Centre Back Speculation

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:16 pm

The calendar flips another page and the nerves register a flash of forlorn pain in response. Thoughts flicker and fade and the worried absence of any transfer noise relating to centre backs briefly flickers into focus (even though we are famously tight lipped about transfer dealings). Still we have quite a bit of time left and we can't ask for anyone better than Sean to sort us out with somebody to fill our Keane shaped hole.

If he doesn't we could always apply to the league for permission to place a giant for sale sign (with a sold banner) in his spot. It might block a couple of shots. I'm confident that Tarks can step up to the plate, but if the window closes and we are without another quality addition to provide him with one to one competition or as a solid backup then we will be dangerously exposed in that area.

I haven't read a lot of speculative - who could we go for - posts about suitable targets that we could consider/discuss so I'm going to throw out a few names. Hopefully it won't rapidly devolve into the usual "your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries" debacle, but I'm a lot less confident of that than I am of us getting a quality addition into the squad before the window shuts.

In order of preference some possible foreign candidates might be Bjorn Engels, Frederik Sorensen, Issa Diop, Christopher Jullien, Sven van Beek, Stefano Denswil and Terence Kongolo.

Some possible home candidates might be the perennially linked Craig Dawson or Kyle Bartley. I think Calum Chambers is currently beyond our transfer/wage budget. A statement of little to no intent, for a player that could do a respectable job for us would be Danny Batth, but I wouldn't want us to open the purse more than a smidgeon to bring him in.

My preference would be Bjorn Engels who stated that he we would be happy to secure a move to a mid table premier league club during the last transfer window, amidst speculation about a possible offer from Arsenal (which he didn't feel he was ready for at that time).

With the lots of potential game time, our reputation for improving defenders, Keane having mapped out a career progression route, Club Brugge seemingly open to his departure and Arsenal struggling to shift players and free up space in their wage budget to bring in players we might be able to make a case for ourselves. Granted he would no doubt command a sizeable transfer and his arrival would be seen as a huge coup, but if we are looking to progress we need to wish upon a star now and then.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:27 pm

Keane'#s replacement was signed 18 months ago. And if Burnley aren't making efforts to sign expensive centre halves, it means the club thinks Tarkowski is still the replacement, and it's Tarkowski's place on the bench that needs filling.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:28 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Has ablue been breeding?

I think we should consider playing Heaton up front as a defensive forward or a target man.

Blyclaret · Post by **Blyclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:32 pm

It looks like Dawson
I just hope WBA don't dick us around until last minute
We have been here before with them

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:35 pm

So the issue is can we get somebody in to fill Tarkowski previous
role and also be good enough to step in if injuries prevail.
Somebody good enough to compete but happy (as was Tarks)
to be on the bench for some while if all pans out fine with Tarks and Mee.

Or could Taylor also step in to a central defensive role?

We definitely need someone, me thinks but who it may be.
Possibly Dawson if WBA are willing to let go.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:50 pm

Kongolo is a left fullback, signed by Monaco to replace Mendy.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:52 pm

We won't go for a bargain abroad, we'll aim for an english clogger, balk at being quoted prices we can easily afford, and end up with nothing.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:58 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:We won't go for a bargain abroad, we'll aim for an english clogger, balk at being quoted prices we can easily afford, and end up with nothing.

English cloggers like we've signed in the past such as Mee, Keane and Tarkowski?

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:00 pm

KRBFC wrote:Kongolo is a left fullback, signed by Monaco to replace Mendy.

Nods,and we definitely aren't looking to replace Mee any time soon. Diop has pretty much stated he has no intentions of moving and Sorensen and Jullien have only recently signed contract extensions - so they could be scratched off the list as well.

My suggestion where more of a price and quality range starter point to fuel discussion. In hindsight I probably should have researched the recent changes to their transfer situations/contracts in a bit more depth.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:02 pm

We're certainly not looking for the next Keane, Mee or Tarkowski if we're looking at Craig Dawson, who is older than all three, will have no resell value or improvement left in him, and isn't better than them.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:08 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:We're certainly not looking for the next Keane, Mee or Tarkowski if we're looking at Craig Dawson, who is older than all three, will have no resell value or improvement left in him, and isn't better than them.

I really don't think resale value or improvement is what we're predominantly about in this transfer window. Appears more about bulking out the squad with experienced pros, time will judge if it was the right approach.
Wasn't Micheal Dawson briefly linked ? Would have thought he would be right up our alley.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:19 pm

I think the only thing Michael Dawson is the answer to is 'Turning 34 soon, which twice relegated central defender would make a defence containing Mee or Tarkowski even slower?'

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:20 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:We're certainly not looking for the next Keane, Mee or Tarkowski if we're looking at Craig Dawson, who is older than all three, will have no resell value or improvement left in him, and isn't better than them.

He's better than at least one, but probably two, of them.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:22 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:We're certainly not looking for the next Keane, Mee or Tarkowski if we're looking at Craig Dawson, who is older than all three, will have no resell value or improvement left in him, and isn't better than them.

Craig Dawson was 27 in May; Ben Mee will be 28 in September.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:24 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:Craig Dawson was 27 in May; Ben Mee will be 28 in September.

...So Ben Mee was around 21/22 when we signed him, Keane similar when we signed him.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:25 pm

I wish people would stop letting facts get in the way!

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:25 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:I wish people would stop letting facts get in the way!

Agreed, its much funnier reading the latest whines with wrong information

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:30 pm

We just need someone to dispute the assertion that Dawson would have no sell on value and we'll have the full house.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:37 pm

The production line grinds to a halt when you stop producing. Craig Dawson would be 31 at the end of a 4 year contract. With our traditional approach of flogging our players once they get within 12 months of the end of our contract, there's not a cat in hell's chance we'd get our money back on him.

It's time the recruitment network earned their corn and found us players which fit into our improve and sell model again.

It's a long time since exciting young players like Trippier, Austin, Ings, Keane, Mee etc signed. We're back to signing old blokes who can dish out a good kicking, like when Coyle brought in Varga and Unsworth.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:39 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:The production line grinds to a halt when you stop producing. Craig Dawson would be 31 at the end of a 4 year contract. With our traditional approach of flogging our players once they get within 12 months of the end of our contract, there's not a cat in hell's chance we'd get our money back on him.

It's time the recruitment network earned their corn and found us players which fit into our improve and sell model again.

It's a long time since exciting young players like Trippier, Austin, Ings, Keane, Mee etc signed. We're back to signing old blokes who can dish out a good kicking, like when Coyle brought in Varga and Unsworth.

Not a popular point of view, and only time will tell, but I certainly wouldn't disagree.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:56 pm

One name abroad we should look at is Boudebouz, supposedly moving to Real Betis for around £7M.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:42 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:The production line grinds to a halt when you stop producing. Craig Dawson would be 31 at the end of a 4 year contract. With our traditional approach of flogging our players once they get within 12 months of the end of our contract, there's not a cat in hell's chance we'd get our money back on him.

It's time the recruitment network earned their corn and found us players which fit into our improve and sell model again.

It's a long time since exciting young players like Trippier, Austin, Ings, Keane, Mee etc signed. We're back to signing old blokes who can dish out a good kicking, like when Coyle brought in Varga and Unsworth.

Personally I don't see a lot wrong with what we've done so far this summer. We're signing players with something to offer the first team now and that's what we need. It's nothing like the days of Varga and Unsworth. We were in a desperate financial position just trying to sign anyone! It's not even comparable to when we signed the likes of Reid and Taylor as they were never that likely to feature heavily. Walters and Cork will be in the team more than they're not this year in my opinion. Bardsley will be back-up for Lowton and Dyche clearly see's him as an upgrade on Darikwa because Darikwa never got close to the pitch in the PL!!

We're not a huge club so we can't carry a large squad of promising players. As good as the signings of Trippier, Mee, Ings, Austin and co. were, we signed them when we were in the Championship and they had the chance to play and progress. We picked them up cheap because they had no experience. If we bring in younger lads with limited first team experience today they'll just sit in the background all season. Charlie Taylor is the one exception to that this summer and I believe he'll turn out to be a cracking signing, but the others can hit the ground running in the PL and that's crucial for us.

Buying Cork at 28 is buying a player in their prime. What exactly is the problem with that? Does it matter if his resale value is less than we paid for him if he helps us retain our PL status for a couple more years? The same would be said if we bought Dawson. We'd be paying a premium but we'd be getting players at their absolute peak rather than bringing in younger lads and selling before they hit their prime. Just how good will Keane be when he hits 27/28 for example?!

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:45 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:The production line grinds to a halt when you stop producing. Craig Dawson would be 31 at the end of a 4 year contract. With our traditional approach of flogging our players once they get within 12 months of the end of our contract, there's not a cat in hell's chance we'd get our money back on him.

It's time the recruitment network earned their corn and found us players which fit into our improve and sell model again.

It's a long time since exciting young players like Trippier, Austin, Ings, Keane, Mee etc signed. We're back to signing old blokes who can dish out a good kicking, like when Coyle brought in Varga and Unsworth.

Same age as Shackell when we sold him for more than we paid .

I dont understand this obsession with resale value. Investment in the here and now is far more pressing - and wise!

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:46 pm

dsr wrote:Keane'#s replacement was signed 18 months ago. And if Burnley aren't making efforts to sign expensive centre halves, it means the club thinks Tarkowski is still the replacement, and it's Tarkowski's place on the bench that needs filling.

According to Claret Tony , Keanes replacement wasn't Tarkowski .

mohamed69 · Post by **mohamed69** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:48 pm

There's talk of Smalling...

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:11 pm

Surely if we don't recruit someone of a similar calibre to Keane then the squad strength of our central defence will be weaker than last season.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:13 pm

We need a cb we don't need Old Dawson or Smalling.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:19 pm

We need to be careful we don't end up with a team full of old men, only here for one last good contract. Not much youth and vibrancy around the squad as it stands currently.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:23 pm

Taylor 23
Tarkowski 24
Gray 26
Brady 25
Hendrick 25

We have just had 12 months of people going into meltdown that Defour isn't playing who will be 30 in April now suddenly anybody over 27 is of no interest to us. Roll on 1st September

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:27 pm

10 clean sheets last season. MK would have been a huge contributing factor to that.

I think the CH needs to be the marquee signing.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:47 pm

Newsflash. Tarkowski is Keanes replacement. Long and Anderson will be back up.

Defour will stay and with JBG fit again we won't be signing anyone in midfield.

Gray will stay and run down his contract so no new strikers.

3rd choice goalie is best we can hope for.

We will have plenty of money in the dry powder store.

No it's not fact just my humble opinion.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Think all the money went on bonuses.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:59 pm

Yes that's right every single penny of it.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:01 pm

We always have a lot of money to splash out before making any purchases it is a problem.

TopCat · Post by **TopCat** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:04 pm

"We need a cb we don't need Old Dawson or Smalling".
I am not sure if we are in for either, but anyone complaining about getting either of these two needs to think again.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:09 pm

You have to stay up if you buy those type of players otherwise they become an albatross around your neck financially.
The best method is to have young players vying for first team places, it's a tried and tested formula.
It's the young players Ings Trippier Mee Keane Gray who have made our recent sides dynamic, that is what youth provides, energy and new thinking.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:12 pm

ablueclaret wrote:You have to stay up if you buy those type of players otherwise they become an albatross around your neck financially.
The best method is to have young players vying for first team places, it's a tried and tested formula.
It's the young players Ings Trippier Mee Keane Gray who have made our recent sides dynamic, that is what youth provides, energy and new thinking.

We get it, ablue. You didn't rate Barton. Move on.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:16 pm

I never said that but two out of our four signings are over 30, now for me at least, that needs to be balanced by the recruitment of two 20-23 year olds with promise otherwise the squad starts looking top heavy.

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:17 pm

ablueclaret wrote:Think all the money went on bonuses.

and of course you will know exactly when the extra bonus payments kicked in because the bonus system last season was based upon the achievement of X amount of points (as I'm sure you are aware ) I mean to say it must be common knowledge down there in bumpkin land.

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:23 pm

We do need a centre back mind because as far as I'm concerned Ben Mee doesn't have an acceptable defensive partner at the moment .. Keane's departure is a major problem no doubt

Stockbrokerbelt · Post by **Stockbrokerbelt** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:23 pm

Sorry are that many people blinkered, Dyche has said he wants a CB & RW, so why the negativity? Spurs have not signed anyone yet, it will all happen in time when everyone starts releasing players when they make signings, do you honestly think that with Dyche wanting to buy & the chairman wanting to spend that we would go with Long & Anderson!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone did not get their suger puffs this morning!!!!

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:25 pm

You mean Pumkin land I'm sure Ralph.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:25 pm

ralph wrote:We do need a centre back mind because as far as I'm concerned Ben Mee doesn't have an acceptable defensive partner at the moment .. Keane's departure is a major problem no doubt

Keane's departure was always going to be a major problem - simply because he was that good and we won't be able to replace him with a player anything like the same quality.

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:27 pm

What we don't want to see is ABC's golden boy playing .
No pace ... the turning circle of an artic and a sloppy mindset will just cost us goals

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:28 pm

ablueclaret wrote:You mean Pumkin land I'm sure Ralph.

Answer the question when did your much feared bonus payments kick in and what did they cost ?

and yes bumpkin.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:29 pm

So negative Ralph, so negative.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:29 pm

95% of the Premier League don't have a CB as good as Keane

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:29 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Keane's departure was always going to be a major problem - simply because he was that good and we won't be able to replace him with a player anything like the same quality.

True

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:31 pm

ablueclaret wrote:So negative Ralph, so negative.

Not really ... I think we'll do okay again this season because we will sign a new defensive partner for Mee .. a new keeper and a right winger .. I just don't see any of the other existing CBs aside from Mee as being anywhere near good enough.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:32 pm

Well a bumpkin could not possibly answer that we must doff our hats and respect our better and wiser urban colleagues who have sharp wits, industrial intelligence and razor sharp minds, over to you Ralph to help us bumpkins out, hope Sidney doesn't feel offended.