If you have no idea whether he definitely wants to be famous, why did you say, above:

FactualFrank wrote:it's about taking bits in here and there and rolling it up into one... the body language, the rumoured 100k wage demand, the relationship and clearly to me the need to become more famous.

You raised it not me. I think we'd all be better of not drawing too many conclusions about whether Gray wants out or has an attitude problem or not, and sticking to the facts as we know them - there have been rumours he won't sign a new contract, and to date he hasn't. That's all.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:31 pm

The problem is we won"t get better than Gray for the selling price, most likely we'll get another donkey.
We need Gray Agyei and another young striker.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:34 pm

Who's starting rumours? You're the one who's suggesting it's now a rumour.

I'll continue to give my thoughts. "Clear to me" means (as you don't seem to understand) that it's obvious (to me) - but (obviously) not 100% certain. Hence, I'm giving my thoughts. Because this is what you do on messageboards.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:34 pm

ablueclaret wrote:The problem is we won"t get better than Gray for the selling price, most likely we'll get another donkey.
We need Gray Agyei and another young striker.

how do you reckon we won't get better than Andre for the selling price ? Depends how good our scouts are

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:36 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:how do you reckon we won't get better than Andre for the selling price ? Depends how good our scouts are

I actually rate Gray quite a lot. His pace won't be easy to replace and let's be fair, we don't have much of it in the team.

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:52 pm

I heard West Ham's chairman on talksport the other day saying how desperate they are for a striker or two. I immediately though then that Gray would be a good fit for them.

Like many I think Andre is a good striker and is worth the valuations being talked about. He has been excellent for us without ever really giving the feeling of being totally aligned.

My feeling is that we should let him go for the right money and as someone else says hunt down that elusive player who plays just behind another striker (Vokes/Barnes) like ingsy did. Is Jay Rod that type of player?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:54 pm

Guller Bull wrote:My feeling is that we should let him go for the right money and as someone else says hunt down that elusive player who plays just behind another striker (Vokes/Barnes) like ingsy did. Is Jay Rod that type of player?

Jay Rod has just signed for WBA.

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:02 pm

Cheers FF - I knew they were interested but didn't know he had signed. I don't think that is a good move for him.

Edit - just seen Claret Tony's thread on Jay Rod

Jamesy · Post by **Jamesy** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:26 pm

Andre Gray is a legend....... in his own head. Yes he has done ok for us but miles away from the finished article. Yes he has pace, however he has got the first touch of a camel so only good when onside and ball played into space in front of him. If a club are prepared to punt 15 million on him I would let him go. The guy is what he is and no manager will make him a better player than he is at present. Decidedly average.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:27 pm

A bit unfair Jamesy. Camels have to settle for playing football in the sand which is more difficult than grass.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:31 pm

ablueclaret wrote:The problem is we won"t get better than Gray for the selling price, most likely we'll get another donkey.
We need Gray Agyei and another young striker.

So is Gray a donkey, judging from your comment?

We've got Barnes, Vokes, Gray and Agyei/Long.

You're narrowing us down to Gray, Agyei and another.
Barnes and Vokes leaving?

If Agyei is going to be a primary player for us I think we could struggle.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:32 pm

Jamesy wrote:Andre Gray is a legend....... in his own head. Yes he has done ok for us but miles away from the finished article. Yes he has pace, however he has got the first touch of a camel so only good when onside and ball played into space in front of him. If a club are prepared to punt 15 million on him I would let him go. The guy is what he is and no manager will make him a better player than he is at present. Decidedly average.

Our punt of £10 million worked.
Who's to say at a better club he won't step up a level again like he's done throughout his career so far?

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:33 pm

FactualFrank wrote:A bit unfair Jamesy. Camels have to settle for playing football in the sand which is more difficult than grass.

And playing with camel toes shouldn't be sniffed at.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:37 pm

jdrobbo wrote:I'd be disappointed to see Gray leave for anything less than £18 million, with a decent sell-on thrown in too.

We won games in his absence last year and whilst I don't agree with making wholesale changes, the money for Gray, Keane and Defour could enable us to move forward.

If players don't want to play for Burnley, then I don't want them to play for Burnley. I'd be sad for them leave though: they're all special players!

My thoughts exactly

leelad · Post by **leelad** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:32 pm

If West Ham are offering £15m for Gray, we should take it. His first touch is not great and it looks like his head has been turned by the transfer speculation. We need to evolve and go for a different option up front. Completely agree with claret spice. we need players who can drop deep and bring our midfield closer to our forward line. Gray wants the ball to his feet or he wants to run on to a ball like he did when he scored Vs palace and Sunderland. I don't think our style of football works with how he wants to play as a forward. His goals worked in the championship where his power & pace was the difference in a lot of games, but it doesn't always work like that in the prem.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:37 pm

leelad wrote:If West Ham are offering £15m for Gray, we should take it. His first touch is not great and it looks like his head has been turned by the transfer speculation. We need to evolve and go for a different option up front. Completely agree with claret spice. we need players who can drop deep and bring our midfield closer to our forward line. Gray wants the ball to his feet or he wants to run on to a ball like he did when he scored Vs palace and Sunderland. I don't think our style of football works with how he wants to play as a forward. His goals worked in the championship where his power & pace was the difference in a lot of games, but it doesn't always work like that in the prem.

But our style of football is there because Dyche doesn't believe we have the players to do otherwise. The problem is, some posters assume Dyche never wants to change the style, which I think is nonsense. While I think if Gray wants to leave, we let him leave, why do we need to bring in somebody from a different angle? Buy a forward who will move near midfield to collect the ball? Nah.
You mentioned 'evolve' - well you don't really evolve past Gray. It's the midfield that needs to evolve - not upfront.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:42 pm

FactualFrank wrote:But our style of football is there because Dyche doesn't believe we have the players to do otherwise. The problem is, some posters assume Dyche never wants to change the style, which I think is nonsense. While I think if Gray wants to leave, we let him leave, why do we need to bring in somebody from a different angle? Buy a forward who will move near midfield to collect the ball? Nah.
You mentioned 'evolve' - well you don't really evolve past Gray. It's the midfield that needs to evolve - not upfront.

Interesting points, Frank.
Our midfield has been picked for its work rate ever since SD came in.
Yes, we should evolve. I think the signings of Defour and Brady show that SD would love to evolve our style. But when the chips are down SD reverts to the tried and tested combination of Boyd and Arfield.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:47 pm

BoatshedBill, I guess we'd all manage things differently but for me, Gray is the sort of player I'd love in my team - partnered by a big strong target man (Vokes). I think the word evolve is incorrect when we're talking about Gray - how can you evolve and do better than the way he plays? I don't think that's actually possible. If any player was to come deeper into midfield, it would be Vokes, not Gray. He'd come back and receive the pass to fetch Gray.

For me, it's central midfield that's the weakness. Gray doesn't get enough chances per game - now THAT is what we should be working on. Creating more chances.