UK Car Industry Investment Plummets Due To Brexit

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:24 pm

Shocking figures reported in the Financial Times in respect of investment in the UK car industry.

In 2015 £2.5bn was invested by manufacturers
In 2016, this fell to £1.66bn.

So far this year, just £332m has been invested in the industry, with £240m of that coming from one retooling project.

Brexit is proving to be catastrophic, already.

https://amp.ft.com/content/0c3427b2-5ce ... 55f264aa8b

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:29 pm

My right knee has started aching a lot. Left one is ok, but the right one is giving me gip.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:33 pm

Yeah, but 'we've taken back control'. That's all that matters, eh? Regardless of the consequences.

The UK will be an industrial wasteland, but it'll be a red, white and blue wasteland, all of our own making.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:36 pm

I never knew car manufacturing plants had to 'bid' for the work from their parent company.
That's a bizarre way to do business if its true.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:36 pm

Just make mobility British cars only and it will sort the job out.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:38 pm

TsarBomba wrote:Yeah, but 'we've taken back control'. That's all that matters, eh? Regardless of the consequences.

The UK will be an industrial wasteland, but it'll be a red, white and blue wasteland, all of our own making.

There are other manufacturers in the world of cars aside from those already here.

Did you know Ford moved production of the Transit to Turkey in 2013, due to cheaper costs?
That was nothing to do with Brexit what so ever, just running costs were cheaper in Turkey.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:50 pm

I blame 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and 2000's Brexit...............

The key issue with many of these plant closures has not only been the loss of manufacturing and historic car brands from Britain, but the loss of jobs as a result of these closures. When the Jaguar manufacturing plant in Coventry closed in 2005, there were around 400 manufacturing job losses and a huge 750 administrative job losses: a significant number for the West Midlands, an area that has suffered sustained industrial decline for a number of decades.
The movement of manufacture for industries like car production is also part of a wider movement from national industry to international industry, contemporary products no longer just come from one place but instead different components come from different places, and are designed, made and constructed in a number of different countries. Rather than the problems we associate with British car manufacture being unique to that industry, the problems are faced by a number of different industries that are finding it difficult to sustain the costs of UK manufacture and labour compared to the cheaper costs that can be found in other countries – despite the poor working conditions that are likely to be found there.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:52 pm

Just the remoaners remoaning. Move along, there's nothing see here.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:06 pm

Will this mean car prices go down? I walk past a car showroom most days and their prices are genuinely £2-3000 more than I've seen elsewhere. And over the last 12 months, I think I can count on one hand, the number of people I've seen walking around interested in the cars.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:08 pm

A lot of people do the leasing thing with their cars now.
PCP I think it's called.

I read a report where they think its the next area of concern for the financial sector and if it crashes it will cause lots of problems.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:27 pm

We don't even know the price of Brexit. Will take years before we feel the true effect of leaving the EU. Those people who voted for Brexit because they think it will end immigration or fund the NHS are going to be unhappy.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:30 pm

BennyD wrote:Just the remoaners remoaning. Move along, there's nothing see here.

Not sure what this has to do with "remoaning" to use your predictable terminology. Have the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders just made up the figures? Have the FT given the article a "remoaner" bias? Is this what you really think?
From the article:
"“It’s very difficult to cost investment if you don’t know what your output price is going to be,” said Mike Hawes, chief executive of the SMMT, pointing to Brexit-related uncertainty. “The industry wants a lot more certainty.”

The SMMT has called for an interim agreement for the UK to remain in the customs union for “as long as it takes” to allow the UK to iron out a comprehensive trade deal with the EU, warning that a “cliff edge” where Britain leaves the customs union and single market in 2019 would “permanently damage” the UK car industry.
Can't see anything wrong with the way the FT have reported this, and can't see any problem with the SMMT expressing their concerns for their industry.
Pretty much everyone agrees that uncertainty is the biggest issue.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:38 pm

nil_desperandum wrote: From the article:
"“It’s very difficult to cost investment if you don’t know what your output price is going to be,” said Mike Hawes, chief executive of the SMMT, pointing to Brexit-related uncertainty. “The industry wants a lot more certainty.”

...

Pretty much everyone agrees that uncertainty is the biggest issue.

Which is why we should have joined the Euro. At least, I would assume so - because we know within quite a small margin what the tariff will be on imports and exports, while the Euro exchange rate is likely to fluctuate much more than that.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:13 pm

I suppose China and Japan and the USA and Brazil and South Korea and dozens of other countries, COULD, in the near future decide that this is a great

place to invest in if we are gonna have substantially less trade with 28 European economies relatively soon - this would appear to present a potentially

fantastic investment opportunity, would it not?

- not sure if we should be making too much of ONE year's investment stats either...we need to take longer term views on this stuff.

*Uncertainty is certainly a problematic issue..that will be true for a while.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:19 pm

dsr wrote:Which is why we should have joined the Euro. At least, I would assume so - because we know within quite a small margin what the tariff will be on imports and exports, while the Euro exchange rate is likely to fluctuate much more than that.

Hi dsr, long time since I've seen anyone suggest that the UK should have joined the euro. Putting aside whether brexit was the right vote or not, the euro was always wrong for the UK. Our economy operates in different ways to the German economy - Germany dominates the euro zone economies - and the interest rate that might be right for Germany would more often than not be wrong for the UK, or the reverse, if Germany ever let considerations of other economies influence euro interest rates.

Variable exchange rates are important for the health of the UK economy - as they are for other economies.

And, of course, the UK could not use the euro if we weren't part of the euro zone (and the EU).

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:26 pm

Perhaps investment is cyclical?

Meanwhile Rolls Royce announce, "once in a lifetime investment"

https://www.ft.com/content/64f64bdc-5c9 ... 55f264aa8b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than 7,000 jobs are being safeguarded at Rolls-Royce after the group announced its biggest single investment in the UK for more than a decade

https://www.ft.com/content/64f64bdc-5c9 ... 55f264aa8b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not all doom n remoan.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:28 pm

That's a frighteningly sharp drop in investment in such a short space of time. The usual reality deniers will try and play it down, but there's nothing positive whatsoever about this news. It's potentially devastating to the thousands of people employed in that sector.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:30 pm

In recent months I heard and read an awful lot of anti Labour stuff and anti Corbyn stuff...there was tons of it as we all know...some of it on here.

Some of it was scaremongering stuff from powerful media, big business interests, or very wealthy individuals, along the lines of....if Labour/ Corbyn wins 'I will be out of here'...'you won't see me for dust'...'I will take my business oversees'...'will the last person out of Britain turn out the lights please'
and other great positive thoughtful stuff like that.

- could I politely request that these miserable ***** should S T F U immediately, stop talking Britain down, and then we might get some better news on the Inward Investment numbers.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:31 pm

dsr wrote:Which is why we should have joined the Euro. At least, I would assume so - because we know within quite a small margin what the tariff will be on imports and exports, while the Euro exchange rate is likely to fluctuate much more than that.

Which is why we should have joined the Euro? Really?! Have you learned nothing?!!!

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:33 pm

Another Brexit disaster story. I think I'll slash my wrists, life isn't worth living.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:34 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:stop talking Britain down

Classic

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:38 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:stop talking Britain down

Britain needs to be talked down. Talked down from the bloody ledge.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:11 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Perhaps investment is cyclical?

Meanwhile Rolls Royce announce, "once in a lifetime investment"

https://www.ft.com/content/64f64bdc-5c9 ... 55f264aa8b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than 7,000 jobs are being safeguarded at Rolls-Royce after the group announced its biggest single investment in the UK for more than a decade

https://www.ft.com/content/64f64bdc-5c9 ... 55f264aa8b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not all doom n remoan.

Is that in relation to the aerospace industry as opposed to the car makers?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:13 am

tim_noone wrote:Is that in relation to the aerospace industry as opposed to the car makers?

No it's in relation to the bigger brexit picture.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:13 am

BennyD wrote:Which is why we should have joined the Euro? Really?! Have you learned nothing?!!!

I didn't want to join the Euro. My point was that those people, including the man quoted in the FT article, who think that uncertainty is the worst possible thing when making UK investment decisions, must surely believe that joining the Euro is essential because the Euro exchange rate brings far more uncertainty than the potential Brexit tariffs.

If they don't want to join the Euro, then they can't believe uncertainty is the worst possible thing.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:13 am

tim_noone wrote:Is that in relation to the aerospace industry as opposed to the car makers?

Don't be dafts. Clearly we're all driving Rolls Royce's.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:16 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Don't be dafts. Clearly we're all driving Rolls Royce's.

Don't be idiots! Clearly we're all not checking before posting.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:17 am

Rolls Royce= fake news

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:41 am

Walton wrote:Shocking figures reported in the Financial Times in respect of investment in the UK car industry.

In 2015 £2.5bn was invested by manufacturers
In 2016, this fell to £1.66bn.

So far this year, just £332m has been invested in the industry, with £240m of that coming from one retooling project.

Brexit is proving to be catastrophic, already.

Some highly selective doom mongering here...

Firstly, these are only the announcements of intended investments...I doubt all of the £2.5bn figure announced in 2015 has been spent yet, never mind the 2016 figures...

Secondly, roughly 1,700,000 cars and commercial vehicles were produced in the UK in 2016, of which 80% were produced for the Export market. In 2009, the last full year of a Labour Government, this figure was less than 1,000,000. Further good news is that in 2011, UK produced cars contained 36% British made components, whereas in 2016, this figure had leapt to 44%...

Thirdly, the majority of Formula One teams are based in the UK, including even Mercedes, who build their racing engines in Northampton. It's estimated that 4,000 British firms are involved in the F1 supply chain. JCB, Construction vehicles and plant, are another success story, with sales exceeding £2.3bn, and 80% of it's output being exported...

http://www.theaa.com/car-buying/cars-made-in-britain

I'm sure Brexit will present it's challenges, but we're not dead yet...

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:38 am

Chicken

Licken

9thMay1987 · Post by **9thMay1987** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:45 am

Brexit currently causes financial issues for all companies operating inside the UK but with foreign ownership.

A fall in UK currency, equates to a fall in sales, when currency is converted, which equates to a fall in profit resulting in a fall in future investment.

The car industry carries an added risk, should we fall out of the Customs Union, with the free flow of components being subject to barriers.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:48 am

This what happens when you have a minimum wage, health and safety, taxes etc etc that other countries don't have. Most manufacturers don't care about working conditions and quality control as long as they make the maximum profit.

The biggest example of this is the indian call centres where you can't understand the person on the other end and they can do nothing to help you when you do manage to make them understand what you want.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:05 am

All the FT are doing is highlighting the need for an interim agreement to protect jobs and investments.

The only people against this?

Yup, Brexiteers.

They are so terrified that their dream Uk -------> Singapore might get derailed when people actually know what that means that they don't want anything even remotely sensible to get in the way.

Remember, they are doing this for the good of the country.

THEY ARE PATRIOTS!

STOP TALKING BRITAIN DOWN!

BLUE PASSPORTS! BLUE ******* PASSPORTS!

etc etc etc

Oh, and REMOANERS!

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:13 am

The Times is very anti Brexit and all their articles have that slant. I certainly don't believe for 1 minute that this is fake, but they never print anything positive about brexit.

They Times got the economy wrong 12months ago and lets hope they get it wrong this time, concerning investment

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:15 am

They're not patriots. They're pretend patriots who think that their Prime Minister should have absolute dictatorial powers and anyone who dares disagree is a traitor.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:20 am

The Times?

The Times is anti-Brexit?

THE TIMES?

Yeah, course it is

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:21 am

Firthy wrote: This what happens when you have a minimum wage, health and safety, taxes etc

Most manufacturers...
...indian call centres

Call centers are a service industry not manufacturing.

Poor us for having a high standard of living.
Health and safety; I'm proud we're the the only country in the last several decades which has put on an Olympics without killing a labourer.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:39 am

I've said many times, businesses and economies fluctuate, always have always will.
Yet every report of a down turn in anything is proof positive that we should have stayed in the EU.

You need to give your head a big shake, wake up, and wait and see what the effects of Brexit are. Which no ****** will know for probably another 5 years.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:17 am

CombatClaret wrote:Call centers are a service industry not manufacturing.

Poor us for having a high standard of living.
Health and safety; I'm proud we're the the only country in the last several decades which has put on an Olympics without killing a labourer.

Manufacturing or services both require labour and if businesses can get that labour cheaper in another country without all the h&s and taxes we have then they will go there to maximise profits.

Not saying I agree with it but it's fact and the price we pay for wanting better pay and working conditions.

FulledgeClaret · Post by **FulledgeClaret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:23 am

The car industry has had Billions invested in the last few years its inevitable that investment would slow once the necessary improvements were made, why build a new manufacturing plant or state of the art engine development centre just for fun if they already exist and another isn't needed.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:25 am

Top Claret wrote:The Times is very anti Brexit and all their articles have that slant. I certainly don't believe for 1 minute that this is fake, but they never print anything positive about brexit.

They Times got the economy wrong 12months ago and lets hope they get it wrong this time, concerning investment

2 things.
1. the Times was very pro-Brexit. (It's a Murdoch paper after all!)
2. This article was in the FT not The Times, and they look at things rather differently. (There' s a clue in the "F" - financial).

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:29 am

FulledgeClaret wrote:The car industry has had Billions invested in the last few years its inevitable that investment would slow once the necessary improvements were made, why build a new manufacturing plant or state of the art engine development centre just for fun if they already exist and another isn't needed.

The article says that last year's £1.66bn was the lowest on record. That figure for this year of £322m is absolutely miles off even that, with just 6 months left.

It's crystal clear that Brexit is to blame for this.

I just wish Leavers would wake up and see the damage they're doing to the UK.

Claretincraven · Post by **Claretincraven** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:36 am

About a fortnight ago Jaguar Land Rover announced they were recruiting 5,000 new staff, a 15% increase in staff numbers.
Forgive me if I am wrong but I don't recall you posting that news.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:40 am

Is this a phishing thread?

We have taken back control of our waters so who needs the car industry when fish are aplenty there for the catching.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:41 am

Claretincraven wrote:About a fortnight ago Jaguar Land Rover announced they were recruiting 5,000 new staff, a 15% increase in staff numbers.
Forgive me if I am wrong but I don't recall you posting that news.

Fair point, but selling top of the range cars to the USA and China, (whilst the pound is weak, partly due to Brexit uncertainty), is not really comparable to the big picture genuinely concerning the industry, which concerns future investment.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:45 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:The article says that last year's £1.66bn was the lowest on record. That figure for this year of £322m is absolutely miles off even that, with just 6 months left.

It's crystal clear that Brexit is to blame for this.

I just wish Leavers would wake up and see the damage they're doing to the UK.

Just for clarity, "lowest on record" means lowest for 6 years. They haven't many records. The FT makes no comment about what investment was made in 2010 - presumably they don't know. So after a period of what presumably was record investment as UK car manufacture almost doubled, we've had a year and a half that didn't have record investment. (I suspect the absence of any detail re. 2011-2014 means that the 2016 figure was pretty close to at least one of those years.)

Anyway, these anti-Brexit stories are still about what people have said is going to happen in the future. Before the vote, it was immediate emergency budgets and tax rises; after the vote, it was polls about pessimism in industry; now it's lack of certainty in future investment. Why do we hear so much about what might happen, and relatively little about what is happening?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:45 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:The Times?

The Times is anti-Brexit?

THE TIMES?

Yeah, course it is

Good morning, Lancs. Which "Times" are you referring to? The (London )Times that I read was on the "stay in the EU" side and still is in most commentary pieces. However, it's not as "political" as the FT is on brexit.

I'm sure you know this.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:50 am

Clarets4me wrote:Some highly selective doom mongering here...

Thirdly, the majority of Formula One teams are based in the UK, including even Mercedes, who build their racing engines in Northampton. It's estimated that 4,000 British firms are involved in the F1 supply chain. JCB, Construction vehicles and plant, are another success story, with sales exceeding £2.3bn, and 80% of it's output being exported.....

When I first read above re F1, I thought you were suggesting that Sebastian Vettel has specified that JCB construct his next F1 so that he can "shovel" Lewis Hamilton out of his way next time.

I think there are some JCB "back hoe" racers...

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:55 am

dsr wrote:Why do we hear so much about what might happen, and relatively little about what is happening?

So what is happening?

We're a full year on from the vote, discussions have started, and still absolutely nobody has a clue what is happening. I include in this the Tory party whose project this was in the first place.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:55 am

The Times isn't a pro-EU paper.

None of the Murdoch ones are.

Just because it doesn't come out with tabloid headlines like "Up your Juncker" and puts it slightly more diplomatic language doesn't change that.

I think its fairer than most if that helps, but lets not pretend its not.