Bolton Wanderers Salary Cap

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Bolton have been issued with a salary cap on any signings of £4,500 per week.
They were hoping to get Rovers out of contract player Lowe whom Nottingham Forest are also interested.
Arthur Daley aka Ken Anderson to speak to Football League tomorrow.
What a mess

[Sidney1st]

That's higher than I expected it too be.

Rovers fans should be watching this with interest.

[Sidney1st]

Article is worth a read

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/15 ... p_crusade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tiger76]

Such a shame, have the players not had their promotion bonuses yet,the contracts were crazy at league 1 level, but the club is liable for any outgoings, this is what happens when you behave like an ostrich.

[Cleveleys_claret]

Cant believe they were looking at wages of 11.5k a week. Never learn these clubs

[piston broke]

Cant believe they were looking at wages of 11.5k a week. Never learn these clubs

i didn't read it they were looking at 11.5k/week, that was the cap?

[ayrshireclaret83]

10 years ahead

[Cleveleys_claret]

Scary that last night at Deepdale I nearly said the same regards our squad and that of Prestons ha ha. Stopped myself short of saying it to my dad and thought well maybe a few years but things can change so quick

[Bin Ont Turf]

It's still a damp pants moment when thinking of Bolton fans singing for Owen Coyle on Boxing Day.

I don't think that will ever stop being funny.

[Quicknick]

4.5K is a lot.

[ExistentialWanderer]

A member of my family (not directly but through marriage) is a Trotter. He gave us grief for years. Funny how he is so quiet these days. He must still be in 2027?!

[RammyClaret61]

A member of my family (not directly but through marriage) is a Trotter.

"This time next year they'll be millionaires!" Or maybe not

[KRBFC]

Its the fans I feel sorry for, its very much a situation we could find ourselves further down the line. Gradually increasing the wage budget year on year in the PL to try and progress and then stuck in a mess once you're relegated. Its almost like the longer you spend in the PL the more fooked you will be once you get relegated out of it. How are clubs expected to cope once relegated after a long time in the top division? I don't know the entire situation at Bolton but imagine if we were in the PL for the next 10 years, we would probably be signing players on longer contracts and Id bet we would have a player on £100k p/w. Its natural attempt at progression. I think something has to change in football with the contracts to stop clubs getting stuck with these players, maximum 2 year deal? Would cut down transfer fees, the players wouldn't be happy but f**k the players the clubs should be protected first.

[Holtyclaret]

Yet a lot of posters on here would have us spending willy nilly. Our approach frustrates some and I can see why to an extent but I applaud the boards tactics of slow evolution.

Do feel for Bolton's fans though.

[RammyClaret61]

No sympathy for their fans whatsoever. W***y Wanderers.

[mikeS]

Interesting to see no matter how many winding-up orders income tax deferments, non-payment of contractors and players, they are still operating, still in business ands still paying wages like that.

[Sidney1st]

Its the fans I feel sorry for, its very much a situation we could find ourselves further down the line. Gradually increasing the wage budget year on year in the PL to try and progress and then stuck in a mess once you're relegated. Its almost like the longer you spend in the PL the more fooked you will be once you get relegated out of it. How are clubs expected to cope once relegated after a long time in the top division? I don't know the entire situation at Bolton but imagine if we were in the PL for the next 10 years, we would probably be signing players on longer contracts and Id bet we would have a player on £100k p/w. Its natural attempt at progression. I think something has to change in football with the contracts to stop clubs getting stuck with these players, maximum 2 year deal? Would cut down transfer fees, the players wouldn't be happy but f**k the players the clubs should be protected first.

Out of interest, when the club is trying to operate within a budget and looking to sign players within that budget, why do you think some fans complain so much about some signings?

As for stopping clubs getting stuck with big wage bills, there's a thing called relegation clauses.

You are correct that something needs to be done in regards to wages etc, but the Football league are actually trying, hence running costs in League 1 & 2 being restricted to a percentage of a clubs total income.
Large numbers of fans don't understand this though, hence some of the whinging on that link from the local Bolton news site.

[Hipper]

Its the fans I feel sorry for, its very much a situation we could find ourselves further down the line. Gradually increasing the wage budget year on year in the PL to try and progress and then stuck in a mess once you're relegated.

I agree that I sympathise to some extent with the fans (there are some pretty sensible comments after that article) but I don't agree that we are comparable.

Bolton lived in the Premier League using a debt structure from their owners. It's surely that debt, once the owner wanted out and after relegation, that has caused their problems. We are trying to live within our means, surviving with no debt as we have no way of servicing a debt if we live beyond the Premier League income.

A strategy of incurring debt to get into the Premier League makes sense but having one to keep you there does not.

[ClaretTony]

They are a club that simply had no plans to deal with the possibility of coming out of the Premier League, a club totally reliant on its owner to put in more and more funds should it be required. We go about our business sensibly. Recently we've bought two very experienced players from another Premier League club and people have moaned and gone on about marquee signings. Probably the Bolton fans did. I've little sympathy. If you crave to live way beyond your means for so long it will come back to bite you and that's what's happened here. It's a club in a major mess, it has clearly been sold (given away really) by Eddie Davies to people incapable of running the club as an ongoing business which is what it has to be.

[IrkthePurists]

KRBFC is right though in a lot of respects. The longer you stay up, the harder you fall, no matter how sensibly you start, the pressure grows, the expectation grows, the risk taking grows.

We're in the game now.

[ClaretTony]

KRBFC is right though in a lot of respects. The longer you stay up, the harder you fall, no matter how sensibly you start, the pressure grows, the expectation grows, the risk taking grows.

We're in the game now.

And we are playing the game our own way, a sensible way. It's the likes of KRBFC who are almost demanding we go down the Bolton route. Yes, the expectation grows but the one thing our club cannot do is spend what we don't have. We have to be prepared for the rainy day when it comes.

[Belgianclaret]

Good thing we archieved promotion in 2009. Not saying we would have ended up like Bolton, but It would have taken a hell of an effort to bring the club back to sound financial footing.

[bumba]

Its the fans I feel sorry for, its very much a situation we could find ourselves further down the line. Gradually increasing the wage budget year on year in the PL to try and progress and then stuck in a mess once you're relegated. Its almost like the longer you spend in the PL the more fooked you will be once you get relegated out of it. How are clubs expected to cope once relegated after a long time in the top division? I don't know the entire situation at Bolton but imagine if we were in the PL for the next 10 years, we would probably be signing players on longer contracts and Id bet we would have a player on £100k p/w. Its natural attempt at progression. I think something has to change in football with the contracts to stop clubs getting stuck with these players, maximum 2 year deal? Would cut down transfer fees, the players wouldn't be happy but f**k the players the clubs should be protected first.

The reason players like gray an Keane are only on 3 year deals is so that if the club ever got relegated we wouldn't be paying owt premier league wages 5 years down the line.
If we get relegated any big earners are off the wage bill by the time our parachute payments are stopped.
We would be back at square one regarding rebuilding but at least we wouldn't be having the debts these clubs that lived beyond there means have done

[Dyched]

That 2009 promotion must have saved us from serious trouble. Barry Kilby came out with crap about being set up for 10 years. Couple of years later and we're skint again.

[ClaretTony]

That 2009 promotion must have saved us from serious trouble. Barry Kilby came out with crap about being set up for 10 years. Couple of years later and we're skint again.

I'm never so sure it was Kilby who said it although he said something similar a few years earlier although by the time we went up it had all changed again.

A number of factors in why we were skint again. We overspent in the promotion season, couldn't pay the clubs we owed on transfers and ended with a transfer embargo. Then in the Premier League we were forced to pay back a few million to KPMG (I think) regarding the loans from Brendan Flood. Once down we probably overspent for the next two years, bringing in a number of players we really couldn't afford and by the time Sean Dyche took over as manager we were in financial meltdown again.

I'd say big lessons have now been learned.

[iluva64]

Tony lets not look on the gloomy side, we did buy the the training facilities back and Turf Moor, plus paid back Directors who had lent the club money....it's a business as you will know better than I.

Financially we are in a better position, we all know that too, possibly because of two years or should I now say three years in the Prem.

I wouldn't be surprised that in the last two or three years running costs/ mainly players wages will have risen considerably.

Lets just hope that the club can still be well run as it has in the past.

[SparkyClaret]

A bit of a "there but for the grace of God" situation. I understand that we and a lot of other clubs got screwed when ITV digital went under, the same must have happened at Preston and Blackpool. I know there's plenty on here who give thanks to the board (I'm one of them) and it's times like these I really appreciate what they've done to keep the club going.

[Sleeping Cat]

The "set up for ten years" comment, for me, was a comparison of the money we would receive to the turnover of the club. i.e. Turnover was about £10m a year prior to promotion. £100m for promotion (of which £60m was season 1, the other £40m was parachute payments) = 10 years worth of cashflow. The comment didn't factor in rising costs of players for prem, debt payable, ground improvements etc etc.

KRBFC does raise a concern I have long said, the longer you are in the prem, the more the costs rise, and the harder the transition will become if we were to get relegated.

When you consider that, TV income removed, our turnover would still only be about £15m pa, it highlights the need for our cautious approach, doing our due diligence on players prior to signing them & perhaps even (to bring in a topic doing the rounds on other threads at the moment), the reason we are bolstering the squad with experienced players rather than taking the risk on younger talent in the hope they develop (unlike in 2009 with Guererro, Easton, Eckersley, Edgar).

[ClaretTony]

unlike in 2009 with Guererro, Easton, Eckersley, Edgar

With only one of them ever starting a Premier League game for us - totally wasted money

[Blackrod]

Is is a minor miracle that we can compete as well as we can in the PL and still run a profitable business. I am sure we are the envy of many 'larger' clubs. For that we should be thankful and also that we run the club with some caution.

[theboydonegood]

They are not paying their bills - so shouldn't be signing any new players until they do

That goes for us as well if we ever get into that situation again

TBDG

[ExistentialWanderer]

And we are playing the game our own way, a sensible way. It's the likes of KRBFC who are almost demanding we go down the Bolton route. Yes, the expectation grows but the one thing our club cannot do is spend what we don't have. We have to be prepared for the rainy day when it comes.

It's not even worth contemplating. People who think we should bet the ranch need to take a long hard look and they don't have to look far!

[quoonbeatz]

When you consider that, TV income removed, our turnover would still only be about £15m pa, it highlights the need for our cautious approach, doing our due diligence on players prior to signing them & perhaps even (to bring in a topic doing the rounds on other threads at the moment), the reason we are bolstering the squad with experienced players rather than taking the risk on younger talent in the hope they develop (unlike in 2009 with Guererro, Easton, Eckersley, Edgar).

also why our player contracts are incentivised rather than paying out top whack wages, same with transfer fees we pay out.

we're doing things the right way for a club this size.

imagine if bournemouth's owner pulled the plug right now.

[KRBFC]

And we are playing the game our own way, a sensible way. It's the likes of KRBFC who are almost demanding we go down the Bolton route. Yes, the expectation grows but the one thing our club cannot do is spend what we don't have. We have to be prepared for the rainy day when it comes.

Nowt like digging me out for no reason Tony on what was a sensible thread. Now we go off topic as I stick up for myself against the claim you made. I am quite happy with how the club is run atm, there are a few improvements id like to see made but I definitely don't want us to start breaking our wage cap or blowing the entire balance on players. There is a balance between spending little and spending it all, we found that balance last season and Id like to see the same again. Its like people cant see the balance in anything and go off on a tangent taking things way out of context and going from one extreme to another.

[Sidney1st]

Why are you so annoyed with the signing of Bardsley then if you don't want the club breaking the bank for players?

Your over reactions is the reason you've been named.

[KRBFC]

Why are you so annoyed with the signing of Bardsley then if you don't want the club breaking the bank for players?

Your over reactions is the reason you've been named.

What part of there is a balance between spending little and alot did you not understand?

[Sidney1st]

What part of there is a balance between spending little and alot did you not understand?

You could apply the same to your complaining I suppose.

When you see a 21yr old nobody being sold for £7 million it should show you that we've got very good deals for Walters and Bardsley in comparison.

[KRBFC]

You could apply the same to your complaining I suppose.

When you see a 21yr old nobody being sold for £7 million it should show you that we've got very good deals for Walters and Bardsley in comparison.

So you didn't understand any of it then.

[Colburn_Claret]

Its the fans I feel sorry for, its very much a situation we could find ourselves further down the line. Gradually increasing the wage budget year on year in the PL to try and progress and then stuck in a mess once you're relegated. Its almost like the longer you spend in the PL the more fooked you will be once you get relegated out of it. How are clubs expected to cope once relegated after a long time in the top division? I don't know the entire situation at Bolton but imagine if we were in the PL for the next 10 years, we would probably be signing players on longer contracts and Id bet we would have a player on £100k p/w. Its natural attempt at progression. I think something has to change in football with the contracts to stop clubs getting stuck with these players, maximum 2 year deal? Would cut down transfer fees, the players wouldn't be happy but f**k the players the clubs should be protected first.

I believe the reason this won't affect Burnley, is we will carry on operating in the black. Boltons income wad massive, but their outgoings were bigger.
I think the board will always spend less than income for the next 5 years or so. That way we will always have a cushion to fall back on should we ever get relegated.
The last year in the prem we posted a profit of 40million, I would imagine last year will be as high. I wouldn't suggest they bank it all or we'd never compete, but the longer we stay up, the stronger our position will be

[KRBFC]

I believe the reason this won't affect Burnley, is we will carry on operating in the black. Boltons income wad massive, but their outgoings were bigger.
I think the board will always spend less than income for the next 5 years or so. That way we will always have a cushion to fall back on should we ever get relegated.
The last year in the prem we posted a profit of 40million, I would imagine last year will be as high. I wouldn't suggest they bank it all or we'd never compete, but the longer we stay up, the stronger our position will be

But how long were Bolton in the PL for? The longer you are there the harder it is once you're relegated. Imagine 10 years of PL income and 10 years of building a PL team, Bolton were in the UEFA cup too so they were building for Europe not relegation. Its almost like Everton getting relegated next season.

[kaptin1]

I think clubs should be required to hold a cash buffer on their balance sheets to cover at least half of their future contractual commitments. This would have the combined impact of making it much more expensive for clubs who want to dish out long term contracts on ridiculous wages and would also provide a degree of protection in the event of a sharp drop in revenue post relegation.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

So if I'm an average player and Bolton approach me to sign for 3 years at say £3000pw, is it smart to sign because I know they're bound to go into admin...am I going to get all the money and be a free agent? Or am I just not going to get paid.

[Belgianclaret]

With only one of them ever starting a Premier League game for us - totally wasted money

I suppose we can add Van Der Schaaf to that list. If I'm not mistaken he started the first game at Sheffield Wednesday and was then banished

[Sidney1st]

So you didn't understand any of it then.

But how long were Bolton in the PL for? The longer you are there the harder it is once you're relegated. Imagine 10 years of PL income and 10 years of building a PL team, Bolton were in the UEFA cup too so they were building for Europe not relegation. Its almost like Everton getting relegated next season.

I understand all of it.

I remember Bolton having some older and class players at their club.
I remember all of it.

Turned out the foundations of their adventures were reliant on their owner not getting bored and/or remaining in the PL.
I remember Gartside trying to put a stop to relegation from the PL.
I also remember him suggesting turning the championship into a PL 2.

As for them spending 10yrs in the PL with PL money, they were different TV deals and they were living well beyond their means back then, to the tune of about £200 million of debt.
If they were still in here they'd spend even more and still be living beyond their means.

Sunderland have gone down with debts of £130 million or so and a wage bill around £80 million....not even close to being sustainable.

Clubs and managers need to work harder to find players to fit within THEIR budget instead of paying out on silly wages.

Bamford isn't worth £40k a week in wages because he's done NOTHING to justify it.
Same with Fletcher who Boro are paying £7 million for, he's a nobody who's done nothing to justify that fee and he's hardly played.

Burnley are finding players to fit within a budget and that's the way to do it instead of relying on an owner to underwrite any losses.

You want a balance between a lot and a little when what you should really want is the right players at the right prices for the club.

Should we be signing players who know what's required to avoid relegation?
Yes at the right price.

Same with signing younger players like Taylor, good deal at the right price despite what some other people have said about it after we didn't sign a player who went to a club offering champions league football.
(I think you've been positive about this signing so you're excluded)

[Sidney1st]

So if I'm an average player and Bolton approach me to sign for 3 years at say £3000pw, is it smart to sign because I know they're bound to go into admin...am I going to get all the money and be a free agent? Or am I just not going to get paid.

This is the big question.

They can't pay loan fees either, they must be in a real financial mess to be dealt with this harshly.

[ClaretTony]

I suppose we can add Van Der Schaaf to that list. If I'm not mistaken he started the first game at Sheffield Wednesday and was then banished

The difference being he was signed when we were in the Championship

[KRBFC]

The difference being he was signed when we were in the Championship

Can we add Sordell, Reid and Juke to that list or isit only players signed by Coyle allowed?

[ClaretTony]

Can we add Sordell, Reid and Juke to that list or isit only players signed by Coyle allowed?

The ones mentioned were in response to the 2009 promotion.

[jedi_master]

Personally I think we should be very proud of how we operate, I certainly am.

People can say it's a small town attitude/lack of ambition etc, but it's really not. I am a highly ambitious person in my life and like to see my club approach situations with optimism and a degree of risk at times but you have to give such credit to the superb balancing act we have operated pretty much since Dyche arrived.

It's fantastic to see us sign players like Hendrick and Cork for £10m, Brady for £13m etc and know that due to the intelligent, methodical and sensible attitude of our directors that the deals are totally affordable and risk free (on a financial level). The reason being that we heavily incentivise our contracts with large signing on fees and performance bonuses, to keep the ovsrarching salary levels low. This means our lads are playing not just for the desire of being in the Premier League, but to arguably double their annual gross by keeping us up/scoring X amount of goals etc. It's such a clever and obvious system and whilst not every player we have probably attempted to sign with that on offer will have gone with it, at least we know we are getting 'the right sort' through the door.

I believe we will break our transfer record again this summer and we can do so knowing it is of little relevance to the balance sheet. Whoever that £15-20m footballer is may well be getting a lot of money spent on them fee wise, but you can rest assured knowing their weekly wage will be well within our boundaries and heavily backed up by bonuses which won't follow us if and when we get relegated.

We really are the model, modern small football club. The likes of Bournemouth as alluded to further up are literally on the precipice of armageddon as they get sucked further and further into the trap that KRBFC has mentioned. They are being utterly ludicrous with their money and it will take one poor season and a relegation (which will happen within the next 2 or 3 years) and/or the owner to get bored (which he will). You are looking at the next Pompey, although with the Cherries League 1/2 fanbase, it will arguably be even worse for them. Good luck to them shifting the likes of £15m Jordon Ibe on £50k a week.

[IanMcL]

4.5K is a lot.

I'd put my boots on for it!