BBC Poll,......A THIRD of Footie Fans Illegally Stream Games

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:12 am

A BBC poll finds that around a third of footie fans illegally stream
games. Kodi and the like.
Wouldn't have thought it was that high.
Discussion on fivelive now.

StuffyClaret · Post by **StuffyClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:17 am

....and the rest

MarkGreen · Post by **MarkGreen** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:19 am

ElectroClaret wrote:Wouldn't have thought it was that high.

Really? I guarantee that it is more than a third...

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:21 am

Considering the fact that there are 10 PL games in a weekend and 3 or 4 are actually broadcasted legally it really isn't that surprising.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:24 am

Fair enough, but if it's a third of all footie fans, that's a hell of
a lot of people.

taio · Post by **taio** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:24 am

This needs to be properly enforced to stop people watching live online.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:26 am

taio wrote:This needs to be properly enforced to stop people watching live.

Rovers are doing a very good job.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:34 am

taio wrote:This needs to be properly enforced to stop people watching live online.

And then enforce banning illegal music downloads?.. The ship has sailed.

It'll be interesting to see how Sky and BT handle this, prosecuting millions of people will take time I imagine.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:37 am

there were so many people contacting 5live to say that they would have no problem paying for the service if it was available legally - and I think most would say the same.

The real issue with that though is the popular clubs (Man Utd; Liverpool etc) would want to get the revenue from their broadcasts and not share it with other clubs and some would argue rightly so, I personally disagree though. The "product" on sale is a Premier League match, not a Man Utd match so I personally think that any revenue should be equally shared (or as equally as it is now) across all teams.

Of course it is much more than that as well - lower league teams would argue they would lose revenue because games may be available when they play (currently not permitted for 3pm kick offs).

One interesting suggestion was to provided ticketed access to fans at their ground for their clubs away games and provide viewing inside the club. E.g. Open up Jimmy Mac stand for a few hundred fans when we play away for them to watch and have a few beers etc.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:38 am

taio wrote:This needs to be properly enforced to stop people watching live online.

I would make all the games available online. It should be possible to go see your team and then choose to watch whichever match tempts you.

taio · Post by **taio** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:40 am

LoveCurryPies wrote:I would make all the games available online. It should be possible to go see your team and then choose to watch whichever match tempts you.

I disagree because I prefer people to attend game where they can. Each to their own.

billyhamilton82 · Post by **billyhamilton82** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:45 am

Beginning of the end.

Sky already dropping football package prices in an attempt to win back some of their customers.

They must be losing millions if that's the extent of the problem.

For every illegal user its an ex Sky customer who used to pay them upwards of £40 per month.

Murdoch will be twitching.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:47 am

taio wrote:I disagree because I prefer people to attend game where they can. Each to their own.

But people would still attend the games they want.

Just because all the games are available for me to watch online it doesn't stop me from going on.

I'm not able to get to most away games so only use it for those & other games that I fancy watching

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:47 am

Bloke just been on saying this is a civil matter rather than criminal.

Any briefs on here?

taio · Post by **taio** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:51 am

wilks_bfc wrote:But people would still attend the games they want.

Just because all the games are available for me to watch online it doesn't stop me from going on.

I'm not able to get to most away games so only use it for those & other games that I fancy watching

Might not be the case with you. But I know several where it has meant they haven't gone on as a walk-on. I don't think that's a good thing.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:58 am

No I agree it's not but itll be interesting to know the reasons why

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:03 am

I don't think we are that far off all 10 premier league games per round being shown live with 10 different kick off times starting on Friday Night and finishing on Monday Night, possibly apart from round 38 which will probably be a red button job

ClaretFelix · Post by **ClaretFelix** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:09 am

I think TV companies need to cut their budgets for bake off/love island/tone deaf competitions/ celebrity dog walking etc and fling a few more quid towards showing live Premier League football.

I get that some people wouldn't be interested in it, but surely a subscription service for 3pm Saturday kickoffs, with option to pick your match via the red button would be preferable.

I'm sure that there would be sufficient interest if a channel, any channel, would take the leap of faith and bid for the rights for this format

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:20 am

billyhamilton82 wrote:Beginning of the end.
Sky already dropping football package prices in an attempt to win back some of their customers.
They must be losing millions if that's the extent of the problem.
For every illegal user its an ex Sky customer who used to pay them upwards of £40 per month.

Murdoch will be twitching.

Spot on and the very reason we need the dry powder store. Many senior clubs could be in serious problems if an ITV squarial collapse was to happen.

littlemissclaret · Post by **littlemissclaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:22 am

I subscribe to Sky Sports and BT Sport. I only stream games I can't get to, or get tickets for and are not on UK TV. I count in the stats I guess, but I'm not affecting Sky or BTs revenue.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:23 am

ClaretFelix wrote:I think TV companies need to cut their budgets for bake off/love island/tone deaf competitions/ celebrity dog walking etc and fling a few more quid towards showing live Premier League football.

I get that some people wouldn't be interested in it, but surely a subscription service for 3pm Saturday kickoffs, with option to pick your match via the red button would be preferable.

I'm sure that there would be sufficient interest if a channel, any channel, would take the leap of faith and bid for the rights for this format

They can't until the FA/PL/FL get rid of the 3pm blackout rule, which we have to thank Bob Lord for.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:23 am

ClaretFelix wrote:I think TV companies need to cut their budgets for bake off/love island/tone deaf competitions/ celebrity dog walking etc and fling a few more quid towards showing live Premier League football.

You wouldn't get a lot.
The entire reason TV is awash with these shows is because they are so cheap to make. The majority of the cast (the public) comes free, no agents, no script writers, no expensive sets.
All you need is a camera, a presenter and some idiots.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:28 am

Watched a programme on Netflix about this. On it they were saying that the lost revenue from sky subscribers cancelling or downgrading then streaming is a drop in the ocean. They are not bothered as they sell to other countries and with advertising it doesnt matter if people watch via sky or stream. They still get advertising money.

I

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:33 am

ClaretFelix wrote:I think TV companies need to cut their budgets for bake off/love island/tone deaf competitions/ celebrity dog walking etc and fling a few more quid towards showing live Premier League football.

I get that some people wouldn't be interested in it, but surely a subscription service for 3pm Saturday kickoffs, with option to pick your match via the red button would be preferable.

I'm sure that there would be sufficient interest if a channel, any channel, would take the leap of faith and bid for the rights for this format

What would happen if Burnley lost 3k off their gate due to people using that service? UTD would say have 50k people subscribing. UTD would want a bigger share yet we would be losing out.

Surely the big clubs with their own channels have already explored these options and found it not to be viable in this country. Probably happens with Madrid and Barca in the way they divvy up lions share of TV money.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:35 am

billyhamilton82 wrote:Beginning of the end.
Murdoch will be twitching.

Seems daft saying it when the rights Sky and BT pay for goes up every time, but I think you're right. It won't go on forever.

Music revenue dropped about 8 billion dollars in 10 years when downloads took over. That whole industry just doesn't exist in the same way anymore.

They'll find a way to make money from streaming but it won't be anything like the amounts of cash involved now. It's a good job we built that training ground when we did.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:36 am

billyhamilton82 wrote:For every illegal user its an ex Sky customer who used to pay them upwards of £40 per month.

Not quite, the film industry kept that myth up 'Every downloaded film was a lost sale'. Just because someone downloaded 'Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter' for free does not mean they would have paid to see it in cinemas.

Particularly the younger generations who are still big into sport, tech saavy and may not have a huge disposable income. They've been told by Netflicks & Spotify a tenner is what you pay a month for something (unlimited, on demand).

£40 for three/4 games a week plus tons of other sh*t they don't want seems ludicrously expensive. Hence the upcoming price drop for single sport channels but even that will still seem pricey.

peter_nobles_fringe · Post by **peter_nobles_fringe** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:38 am

I watch probably more sport over the internet now through Ipad apps and an android box than I did when I subscribed to sky sports, its so easy to access. Yes I am a season ticket holder (have been for the last 18 years) and do prefer to be at a live game than watch on tv. My fallout with sky sport is the cost of it which I can comfortably afford keeps going up then you read the papers or watch sky sports news and they are all excited that players are going stupid prices, being paid ridiculous wages and the pimping agents are taking everyone for a ride. that's when I decided they were not taking my money any more.

stitch · Post by **stitch** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:52 am

It was interesting that 'match not available to view on Sky/BT' wasn't one of the reasons listed in the survey. I would imagine that, in reality, this is the top reason.

I don't enjoy 'having' to view via stream, it's a pain to find one, the quality isn't great and they are unreliable. We have both Sky and BT Sport, but I would happily pay-per-view for our matches. I'm in Scotland, so attending matches regularly isn't an option, so no loss on the gate, but I do understand this is a very real concern, one for the entire football league.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:03 pm

taio wrote:I disagree because I prefer people to attend game where they can. Each to their own.

I am saying attend your team's match and also have the facility to watch other games. Unless you have worked out a way to attend every match?

taio · Post by **taio** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:06 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:I am saying attend your team's match and also have the facility to watch other games. Unless you have worked out a way to attend every match?

I'm simply saying some will not attend games as a result. If you can't see that as a valid concern there's little point in discussing

Stproc · Post by **Stproc** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:07 pm

I seem to be paying more and more and it can't go on.
I pay for season tickets at the Turf, Sky Sports full package and still don't get to see the away games. What do you do !!!

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:12 pm

Personally I think its a red herring that attendances would be grossly affected by 3pm kick offs being shown on TV. Something will happen, it has to, the cat is out of the bag and the FA/Sky/Whomever will be working out a way of monetising those streamers. Music and movie consumption has evolved in spite of the opposition from traditionalists and football will too.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:12 pm

As people have said - the technology has overtaken the gravy train.

We may have to wait a long, long time after the current deal until the Premier League receives such a big payday as we've got now.

Those illegal streams are -apparently- low quality. Broadcasters would do well to drastically drop the price and sell games for a couple of quid each.

I'd happily pay for a reliable stream if it were a low-cost thing.

What does a full Sky package cost these days? It's close to £100 / month isn't it?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:14 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:
One interesting suggestion was to provided ticketed access to fans at their ground for their clubs away games and provide viewing inside the club. E.g. Open up Jimmy Mac stand for a few hundred fans when we play away for them to watch and have a few beers etc.

Hi Rick, I got a complaint from some of the posters on here when I made a comment that implied that all Burnley fans are based in the UK. Yes, I know that fans living overseas can probably get access where they live to Burnley's games. But, what about the fans who live in the UK, but in a different part of the country from Burnley? How are we going to watch the away games? and, for that matter, the home games?

Maybe there could be an "I support Burnley" pass - and we can access live streams wherever we are in the world. Maybe UK based fans could qualify for the pass with proof of attendance at X number of live games per season?

UTC

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:17 pm

The proper illegal streams are excellent quality.

The type you see through Iraqigoals or cricfree or whatever are the absolute worst though, it's like watching with cataracts, except cataracts won't download harmful crap onto your computer if you click an ad in the wrong place.

stitch · Post by **stitch** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:21 pm

dushanbe wrote:Personally I think its a red herring that attendances would be grossly affected by 3pm kick offs being shown on TV. Something will happen, it has to, the cat is out of the bag and the FA/Sky/Whomever will be working out a way of monetising those streamers. Music and movie consumption has evolved in spite of the opposition from traditionalists and football will too.

I don't believe Premier League attendance would be dramatically affected. The true danger, as someone pointed out here earlier in the year, is for those in the lower leagues, how can dads persuade their sons to come along to a game on a rainy Saturday when all their mates are staying home to watch the Manchester derby on the telly!?

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:32 pm

the American Football tv system is that a match can't be shown live, within 100miles of the stadium, until the match is a sellout. USA has a lot more regional broadcasters than UK but with technology this could be workable.

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:34 pm

stitch wrote:I don't believe Premier League attendance would be dramatically affected. The true danger, as someone pointed out here earlier in the year, is for those in the lower leagues, how can dads persuade their sons to come along to a game on a rainy Saturday when all their mates are staying home to watch the Manchester derby on the telly!?

And I think thats the red herring part.

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:35 pm

I admit I 'illegally stream' games I can't get to but I argue it's become so inaccessible to some fans they have to. I wouldn't mind paying for the games I watch but not at the rate they charge. There has to be a happy medium. They've already priced out most fans!

Chuckypad · Post by **Chuckypad** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:40 pm

Rowls wrote:As people have said - the technology has overtaken the gravy train.

We may have to wait a long, long time after the current deal until the Premier League receives such a big payday as we've got now.

Those illegal streams are -apparently- low quality. Broadcasters would do well to drastically drop the price and sell games for a couple of quid each.

I'd happily pay for a reliable stream if it were a low-cost thing.

What does a full Sky package cost these days? It's close to £100 / month isn't it?

Get on Sportsmania, Rowls - It's £1 per week, and this subscription gives unbelievably reliable streams. Accessing them is a piece of p/iss too

Tribesmen · Post by **Tribesmen** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:44 pm

Hey if I lost the streams I still would never pay for Sky simple as that . Ohhhh saw every game apart from two last year and that was because I was away .
Love to see Sky hit the buffers

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:50 pm

And another 3rd are lying sods

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:12 pm

Chuckypad wrote:Get on Sportsmania, Rowls - It's £1 per week, and this subscription gives unbelievably reliable streams. Accessing them is a piece of p/iss too

I use sportsmania but for all the streams are readily available, the quality isn't anything like HD. It's a very poor substitute compared to watching on SKY.

Since subscribing, the only games that I have watched have been Burnley away and I tried a boxing stream - again not as good as SKY and if it was a fight that I really wanted to watch, I'd pay for it.

It's a tricky one to resolve because I do agree that football being readily available could impact on the lower league teams. I also don't want it to get to a point where the big clubs pull in bigger sums because they have a bigger fan base - that will only further serve to widen the gap and devalue the competition.

I'd happily subscribe to an away season ticket if a solution could be found that suits all parties. The prices are probably excessive for football, especially when you are take into account having to pay more than one broadcaster, but ultimately, it's wanting to see my team as opposed to the money that is the appeal of the streams for me (not that the missus doesn't like to have a moan about how much it costs

)

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:12 pm

Chuckypad - re Sportsmania,
1)to watch it on PC do you need to download anything else
2) I take it you use the £50 per year option? - Is there a risk that Sportsmania will be pulled?

ClaretSam92 · Post by **ClaretSam92** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:24 pm

DCWat wrote:I use sportsmania but for all the streams are readily available, the quality isn't anything like HD. It's a very poor substitute compared to watching on SKY.

Since subscribing, the only games that I have watched have been Burnley away and I tried a boxing stream - again not as good as SKY and if it was a fight that I really wanted to watch, I'd pay for it.

It's a tricky one to resolve because I do agree that football being readily available could impact on the lower league teams. I also don't want it to get to a point where the big clubs pull in bigger sums because they have a bigger fan base - that will only further serve to widen the gap and devalue the competition.

I'd happily subscribe to an away season ticket if a solution could be found that suits all parties. The prices are probably excessive for football, especially when you are take into account having to pay more than one broadcaster, but ultimately, it's wanting to see my team as opposed to the money that is the appeal of the streams for me (not that the missus doesn't like to have a moan about how much it costs )

How you can describe Sportsmania streams as poor quality is beyond me. Every premier league game in 720p (admitedly not as clear as Sky regardless) and 60 fps, for the same price per year as you pay for half a months full sky subscription. Plus selct championship 3pm kickoffs, Champions League, Europa Leage, PPV and pretty much every sporting event going.

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:29 pm

Looks like they are not accepting new registrations but taking you to a sister site.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:34 pm

Sportsmania is full for subscribers but Sportsnation is the same company just a different server you sign up to.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:34 pm

ClaretSam92 wrote:How you can describe Sportsmania streams as poor quality is beyond me. Every premier league game in 720p (admitedly not as clear as Sky regardless) and 60 fps, for the same price per year as you pay for half a months full sky subscription. Plus selct championship 3pm kickoffs, Champions League, Europa Leage, PPV and pretty much every sporting event going.

Two reasons. 1) the frame rate isn't enough to prevent slight lag (and this is with high speed broadband and a higher end television). It's not bad for closer action but longer range cameras emphasise the lag that just doesn't happen with SKY HD. 2) the image quality is nowhere near HD, the clarity just isn't there.

As I say, as an option to allow me to watch away games, it does the job, but it's certainly not an option good enough for me to even consider cancelling my sports subscription.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:45 pm

I agree entirely with DCWat. Plus the fact that when I watch a game on sportsmania the picture invariably cuts out every 10/15 minutes with the sound still playing leaving me needing to refresh the page. I also was left disappointed recently when I decided to use it for a PPV boxing match but got a picture that was constantly lagging and stalling.

Like DC, I think it's a very good service for £1 per week and a great way to watch the Burnley away games that I don't make but I wouldn't consider ditching Sky for it.

Chuckypad · Post by **Chuckypad** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:01 pm

Guller Bull wrote:Chuckypad - re Sportsmania,
1)to watch it on PC do you need to download anything else
2) I take it you use the £50 per year option? - Is there a risk that Sportsmania will be pulled?

Hi Guller Bull - If you go to sportsmaniarocks or just google it, all the info is there. It's really clear and simple to get started. There are different subscription lengths, I usually opt for the 6 month period for £26, just in case it gets closed down. I'm not too clued up on any of this tbh so can't advise on the likelihood of it being pulled but just to say I've had it for over a year and only on a couple of occasions have I had any problems.

It is excellent quality...I've watched every Burnley games and ppv boxing event in HD, and I certainly haven't experienced the problems DC Wat and Rileybobs mention. Like you say, I think subscription is close to capacity so the sister site, sportsnation, is the place to go if you struggle. I've heard this is exactly the same in terms of quality.

You can't complain for £1 a week

Edit - I access sportsmania through the internet and on the firestick - The firestick has as very useful 'sports on demand' section with lots of good documentaries across sports, well worth checking out.