Tarkowski

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:08 am

Seen a lot of unfair criticism aimed at Tarkowski for the goal today.

Didn't think there was too much he did wrong.
If the blame lies anywhere surely it's with Mee and Ward.

For the second time in two games Mee has been caught ball watching allowing the forward space and time to head the ball on. Then wards tackle on Robson Kanu was shocking.

I thought overall Tarkowski was great today. Distribution was fantastic.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:11 am

all 3 couldn't have done any worse on the goal if they tried. One of those days, no biggy on to the next one

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:14 am

It doesn't really matter about which way you look at it, we need a centre back in.

And we have done since Keane left.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:28 am

Amazingly we're worse off defensively without an England international level center back.

We're not going to buy Walker, Cahill, Rose or Stones so people better get used to it and allow Tarks or any signing (who too will not be an England international defender) time to bed in and improve.

Keane wasn't built in a day.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:29 am

Definitely need more bodies at the back.

A couple of injuries will really f**k that department up.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:35 am

CombatClaret wrote:Amazingly we're worse off defensively without an England international level center back.
We're not going to buy Walker, Cahill, Rose or Stones so people better get used to it and allow Tarks or any signing (who too will not be an England international defender) time to bed in and improve.

Keane wasn't built in a day.

We're a Premier League club and we're working with three centre backs.

One of them is experienced at this level, two not so.

We aren't going to replace Keane but we still need another one.

Hopefully we get one that is good enough to be seen to be able to get into a team that is in the Premier League.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:52 am

We definitely need another centre back in simply because 3 isn't enough. I like Tark, he will take time to find his feet its really just about scraping as many points as we can while the side gels and forms.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:54 am

I wonder who our 4th and 5th choice would be if needed at the moment, Cork? Taylor? Not sure if Bardsley has ever played central.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:02 am

Didn't exactly cover himself in glory on the goal, but then again neither did Mee and Ward before him. A poor goal to concede all round really.

Another centre half is absolutely needed though, everyone can see that and I sincerely hope we get one before the window closes.

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:15 am

KRBFC wrote:I wonder who our 4th and 5th choice would be if needed at the moment, Cork? Taylor? Not sure if Bardsley has ever played central.

Both Taylor and lowton played as CB's.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:33 am

CFS wrote:Both Taylor and lowton played as CB's.

Did Lowton also play CB in preseason? I know Taylor did.

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:38 am

KRBFC wrote:Did Lowton also play CB in preseason? I know Taylor did.

Don't think so. We need better than a makeshift centre half imo.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:44 am

I thought it was Mee's fault for the goal. Certainly looked that way from my view. Tarky has done ok so far and he'll be ok long term. It took Keane time to develop and it'll be the same for Tarky.

For all those who are quick to judge please remember what happened when Keane first came into the team I the PL. Was it Duff who got injured? Anyway, we suddenly started conceding goals from set pieces and it tended to be due to Keane's positioning. He was a young man and he got caught out a few times. It happens. Get over it! Get off Tarky's back, he's a great prospect.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:52 am

I don't like this Tarkowski bashing and it seems to me unfair. Furthermore just because we buy someone else in, do you think they won't be exposed either? Add to that we seem to be playing a more expansive game which will lead to defenders having less protection.

We are two games into this new season. He has been part of an incredible win and an unfortunate defeat plus has only a handful of first team and Premier League appearances.

I've only seen what's on TV - the whole Chelsea game and half an hour of yesterday - and to me he looks fine in those circumstances. He's been exposed in three or four situations, some against world class players. We saw at Chelsea and yesterday, and if you see other Premier League games, that even world class centre backs have shortcomings.

He looks a very good prospect to me.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:58 am

I have just watched the highlights again. Mee was absolutely shocking in respect to the goal as was Ward.

People keep slating Tarks but I'm starting to think that the weak link at the back is actually Mee.

People forget that Mee has only played CB next to arguably a world class CB

CaptJohn · Post by **CaptJohn** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:02 am

Tarks did OK today IMHO. It's a relatively new partnership and I think we have to give them some time to get their act together.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:02 am

Known for over 12 months Keane was leaving, no excuses that a replacement hasn't been brought in .

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:06 am

joey13 wrote:Known for over 12 months Keane was leaving, no excuses that a replacement hasn't been brought in .

Perhaps Dyche sees Tarkowski as his replacement?

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:10 am

not sure how you call ben mee shocking for the goal...he was under ball waiting for it to drop when the opponent had a run and jump at it....after that Ward put in a half hearted challenge then Tarks was poor in mistiming his challenge outside of the box....Tarks should have stayed in the game and directed the attacker away from the danger zone, giving Ward and Mee time to take up good defensive positions....basic stuff...disappointing goal.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:15 am

I agree we require another centre half - no brainer. But the criticism of Tarkowski is harsh. He made two mistakes yesterday - one which led to the goal and one just after that where he gave away a free kick. Apart from that he was very good and defended superbly. Also agree Mee and Ward were as much to blame for the goal...but they can't seem to do much wrong in some people's eyes.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:18 am

Just watched it again. Tarks was not to blame for the goal. Did his best to recover from Ward's error.

ashtonlongsider · Post by **ashtonlongsider** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:28 am

I think Tarks is a fine footballing CH and I think it's grossly unfair the amount of individual flak he appears to be taking. In saying that I don't like the chemistry of the back four as a unit. That may be down to losing it's key component, only time will tell.

colne-claret · Post by **colne-claret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:30 am

KRBFC wrote:I wonder who our 4th and 5th choice would be if needed at the moment, Cork? Taylor? Not sure if Bardsley has ever played central.

I think Bardsley has played centre half a few times for Stoke.

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:31 am

disagree hatfield...he commited tooiearly to his challenge outside the box...it wasnt an all or nothing situation...he simply had to get between the striker and the goal and slow him up....giving Mee and Ward time to get behind the ball..it was a poor decision by tarks....I defended him against Chelsea but not in this instance....a poor mental decision.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:36 am

Easy to blame Tarkowski as he seems to be the new whipping boy. I think he was left in a difficult situation after Mee failed to win the header and then Ward failed to clear. I do think there's some argument to be had that Tarkowski should have done better but he shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place. Just a poor defensive error all round really.

Rammy1968 · Post by **Rammy1968** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:36 am

I would agree with Happyclaret poor defending all round we live and learn on to the next game UTC

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:37 am

yes, Ward made an error as well but that doesnt mean you have to make an all or nothing challenge....smart, top class defenders are often not the quickest players but just read the game well....Tarks read this one poorly....it happens in his position...still learning I think...if he learns from this then thats progress...if he does the same again that would be a worry......Keane last season got too tight to Lukaku and cost us a goal....guaranteed he learned from that.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:37 am

It was Wards fault for the goal but three players around or in position with Kanu should never been alowed to get through on goal in that way at this level it had Championship mistake all over it
And first half in the first few minutes Lawton also nearly cost us with a school boy error
So not just one to blame all our back four should take a wrapping today
Not like us at all we will learn from it no worries

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:42 am

Tarks had a decent game - goal was no more his fault than Ward or Mee....I think on this one they take collective responsibility as between 3 players they should have not let him do what he did.

Tarks defended well otherwise - he tried a few too many of the big cross field balls to the left for me as a number were never going to reach. His first couple were good but he needs to change it up a bit as West Brom either sussed it out or the pass was short / not on.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:54 am

Thought Tarkowski had a good game yesterday.On the ratings thread he was marked down to a 5 by many and even a 4.Think he is being made a scapegoat by many because he is not Keane.He was in put a position with the goal that he could possibly have brought down Kanu and been sent off or fouled him in the box and given a penalty away.This was caused by Mee not going for and winning the first ball and then Ward making a poor challenge on Kanu.Think he has been hung out to dry by some.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:59 am

Jimscho wrote:Thought Tarkowski had a good game yesterday.On the ratings thread he was marked down to a 5 by many and even a 4.Think he is being made a scapegoat by many because he is not Keane.He was in put a position with the goal that he could possibly have brought down Kanu and been sent off or fouled him in the box and given a penalty away.This was caused by Mee not going for and winning the first ball and then Ward making a poor challenge on Kanu.Think he has been hung out to dry by some.

Agreed - some of the player ratings for Tarkowski are hilarious. He had a solid game bar one difficult moment caused by Mee failing to win the header and Ward failing to clear.

Rammy1968 · Post by **Rammy1968** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:59 am

Mee could never have won the header, Ward was weak in his challenge and Tarks dived in and gave the Kanu a run at goal. If Tarks would of stood up and held Kanu off he could of forced him wide and not let him get a shot off. This division is all about small margins at both ends of the park. It's a cruel game

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:00 am

unfortunately its the same old story
a player gets flak...often unjustified then other posters back him up and he can then do no wrong in their eyes.....for me I dont blame ben mee in the goal....but Ward perhaps could have done better then once Tarks was last man he has to make a diagonal run alongside the scorer....losing position with that challenge was not good defending in the circumstances....irrespective of how good a game he had up to that point.

Phoenixknight · Post by **Phoenixknight** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:10 am

Really felt like we dropped 1 point yesterday not 3.
Could have played for another hour and not scored.....just one of them days.
Ward is being asked to push on down the wings so when the ball is lost high up the field he is bound to get caught out here and there.
What Keene is good at is anticipating that and in time talks will be as well.
Thought cork and defour were very good good with distribution yesterday which is a massive positive. However play in the last third was sloppy.
Just my thoughts.
Plenty to be positive about against a team that are notoriously hard to play against.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:11 am

I doubt very much that players read threads on here. If you do James, I think you are a very good player and take no notice of people that are blamng you for not being as good as Keane yet and who don't know much about football.

WBA scored the type of goal we won't all season unless we replace Gray with someone that can get beyond defences. It took one home game to show what we ae missing without Gray.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:14 am

Rammy1968 wrote:Mee could never have won the header, Ward was weak in his challenge and Tarks dived in and gave the Kanu a run at goal. If Tarks would of stood up and held Kanu off he could of forced him wide and not let him get a shot off. This division is all about small margins at both ends of the park. It's a cruel game

Tarks did stand up.At no point did he go to ground.Only way he could have stopped Kanu was by fouling him in my opinion,because when Ward made the poor challenge it gave Kanu the momentum to surge forward.Still think Mee could have challenged for the ball.Its all about opinions.Tarks being held out to dry by many when he overall had a good game.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:31 am

I thought Tawkowski had a less than average game yesterday. But I believe he will eventually be a very good central defender but it will take a few years at this level to get there. Mee and Keane needed this experience. I believe that Burnley will bring in another centre back and that Tawkowski will go back to third choice.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:40 am

We lost yesterday because we didn't put any of our many chances away. Tarkowski looked solid and confident for the vast majority of the game and looks at least as good as Keane did after this many games of his Premier League career. He looks a threat in the opposition box too.

Whether he'll follow the same upward trajectory remains to be seen but come on, lets give him a chance.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:46 am

Jimscho wrote:Tarks did stand up.At no point did he go to ground.Only way he could have stopped Kanu was by fouling him in my opinion,because when Ward made the poor challenge it gave Kanu the momentum to surge forward.Still think Mee could have challenged for the ball.Its all about opinions.Tarks being held out to dry by many when he overall had a good game.

He tried to make a tackle he couldn't win, it was a poor decision which left Kanu with more time than he should have had.
He should have looked to force him wide.

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:47 am

Still early days, I hope he can step up, thing is you don't get much time in the prem, but certainly so far doesn't appear to be good enough, he's general play looks good but as soon as he's under real pressure he seems to be found wanting, wasn't good away at Bournemouth at the end of last season, at fault against Chelsea and again yesterday, needs to get to grips utc

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:51 am

He's won just about every defensive header that's come his way so far.
I'll stick my neck out here and suggest that Heaton gives Robson Kanu a bit too much to aim at.
Blame is a funny thing, these things happen in football. We still should have rescued a point.

Claret Kitch · Post by **Claret Kitch** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:59 am

Can I remind most posters on here that Tark has started about half a dozen league games for us. Give a bloody chance FFS!

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:08 am

Tarkowski has ability and did ok. However, he thinks he can launch these crossfield 40-50 yarders and when one comes off, believes he is ace. I think he should count his actual success rate and stop doing it, unless a sure bet, which some are.

He not only fails with the pass but also throws our whole team off balance and shape, when it fails.

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:14 am

Problem is while you can afford to give a bit more time in the championship, you just can't allow that time in the premier league, we're all aware how difficult it is to get out of that bottom 3 once you drop in it, he looks very assured in he's general play and has all the attributes of a good footballer, hope he can step up but my point is, time is against him. However still think we need another ch in whichever way the cat jumps.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:40 pm

The goal looked to me to be a combination of factors. Ward is the most obvious culprit, because having just about got to the ball first, Ward ought to have been launching it half way down Harry Potts way. Heaton looked to me to make it rather too easy for Robson Kanu to beat him at his near post and arguably was a bit slow off his line.

Could Mee have won the initial header? possibly, but you can't win them all and he isn't as dominant as Keane or Tarkowski. Could Tarkowski have been across quicker to cover? Possibly, and I'm sure Michael Keane would have done, but seemed to me that we were unusually short manned at the back - Lowton was pushed up a bit despite not being committed to an attack, so Tarks probably had to cover the right channel more than he might normally. We ended up unsually exposed. By the time he got across I'm not sure there was much he can do which wouldn't have made the most likely outcome a sending off or penalty.

I suppose the answer is that if Mee rather than Tarkowski is attacking the header, we have to be more aware of the risk of Mee getting beaten in the air and the rest of the back 4 need to be a bit better placed to deal with the any danger that results. But you live and learn. Certainly seems a bit harsh to blame Tarks.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:57 pm

Not excusing that we should have dealt much better with their goal, but had Atkinson not played a very poor advantage, the goal wouldn't have happened.

We may have had the ball too long for it to be pulled back for the free kick - however the 'advantage' given was from recollection, our player facing our goal with their defenders / midfielders around him.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:27 pm

Mee a weak link - absolute nonsense. He's been outstanding for us since moving to CB.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:36 pm

tarks is very good at pushing out from the back and delivering some great passes upfield, keane rarely did that. Very difficult to blame him for the goal yesterday. He does look to a bit slow to react to danger at times, but im sure he will improve that side of his game.I like him.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:41 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:....... I'm starting to think that the weak link at the back is actually Mee.

brilliant.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:59 pm

Spijed wrote:Perhaps Dyche sees Tarkowski as his replacement?

I hope not