It's all a little confusing...

[Danieljwaterhouse]

The message board has/is desending into two very clear camps: the bemoaners and the defenders.

Bemoaners: Why have we signed A, B and C? It's obvious this club is run by idiots...

Party chairperson: Ablueclaret

Defenders: Why don't you back the manager and the club by A,B and C. It's obvious you don't support this club, you're an idiot...

it's very much the 'british' way to have one party moaning at the other about their views and actions, it's democracy.

The question is which one are you going to sign up to?

[claretspice]

I think that, as with party politics, the vast majority of us belong in the middle ground to be honest.

[agreenwood]

Can we close this thread from one of ablueclaret's pseudonyms?

[LeadBelly]

"The Third Way".
The biggest posters may be at the 2 extremes but I suspect most are in between. (Same with the political discussions).

[jedi_master]

I am a floating voter, as with actual politics I vote based open my feelings on the manifesto put forward - not some pre-determined bullish loyalty to a colour.

The same applies here. Losing Gray concerns me and we need to replace him, I will sit in the middle till I see whether he (and Keane) are well replaced in this window.

[ClaretTony]

My name can be removed for a start and has been - my only moan is at a certain group of posters who just want to jump on the club at every opportunity.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

Which is a perfectly reasonable worry, but people are going to have an opinion. You have to accept that, not agree, not let it get you mad, just accept that that's that persons opinion. There's far too much 'bullying' of certain posters on BOTH sides.

[billyhamilton82]

"my only moan is at a certain group of posters who just want to jump on the club at every opportunity."

The chief protagonists aren't Burnley fans.

Saxoman gets a lot of stick but at least he nails his real colours to the mast.

[Goalposts]

I will moan if we have not covered at the end of the transfer window. More glass half full than empty.

People running this club are not stupid, if it can be done it will.

[SGr]

People running the club aren't stupid. But I think this club as a collective is often naïve in regard to transfers. Guess you can count me as a bemoaner either way

[dsr]

It's not so much to do with whether we agree with the manager / board of directors. All of us see Dyche or the Board making decisions that we wouldn't make. But a lot of people still haven't reached the stage of "I wouldn't have done that, but Sean Dyche knows more about it than me so I'lll trust him".

When Sean Dyche does enough for Burnley that the "bemoaners" realise that he does know what he's doing, then we will have a happy, harmonious message board.

[Wexford_Claret]

I'm very much anti-bemoaner but I rarely if ever bother to post a reply on the tedious 'how crap are we?' threads- so I can't technically be classed as a defender, either...

[Stockbrokerbelt]

To often individuals are only to happy to attack the club, moaning about a third choice keeper for one, how many can name the top 6 clubs third choice keeper? The Gray situation is a worry especially if he leaves without a replacement as pace is difficult to buy. Now what ever happens the idiots who think the manager or board are sat there twiddleing their thumbs not worried or doing anything about it need to take a real hard look at themseves, no doubt they are working away to bring in a replacement if true. We will need to spend big & i'm sure we are going to but big to us is loose change to most, lets be patient & trust the guys who know a lot more than us!

[Hedontplayforyou]

I'm not one of the "there's "x amount of time left in the window" people. As I'd prefer the squad assembled more or less, at the earliest possible chance. However you've got to understand that there is time left and that just because you haven't heard in the media that we are in talks for an exciting winger or young striker for example, doesn't mean that we aren't actively doing such a thing.

I'd say that zero of our signings thus far are exciting at all, but many people would be moaning if we signed a couple of players from abroad who turned out to be another Hennings or Vossen, but at the time of the signings they would be shouting from the roof staying that it's about time we signed a few like this

Rant over

[lucs86]

Can we turn this into a Brexit thread!?

I think Bemoaners voted Leave...

[boiledclaret]

Ideally, teams would sign players, develop them, then build a team around them, unfortunately the likes of us can't.

You can't prevent the likes of Keane from joining a bigger club and you can't expect a ready made replacement of a similar ilk.

It should also be noted that Gray stalled on his contract and in terms of body language has looked like he wanted away.

It's a p1sser but that's the breaks with a club like ours.

[joey13]

I will moan if we have not covered at the end of the transfer window. More glass half full than empty.

People running this club are not stupid, if it can be done it will.

Selling to a relegation rival clearly is stupid.

[dsr]

Selling to a relegation rival clearly is stupid.

They do have previous at this sort of deal. They sold Shackell to Derby in a very similar manner.

[KateR]

I am firmly on the clubs side and think they have done little wrong in last few years, like every business/entertainment outfit there will be things that could be better and those who do not like what they see. I like to see different comments and different opinions and then make my own mind up, however this is a life choice and am in for life, good and bad, ups and downs. Players managers directors will come and go but I will only go one way.

IF Gray goes for 18 million then I think it is fantastic business for the club, we have plenty waiting to take his place, I like everyone I think hopes for a better replacement but if not I will still be cheering them all on every match regardless.

Some people like to moan and look at life in a pessimistic way, not me, I love life, always smiling and optimistic, yes of course I have minor downs which tend to last a very short time where a glass of wine or two will cheer me up and look to the future with happiness.

[Dark Cloud]

I honestly think that MOST posters just call it as they see it and sometimes they're critical and sometimes they praise what they see as positive at the club, whether it's performances on the field, transfer dealings or the cost of a twix. A VERY small number MIGHT be in the business of being deliberately awkward by posting provocatively critical or wind up posts which I sometimes think are probably actually tongue in cheek and may be taken slightly too seriously by some others (maybe). I choose not to respond to those posts as I think it may be what the person wants. Thus like most others I CAN be critical when I see stuff going on I don't like (or maybe more likely, don't understand) at the club, but I will also give credit where it's due and occasionally eat my humble pie.
Take the Gray situation for example. We only THINK we know the facts, but what we think is that a very important player wants out. It's daft to force him to stay in those circumstances, so you look for the best deal. If we screwed Watford for 18 million it suddenly becomes good business, relegation rival or not. If it's nearer 10 million it's poor business in today's climate. If we sign a good replacement who WANTS to play for us then it's even better business. If we trouser the cash and go into September with what remains of our strikeforce, then I think we'll struggle and I would be critical. It's about seeing the balance in every situation and accepting all the time that A. We really don't know what's going on behind the scenes in any dealings the club have (not just transfers) and B. trusting those at the club to be doing their best and overall getting it right. And I do and have done for several years now.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

I honestly think that MOST posters just call it as they see it and sometimes they're critical and sometimes they praise what they see as positive at the club, whether it's performances on the field, transfer dealings or the cost of a twix. A VERY small number MIGHT be in the business of being deliberately awkward by posting provocatively critical or wind up posts which I sometimes think are probably actually tongue in cheek and may be taken slightly too seriously by some others (maybe). I choose not to respond to those posts as I think it may be what the person wants. Thus like most others I CAN be critical when I see stuff going on I don't like (or maybe more likely, don't understand) at the club, but I will also give credit where it's due and occasionally eat my humble pie.
Take the Gray situation for example. We only THINK we know the facts, but what we think is that a very important player wants out. It's daft to force him to stay in those circumstances, so you look for the best deal. If we screwed Watford for 18 million it suddenly becomes good business, relegation rival or not. If it's nearer 10 million it's poor business in today's climate. If we sign a good replacement who WANTS to play for us then it's even better business. If we trouser the cash and go into September with what remains of our strikeforce, then I think we'll struggle and I would be critical. It's about seeing the balance in every situation and accepting all the time that A. We really don't know what's going on behind the scenes in any dealings the club have (not just transfers) and B. trusting those at the club to be doing their best and overall getting it right. And I do and have done for several years now.

Great post!

[KRBFC]

My name hasn't been mentioned at all, quite remarkable.

[Dark Cloud]

My name hasn't been mentioned at all, quite remarkable.

Oh I think it has, in the subtext!

[KRBFC]

Oh I think it has, in the subtext!

Hehe
I think i'm in a camp of my own, I praise certain decisions and criticise others, it all depends on the way I see it. I certainly don't back Dyche and the board on everything and defend every decision they make like your CT's. Some would sit on here defending the board and manager if we lost every game for the next 5 years. Certain posters make it their job to defend the indefensible which its quite sad and fake, i'd rather hear fans' actual opinion on certain things instead of the defend for the sake of it tripe which is fake as hell.

[levraiclaret]

My name hasn't been mentioned at all, quite remarkable.

And disappointing n'est pas?

[Guller Bull]

I frickin hate politics, it is divisive and mindnumbingly tedious.

Good creative people on all sides of the the spectrum turn into small minded wazzocks and spout a monotribe of uninventive party spew.

I like weasels though!

[Dark Cloud]

Hehe
I think i'm in a camp of my own, I praise certain decisions and criticise others, it all depends on the way I see it. I certainly don't back Dyche and the board on everything and defend every decision they make like your CT's. Some would sit on here defending the board and manager if we lost every game for the next 5 years. Certain posters make it their job to defend the indefensible which its quite sad and fake, i'd rather hear fans' actual opinion on certain things instead of the defend for the sake of it tripe which is fake as hell.

I think that rather echoes my post above in that I believe that people should genuinely state what they think depending on how they see what's happening and doing that will mean being critical at times and praising/defending at others. I also believe MOST people on here do that, notwithstanding that we all see things differently and one man's disaster can be another man's rainbow. (See the 360 different angles a person can take on the Andre Gray transfer!)

[boiledclaret]

Some would sit on here defending the board and manager if we lost every game for the next 5 years.

Well we clearly haven't and no they wouldn't.

[Rowls]

Unlike having a chat down the pub, people ought to realise that this is a public forum.

If I am going to criticise a player, a member of the coaching staff or a board member I have to keep in mind that they may well read it. There's all sorts of factors to consider here - is it libellous? will it cause offence? could it damage a players confidence? will it be detrimental to Burnley FC? etc etc.

Sometimes, if a player has a stinker there's no point saying otherwise. You can't assume they're made of chocolate but you have to think they could read it.

That's why mindless negativity or even negativity is -by and large- a big no no for me. What does it achieve? It's a million miles from constructive criticism and barely a single member of "negative poster" group appears to have a grasp of what constitutes constructive criticism.

Because I hold back on the criticism (for the above reasons) people might put me down as a "happy clapper" but if they do then it's simply because they lack an appreciation of what I've chosen not to write in public.

[ablueclaret]

I've always had you down as a negative know it all Rowls.

[fidelcastro]

I've always had you down as a negative know it all Rowls.

And I've always had you down as a tit.

[dsr]

Hehe
I think i'm in a camp of my own, I praise certain decisions and criticise others, it all depends on the way I see it. I certainly don't back Dyche and the board on everything and defend every decision they make like your CT's. Some would sit on here defending the board and manager if we lost every game for the next 5 years. Certain posters make it their job to defend the indefensible which its quite sad and fake, i'd rather hear fans' actual opinion on certain things instead of the defend for the sake of it tripe which is fake as hell.

I think you're missing the point just a little. (Actually, you're missing it by a country mile.) I back Dyche because for the last nearly-five years we've done rather well. (You wouldn't agree, I know.) Dyche has proved to me that he knows what he's doing. Has he made mistakes? Of course. Has, on balance, he done a brilliant job? Of course. Has he given me reason to believe he's lost his touch and suddenly become incompetent? No.

So I support everything he does, until he gives me cause to stop supporting him. And I tend to go by results on the field, not what happens when there's no football being played. I will not start shouting the odds about the 2017-18 results until the 2017-18 results start happening - it's silly to do otherwise.

Remember Dyche's first close season? He made four signings, all free transfers - Scott Arfield, Tom Heaton, David Jones, Ryan Noble. Noble was a disaster - he couldn't get on the field, he couldn't even get on the bench, and they paid up his contract at Christmas to get him to go away. Does that mean that Dyche was a bad manager because he got it wrong? No, because what he got right more than made up for what he got wrong.

So there's two things you're doing wrong. One, you're taking it for granted that if you believe one thing and Dyche believes another, then it's you that's right. You don't have the managerial experience, and you don't have the day-to-day inside knowledge of the club, but you're certain that you're right and Dyche is wrong. And two, you're disassociating one decision from the whole grand scheme of things - if you want Dyche to stay, then you support him. (I realise that you don't want Dyche to stay.)

[fidelcastro]

What was the name of that guy he wanted instead of Dyche?

Jesus Jones, was it?

[Bin Ont Turf]

Unlike having a chat down the pub, people ought to realise that this is a public forum.

If I am going to criticise a player, a member of the coaching staff or a board member I have to keep in mind that they may well read it. There's all sorts of factors to consider here - is it libellous? will it cause offence? could it damage a players confidence? will it be detrimental to Burnley FC? etc etc.

Sometimes, if a player has a stinker there's no point saying otherwise. You can't assume they're made of chocolate but you have to think they could read it.

That's why mindless negativity or even negativity is -by and large- a big no no for me. What does it achieve? It's a million miles from constructive criticism and barely a single member of "negative poster" group appears to have a grasp of what constitutes constructive criticism.

Because I hold back on the criticism (for the above reasons) people might put me down as a "happy clapper" but if they do then it's simply because they lack an appreciation of what I've chosen not to write in public.

And it seems far too much hard work bullsh1tting most of the time.